Bad Coaches

by **Oskar** on Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:45 pm

Talk about coaches who you don't like, or who don't fit to their team or whatever.

I don't like George Karl, he could turn his team much better, I am talking about chemistry, they got really talented players, but you see how it is going.
He should have traded JR away, he is a ball hog and.. not a team player, though none wants him.

by **Bruce** on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:22 pm

Woodson from atlanta, his team has got talent, they're playing in the east, yet the team is underachieving. Too bad the team owners are quarreling too much to fire him. Think about this, Philadelphia is doing much better than the Hawks.

And then there is Pat Riley, now Pat Riley I think is a HOF coach, but time has left him behind, And I think it is time that he should learn some new tricks. These days he reminds me a lot of Al Pacino's character on the movie "Any Given Sunday". Sometimes it is just so depressing to watch the Miami loose so much. Nobody could understand how a team that made it all the way just a couple of years back be the bottom feeder now.

And then there is Isiah Thomas, Who has probably emerged to be the worst motivator in NBA history. I mean, the only time the Knicks players are in it together is when they are bad mouthing Thomas to the press.

by **J@3** on Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:51 pm

I don't think there is such thing as a "bad" coach. It's not as if teams are hiring guys who call the ball a puck and think the field isn't brown enough. You have to seperate between actual player contribution and coaches contributions to a win or a loss. Look at Doc Rivers, he was torn apart anually and now that he has KG/Pierce/Allen they are suddenly the best team in the league.

by **el badman** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:14 am

Isiah Thomas
Isiah Thomas
and Isiah Thomas

by **Lamrock** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:30 am

Jae wrote:I don't think there is such thing as a "bad" coach. It's not as if teams are hiring guys who call the ball a puck and think the field isn't brown enough. You have to seperate between actual player contribution and coaches contributions to a win or a loss. Look at Doc Rivers, he was torn apart anually and now that he has KG/Pierce/Allen they are suddenly the best team in the league.

Same thing with Sam Mitchell. He was never considered a good coach until Toronto got really good.

However, some coaches really do suck. Flip Saunders is awful, and Isiah is pathetic.

by **Matt** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:33 am

Flip Saunders has been mostly inept in his time in Detroit.

George Karl runs the worst offense in the league....seriously, he has Carmelo & AI at his disposal and the teams offense is "your turn my turn"

Mike Brown mis-uses his players.....LBJ should be more off the ball, and Z should get more touches

by **GoHornets** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:11 am

Tym Floyd coaching new orleans
Paul Silas coaching cleveland

by **Indy** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:14 am

Paul Silas is a good coach.

George Karl has no control over Denver's offense whatsoever, in fact he's been an overrated coach his whole career. He's really only good at the off the court part of it with players. He has a very good personality with guys.

Mike Fratello was always a bad coach, but the league finally figured that out.

Quinn Buckner was the worst coach this league has ever seen though.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:32 am

mdertz wrote:And then there is Pat Riley, now Pat Riley I think is a HOF coach, but time has left him behind, And I think it is time that he should learn some new tricks. These days he reminds me a lot of Al Pacino's character on the movie "Any Given Sunday". Sometimes it is just so depressing to watch the Miami loose so much. Nobody could understand how a team that made it all the way just a couple of years back be the bottom feeder now.

There's no mystery there. Age, injuries, key players leaving and a lack of motivation after things went south this year have all contributed to the Heat's fall from NBA Champions to frontrunners in the lottery. They were a team that were built for a couple of runs and it yielded a championship. Miami's problems aren't the result of Riley's methods being outdated; there's not much Riley can do without a roster that's built to contend, healthy players or players who haven't given up on the season.

by **GoHornets** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:26 am

Who's Quinn Buckner????
Forgive me if is a stupid question :oops:

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:40 am

He's a former player who also had a brief stint coaching the Mavericks and is currently part of the Indiana Pacers' broadcast team.

by **BIG GREEN** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:22 pm

Bill russel and jackey moon

by **Bruce** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:35 pm

Andrew wrote:
mdertz wrote:And then there is Pat Riley, now Pat Riley I think is a HOF coach, but time has left him behind, And I think it is time that he should learn some new tricks. These days he reminds me a lot of Al Pacino's character on the movie "Any Given Sunday". Sometimes it is just so depressing to watch the Miami loose so much. Nobody could understand how a team that made it all the way just a couple of years back be the bottom feeder now.

There's no mystery there. Age, injuries, key players leaving and a lack of motivation after things went south this year have all contributed to the Heat's fall from NBA Champions to frontrunners in the lottery. They were a team that were built for a couple of runs and it yielded a championship. Miami's problems aren't the result of Riley's methods being outdated; there's not much Riley can do without a roster that's built to contend, healthy players or players who haven't given up on the season.

Well, I don't think injuries should cause a team to fall suddenly to last place. Second, the heat wasn't that depleted. I think the players left really because Riley is too pushy with regards to player conditioning. There have been countless times where his players are injured, because he pushes them too hard on practice.

by **benji** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:53 pm

Andrew wrote: Miami's problems aren't the result of Riley's methods being outdated; there's not much Riley can do without a roster that's built to contend

Although this certainly can be blamed on Riley anyway, since he is the Team President and continues to be the de facto guy in charge of assembling the roster.

by **---** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:10 pm

I don't think there is such thing as a "bad" coach.

Jim Boylan disagrees. :lol:

by **Fizdale** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:09 pm

+1 on Paul Silas.

