Be a G.M. for a day - from Hoopsworld forum

I'm saying if Duncan leaves the paint, do a switch with Shaq and Martin or Gooden and that way Shaq is always around the hole.

What about if I have both players leave the paint? Shaq can't guard the hoop.

Artest is a much better offensive player then Ben Wallace. He is averaging 16.6ppg this season. He had 27 points against the Knicks a few weeks ago. Thats a pretty good effort for someone who is an average offensive player.

Artest isn't a shooter though, which means he will struggle to crack my Triangle Defense™ and Barry is more than good enough to handle Artest.

They probably don't throw it at them in the playoffs because they have already tried everything in the regular season and realise nothing works. I'm sure many teams have tried a zone and found it doesn't have an effect.

If anyone has ever tried the Triangle Defense™ I'd like to know who and when. I did a little reading and found out that I misunderstood Seth-o's description of the Triangle and 2. It's pretty much nothing like that. It's a combination of a zone and man-to-man, that allows collapsing on any player. Not that a Triangle and 2 wouldn't stop a team with no real perimeter threats.

You make it sound so easy. This containing Shaq thing. It's alright for you to say it would work. When has it ever? Do you think NBA coaches have tried everything imagineable.

No. I don't. There are new rules every season that affect how defense can be played. Also, if someone tried this, I don't see how it wouldn't work on not only Shaq, but on any team. It might be because few teams have the athleticism and smarts to pull it off. The reason it will work in this situation is because of the team I have assembled with this specific strategy in mind.

So I guess this means everyone can make some changes.

You changed your team, so I assumed me switching two young beasts for two older role players with the same salary would be fine.

I'm interested in what offensive and defensive sets you would plan to run Clinton (I'd just describe them, positioning of players, etc. so that anyone can understand instead of using the names).

I open that up to anyone else. Not just Clinton. It'll be interesting to see what people come up with for offense and defense to best suit their team.

OK, let's have this going but you are not supposed to pick up more than 3 players from an already posted roster, are you guys ok with it?, sure you are, none of you have done it. I want to see how was going to be Orlando if they wouldn't trade Webber for Penny when they drafted him. Now it's Showtime.

My starting 5

PG Nick Van Exel (3)
SG Penny Hardaway (3)
C Shaquille O'Neal (25)
PF C. Webber (15)
SF S. Pippen (3)

==================
Derrick Coleman (3)
Shawn Kemp (3)
Toni Kucok (3)
David Robinson (3)
Steve Smith (3)
Tony Parker (3)
Keith Van Horn (3)

70 M.

Of course you can come with some competition but I bet my first lost will not be playing, I will stay home and that way you guys can win some of the games, I will not like to finish 82-0, that would be boring, lol

OK, let's have this going but you are not supposed to pick up more than 3 players from an already posted roster, are you guys ok with it?

Well, I dumped Gooden and Arenas who were on other peoples teams. And only three of my players were chosen before me.

Of course you can come with some competition but I bet my first lost will not be playing, I will stay home and that way you guys can win some of the games, I will not like to finish 82-0, that would be boring, lol

But...you wouldn't finish 82-0? I mean, your team is far from flawless. And my team would eaisly exploit yours like it would everyone elses since no one apparently has any offensive or defensive plans.

my team would eaisly exploit yours like it would everyone elses since no one apparently has any offensive or defensive plans

Let me see if I got this, are you saying that your premature team can try to beat my all star team?, have u lost your mind?, lol. OMG, this is so funny, let me see your team for a moment. I would kick your team axx as many times as I please, lol. And not just that, all I see in ur team is Tim Duncan, I just have to place webber for Tim, and when I sit
webber, Kemp will take care of that big Slow Duncan. I have a match for Duncan while you don't have how to match Shaq. You can't play any defense while I have the all time defensive SF S. Pippen, experience & future Hall of Famer, How about My Point Guard & Shooting Guard, lol. I have the best bench with Robinson coming from there, I have no idea how can you get in the paint, Shaq & David will smack you down, lol. Now, I think you really need some inspiration, let's see who else is in your team, LOL. OMG, Kurt Thomas, are you going to let him play? LOL. ok, Im going to ignore your comments, the players you have there don't even match my bench, lol. OK, Im going to stop Laughing, you know, I don't think I would even see you in the Playoff, or you think there's a chance for you, unless there are 24 Grizzlies in the league, you might. Let me tell you this, it's a good thing to try you know, but when you can't beat the opponent, you better join him. lol. who's Next?

