Michael Jordan: "I would beat Kobe in my prime"

[Billie]

I have to confess that I am terribly wrong when I assumed that no one from the active players can be defeated by any other players from the past even in their prime. Vintage Mr. Jordan can beat Mouhamed Sene or Leon Powe or any other active player in that level easily and at no time. I also want to add that I’m very sorry for my English because I can’t really express myself in this language fluently. And the new technology of the shoe thing is a joke and only brainless person will react to it seriously.

I am not saying that Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan if we would sum up their career; Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever in fact. What I wanted to say is that present players have more benefits of a better training program and new skills that is inexistent during those of the 90’s or later. (Kobe or any other player drafted after 96 that is still active is part of the late 90’s so I will not categorized them or him in this era) Kobe has better athletic skills than Michael Jordan (Before, there’s only one Michael Jordan in the entire NBA, now there’s an enhanced Michael Jordan in more than one team). He has the crossover move, better ball handling, and better step back jumper, more of the modern street ball skills that will make him win against Michael I should speak. But Michael are more gracious or have more elegance than Kobe and the rest when it comes to the moves, I will still like to note that. That’s why I also made a comparison that Wilt can’t beat Shaq and West can’t beat Jordan and so forth. That is how I look on it. And once more, I’m talking about one on one physical basketball that does not involve any other emotional attributes like playing in front of the crowd, more heart and passion thing, stupid, nonsensical things like comparing their career stats and any other stuff like that. Besides, this issue started when Michael was asked by a kid on who will win in a one-on-one basketball game between him and Kobe and of course, with the fact that the clinic that he’s running there is named after him for sure, he said that he will win. It’s kind of like the boxing slang, “pound for pound”. On a head to head match-up, a lightweight can’t beat a heavyweight but in general, the lightweight can be “pound for pound” the best boxer in the world. In this case, Michael Jordan is “pound for pound” the best basketball player ever.

[hova-]

Kobe has a better ballhandling than Michael ? And a better step back jumper ? You should watch those videos posted above.

[Billie]

better looking perhaps.

[benji]

What I wanted to say is that present players have more benefits of a better training program and new skills that is inexistent during those of the 90’s or later.

And you wouldn't normalize these aspects in any hypothetical cross-time matchups?

better looking perhaps.

Exactly.

[Billie]

What I wanted to say is that present players have more benefits of a better training program and new skills that is inexistent during those of the 90’s or later.

And you wouldn't normalize these aspects in any hypothetical cross-time matchups?

better looking perhaps.

Exactly.

that's why i said realistically. (with regards to my first post)

[BiGrEd819]

delete

[BiGrEd819]

it is absolutely ridiculous to say kobe is better than michael jordan. BUT at the same time how can you judge michael is better than kobe. whether people like us agree or not the nba IS better now than 10 years ago. the god damn players and coaches themselves say so. it is only natural for a sport to evolve over time. With that said, kobe bryant does play against and WITH more physically athletic players. that doesnt necessarily mean man on man defense is tougher but it certainly does play a part in contributing in defense.

But the biggest difference in kobe and jordan's era i believe is the defense they played against.

May i all remind you for ALL of YOU PEOPLE who dont know jack slap about the nba, Zone Defense was illegal in the nba before 2000-2001. since the 2000-2001 season the nba has transformed and elevated its efficiency on both ends of the court through this simple change of rule.

Jordan never played against a "legal" zone defense in the nba in his chicago years. This means many things. players besides jordan's defender is not allowed to camp on him if he does not have the ball. he can not be double teamed, triple teamed for more than 3 secs cuz his defenders must return to their man. this gave jordan a distinct advantage. he could call an iso-play, bring the ball back out and play man to man. jordan certainly faced tons of double and triple teams. HOWEVER defense were to take in mind of the illegal zone rule forcing defense to double at the point of execution rather than being able camp a body on the superstar.

NOW imagine this rule with lebron in the nba. every time there's multi coverage he can simply bring the ball back to 25 ft forcing defense to retrieve back to their own man and play man-to-man. this is an advantage that super atheletes like shaq, kobe, lebron dont get anymore.

sure they had handchecks back then...but would u rather choose jordan against man to man hanchecks or kobe against today's zone(aka celts, det)

these 2 are interesting links u guys should look at:
this one is a lil biased but just trying to give u guys perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kYBeNQdSCc

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... wanted=all

[Billie]

DELETE.