Some In My Opinion:

Coach In Seattle Last Season
Eric Musselman
Scott Skiles
Mike Woodson
Isiah Tomas
Randy Wittman.

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:13 pm

mdertz wrote:Well, I don't think injuries should cause a team to fall suddenly to last place. Second, the heat wasn't that depleted. I think the players left really because Riley is too pushy with regards to player conditioning. There have been countless times where his players are injured, because he pushes them too hard on practice.

Their best player missed the first seven games of the season, during which point they went 1-6 to place them in a hole early on. Over the next couple of months, Mourning would be lost for the season, Shaq would miss extended periods (and when he was around, he certainly wasn't the player they traded for in 2004) and as far as their roster concerned, there was talent there but there were new faces and not the same calibre roster as the previous three years.

When has a player ever been injured because Riley pushed them too hard in practice? I could believe it has happened but I can't remember any specific examples that could solely be attributed to Riley's intense sessions. He probably does cut his note off to spite his face when he suspends players for not reaching certain goals as far as body fat are concerned but his approach to coaching has been pretty successful to say the least.

The Heat have fallen a long way from being NBA champions but there's reasons for that extend beyond Pat Riley, at least in terms of what he's doing on the sideline. As Ben noted, as team president he can be held responsible for assembling the current roster but that doesn't mean his coaching methods are no longer effective or applicable in today's league.

by **Bruce** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 12:32 am

Andrew wrote:When has a player ever been injured because Riley pushed them too hard in practice? I could believe it has happened but I can't remember any specific examples that could solely be attributed to Riley's intense sessions. He probably does cut his note off to spite his face when he suspends players for not reaching certain goals as far as body fat are concerned but his approach to coaching has been pretty successful to say the least.

It did, during Jabbar's last season in the NBA, the Lakers goes for an incredible 3 rounds undefeated, then came finals time. While waiting for their opponents from the east, Riley gets his player to practice in intense workouts . Eventually, Magic pulls a hamstring, and could not play in the finals. I think this was the 1990 finals. I apologize, but I haven't the luxury of time to search it for you. Recently, I was watching a post game interview of phil jackson describing his ties with Riley. And true enough, the interviewer goes on to ask him, as a player if PJ would ever consider playing for Riley. Of which, PJ responds with a grin and replies. "no". This is from a pre-game interview for a Lakers vs Portland game I think.

You can look up this article where about the 1990 NBA finals:
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19891990.html

The internet is tethered with quotes from Magic poking at Riley's "camp" before the 1990 playoff. Some say, it was this that cost them the finals. Magic also poked fun at this when Shaq was traded to the Heat, musing what shaq would use as an excuse to get out of Riley's sessions.

BIG GREEN wrote:Bill russel and jackey moon

If anybody here have seen the film "Semi-pro", I'd say Jackie Moon would make a better coach than Isiah. In a way that for all his ineptitude with X&O's, his players were always behind him. And I don't think Thomas can pull out singing "Love Me Sexy". And that fact that he had an offensive and defensive coordinator LOL, reminded me of Bird when he was coaching Indiana. :lol:

by **Skills** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:20 am

Lamrock is right.
Sam Mitchell sucked in first two years.
Then last year, it was a complete turnaround.
But you have to admit only one coach headlines this topic:
ISIAH THOMAS

Bluesky · by **Andrew** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:20 am

mdertz wrote:It did, during Jabbar's last season in the NBA, the Lakers goes for an incredible 3 rounds undefeated, then came finals time. While waiting for their opponents from the east, Riley gets his player to practice in intense workouts . Eventually, Magic pulls a hamstring, and could not play in the finals.

As I said, I can believe that it's happened at times but if that's the only example then it doesn't prove that Riley's practices are a bad idea. What about the thousands of sessions before that one that did not adversely affect the team and yielded four of their five championships in the 80s? Magic's injury is obviously significant given his importance to the team and the resulting sweep by the Pistons but that doesn't change the fact it is just one incident.

I'm not saying there's no connection but if Riley's methods were truly a bad idea, I think there'd be more examples of players suffering major injuries in his practices and his teams being frequently depleted.

mdertz wrote:The internet is tethered with quotes from Magic poking at Riley's "camp" before the 1990 playoff. Some say, it was this that cost them the finals. Magic also poked fun at this when Shaq was traded to the Heat, musing what shaq would use as an excuse to get out of Riley's sessions.

Indeed, a lot of former players do poke fun at Riley's approach and his methods aren't above criticism. But they haven't been a complete disaster either.

by **Laxation** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:49 pm

Thomas and Saunders FTW

by **SpaceFlare** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:10 pm

I believe there's not enough mention of Mike Woodson in this thread.

The Hawks have a lot of talent in their starting five and yet they are doing terribly in the Eastern Conference... which says a lot about their head coach I believe.

by **benji** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:13 pm

The Minnesota Timberwolves have a lot of talent too, so do the Miami Heat. Doesn't mean the talent is any good in comparison to the remainder of the league.

Josh Childress remains the only player I'd take from the Atlanta Hawks.

by **SpaceFlare** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:21 pm

benji wrote:Josh Childress remains the only player I'd take from the Atlanta Hawks.

I'm curious to know why you wouldn't want Josh Smith.

by **Lamrock** on Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:30 pm

There is probably an obscure statistic revealing that Joe Johnson, Mike Bibby, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and every other player on the roster barring Childress makes the team play horribly.

Bad Coaches

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