Oh Dear God

[J@3]

only that they don't close threads with sarcastic remarks like "Nice try " and instead give an actual reason - it wouldn't require too much effort.

I think I pretty much made my living here off sarcastic replies and no real reason for anything. I guess it goes back to the respect thing, not to bignote myself or anything gay but I guess I could get away with that kind of thing while the new guys are being advised against it and such.

[BigKaboom2]

I think most of your thread closings spoke for themselves, unlike some in the list I compiled. I may be wrong, but I don't recall ever taking issue with you on one of those.

[cyanide]

This is probably my favorite one, since Cy first scolded the original poster, then locked his perfectly harmless thread.

If you noticed, that thread just became a spam thread, with the same points given to the original poster over and over. It might be "harmless" but spamming isn't encouraged.

[bigh0rt]

My reply to some of Matthew's points would be as followed:

I just can't understand how a place can dissovle so quickly... I think back to the old forums (and no this isnt a "well back in my day point") and even though there was spam, there was flaming, it was fair. There wasn't the inconsistancies that we see today. It's almost like its become upside down, whats left is right, up is down, coolmac is smart, dweaver is cool, sit is a winner. These are opposites that should never be confused with each other.

I feel I've been as fair as I can possibly be thus far in my term as a moderator. While nobody's perfect, I certainly make every effort to be fair, and have tried even moreso since its been called into question.

For starters, the new moderating team has to be re-evaluated in my opinion. The only guy I would keep is Indy, and thats becuase he seems to not be serving his own ego when he does his job. The new guys, cyanide, bighort, ty land, you say its inexperience or whatever, and if thats the case, then are you admitting that you really shouldn't be in a leadership role here at nlsc? Everyone knows it takes time to adjust to a new position, hell it took the Greatest Mod of all time (Jae) a few weeks before he understood what it took and he took it to a new level.

I respectfully disagree. I think the new moderators are all classy, respectible members of the forum who, a few months from now if not sooner, people will warm up to. I also feel that because there's so many new moderators, people have been 'testing the waters' so to speak, to see exactly what they can and cannot get away with. With yourself and Jae, they knew already, but that was due to time served. Again, with time, I imagine a similar thing will happen as people become more familiar with our methods of moderation. I am in no way saying that any member of the moderation team should not be in a leadership position at NLSC, though that question was likely rhetorical.

But what made Jae great? It was his passion (or lack of life ) to enforce the rules whilst using common sense. He became a leader and shaped these forums into somthing special becuase he never put himself or his ego infront of a decision he made, it was always the community first. I see a little bit of that in Indy, but at the same time Indy is still his own man. I'm not saying Indy is good becuase he is a little like Jae in that regard, I'm saying he's the best of the bunch so far becuase he actually interprets the rules with common sense.

I haven't noticed any of the new moderators placing their ego in front of their decisions regarding moderation of the forums. Maybe it's happened and I've just missed it - I don't know. It just seems like a rather large assumption to think that of four separate people who all happen to share the same position. You have to realize that none of us are Jae, and I won't speak on behalf of the other moderators; but I'm not trying to be. I'm just being me, doing what I feel is right, and talking to the other moderators & Andrew about things I'm unsure of. Beyond that, I'm interpreting the rules in the clearest possible way I can. Since the daily pot shots started, I've actually taken a few looks over them again to make sure I'm enforcing the way I feel they are intended to be, and I've yet to change my opinions. If that makes me wrong, so be it.

If you care about the site, you will take shit for it. It's just the nature of it. And just remember, if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to stay. It's hard, there are expectations on you, and at times you will be unpopular. But that's what you volunteered for, not to roam around the forums with a title and the ability to move posts.

I couldn't agree more. In fact, in the short while I've been a moderator, I've experienced degrees of everything mentioned already, and while it was a bit of a change at first from not being a moderator, I'm now at peace with it all, and am really starting to enjoy doing what I feel is right for the forums, regardless of whether it's the popular thing to do or not.

This is what the problem was with Tales. Thats what the problem was with Nigel (cha ching ). As Jackal has said, respect is to be earnt, not expected.