ben, what is this triangle defense you're always talking about? You think you could explain it to me? I can't beat it if i don't know what i'm up against...

I'll pick my guys later...

Eugene

Shaquille O'Neal 25
Ben Wallace 12
Shane Battier 3
Doug Christie 3
John Stockton 5
David Robinson 3
Drew Gooden 3
Scottie Pippen 3
Jason Richardson 3
Jay Williams 3
Reggie Miller 3
Nick Van Exel 3

Honestly, I think any of your guys teams would be hard pressed to beat this lineup no matter what you do. Absolutely superd defense here, no questions asked. Add a touch of veteran leadership into the mix. Throw in a couple of guys who can hit the outside shot. All of these players are well-rounded for their positions, with the exception of maybe Miller who isn't a good defender and Wallace who can't score at will, though neither are liabilities by any means. There really isn't anything a team like this can't do.

Shaq 25
Jay Williams 3
Michael Jordan 5
Rodney Rogers 3
Brent Barry 3
Caron Butler 3
Yao Ming 10
Carlos Boozer 3
Al Harrington 3
Tony Battie 3
Erick Strickland 3
Bruce Bowen 3
69

Between Jay Will, Caron Butler, Yao Ming, Al Harrington, I'm going to have at least one superstar, until then, my squad holds down the fort with Shaq and MJ on the same team with a slew of hardworking veterans.

Or... I take Dajuan Wagner, Darius Miles, Ricky Davis, Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Bimbo Coles, Eric Williams, Latrell Spreewell, Rod Strickland, Lonny Baxter, Steve Kerr, and Shawn Bradley... get the first pick, draft Lebron James and go from there... and sign a really good free agent with the cap space...

Slam 37, Reggie's worth 10 mil. Before you brag, check that you fit under the cap...

I'll come up with the lineups and rotations later...

Good night all...

Shaquille O'Neal 25
Ben Wallace 12
Shane Battier 3
Doug Christie 3
John Stockton 5
David Robinson 3
Drew Gooden 3
Scottie Pippen 3
Jason Richardson 3
Jay Williams 3
Nick Van Exel 3
Reggie Miller 10 Penny Hardaway 3

That a little better for you then? Team still does the same thing...

[/quote]Shaquille O'Neal 25
Ben Wallace 12
Shane Battier 3
Doug Christie 3
John Stockton 5
David Robinson 3
Drew Gooden 3
Scottie Pippen 3
Jason Richardson 3
Jay Williams 3
Reggie Miller 3
Nick Van Exel 3

Honestly, I think any of your guys teams would be hard pressed to beat this lineup no matter what you do. Absolutely superd defense here, no questions asked.

You have just picked 4 of my players, but that's cool with me, it shows me that my team is extremely superb like you would say.

Tim Duncan - $25 million
Andre Miller - $12 million
Ron Artest - $5 million
Drew Gooden - $3 million
Kurt Thomas - $3 million
Amare Stoudemire - $3 million
Keith Van Horn - $3 million
Brent Barry - $3 million
Gilbert Arenas - $3 million
Eric Snow - $3 million
Mike Miller - $3 million
Erick Dampier - $3 million

Nobody's gonna pick my team...but after they beat you by 30...

Hey, I'll tell you what, your team is so bad that it's not allowed to compete against mine. lol. I'll just play with good and great teams, I need a Manager for my second choice, who is going to meet me in the Finals.