[Lamrock]

Its ridiculous that you can't make a coherent argument, and devote entire posts to insulting someone who accidentally clicked Submit twice...

[Billie]

I think you should first post something related to the topic here before mocking me that my argument is illogical.

All you have here in this thread is a smiley and this insult and I won't be surprise if your next post would be just a plain sarcastic phrase which you usually do.

[Lamrock]

So because you made your "contributions" to the thread, you have the right to devote entire posts insulting other members because they accidentally clicked Submit twice? Nobody gives a flying fuck about my opinion on this matter, so I just made an observation about your argument, and defended Bigred here.

What does "reastically" mean?

[NovU]

it's pretty obvious Itsalottafun! never lived jordan's era.

benefits of better training? lol... talk about work ethic of today's players compared to those from jordan's time

enhanced mj in more than one team? False. perhaps enhanced drexler at best, but no1 close to mj. just bcuz u watched 40 yrs old mj getting owned occasionaly, it doesn't mean that kobe or others could have done it same in mj's prime. in fact, mj often outplayed a lot of today's stars at age of 40 coming outta 2nd retirement and was completely outta shape compared to himself in prime.

and i don't get why ppl would talk about 1 vs 1. when u talk about a better player, it should be about b-ball which is played 5vs5 not 1vs1. 1 vs 1, kobe is great, but ultimately, he doesn't really make others that much better. well... at least not as much as mj did.

[Billie]

So because you made your "contributions" to the thread, you have the right to devote entire posts insulting other members because they accidentally clicked Submit twice? Nobody gives a flying fuck about my opinion on this matter, so I just made an observation about your argument, and defended Bigred here.

What does "reastically" mean?

that's realistically..i accidentally typed it wrong and I give a flying fuck about your opinion. I need you to defend Michael or Kobe not Big Red.

it's pretty obvious Itsalottafun! never lived jordan's era.

benefits of better training? lol... talk about work ethic of today's players compared to those from jordan's time

enhanced mj in more than one team? False. perhaps enhanced drexler at best, but no1 close to mj. just bcuz u watched 40 yrs old mj getting owned occasionaly, it doesn't mean that kobe or others could have done it same in mj's prime. in fact, mj often outplayed a lot of today's stars at age of 40 coming outta 2nd retirement and was completely outta shape compared to himself in prime.

and i don't get why ppl would talk about 1 vs 1. when u talk about a better player, it should be about b-ball which is played 5vs5 not 1vs1. 1 vs 1, kobe is great, but ultimately, he doesn't really make others that much better. well... at least not as much as mj did.

Firstly, this issue started when Michael was asked by a kid on who will win in a one-on-one basketball game between him and Kobe. That is the time when he said he could beat Kobe in his prime or something like that. On a one on one game.

I only watched Jordan during the Finals before and I won't pretend that I know Jordan that much. I will not base my knowledge on DVDs alone or the internet. The term "nobody will come close" to jordan is hypothetical. We just owe respect to the guy.

I'm pretty much sure too that you never lived during the jordan era and the drexler era too basing on your avatar.

why do a poll if you only want jordan to win in that particular question and bash people who picked the other guy.

[NovU]

So because you made your "contributions" to the thread, you have the right to devote entire posts insulting other members because they accidentally clicked Submit twice? Nobody gives a flying fuck about my opinion on this matter, so I just made an observation about your argument, and defended Bigred here.

What does "reastically" mean?

that's realistically..i accidentally typed it wrong and I give a flying fuck about your opinion. I need you to defend Michael or Kobe not Big Red.

it's pretty obvious Itsalottafun! never lived jordan's era.

benefits of better training? lol... talk about work ethic of today's players compared to those from jordan's time

enhanced mj in more than one team? False. perhaps enhanced drexler at best, but no1 close to mj. just bcuz u watched 40 yrs old mj getting owned occasionaly, it doesn't mean that kobe or others could have done it same in mj's prime. in fact, mj often outplayed a lot of today's stars at age of 40 coming outta 2nd retirement and was completely outta shape compared to himself in prime.

and i don't get why ppl would talk about 1 vs 1. when u talk about a better player, it should be about b-ball which is played 5vs5 not 1vs1. 1 vs 1, kobe is great, but ultimately, he doesn't really make others that much better. well... at least not as much as mj did.