If I earn respect, I earn it. If not, I don't. I feel if I do what I feel is for the best of the forum and remain consistant in my actions, anything beyond that is out of my hands. Maybe some people will respect me for it, maybe others won't. My main focus as a moderator is to the forums as a whole -- I think respect just comes with the territory of doing the right thing, as well as longevity -- something many of us don't have as a notch in our belt at this point. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can never see myself doing anything with the primary intention of gaining respect; I feel that that's something that comes later as a result of proper and just moderating.

I think I've spoken enough. If you have something to say, feel free to disagree or throw an idea or two into how to improve things.

Thank you for starting this topic. It's been much more productive than reading daily cheap shots by others, and I feel that there will be some changes made; be they small or large. If anything, at least we'll have explored the topic and given people a forum to let themselves be heard on.

It's time everyone stepped up.

[bigh0rt]

only that they don't close threads with sarcastic remarks like "Nice try " and instead give an actual reason - it wouldn't require too much effort.

I think I pretty much made my living here off sarcastic replies and no real reason for anything. I guess it goes back to the respect thing, not to bignote myself or anything gay but I guess I could get away with that kind of thing while the new guys are being advised against it and such.

This is something I've noticed, as well. A lot of people are putting the new moderators in the position where they have no choice but to fail. I'm not sure if it's just wanting to have controversy or something to talk about or whatever - but it certainly exists. Interesting that if Jae had done precisely what I did in that thread, no one would've batted an eye. Now you can get into the whole "... but it's Jae" logistics of it; but I'm not all that interested in going there. Jae is talked about in hushed tones around here, and to a degree rightfully so. I think he's a great forum member, and was pretty excited when he was the one who approached me about being a moderator -- so much so that he and I exchanged a few PMs regarding policy and things of that nature (due to my wanting to learn) before I was even appointed. So, for people who are all about giving a fair shake to everybody and consistency, there doesn't seem to be much going the other way.

The bottom line is, I'm not Jae. Neither is anyone else. I know I myself am not trying to be, at all. I'm being me. I'll continue to be me. People will either like it, be indifferent, or hate it -- nothing more I can do about that. I was asked to be a moderator as myself, so as a moderator I'm going to continue to be myself, personality wise. If people don't like it, I'm fine with that. I'll continue to moderate by doing what I feel is the right thing, until I decide I've had enough, or Andrew decides I'm no longer fit for the position.

Man, I'm pretty much enjoying this at this point. Pretty interesting thoughts flying around from everywhere.

[Nick]

I get the feeling the whole moderator drama is the kinda thing that time will fix. I'm not taking away from the issues at hand. But can you imagine 6 months from now of these guys being mods? I definetly think most of them would earn atleast my respect. I know with how bigh0rt handles himself, he's earning mine. Ty-Land somewhat too. I'd to see Indy more expressive on the issue, even though he already has my respect.

This is what the problem was with Tales. Thats what the problem was with Nigel (cha ching ). As Jackal has said, respect is to be earnt, not expected

*cough*Yohance*cough*

The situation has been way too dramatised and blown out of proportion. But a lot of you should look at this as the oppurtunity to show how you handle situations like these. And prove yourself. That's why i stirred up Ty-Land and Bigh0rt a bit. To see how they'd handle me questioning them. And to my suprise/delight Ty-land nailed the situation. Bigh0rt nailed a different situation. continue like this and people will come around and start to show support.

It's what happened with Jae. When he started he had to go through everybody questioning why the fuck he was appointed moderator. People were claiming he's too rude and sarcastic (And they were probably right lol, but turns out it took nothing away from his ability to moderate). He's been around since late 90s or whatever, but people thought he joined in 2004 so he had to earn his respect again. And he did that and thensome. He was pretty much the best thing that happened to NLSC in recent times.

[J@3]

I think this thread is the best thing that can happen to you guys if you choose to use it properly. Having this open criticism and exchange of thoughts really either puts you in your place or tells you what you're doing wrong etc. I would suggest all of the new mods read this thread, you might not pick up a great deal from it but you'll start to get the picture that this really is a community and your position is an important one within that community. The younger posters want someone to look upto and the older posters want someone to respect essentially and that's something you'll only build up over time.