S. Francis 15 M
E. Jones 8 M
V. Divac 5 M
R. Wallace 12 M
L. Spreewell 8 M

you can add 7 $3 M players, lol

Let me see if I got this, are you saying that your premature team can try to beat my all star team?

Try? No, it will. The Blazers are an all-star team. Why are they beat by real teams? I mean...You don't even have an offensive/defensive plan.

And not just that, all I see in ur team is Tim Duncan

Because you're blind or ignorant. One or the other if you don't see how the team works as a team.

I just have to place webber for Tim, and when I sit
webber, Kemp will take care of that big Slow Duncan.

Slow? Hardly, Kemp's even slower. Neither one can shut down Tim.

I have a match for Duncan while you don't have how to match Shaq.

Wait? Yes, I can match Shaq. And no, you don't have a match for Duncan. You can't guard him with one player.

You can't play any defense

And there goes ALL your credibility.

while I have the all time defensive SF S. Pippen

Hardly.

How about My Point Guard & Shooting Guard

You mean, turnover prone or injury prone?

I have the best bench with Robinson coming from there, I have no idea how can you get in the paint, Shaq & David will smack you down, lol.

Simple, I pull them out from the paint. Not that I'd need to get in the paint to score.

Now, I think you really need some inspiration

My team has it? To win a title? As a team?

OMG, Kurt Thomas, are you going to let him play?

Yes. Why wouldn't I play a terrific defender and rebounder with a great 15+ ft shot than can operate in either the low or high post allowing him to be played with Duncan?

ok, Im going to ignore your comments, the players you have there don't even match my bench, lol.

Perhaps, you should pay attention to the NBA?

OK, Im going to stop Laughing, you know, I don't think I would even see you in the Playoff

Except you would, and they would destroy you because you can't defend the offense and can't score on the defense.

Let me tell you this, it's a good thing to try you know, but when you can't beat the opponent, you better join him. lol. who's Next?

But, I can beat the opponent? I mean, again, you don't even have an offensive or defensive plan, you're just throwing the players out and saying, "go play". That won't do much good, especially with the age of your lineup.

Damn you Greg, piecing together a very scary team. Damn you too, Eugene, piecing together a team almost as scary now, but scarier in the future.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how they'd run their offense and defense. We'll really see if you can beat me team (especially you scubilete)

what is this triangle defense you're always talking about? You think you could explain it to me? I can't beat it if i don't know what i'm up against...

A concoction I came up with. It's a switching man-to-man that takes zone elements that allows it to collapse on any player it wishes with a double team and a hypotenuse that cuts off passing lanes and can rotate to one of the open players in a snap. It eats the Triangle Offense for breakfast and a standard 3-2 for lunch. But I'd really have to know about other teams offenses to know exactly how to throw it at them.

As for my offensive strategy, it's another crazy mad scientist concoction. It takes elements from the Princeton, Dallas, Sacramento and Triangle Offenses and throws them all together in a crazy spread motion offense that can open up any part of the floor it needs to and streches the defense making defense lapses and poor double teams nigh impossible to recover from.

Last edited by :digerati: on Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey, I'll tell you what, your team is so bad that it's not allowed to compete against mine.

Ignorant Fascist.

I'll just play with good and great teams

Like...mine!

I need a Manager for my second choice, who is going to meet me in the Finals.

Hah! You won't even make it if Greg is in your conference.

S. Francis 15 M
E. Jones 8 M
V. Divac 5 M
R. Wallace 12 M
L. Spreewell 8 M

you can add 7 $3 M players, lol

And that team would lose way too much.

I've made some changes because I decided on a different game plan. Plus a lot of people chose the same players, so that makes matchups pretty boring doesn't it.

C-Shaquille O'Neal (25m)
PF-Kenyon Martin (5m)
SF-Grant Hill (8m)
SG-Jason Richardson (3m)
PG-Bobby Jackson (5m)

Bench
Theo Ratliff (5m)
Caron Butler (3m)
Michael Redd (3m)
Dajuan Wagner (3m)
Troy Hudson (3m)
Raef LaFrentz (3m)
Drew Gooden (3m)

Last edited by Clinton on Fri Dec 06, 2002 7:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

You can't have that lineup. Richard Hamilton is $8 million.