Firstly, this issue started when Michael was asked by a kid on who will win in a one-on-one basketball game between him and Kobe. That is the time when he said he could beat Kobe in his prime or something like that. On a one on one game.

I only watched Jordan during the Finals before and I won't pretend that I know Jordan that much. I will not base my knowledge on DVDs alone or the internet. The term "nobody will come close" to jordan is hypothetical. We just owe respect to the guy.

I'm pretty much sure too that you never lived during the jordan era and the drexler era too basing on your avatar.

why do a poll if you only want jordan to win in that particular question and bash people who picked the other guy.

lol...

[Bodz]

Just a personal observation fellas, it's getting a little personal, don't you think?

It's all about healthy discussions... "One man's meat maybe another man's poison". Opinions do differ; and we can try to respect that.. at least.

Pls don't flame me though...

[Laxation]

You're not allowed to have an opinion on an internet forum, unless its the same as the person flaming you.

Duh

[Andrew]

And the new technology of the shoe thing is a joke and only brainless person will react to it seriously.

Well, it could be due to English not being your first language (which is understandable) but since you mentioned it alongside other points it seems you're serious about, it hardly makes someone "brainless" to interpret it as a serious argument as well.

What I wanted to say is that present players have more benefits of a better training program and new skills that is inexistent during those of the 90’s or later.

And what skills might these be? What improvements have been made to their training? You can't just make stuff up to prove your point. What specific advancements have been made? What new skills do players have now that they did not ten years ago? What's different about their training? Or do you just assume that because that was then and this is now, something is radically different? If so, by all means name it.

Kobe has better athletic skills than Michael Jordan (Before, there’s only one Michael Jordan in the entire NBA, now there’s an enhanced Michael Jordan in more than one team).

An enhanced Michael Jordan in more than one team? I'm sorry, but that's just absurd. Also, what evidence do you have to suggest Michael Jordan was less athletic than Kobe Bryant, apart from it being your unquestionable opinion, even though you admit in a subsequent post you don't know much of Jordan in his prime? Then what are you basing your opinion on? Sheer ignorance? That's not convincing proof.

He has the crossover move, better ball handling, and better step back jumper, more of the modern street ball skills that will make him win against Michael I should speak.

I'm sorry but this is a laughably baseless claim, not only in light of your admission that you don't know much of Michael Jordan in his prime but also the notion that there are all these fantastic moves that weren't around ten to fifteen years ago. These "modern street ball skills" you attribute to Kobe were around before he was even born, let alone playing basketball competitively.

It’s kind of like the boxing slang, “pound for pound”. On a head to head match-up, a lightweight can’t beat a heavyweight but in general, the lightweight can be “pound for pound” the best boxer in the world. In this case, Michael Jordan is “pound for pound” the best basketball player ever.

How is it remotely anything like that? We're talking about two players of similar sizes, playing styles and skill levels. It's hardly apples and oranges in that regard.

[Carmo]

Didn't you read his post shadow?

There's no question Kobe would dominate this battle.

THERE IS NO QUESTION. It is so cemented as reality it cannot even be questioned. To question it would be pure unadulterated blasphemy.

I can't wait for the day where heretics like you swing from the gallows.

I find hilarity in the fact that you thought I was serious, so thankyou. I literally lolled at your post.

But seriously I don't think there would be such a big gap between Jordan and Kobe. What makes Jordan a much better defender? I've seen both Jordan Kobe shut superstars down completely. What makes him a much better offensive player? I've seen Jordan score 63, I've seen Kobe score 81.
I'm pretty sure it isn't definite one way or the other. Kobe would say exactly the same thing as Jordan did.

[Cornerthree]

I have this thought guys, that I would like you guys to agree or disagree with.

In my opinion, most of today's basketball fans say that Michael was a lot better than Kobe is because they developed differently.

I think that starting off in a bad team, but being "the guy" would've helped Kobe develop differently, he would've faced tougher defenses earlier in his career, he would've learned a lot more earlier and develop his game quicker and better. He would've learned to trust his team-mates and make them better early in his career. Instead, he ended up being with Shaq, being the 2nd option and not having the opportunity to lead a team. If he had started his career like MJ did, more people would be saying that Kobe is better than Michael and probably Kobe would've evolved into a better player. You agree with me?