[el badman]

If this (intimidating) thread accepts the opinion of a non-mod, non-ex-mod community member, I just wanted to bring my 2 cents to this...
Although I've been checking this site for quite a while, I'm not familiar with most of the notorious dramas and issues mentioned in this thread, so I can only refer to NLSC's most recent developments.
If this was a company and I wanted to appraise the customer service quality, in this case how moderators deal with any type of questions from any type of member, I'd have to say that, in my opinion, actual service is consistently and fairly provided by the mods, given the forum rules and each specific situation. I've been on many other game forums that feel more like complete anarchy, with no apparent rules, guidelines or help from the mods.
In this forum, you guys regularly have to deal with senseless threads, spams, random flaming and disregard for the rules, but I personally feel that all of these are properly dealt with, in their vast majority, and that there is no arrogance in Donatello's, bighOrt's, Ty-Land's or Cyanide's posts.
Most of the threads that are being locked are directly related to forum rules being broken (which must have happened even more than usual this year because of Live 07's issues, thus making some of you think that this has become a lock-and-ban fest). There's not much to do regarding that, except reminding everyone of the rules in all the threads that go wrong, and I think this has been done pretty well, if sometimes a bit harshly. There's always room for personal interpretation, as discussed by BigKaboom and bighOrt, but ultimately rules are rules and they're being enforced.
As far as "earning respect" is concerned, I think that's a bit excessive, I'm not sure this should be blown out of proportion. It's just an online forum after all, not a family reunion of the Sopranos...
Just wanted to share some thoughts, as a neutral party. I've enjoyed this community's productivity for many years, and this forum has encouraged me to try making patches of my own. I personally feel that this site's development is handled responsibly, by individuals who all have a common passion.

[J@3]

Good post, you shouldn't be intimidated, everyone's allowed to share their views on this.

[eisfeld]

Well after reading through the posts I want to share my 2 cents also.
BigKaboom brought up a quite discussable issue. For the common poster it is often not clear why a thread was locked and there should be a short explanation here. But as bigh0rt stated, we do not know what was going on before via PM so therefore we are not able to judge the decisions objectively.

I also have to agree with el badman. It is very nice to see that the mods treat people respectfully regardless of post count or joined date. Even newbies who somehow follow the rules and make slight mistakes are very welcome and they have been given the chance to learn the rules. That's something rather uncommon and I know that first-hand from my mod time in the forums of a german MMORPG magazine. Therefore, thumbs up for the effort the mods put into this.

I also want to comment on the recent developments that took place here. I have to admint I did not follow every discussion here in the NLSC issues and I don't have the background info the veterans here have. But, recentlyI noticed especially in the Dynasty Issues and Stories forum that the amount of spam has accumulated dramatically. And the amount of triple postings has risen too. In the stories section it can't be avoided everytime as it is necessary sometimes but often the following scheme is used:

1st post: Introduction to the dynasty
2nd post: (only a couple of minutes later) What do ya all think 'bout this?
3rd post: (a couple of hours later, without any reply to the dynasty so far) next post by the creator

And this goes on and on... I don't wonder anymore why some people can get over 20 posts a day as the edit button is never used. But that's all I can complain about.

Well, I do have positive things to say too. I normaly do not praise people here directly, but I have to admit that Indy does a very very good job. I like that he sticks with his decisions not only mod-wise also as a regular posters (although he corrected me several times ). And yes, new mods were introduced but it has been only a couple of weeks. I have not discovered any big mistakes. Regardless of being member for a long time, being a mod is a new thing someone has to get accustomed to. So my personal opinion is: That's a learning process for everyone, and as they all are respected and decent posters in this forum I am quite sure they do a good job now and will do a great job in the future.

[Dramacydal]

Why would either of them be banned for these posts? Nothing in the forum rules suggest that this would ever happen.

Believe it or not I got banned for this here yesterday. When I came back to post a reply it said I was banned.

Now all I want to know is which little girl with too much "power" around here caught feelings and decided to ban me? And also who decided to un-ban me after all?

I've been here for more than three years and I never caused too much trouble, I don't spam and I've never been warned by any mod. To ban me over something like this, even if it was just for a day or so is a bitch move.

[[Q]]

This is the internet, you can do whatever you want to do (as long as the mods and admins let you) so there's absolutely no need to justify your actions. I'm not a mod so I can't do anything about it except complain. You should be man enough to be able to live with that.

well, since you aren't a mod, I'll give you some healthy alternatives... what you could've done was send a PM to one of the moderators with your concerns. From there a mod would have spoken to Flite about it and it would be done nice and easy. you could've even PMed Flite about it and spoken to him directly. but your choice to air out the dirty laundry (and taking a thread completely off-topic) wasn't the greatest. but the final straw for me was when you started taking on all that questioned you...

