The Letting Off Steam Thread

[cyanide]

At the moment I am extremely pissed off.

Hope things are ok with you man. If you want to talk about it, PM me as I've been through serious shit too.

[Gundy]

jesus, this seems pretty serious

[Maaarf]

Why So Serious?

[Indy]

Ireland is really fucking awesome. Not easy on my wallet though.

[Joe']

Ireland is really fucking awesome.

Tell us something we don't know.

Glad you're enjoying it, man. As for the prices, yeah it's that way all over Europe. Ireland's not that bad actually, just take a ferry to Britain and you'll know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: Fuck me. Turns out school starts tomorrow and I can't go to Boston on the 20th. Fuck my life...

[cyanide]

Ireland is really fucking awesome. Not easy on my wallet though.

Do you get money from your parents or something? Based on your posts, it seems like you rarely ever work

[Gundy]

I went to Ireland over the summer. The food sucks except for fish n' chips and the only thing to do after you travel the countryside is get drunk. Are you gonna live there now, Indy?

[Drex]

only thing to do after you travel the countryside is get drunk.

That's the magic of Ireland. I really want to go now.

[Indy]

Ireland is really fucking awesome.

Tell us something we don't know.

Glad you're enjoying it, man. As for the prices, yeah it's that way all over Europe. Ireland's not that bad actually, just take a ferry to Britain and you'll know what I'm talking about.

EDIT: Fuck me. Turns out school starts tomorrow and I can't go to Boston on the 20th. Fuck my life...

Actually Dublin is a hell of a lot more expensive then Britian. Its the 3rd most expensive city in the world behind Oslo and Moscow.

Cy, I worked a full time job for a long time, and since then I've had on and off type jobs like teaching piano, umpiring baseball, working part-time at other places.

[cyanide]

Actually Dublin is a hell of a lot more expensive then Britian. Its the 3rd most expensive city in the world behind Oslo and Moscow.

Interesting. I always thought it was Dubai or something, but good to know to avoid those places you mentioned till I can afford it! Damn the VAT!

Edit: there's a lot of conflicting reports. For instance this does say that Dublin is third, while London is first, but Forbes says Moscow is first, though Dublin isn't even on the list. Here's what CNN Money says:

1. Moscow
2. London
3. Seoul
4. Tokyo
5. Hong Kong
6. Copenhagen
7. Geneva
8. Osaka
9. Zurich
10. Oslo
11. Milan
12. St. Petersburg (Russia)
13. Paris
14. Singapore
15. New York City
16. Dublin
17. Tel Aviv
18. Rome
19. Vienna
20. Beijing

[Joe']

No way London isn't the most expensive city in the world. I've been there and even the most insignificant stuff (coffee, groceries) costs double what it costs here in Milan (which already is a very expensive city.)

Other British cities also result to be very expensive because of the current pound/euro (or pound/dollar, etc) conversion rate. For instance, Liverpool turned out to be very expensive for a city its size.

I believe CNN Money's got it right. Though I still believe London's more expensive than Moscow.

[el badman]

Yeah, I would think fucking London is #1 here. I'm also surprised NYC or Paris are not higher in the list, or that LA is not even there at all (or San Francisco for that matter).

[Joe']

LA's #21 on that City Mayors website. And, although I've never been there, I think every other major European city is far more expensive than any other city in North America.

From what I know, the cost of living is higher in California than the rest of the US mostly just because of real estate. Which, still, I don't think it's that exaggerated. I mean, you get what you pay for. It's absurd to think that the average 2,500 sq. ft home in LA goes for, what, US$750,000, while for the same money you barely get a 850 sq. ft apartment here in Milan.

I mean, enlighten me if I'm wrong, but I believe living in Europe is, in pretty much every aspect, much more expensive than living in the US (of course we're talking major cities here). Everything from real estate, to taxes, to pretty much every kind of goods and services (excluding health care) is at least 1.5x as expensive here. It's plausible that the only US city on the Top 20 list is NYC...

[el badman]

It might seem that way now Joe, but several years ago, I'm fairly sure that it was the other around. To me, the arrival of the euro changed everything. When I came back to France from my exchange student year here, all the prices were ridiculously jacked up. People were kind of feeling it, but it didn't really feel like inflation since the currency had changed altogether.
Now, from what I've heard in the last few years, you're correct, it does look like most major European cities did get extremely costly to live in, and it got more expensive than most US cities. After living in LA, I still feel like it should be higher in that list though, it's definitely not just the real estate, everything there is expensive as fuck...

[Indy]

el_badman, there is no way any American city is going to touch a European city. At least here in Dublin the prices for everything is higher in the euro than it would be in the dollar, and the value of the euro blows the dollar out of the water anyways.

For example a sandwich that would cost $5 in Chicago, LA or New York will cost 7€ here.

It is a difficult thing to calculate, and I'm too tired to go looking for lists right now, but I remember reading in multiple places that the top 3 was Moscow, Oslo and Dublin. I've done my fair share of traveling around Europe and Dublin is by far the most expensive place I've been. From cigarettes to taxis to movie tickets to beers to groceries etc. I don't know about living costs because I am living in a really nice house in South Dublin where I don't have to pay any rent as of right now. My girlfriend and I are considering getting a place in the city center though if I start making some consistent money.

