Sonics moving to Oklahoma City

[GoHornets]

I have a question about this. Let's say Gary Payton retires now. He played in Seattle, right? Would this new Oklahoma team retire his number (because it is the team he used to play for), or Payton's jersey won't be retired by Seattle or Oklahoma?

[hokupguy]

the city got to keep the name the logo and the history, so GP # wont be retired any team soon.

[Lamrock]

That is a good question. Perhaps he retires it in Miami. (lame)

[almightyx]

Damn son, no need to be a cold hearted son of a bitch because you're happy.

My comment wasn't meant to be cold hearted at all. I just should have picked my words better, that's all. I apologize if I offended anyone.

And thank you Andrew for clarifying poster's opinions in this thread. I guess that's what I get for skimming through them. I too believe this could have been handled a lot differently. For Seattle's sake, I hope Stern will give them the first shot at another team, instead of another city.

[benji]

Midwest

Wait. When did Oklahoma become a "Midwest" state? Same time the old Midwest became known as the "Rust Belt"?

Oklahoma's a "Plains" state.

[Cartar]

I have a question about this. Let's say Gary Payton retires now. He played in Seattle, right? Would this new Oklahoma team retire his number (because it is the team he used to play for), or Payton's jersey won't be retired by Seattle or Oklahoma?

I think they will, since Seattle Sonics is part of Oklahoma´s teams history. Not exactly the same example, but Washington Wizards retired Earl Monroe´s number, although he played for Baltimore Bullets

EDIT: Here is somekind of answer:

What about those banners, retired numbers, championship trophies, and the like, anyway?

Those still belong to the Oklahoma City-bound Professional Basketball Club, but the originals will stay in Seattle, at a museum. (Although they will be available for periodic display in Oklahoma City.) Oklahoma City can display replicas.

The agreement says that if and when there is a new owner in Seattle, then the Oklahoma City owners will hand over the banners, trophies, retired jerseys and the like, "provided that such owner acknowledges that the memorabilia relates to a 'shared history' between Professional Basketball Club and the team and that PBC retains the right to create and display duplicate copies of such memorabilia."

[benji]

Not exactly the same example, but Washington Wizards retired Earl Monroe´s number, although he played for Baltimore Bullets

Especially different since that's the same team. The Bullets moved to D.C. and then decades later changed to the Wizards because bullets are magical objects that cause people to turn evil and violent.

Oklahoma City is getting a brand new team, the Sonics are just disbanding for a few years and giving all their players to the new team. This is what was once proposed for the Hornets, but there was no agreement, thus the new franchise was the Bobcats, not the team that arrived in New Orleans.

[Andrew]

What about those banners, retired numbers, championship trophies, and the like, anyway?

Those still belong to the Oklahoma City-bound Professional Basketball Club, but the originals will stay in Seattle, at a museum. (Although they will be available for periodic display in Oklahoma City.) Oklahoma City can display replicas.

The agreement says that if and when there is a new owner in Seattle, then the Oklahoma City owners will hand over the banners, trophies, retired jerseys and the like, "provided that such owner acknowledges that the memorabilia relates to a 'shared history' between Professional Basketball Club and the team and that PBC retains the right to create and display duplicate copies of such memorabilia."

To that end, Payton himself might not want to partake in any ceremony that doesn't involve the Sonics name.

[[Q]]

Oklahoma City is getting a brand new team, the Sonics are just disbanding for a few years and giving all their players to the new team. This is what was once proposed for the Hornets, but there was no agreement, thus the new franchise was the Bobcats, not the team that arrived in New Orleans.

it's weird though because the Hornets still retained their players and the Bobcats got new ones. it would be quite interesting for people who are big Sonics fans becuase of a player (like Durant) only to have him "traded" to the Oklahoma City team. and then if in the near future (by some miracle) Seattle gets a new arena and a new team, Durant would play against the Sonics even though he was drafted by them.


isn't that what happened with the Cleveland Browns and the Baltimore Ravens of the NFL?

[Indy]

Oklahoma City is getting a brand new team, the Sonics are just disbanding for a few years and giving all their players to the new team. This is what was once proposed for the Hornets, but there was no agreement, thus the new franchise was the Bobcats, not the team that arrived in New Orleans.

it's weird though because the Hornets still retained their players and the Bobcats got new ones. it would be quite interesting for people who are big Sonics fans becuase of a player (like Durant) only to have him "traded" to the Oklahoma City team. and then if in the near future (by some miracle) Seattle gets a new arena and a new team, Durant would play against the Sonics even though he was drafted by them.


isn't that what happened with the Cleveland Browns and the Baltimore Ravens of the NFL?

An Agreement always has to be reached about whether or not the team is really moving, or if they are just taking the players and making a new team. This one is the latter, like the Browns.

When the Hornets moved, it was really the Hornets moving, the Bobcats are a totally different team.

[The X]

Oklahoma City is getting a brand new team, the Sonics are just disbanding for a few years and giving all their players to the new team. This is what was once proposed for the Hornets, but there was no agreement, thus the new franchise was the Bobcats, not the team that arrived in New Orleans.

it's weird though because the Hornets still retained their players and the Bobcats got new ones. it would be quite interesting for people who are big Sonics fans becuase of a player (like Durant) only to have him "traded" to the Oklahoma City team. and then if in the near future (by some miracle) Seattle gets a new arena and a new team, Durant would play against the Sonics even though he was drafted by them.


isn't that what happened with the Cleveland Browns and the Baltimore Ravens of the NFL?