Hey, I've been a but curious for a while now, so I'll ask. Why in the hell do you have a picture of Bill O'Reilly!? I cannot stand that man, I hate him with a passion!

Ahh crap, didn't see him! Hold up.

Problem Solved

Hey, I've been a but curious for a while now, so I'll ask. Why in the hell do you have a picture of Bill O'Reilly!? I cannot stand that man, I hate him with a passion!

This has nothing to do with this thread, perhaps it should be PMed?

Problem Solved

Good. Now. Your offensive and defensive plans?

As for my offensive strategy, it's another crazy mad scientist concoction. It takes elements from the Princeton, Dallas, Sacramento and Triangle Offenses and throws them all together in a crazy spread motion offense that can open up any part of the floor it needs to and streches the defense making defense lapses and poor double teams nigh impossible to recover from.

Let me see, are you saying you have an offensive strategy, what's that? lol. Are you crazy? you can't slow down Shaq & Webber, you will never do any damage against my guys. Im going to let you ask Duncan who has disqualified him for 3 straight years, some of those swept, who has done it, right, Shaquille "Super Man" O'Neal. Don't come with Offensive & Defensive plan, that all you're talking is crap, I said and repeat, you're team has not even passed the test to face my team, you need basketball players, remember something, not everyone who says I'm a Basketball player is a real one, lol. I have in my team 3 MVPs, 3 All Defense Players, 4 future Hall of Famers, those are super stars, it's like you are telling me the 1st Dream Team was not good enough for your team, that's all crap, man. who told you Artest can defend Pippen, or Webber or Shaq?, who said Duncan can even compare or stand in Shaq's way?, I'm serious, all you say makes me laugh so hard that I bet you are a comedian. If your not Bill Cosby, this subject has shown me your as good as him as a comedian, you have just said you will let Kurt Thomas Guard or play Shaq, lol

Let me see, are you saying you have an offensive strategy, what's that?

My god...

Are you crazy? you can't slow down Shaq & Webber

Yes, you can.

you will never do any damage against my guys.

Except for say, 130pts.

Im going to let you ask Duncan who has disqualified him for 3 straight years, some of those swept, who has done it, right, Shaquille "Super Man" O'Neal.

WRONG. The Lackers have disqualified the Spurs for 2 straight years. Infact, Kobe did more damage in those series than Shaq did.

Don't come with Offensive & Defensive plan, that all you're talking is crap

Yeah, don't have a plan, throwing out players who won't get along and work as a team and telling them "go play" is better than a plan!

I said and repeat, you're team has not even passed the test to face my team, you need basketball players

I have...twelve?

remember something, not everyone who says I'm a Basketball player is a real one, lol.

And not everyone who claims to know what they're talking about when assembling a team does.

I have in my team 3 MVPs, 3 All Defense Players, 4 future Hall of Famers, those are super stars

Are they still though? No, they're old, feeble and wouldn't work together as a team. I don't see 3 MVPs? I see Shaq and The Admiral?

it's like you are telling me the 1st Dream Team was not good enough for your team, that's all crap, man.

If they didn't play as a team, they would lose.

who told you Artest can defend Pippen

Perhaps it's that Artest being one of the top five on the ball defenders in the league. Perhaps it's Pippen being around 37 years old.

or Webber or Shaq?

Who said Artest would guard either of them?

who said Duncan can even compare or stand in Shaq's way?

Duncan can match him offensively and defensively in terms of individual performance. I'm not playing one-on-one, I'm playing team-on-team. That's why I would win.