BTW, is Greg Anthony hating MJ?

Greg Anthony said that "having played with both Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant...Kobe is definately the greatest and most skilled player to have ever touched a round ball and Michael doesnt even possess the skills Kobe possesses".

[benji]

I find hilarity in the fact that you thought I was serious

Multiple Choice:
A.) What a coincidence!
B.) Hey! Assuming isn't allowed around here!

[Andrew]

What makes him a much better offensive player? I've seen Jordan score 63, I've seen Kobe score 81.

A player's career high alone does not make him a better scorer than someone else. David Robinson and David Thompson both have higher single game scoring marks than Michael Jordan's career high 69 against Cleveland but I wouldn't say they are better scorers. They lack the other achievements that Michael Jordan has such as career and single season averages and individual records. And that's just looking at the numbers, not the manner in which Jordan racked up all those points.

BTW, is Greg Anthony hating MJ?

Greg Anthony said that "having played with both Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant...Kobe is definately the greatest and most skilled player to have ever touched a round ball and Michael doesnt even possess the skills Kobe possesses".

He's definitely not "hating", he's entitled to his opinion the same as anyone else though it would seem other people who have played with or against Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant have different ideas on the matter. I would not agree with Anthony's assessment, I would go so far as to suggest he's being a bit selective with his memory there.

[benji]

Since Kobe needs someone who can formulate a coherent argument. I asked an expert who Andrew approves of:

Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.

Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
...
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.

In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.

Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.

The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
...
Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

The NBA is tougher now.

Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.
...
Kobe is just as good or better than MJ on the defensive end. Jordan was an unbelievable defender, but some of you seemed to forget he was playing alongside a defender who was just as capable -- Scottie Pippen. If you think that didn't help Jordan beef up his defensive stats, you are delusional. The reason I give Kobe even more credit is (A) he's the only player in the league even remotely interested in being a good defender and he's been named to the All-Defensive first team four times during an age when every rule is geared to create more offense. Will Kobe ever win Defensive Player of the Year? Probably not. But then again, he probably won't win a lot of the awards Jordan received because people really, really hate Kobe.
...
Kobe will never be the best player who played the game. That achievement belongs to MJ alone. He'll never impact the world the way MJ did. But from a skill perspective, Kobe has MJ beat.

And Sharone Wright ends the discussion:

"Hello, I'm Sharone Wright, a former top-six pick in the NBA. I was around Kobe my first and second year with the 76ers (Bryant worked out with the 76ers when he was in high school). Kobe would be the first to be at practice and he would be the last to leave. You want to talk about a will to win? This kid was amazing. He has a mad streak only the good ones have. When he wants to stop you, he will. When he wants 50, he'll give you 50. Simple as that. "I played a lot of games against Jordan, and truthfully Michael was the greatest I've ever seen, but Kobe has everything and even more to his game. The comparisons are so equal. So many critics let their displeasure for Kobe in his personal life blind them when it comes to his game and his place as one of the top-three players of all time. Kobe should be going on his fourth MVP, but they are so blinded by what their perception of Kobe is. Say what you want, but poll 20 NBA players right now, the ones that don't hold a grudge against Kobe, and they will tell you that it isn't even close to him and another player in the league. That's real talk for you."

[Andrew]

Ah, good old Jemele Hill. Anyone who doesn't see things from her perspective clearly isn't being objective!

[Sauru]

to be honest i dont see how anyone can say kobe is better, makes no sense at all to me. i think people are already forgetting just how good jordan truely was. well a few people anyway

[Carmo]

What makes him a much better offensive player? I've seen Jordan score 63, I've seen Kobe score 81.

A player's career high alone does not make him a better scorer than someone else. David Robinson and David Thompson both have higher single game scoring marks than Michael Jordan's career high 69 against Cleveland but I wouldn't say they are better scorers. They lack the other achievements that Michael Jordan has such as career and single season averages and individual records. And that's just looking at the numbers, not the manner in which Jordan racked up all those points.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I was more pointing out the fact that I have seen both of them play and both of them can pretty much dominate whenever they want to. I couldn't tell you who is better but I know, even if it is Jordan, that it is a lot closer than a lot of people (including Jordan) think it it.