Now all I want to know is which little girl with too much "power" around here caught feelings and decided to ban me? And also who decided to un-ban me after all?

yeah go ahead and try to make it out like the new mods are all on a huge ego/power trip... how original. I never heard that one before...

I've been here for more than three years and I never caused too much trouble, I don't spam and I've never been warned by any mod.

I do realize you've been here a while and I know you don't spam and cause trouble like you say, but what what made you decide to start?
if you really wanna know, it was me that decided to give you a temporary ban.
in my opinion, it was a bitch move on your part the way you started the whole argument by calling out Flite in this thread.
you can state your opinion. that's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. He responded with his side of the story.
I thought it was a healthy discussion (despite it being waay off topic)
I was okay with that.
Those two facts that you've been here a while and you haven't caused much trouble is why I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and a temporary ban of about 12 hours to let you cool off.

you then presented a few examples of what you were talking about then go on this long rant about spam and how it annoys you and what not... yeah it just turned into one big spam-fest between you and Flite... how ironic that you would start something that turned into what you were complaining about... you pretty much turned into a nit-picky woman complaining about everything... and also, did you really need to call out Nick in the process too? when you started attacking other posters, that's where you crossed the line.

[Nick]

:lol: Qballer, that's ridiculous...

[Dramacydal]

^Couldn't agree more on that.

You can't be serious. Banning me over something like this is absolutely moronic.

Apart from that, I didn't call out Nick in the process, it was vice versa, I didn't start the insulting. To get things right, Nick, I'm definetely not putting the blame on you because I would have done the same if I saw somebody attacking someone else and I thought it was for no reason (so I'm cool with what you did, no hatred or anything from my side). I'm trying to point out that Qballer needs to get his facts straight before he does something like that again.

Those two facts that you've been here a while and you haven't caused much trouble is why I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and a temporary ban of about 12 hours to let you cool off.

Should I be grateful for that? I wonder...

Seriously, Qballer, I pretty much respected you ever since I started posting here but damn, as you can probably imagine that respect is gone.

[Jackal]

And Jackal, i think your points would come accross a lot better if they weren't interlaced with personal attacks. What happened to Jackal, the new man?

It's that hard differentiating between points and personal attacks? Okie dokie Mr. Nick sir. You're advising me not to make personal attacks, and yourself take a jab at Yohance in a later post. Heed your own fucking advice.

Oh, nice Jackal was just Don, he dead. Niceness doesn't get you far enough, not in today's world.

[Nick]

And Jackal, i think your points would come accross a lot better if they weren't interlaced with personal attacks. What happened to Jackal, the new man?

It's that hard differentiating between points and personal attacks? Okie dokie Mr. Nick sir. You're advising me not to make personal attacks, and yourself take a jab at Yohance in a later post. Heed your own fucking advice.

Oh, nice Jackal was just Don, he dead. Niceness doesn't get you far enough, not in today's world.

Lol fucking relax would ya. You can't stand being disrespected or condecended the slightest can you. It's hilarious.

Hey jackal, fuck you.

Watch him explooooode!

[BigKaboom2]

:lol: Qballer, that's ridiculous...

I'd have to agree...where in the moderator rules is this justified? Seems a little pointless. bigh0rt already used the ban-threat method once, instead of giving a simple warning. I don't see why you'd rather ban him than explain what you take issue with in his posts. Did Flite_23 get banned too?

[Jackal]

:lol: Disrespected? If one had respect in the first place, then you would get mad if you were disrespected.

I basically just told you to fuck off. How's that exploding?

[BIG GREEN]

This is what the problem was with Tales. Thats what the problem was with Nigel (cha ching ). As Jackal has said, respect is to be earnt, not expected

*cough*Yohance*cough*

.