I'm serious, all you say makes me laugh so hard that I bet you are a comedian. If your not Bill Cosby, this subject has shown me your as good as him as a comedian, you have just said you will let Kurt Thomas Guard or play Shaq, lol

When did I say Shaq would be guarded by Kurt Thomas? Never. I'm a comedian? Yeah, I'm the comedian here. You're the one saying you don't need an offensive or defensive plan to win games. You just need to put old players who can't work as a team on the floor with Shaq and Webber and you'll win every game.

Seriously, be realistic and smert. Formulate an offense that can crack my defense, formulate a defense that can stop my offense. If you can't, your team has no chance because a team almost always beats individual players.

OK, if that's what you want. Check it out.

You have ron Artest, let me tell you I'm a New Yorker who knows artest more than you, who's coming from Queens & Saint John's, that guy might steal a ball but don't know how to drive it, so I take it back.

when Duncan (20.7 PPG) gets the Ball, Webber easily takes it from his slow hands and pass it to Van Exel who will shoot a 3 and get the foul from Andre Miller, A. Miller starts arguing and will get the Technical.

Van Exel will miss the free throw and Shaq easily will rebound it and Dunk on Duncan face who will get another foul. I'm up 7-0, and all the game will be like that, Duncan can't get over Webber, Never will and Never have, Artest is not moving cause Pippen is all over him, A. Miller is Double teamed and Loses the ball, my team has just won the game 169 - 33. Satisfied?, I told you, you're team is crap.

OK, if that's what you want. Check it out.

Check what out? You provided no plan, just a drug-induced fantasy.

You have ron Artest, let me tell you I'm a New Yorker who knows artest more than you

How do you know you know more than me? Maybe I'm from New York? Maybe I'm Ron Artests brother?

who's coming from Queens & Saint John's, that guy might steal a ball but don't know how to drive it, so I take it back.

He's a great on the ball defender, he's an ok shooter, and a fairly good scorer.

when Duncan (20.7 PPG) gets the Ball, Webber easily takes it from his slow hands

Duncan does not have slow hands.

and pass it to Van Exel who will shoot a 3

And more than often miss.

and get the foul from Andre Miller, A. Miller starts arguing and will get the Technical.

What? Miller would NEVER do that, that's not the player he is.

Van Exel will miss the free throw and Shaq easily will rebound it and Dunk on Duncan face who will get another foul.

Except. Duncan wouldn't be the only one there, Van Exel wouldn't get a four point play and Duncan wouldn't foul him if Shaq had great position.

I'm up 7-0, and all the game will be like that, Duncan can't get over Webber, Never will and Never have

Except for all the times he's done it, and he doesn't need to go OVER Webber, he has a jump shot and he's a terrific passer. Oh yeah, he's better than Webber. On both ends.

Artest is not moving cause Pippen is all over him

Except. Pippen's old, not as quick and weaker than Artest. Also, who says Artest is even in the game? Who says anyone you mention is?

A. Miller is Double teamed and Loses the ball

Wrong. He passes to the open man and an bucket is scored for my team. Then again, maybe Andre's not in the game? Maybe it's Barry? or Snow?

my team has just won the game 169 - 33. Satisfied?, I told you, you're team is crap.

God, rules be damned. You're looking like an idiot. You seem to know nothing about actually running a team, you just create what appear to be drug-induced fantasies about your team that's old, feeble, selfish, not very good defensively and has no plan beating a team that's young, unselfish, great defensively, has a plan, and will work as a team. This is why this forum is so bad at times, Greg and Eugene appear to be willing to actually discuss this intelligently and all you do is say "your team is crap, you don't need a plan, my nursing home squad will destroy it because i said so"

Be intelligent, don't be ignorant, post something useful for a change.

