I have lost faith in european players.

[BiGrEd819]

again.. he's only 22 years old so i don't really understand why so much of everything is already expected of him. just cuz he got drafted 1st does not mean the raptors expected him to make an immediate impact.

[bowdown]

again.. he's only 22 years old so i don't really understand why so much of everything is already expected of him. just cuz he got drafted 1st does not mean the raptors expected him to make an immediate impact.

aldridge is better

[dansensei]

again.. he's only 22 years old so i don't really understand why so much of everything is already expected of him. just cuz he got drafted 1st does not mean the raptors expected him to make an immediate impact.

why would you draft someone first if you won't expect him to make an immediate impact???

[Lamrock]

The silly thing called potential. Look at Kwame Brown when he first entered the league.

[shadowgrin]

again.. he's only 22 years old so i don't really understand why so much of everything is already expected of him. just cuz he got drafted 1st does not mean the raptors expected him to make an immediate impact.

But the deal is that he regressed instead of improving. That's something you don't want or expect from a young player.

[Lamrock]

Having the worst coach in the NBA isn't doing his development any favors though either.

[BiGrEd819]

again.. he's only 22 years old so i don't really understand why so much of everything is already expected of him. just cuz he got drafted 1st does not mean the raptors expected him to make an immediate impact.

But the deal is that he regressed instead of improving. That's something you don't want or expect from a young player.

hm lol iono maybe u should check out his stats on nba.com. his stats actually slightly improved but nowhere near regression. i swear to you... the only reason he is only able to put up mediocre numbers is because the minimal minutes he is playing. he is playing in a team where they already have a bunch of other season vets playing the same position.

no doubt andrea is a soft ass pussy. for got sake ur 7 ft take it to the hole... but he never was projected to play the traditional power/post player some people may expect from a 7 footer. Toronto already has Bosh.

Back to regression. bargnani actually exploded towards the end of last season every game he got a good amount of minutes.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_ba ... stats.html

[Lamrock]

His stats haven't improved. In fact, the only area in which he improved is assists. He went from a subpar 12.8 PER to an abysmal 10.6. His received just one less minute per game this year, and all of his stats but assists declined more than 5%, and coincidentally, his shooting % as well.

At this point, he is a poor man's Radmanovic, but maybe he can develop into a slightly better version of him!

[BiGrEd819]

again, bargnani exploded for a bunch of pts at the end of last season. the avg score doest justify the improvement he made in the season; although he didnt put up 20+ games every night, but he did it in majority of those games in the latter end of the season.

But if u wana talk stats, he didnt avg more pts but he did score more pts last season than he did the previous season.

An average number does not tell the whole story.. do not judge a player just by his stats.

[Lamrock]

WATCH THE GAMES OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a joke. He scored more because he played more games. In the games he played, he was garbage. J.R. Smith scored 41 points once. Does that make him a superstar? No.

[benji]

Now look who you've gone and brought into the thread.
[table][mrow]Month[mcol]MPG[mcol]P/36[mcol]R/36[mcol]A/36[mcol]POS/36[mcol]TS%[mcol]To%
[row]Nov[col]25.3[col]17.7[col]6.7[col]1.7[col]18.5[col].542[col]11.6
[row]Dec[col]19.8[col]9.7[col]3.8[col]1.7[col]15.7[col].369[col]16.4
[row]Jan[col]22.4[col]14.0[col]5.7[col]1.9[col]15.9[col].485[col]9.3
[row]Feb[col]29.7[col]18.3[col]5.7[col]1.6[col]17.6[col].564[col]8.0
[row]Mar[col]23.9[col]14.2[col]5.0[col]1.9[col]16.8[col].459[col]7.9
[row]Apr[col]20.4[col]16.3[col]6.4[col]1.3[col]18.3[col].481[col]7.2[/table]
November includes the one October game.

[Lamrock]

What is your point exactly, other than he had two good months, an 4 mediocre-bad months?

[benji]

Not everything is directed at you?

[Lamrock]

Sorry. There was confusion due to the fact that you didn't specifically state who you were referring to, and the fact that my post was the most recent. My bad.

I am soooo blogging about how your snarky reply made me feel. The world needs to know.

[benji]

He did cut his turnovers though, and his best month was in the second half of the year. You just have to ignore the shooting implosion. And you didn't watch any of his games anyway.

And what's with his, good month, horrible month, meh month cycle.

Stupid foreigners.

[Doobie]

Benji I know you've explained this before but what exactly are these 'benji stats' you use? I'm interested in knowing what everything means.

[benji]

Those aren't "benjistats" they are just regular standard ones used on b-r.

Minutes Per Game = The average minutes per game a player played.
Points, Rebounds, Assists, Possessions Per 36 = These stats per 36 minutes played.
TS% = Points acquired per shot attempt. (Divided by 2, so it appears as a percentage.)
To% = Turnovers per possession.