An Agreement always has to be reached about whether or not the team is really moving, or if they are just taking the players and making a new team. This one is the latter, like the Browns.

When the Hornets moved, it was really the Hornets moving, the Bobcats are a totally different team.

that's true....when I think the New Orleans Hornets' history, I think of LJ, Zo, Dell Curry, Muggsy Bogues, Bobby Phills etc....when I think of Bobcats' short history, it's Meka, Gerald Wallace, Brezec etc....completely different teams....

[benji]

that's true....when I think the New Orleans Hornets' history, I think of LJ, Zo, Dell Curry, Muggsy Bogues, Bobby Phills etc....when I think of Bobcats' short history, it's Meka, Gerald Wallace, Brezec etc....completely different teams....

I don't understand this post. Hopefully, it's me making more insidious assumptions.

My original wording was apparently inartful, Indy's was not. But I will screw things up again.

Based on my understanding of the agreement. The new Oklahoma City team is not the Sonics they are a completely new team that has formed and been given the now defunct Seattle SuperSonics old players. This is the same situation in the NFL with the Ravens/Browns. The NFL does not consider the Ravens to be the old Browns, they consider it a new team that just happened to form the same year the Browns stopped existing.

The New Orleans Hornets is the same team as Charlotte Hornets. Just like the Clippers, Grizzlies, Warriors, Sixers, Hawks, et al.

What I was saying is that at one point it had been considered to make the New Orleans team a brand new team, and not the moved Hornets and that the "expansion team" that became the Bobcats would have actually been the Charlotte Hornets returning to play again. Shinnridge refused this agreement, whereas Bennett has not.

[The X]

I was just agreeing with what Indy said, I hadn't actually even read what you said, so sorry if I butted in on it....I meant to only quote what Indy said, not his quotes of you....

[benji]

That has nothing to do with why I do not understand your post but...okay...

And why is responding to a thread considered "butting in"? When did threads on here become one-on-one chats as so many seem to desperately want or think them to be?

EDIT: Since people seem to think I'm incredulous if they respond to me.

I read this:

that's true....when I think the New Orleans Hornets' history, I think of LJ, Zo, Dell Curry, Muggsy Bogues, Bobby Phills etc....when I think of Bobcats' short history, it's Meka, Gerald Wallace, Brezec etc....completely different teams....

As:

that's true [because] when I think the New Orleans Hornets' history, I think of...

The remainder of the post was not an incredulous response to the idea that The X was not understanding the point both myself and Indy made, but an extended clarification for Qballer.

[Jing]

So the team will be coming up with a new name and all that then? Guess they'll spend the 09-10 season determining a name and logo and all that.

[benji]

They'll have one before this next season as they intend to start playing in Oklahoma City for the 2008-09 season.

[Jing]

I just don't see how they can decide on an adequate team name, colors, jersey design, and all that in the next 3 to 4 months. When the Bobcats were deciding on names and stuff they started ages ahead.

[benji]

And they still botched them all, although not as bad as their predecessors. I don't see how you can't just decide these things over a weekend, let alone over a summer. There are people that get paid to do these things. Pay them and have them do it.

[BigGameJames]

From what I read, Clay Bennett gets to retain all history concerning the Sonics franchise, the one championship trophy they have, the retired numbers, banners etc.. which I guess he'll be displaying in OKC to drum up interest in the team. Seems kind of lame to me, I wish he'd leave that stuff in Seattle and pretend that OKC was some sort of expansion team and build it's history around OKC. Might get kind of complicated if the league ever expands to Seattle again but it's former trophy and numbers etc. are in Oaklahoma. Somebody correct me if I'm worng but I think that's what I read.

[benji]

Until the Seattle SuperSonics return, the Oklahoma City team will keep all the trophies/banners/etc. and will make a claim to the history. When the Sonics return, they will technically "share" the numbers/trophies/etc. although the physical trophies and such will return to Seattle, and the history will revert to the Sonics.

This is provided all the terms in the agreement are met. If they are not, the Sonics will have simply moved to Oklahoma City.

[Wacky Bibe]

What I understand is that OKC will be the Oklahoma City Sonics with the histories, banners, trophies..the paytons and the kemps..with the green and yellow of the Seattle Sonics. Am I right? Plus..if ever seattle returns..it would be a new franchise similar to charlotte bobcats of today. Am I right?

[benji]

Once, people read posts in the threads they responded to. (Or did their own research.)

[Andrew]

What I understand is that OKC will be the Oklahoma City Sonics with the histories, banners, trophies..the paytons and the kemps..with the green and yellow of the Seattle Sonics. Am I right? Plus..if ever seattle returns..it would be a new franchise similar to charlotte bobcats of today. Am I right?

No, Seattle has retained the Sonics name and records. If Seattle gets a new team, they would be able to call them the Sonics and trace their lineage back to the original Seattle Supersonics (1967-2008) including standings, numbers, banners etc. However, as Ben said there'd be kind of a shared heritage with the team in Oklahoma, which will retain the physical trophies and banners until such time as Seattle gets a new team.

[[Q]]

rumors that they will be the Oklahoma City Outlaws. they should make some sick black jerseys kinda like Kansas State's black ones. A black and gold team would be a nice change from all the blue & red.

they'll wear generic adidas Oklahoma city jerseys in the summer league.

[Indy]

What I understand is that OKC will be the Oklahoma City Sonics with the histories, banners, trophies..the paytons and the kemps..with the green and yellow of the Seattle Sonics. Am I right? Plus..if ever seattle returns..it would be a new franchise similar to charlotte bobcats of today. Am I right?