Yea..i knew you had a problem with me....and if you don't think i've done anything to get respect around here thats fine. I'll agree that i havent been around here much recently cause of real life...but in the past i've done my share. With that said, i dont give a fuck really if i'm "respected" around here anymore or not..cause i'm seriously considering retiring. I have better things to do with my life than to argue forum politics with people like you. I do my fucking best when i can...and i dont sit behind the pc all day criticising people like some of you fuckers. I come on the forum when i can...contribute when i can and mod when i can. Sometimes i come on here...lock a topic, move a thread or some shit i dont make a comment cause of time constraints. Those who don't like me or me "thinking i deserve respect" can kiss my mother fucking black ass. No one has to respect me....i'm a relic of better days at the NLSC....

[Mentally Hilarious]

This is what the problem was with Tales. Thats what the problem was with Nigel (cha ching ). As Jackal has said, respect is to be earnt, not expected

*cough*Yohance*cough*

.

Yea..i knew you had a problem with me....and if you don't think i've done anything to get respect around here thats fine. I'll agree that i havent been around here much recently cause of real life...but in the past i've done my share. With that said, i dont give a fuck really if i'm "respected" around here anymore or not..cause i'm seriously considering retiring. I have better things to do with my life than to argue forum politics with people like you. I do my fucking best when i can...and i dont sit behind the pc all day criticising people like some of you fuckers. I come on the forum when i can...contribute when i can and mod when i can. Sometimes i come on here...lock a topic, move a thread or some shit i dont make a comment cause of time constraints. Those who don't like me or me "thinking i deserve respect" can kiss my mother fucking black ass. No one has to respect me....i'm a relic of better days at the NLSC....

If your vagina hurts, there's always Vagisil.

Seriously though, take it as it is. You do a decent job at modding, and all that. Also - you've been around for along time. Which seems to matter a lot to some people. But that rant was quite unjustified.

[Nick]

This is what the problem was with Tales. Thats what the problem was with Nigel (cha ching ). As Jackal has said, respect is to be earnt, not expected

*cough*Yohance*cough*

.

Yea..i knew you had a problem with me....and if you don't think i've done anything to get respect around here thats fine. I'll agree that i havent been around here much recently cause of real life...but in the past i've done my share. With that said, i dont give a fuck really if i'm "respected" around here anymore or not..cause i'm seriously considering retiring. I have better things to do with my life than to argue forum politics with people like you. I do my fucking best when i can...and i dont sit behind the pc all day criticising people like some of you fuckers. I come on the forum when i can...contribute when i can and mod when i can. Sometimes i come on here...lock a topic, move a thread or some shit i dont make a comment cause of time constraints. Those who don't like me or me "thinking i deserve respect" can kiss my mother fucking black ass. No one has to respect me....i'm a relic of better days at the NLSC....

It's not that i have a problem with you personally, just the way you handle yourself these days. It seems like you're out of the loop, and you try to remind everyone of your longevity instead actually taking action and doing something about it. You have more important shit going in real life and that's fine, but don't we all? I mean, i know i do, i know Jae does, etc.

I guess i'll be "kissing your mother fucking black ass" because i DO think you expect respect and i don't like it. I acknowledge that you do contribute. It's not like you do nothing. You're just not an active member anymore. And what you've done in the past is all well and good, but honestly i don't think the community would even feel it if you retired.

You're college hoops star gone senile.

[BIG GREEN]

Bring it on mother fucker...i agree that i'm a grant hill type of guy. However, I'm definitly not senile...cause i acknowledge jae and matt as being two of the best this community has ever seen..cause they had the patience and tolerance to put up with real life and the bullshit people throw at them over years on these forums; I on the other hand ..don't. Especially with people like you who spout bullshit for no good reason.

I'd like you to quote me just one time recently or for this year that i've made a post stating that i should be respected or that my longevity somehow means that i should be respected. You sound like you're just another re-programmed/brain-washed site jumper cause I've read comments like yours before from other people. Andrew knows what i'm talking about...

Did i mention or suggest that the community would "feel it" if i retired? No. I agree that it wouldn't feel it....but ask yourself..would the community feel it if you retired either? How bout you stop kissing jae's ass for one second and smell your own bullshit. I've enjoyed my time on this forums over the years...and when i leave i'll take the experience with me to cherish...and that's quite enough for me. I don't require fame or accolades cause i simply dont give a fuck about it.