[BiGrEd819]

Lamrock i dont get why ur hating on bargnani so much lol. in my attempt to simply give the italian some credit here on the subject, i have discovered and found out more and more amazing shit in his game from searching his clips on youtube.com than ever before. i mean u make him sound like, olwokandi or darko milicic status.

[NovU]

i don't think lamrock hates bargnani that much. it's just that u seem to be in luv with bargnani. hopely not in the wrong way tho... oh boy

[Morzikei]

The concept of drafting the Next Whomever doesn't pan out for a lot of teams, regardless of whether it's a high schooler, foreign born player or someone who has somehow found themselves being mentioned in the same breath as a current or future Hall of Famer. I think it's more a case of bad scouting and/or unreasonable expectations and the general infatuation with "potential" that comes back to haunt teams.

Then you've got players like Arvydas Macijauskas and Sarunas Jacikevicus who pout and blast the NBA because they're unhappy with their role, Macijauskas in particular. I guess we don't know what happened behind closed doors but considering how many players have to battle to win spots on rosters and gone on to really make something of themselves as NBA players, Macijauskas' comments and dismissal of the idea that maybe he hadn't earned a bigger role with the team comes off as incredibly egotistical and childish.

I guess that you're wrong... Sure, it seems like nagging for more playing time is a bad thing, but compare what both Macas and Saras had in Europe and what they had in the NBA... They both played in the 2005 Euroleague final, and they weren't bench warmers, in fact, they there starters. Surely that was supposed to get them playing time.
But Saras made a mistake himself by going to Indiana instead of Cleveland - in Indiana he had to play SG, which really hit his play-making abilities, while in Cleveland he would have played PG (cause I don't remember Cavs having a good PG back then) and he would have had the backing of Big Z, one of his childhood friends (I believe that that would have also earned minutes). But Saras made the mistake, and wasn't ashamed to confess it (and then he joined a team that already had two good point guards and again had to play SG).
As for Macas - well, coach rotation. But what possible cause could you have for not allowing the best sniper in Europe to play (other than racism, as discussed by many in Lithuania)? I wouldn't say that Macas wasn't NBA material - quick, good shooter, as his last season showed, has penetration skills, will fight till the end, can play the PG position. I don't say he should've gotten 30 minutes, but at least 10-15. Such "playing" time which he got totally screwed up his career - wasn't much of a leader in the 2006 FIBA World Champs, got an early injury that prvented him from coming back until spring 2007. Another this winter (and there were some really idiotic ignorant lithuanians who rejoiced because it meant their team wouldn't get thrashed), another this spring, another this summer... And now he being sued and also is countersuing his club... Guess this wouldn't have happened if the NBA hadn't left a horrible taste in his mouth.


Back to the discussion: I agree that Europeans are becoming overrated, but I noticed that aside from Shaq and Camby there are no visible American centers. There are big big guys(Duncan, Stoudamire, Howard), but I see them more like power forwards. PG, SG, SF, PF positions all have a bunch of stars - but something is weird in the C position. And I believe that and the example of Big Z is what prompts many Europeans to come to the NBA (sadly, a certain Andriuskevicius did that and totally ****ed up his career - he played in the Euroleague, was a gigantic prospect - and now he plays in Spain's second league). Of course, one such mistake and a whole bunch of players begin to question the need to play in the NBA - even now two of Lithuania's biggest prospects Gecevicius(this one you might see in the Oracle Arena on October 21st) and Motiejunas say, that they see themselves only in Europe. I don't know about other countries, but I guess that they too are more keen to make decisions based on ruined careers than on great ones (also the fact that succesful NBA stars tend to forget their duties and don't play for the NT anymore - ask any Serbian about Eurobasket 2007 and he might have some nice words towards the NBA).

[Andrew]

I guess that you're wrong... Sure, it seems like nagging for more playing time is a bad thing, but compare what both Macas and Saras had in Europe and what they had in the NBA... They both played in the 2005 Euroleague final, and they weren't bench warmers, in fact, they there starters. Surely that was supposed to get them playing time.

How am I wrong? I'm just calling it the way that I see it, I don't blame them for being frustrated with the roles but I think their remarks were a bit childish all the same.

Furthermore, just because they played in the 2005 Euroleague final does not guarantee them playing time in the NBA. If there's someone better than them or they aren't adapting to the NBA style as well then it doesn't matter what they did in another league. Same goes for players coming from any other leagues or even the college ranks; once you get to the NBA, you have to prove yourself all over again. You can't rest on your laurels and keep riding on your achievements somewhere else.

I just think crying racism over the whole thing is a copout and a bit immature, passing the buck and putting all the blame on everyone else. And if his NBA experience derailed his career then I'd suggest that perhaps he lacks the mental fortitude to be a world class professional athlete. Plenty of people in all walks of life have suffered professional setbacks and have fought hard to bounce back and land on their feet. If he's going to pout, sulk and blame everyone else for his troubles then he's really only sabotaging himself.