CNN money is definitley wrong to say that Dublin is less expensive than New York. Its not even close.

[cyanide]

CNN money is definitley wrong to say that Dublin is less expensive than New York. Its not even close.

Honestly, I think it depends on location. I've been to NYC, and some areas, food is cheaper than where I'm from, or insanely expensive. I've had McDonald's and pizza there that was way cheaper that I could find in Alberta, but when I went into the heart of Manhattan for Chinese food, what I could get here for $6 Cdn was $16.75 US there.

I've heard Europe is ridiculously expensive, so I'll trust that more than what I've experienced in the States.

[el badman]

el_badman, there is no way any American city is going to touch a European city. At least here in Dublin the prices for everything is higher in the euro than it would be in the dollar, and the value of the euro blows the dollar out of the water anyways.

I haven't lived in Europe for about 5-6 years, so I guess I'm a bit out of touch. I do get to hear from my family that everything's ridiculously overpriced now, but I guess it doesn't really sink in since I'm still here and stuck with memories of (mostly) everything being more expensive here in the US.
I don't really see why Dublin is that way though, I mean, I can think of a shitload of places in Europe that are more popular destinations for tourists, and typically expensive places rhymes with touristic places.

[The X]

Europe is expensive having been there this past March. For me, Zurich was easily the most expensive. I didn't get to Dublin, but did get to London. From my experience, Zurich was a lot worse than London.

[Joe']

^Yeah, Switzerland's expensive as fuck. Being it 30 minutes away from Milan, I've been to Canton Ticino dozens of times, and I've been to Zurich and Bern too, but the most expensive city there has got to be Geneva.

Holy shit, a 33cl Coke can (which is already expensive here in downtown Milan at €6,00) was like €8 or something (I think it was 10 CHF) which translates into US$9. Nine bucks for a can of soda.

Indy, Dublin is definitely less expensive than New York when it comes to housing, taxes, etc.

I went into the heart of Manhattan for Chinese food, what I could get here for $6 Cdn was $16.75 US there

You could actually get something for US$16.75? In downtown Milan, you don't get out of ANY restaurant without having paid at least €150.

I haven't lived in Europe for about 5-6 years, so I guess I'm a bit out of touch. I do get to hear from my family that everything's ridiculously overpriced now, but I guess it doesn't really sink in since I'm still here and stuck with memories of (mostly) everything being more expensive here in the US.

That explains it. Five years is a lot of time. Hell, in Italy's case, even two years is a lot of time.

I remember prices (especially housing) were much lower when I arrived here in 2002. As I said, even two years ago, prices were much lower. For instance, milk has gone up €0,40 since Parmalat's financial fraud in 2003. VAT on certain prices has gone up 1-16% and other taxes have risen as well (luxury tax on SUVs, etc,) thanks to Mr. Prodi and his bogus government.

[cyanide]

which translates into US$9. Nine bucks for a can of soda.

You could actually get something for US$16.75? In downtown Milan, you don't get out of ANY restaurant without having paid at least €150.

Ok, so my situation was ridiculous, but yours is absolutely ridonkulous. Holy hell. I want to go to Italy this coming summer, so I'm gonna have to save up some money.

[Joe']

Yeah, I know it sounds ridiculous. Downtown Milan is crazy, everything costs more than double what it costs in most of the city, which is already, as I said, 1.5x times more expensive than pretty much every North American city.

And it's not just because of the euro/dollar exchange rate. As Indy said, the prices for everything are higher in the euro than it would be in the dollar. We live by the US$1=€1.50 rule, even if in reality it'd be more like US$1=€0.75...

I like to make the Dodge Journey example to explain it: while the American model has a higher production cost (bigger, more powerful engine, etc,) and starts at just US$20,750+taxes (about US$22,500 or €15,500,) the European version of this SUV starts at €25,000 (VAT included; about US$37,000, just eight grand less than double what it costs in the US.)

This example applies to most goods. Another good example is maple syrup. We pay €2.75 for a 6 oz. bottle of maple syrup. That's four dollars, what you Americans (and Canadians, I assume the prices are the same) pay for a 24 oz. bottle.

So concluding, yeah, Milan's pretty expensive (as is most of Italy.) I'm just glad at least the locally-produced goods are cheap.

[benji]

But hey, you get those wonderful governments in return. And soon will get to have some kind of leviathan overseer of the continent.

[Joe']

But hey, you get those wonderful governments in return.

Yeah, we get fucked in pretty much every possible way...

[Indy]

Cy if you want to go to Italy, I would avoid Milan anyways. I know quite a few people who have gone to all the tourist places in Italy and they all describe Milan as a complete shit-hole that they couldn't wait to escape. Venice is supposed to be an incredible place, as is Florence.

As for Dublin not being a huge tourist destination, you'd be surprised. Its 5th behind London, Paris, Rome and Barcelona. In fact the Guinness Storehouse in Dublin is the most visited attraction in all of Europe.

[Dramacydal]

Venice is supposed to be an incredible place

Venice is a shithole. Literally. It just sucks, there's not much you can do there and it's smelly as fuck. You can either rent one of those little boats and have a ride through water that's like 50% shit and urine or walk through the city and get shitted on by the thousands of pigeons. Don't waste your money and time on a trip to Venice, mmmkay.