Like i said...i do what i can around here. I make my little posts when i can...and mod when i can. I'm sorry i can't once again be your hero and someone you can look up to..but i do shit that i deem to be more important. Go take your fucking PMS out on someone else...cause i dont want/need or will i tolerate it anymore. I seriously don't understand whats with you people attacking me every so often for no fucking reason. I don't come at any of you...or judge none of you. Go back to what you were doing at .org or whatever and leave me out of your shit.

[Axel]

Those two facts that you've been here a while and you haven't caused much trouble is why I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and a temporary ban of about 12 hours to let you cool off.

You mean like a timeout?

I can see it now... putting posters in timeout. Nick might never leave the corner

[Nick]

Bring it on mother fucker...

Lol bring what on? Are we flaming? Oh god i'm flaming with Yohance. SOS. Mayday. Scary stuff, i've made Yohane angry.

However, I'm definitly not senile...cause i acknowledge jae and matt as being two of the best this community has ever seen..

Congratulations?

Especially with people like you who spout bullshit for no good reason.

If labelling it bullshit is easier then okay, whatever makes the truth easier for you to handle.

I'd like you to quote me just one time recently or for this year that i've made a post stating that i should be respected or that my longevity somehow means that i should be respected.

You never said it directly. Actions say more than words. I reckon there's been more than 10 times when you've brought up your longevity when nobody asked/given a shit. What are you trying to prove?

I know others have noticed it too. It's just obvious.

You sound like you're just another re-programmed/brain-washed site jumper cause I've read comments like yours before from other people.

Yes, that's it. I'm completely brainwashed. I'm clearly biased and don't have an opinion of my own with this and other things in this thread.

My opinions are based on what i believe is right. I think i've proved that.

Did i mention or suggest that the community would "feel it" if i retired? No. I agree that it wouldn't feel it....but ask yourself..would the community feel it if you retired either?

Lol of course they wouldn't. I spent most of 2005 inactive and nobody noticed. But then, i don't make the same claims as you.

What happened to filling in Jae and Matthew's gaps? I thought that was a revolutionary idea!

How bout you stop kissing jae's ass for one second and smell your own bullshit.

Lol just about everybody kisses Jae's ass. It's hilarious. However I'd like to see you prove that i do. I'd put my money on Jae telling you that i'm one of the rare people that don't. Like i said, i base my opinions on what i believe is right. Not what Jae thinks. Generally we have the same ideals.

Like i said...i do what i can around here. I make my little posts when i can...and mod when i can. I'm sorry i can't once again be your hero and someone you can look up to..

Damn, man. I was counting on that. I was so positive that your claims try harder around the place with Jae and Matthew's departure would work out.

LMAO.

cause i dont want/need or will i tolerate it anymore.

Quotes like that always crack me up.

I seriously don't understand whats with you people attacking me every so often for no fucking reason. I don't come at any of you...or judge none of you. Go back to what you were doing at .org or whatever and leave me out of your shit.

Oh don't play that card ya big sook. If you don't make the claims, nobody will lay their expectations on you, everybody is happy.

Yohance, know this. Originally my intention was to stir you up, bring you into the moderator equation, see how you handle it all. Perhaps it would motivate you to improve? The NLSC needs its mods at this stage to step up...

Apparently not. You'd rather defend yourself.

I've heard someone mention Yohance's insecurity issues once before. It all makes sense now.

[Riot]

What is the point of this rant, Yohance? I really don't think it helps this situation with the moderating staff at all. You are suppose to help teach the new moderators some of the "ropes" and be a leader of the staff. Lately, you have been a Class A bitch and I think the majority of the forum realizes it. We all know and understand what you have meant to this forum over the years but what have you done for us lately? If you want to sneak away and retire then you can do that. There is nobody holding a gun to your head. However, if you start insulting and flipping out on posters for questioning your performance lately then I think you have a problem.

I'm not trying to start anything with you, Yohance. I'm simply trying to understand where the hell you are coming from. Your last two posts have contributed nothing positive in my eyes. If you are having a bad day or a tough week or a horrible month that is okay and we understand that. Just please do not take out on the forum members. You are not protected from criticism just because of how long you have been here. If this is going to be a thread about how we can improve the moderating staff then I see no reason why your name shouldn't be brought up in this topic. Please...grow up and grow a pair. Believe it or not nobody is perfect and there is always room for improvement. That is what this is all about.