God, rules be damned. You're looking like an idiot. You seem to know nothing about actually running a team, you just create what appear to be drug-induced fantasies about your team that's old, feeble, selfish, not very good defensively and has no plan beating a team that's young, unselfish, great defensively, has a plan, and will work as a team. This is why this forum is so bad at times, Greg and Eugene appear to be willing to actually discuss this intelligently and all you do is say "your team is crap, you don't need a plan, my nursing home squad will destroy it because i said so"

who said Artest is quick?, YOU?, lol. if you're artest, let me tell you, YOU SUCK, lol. you are just talking like an idiot. You know what, you are just ignored by all cause all you say is come with offensive and defense, that's all I gave you and I won by more than 80 points over your team. Now, I don't need a plan, YOU need a plan, that's the exception here. You can't beat my team just talking crap, come with offense and defense, you need a plan to stop my guys or you go home for good. That's the league. Now I said and repeat, I just showed you, your team is not even able to play my bench, so don't try to be upset and let your Grizzlies play, that would be a good plan. lol

who said Artest is quick?, YOU?, lol.

Quicker than Pippen.

You know what, you are just ignored by all cause all you say is come with offensive and defense, that's all I gave you and I won by more than 80 points over your team.

You did not give me a realistic real life offensive and defensive plan, you gave me a drug-induced fantasy you pulled out of your ass.

Now, I don't need a plan, YOU need a plan, that's the exception here.

Every team needs a plan or it will be listing aimlessly and lose badly.

You can't beat my team just talking crap, come with offense and defense, you need a plan to stop my guys or you go home for good. That's the league.

I'm the one with the plan, you're the one with the brain-dead-induced fantasy

Now I said and repeat, I just showed you, your team is not even able to play my bench, so don't try to be upset and let your Grizzlies play, that would be a good plan. lol

YOU SHOWED ME NOTHING. Wait, actually you did. You showed me you have no knowledge of the actual game or you're just hiding it really well. People are ignoring me and this thread for a number of reasons. Either one, they can't come up with a plan, two, they don't care to have a discussion on basketball, three, they died from reading your posts when it gave them an aneurysm.

I'm about this close to asking Thug to make this a real discussion by deleting your ignorant unintelligent posts about your fantasies and editing out everything I foolishly said in reply to them in hopes of getting you to actually talk basketball and just leaving the stuff with Clinton, Eugene and Greg. Doesn't mean he'll do it, but you never know, he might be fighting on the side of justice.

As for my defensive scheme...

A motion offense like the one you described, Ben, although it utilizes all 5 players on the court, also relies on good ball and player movement. My defensive scheme, conversely, relies on disrupting ball movement as much as possible.

With a line up of Shaq, Michael, Jay, Brent, Yao, which I have no problem using extensively, I'll play man to man defense, but Shaq and Yao play zone. One or the other plays the further from the basket, which ever side the ball is on, that's the side that plays high post, with the weak side help from the other post.

When one of you perimeter players require a double team, and I'm betting that some will, although other than Duncan, none of them really command the double team, the nearest defender doubles. Everyone else plays the passing lanes and guards their nearest zones, however, these zones overlap will each other on the strong side, especially near the basket. A cutter will have to face at least two or three players on each trip.

For example, Jay Williams come over to double with Barry on the left wing. Williams does not pressure the ball, but cuts off the passing lanes and possible outlet and forces him toward the corner. Jordan, Shaq, Yao all shift into a zone that cuts off passing lanes. Should the ball go into the nearer corner, Jay Williams will recover enough to put a hand in the shooter's face or funnel him into Shaq. Even better, while Yao guards the high post, I'll use one of the long, quicker forwards like Battie or Harrington to move further out to cover the strong side corner.

This tactic is mostly used to distrupt ball movement and break the rhythm that is so crucial to the motion offense. It also crowds the paint, so it's not as easy to score from there.

The perimeter shooters will be covered as best as possible through the rotations, but the point is, we restrict ball movement, player movement, then we restrict the scoring. Very few players on your roster are adept at creating their own shots -- Barry, Van Horn, Harpring, Miller, all need help at creating shots, and Artest, Miller, Snow, Mason, aren't great scorers.

Because you put so much emphasis on the team, my defense focuses mostly on breaking that rhythm.

It's raw, still a work in progress. I don't know, maybe it'll one day be as effective as the Triangle Defense...

Until later...

Eugene