Chicago Bulls Thread

[puttincomputers]

oooo. that hurts! j/k! i agree its possible but when if ever did something happen like that?
my take- time for thabo to step it up.

[Andrew]

It doesn't seem to happen very often. Usually it's a case of team with a sub .500 record somehow managing to sneak into the postseason rather than the lopsided situation we're seeing in the Western Conference this year.

Good to see Gordon back with a 30+ point game but the result was the same. The silver lining remains that they're only a game and a half out of eighth place so a big run combined with the couple of teams immediately ahead of them remaining somewhat stagnant could see them salvage some respectability this season. Nevertheless, it's a very disappointing year for a team that looked like it could win 50 games and be one of the better teams in the conference despite the lack of a dominant post scorer.

[air gordon]

way to keep the thread alive, Andrew

imo- the season's done and over with. you got players tuning out the coach and vice versa. then the new coach comes along and players are tuning him out. you know it's the players running the show when Boylan decided to suspend Noah one game and then the players had a private meeting and decided that Noah should be suspended for 2 games

the Bulls are losing games again and once again i'm hearing in the post game "lack of energy & effort". same shit was going on when skiles was here before he got the axe

and the cherry on top was Gasol being traded for a bag of basketballs.

that was the deal Paxson had been positioning to make for the past few years. there's some speculation about luxury tax standing in the way of a potential Gasol deal happening but c'mon- the payroll's going to go through the roof with Wallace & Hinrich's contracts on the books and both Deng & Gordon up for extensions... which leads me to believe that Gordon won't be with the team next year

i don't want the bulls to make the playoffs if it's going to be as a 8th seed. play the young guys, because the future of the franchise depends on the development of Thabo, Tyrus, and Noah (how sad is that).

i don't even want to watch the games anymore. not only are they bad, they are boring to watch. they are not even worthy of taking space on my DVR.

actually my friends and I are planning to drive to Milwaukee to see Bucks games instead LOL. well at least when Boston pays a visit


the home and home against the T'wolves... that, my friends, was a preview of the NBA finals

and Indy, maybe if the Pacers were any good, Bulls fans would heckle you. who's going to give a shit about a shitty Pacers team w/o JO playing and a Pacers fan boy (in a game in the middle of the week no less)

[Indy]

and Indy, maybe if the Pacers were any good, Bulls fans would heckle you. who's going to give a shit about a shitty Pacers team w/o JO playing and a Pacers fan boy (in a game in the middle of the week no less)

I got heckled tenfold in the game we played in Chicago in the preseason- minus JO as well in that one. The Pacers weren't any good last year, and I got heckled plenty. Same with the year before, plenty of those games without JO.

Its weird, because post-Jordan, (as I like to call it, the Courtney Alexander/Superfan era) I got heckled plenty there.

[Andrew]

imo- the season's done and over with. you got players tuning out the coach and vice versa. then the new coach comes along and players are tuning him out. you know it's the players running the show when Boylan decided to suspend Noah one game and then the players had a private meeting and decided that Noah should be suspended for 2 games

the Bulls are losing games again and once again i'm hearing in the post game "lack of energy & effort". same shit was going on when skiles was here before he got the axe

What would you do if you were Paxson? Blowing it up and starting over is pretty drastic and trading players is easier said than done but beyond bringing in a more experienced coach there's not much else they can do except look at getting rid of some of the core players.

The Gasol trade was very disheartening though as I said in that thread I can't fault the Bulls for balking at giving up the rumoured packages involving two core players. If the Grizzlies had been asking for anything like they got from the Lakers then sure, there should be no hesitation but if it's players like Deng and Gordon a GM is probably going to have some more reservations. What was even more disheartening was the rumoured package of Noah and Thabo for Gasol with none of the other core players involved. If that was ever seriously on the table, the Bulls should have taken that.

[air gordon]

and Indy, maybe if the Pacers were any good, Bulls fans would heckle you. who's going to give a shit about a shitty Pacers team w/o JO playing and a Pacers fan boy (in a game in the middle of the week no less)

I got heckled tenfold in the game we played in Chicago in the preseason- minus JO as well in that one. The Pacers weren't any good last year, and I got heckled plenty. Same with the year before, plenty of those games without JO.

Its weird, because post-Jordan, (as I like to call it, the Courtney Alexander/Superfan era) I got heckled plenty there.

sorry to disappoint you, indy. you should write to the president of marketing for the bulls. let me know next time you pay a visit to the UC. doesn't even have to be a indy-bulls game. i'll be sure to heckle both you and ben wallace

andrew-
i'd quit if i were Paxson. seriously. this whole thing about instituting a winning culture was working/made sense until he brought in Ben Wallace. and to make matters worse- his supposed core players: Hinrich, Deng, Gordon turned out to be mental midgets. if it's true that Reinsdorf won't pay the luxury tax despite having a team that plays in a big market, it's definitely time to jump ship

if i were to stay on board- my first order of business would be to get rid of wallace. that would probably be my only drastic move. buyout/trade him to another team and agree to eat part of the salary/whatever.

then tell deng to sit out the rest of the season- he'll come back healthy next year and at the same time you get to drive down his value/be able to resign him cheap

before i do any other deals- i'd have to evaluate the young guys- thabo, noah, tyrus, even khryapa (sp). but probably i'd explore some deals involving trading Gordon to a contender who just may overpay for some scoring punch.

after that honestly have no clue. i should check the CBA to see what kind of obstacles id run into in order to trade Gordon/deng/hinrich. plus see who's on 1yr contracts, etc. its just frustrating thinking about the bulls. sorry i'll have cop out on this one

what about you? what would you do? who do you keep/trade?

[Andrew]

I wouldn't be so quick to get rid of Gordon and Deng but I'd consider moving Hinrich if a team wanted one of the core players included in a deal. I think the Bulls could make it work with Duhon and some de facto point guards. If anyone's interested in Noah, Thomas or Thabo I'd definitely listen. They've shown flashes and all have potential (and all those other buzzwords) but I'd take the risk.

I don't have anything specific in mind now that Gasol's off the table though. I'd have to play around with the trade checker over at RealGM.

[Drex]

There's this inside articel in espn.com about the Bulls trading for a Sixers PG. I hope it's Kevin Ollie.

[Andrew]

There was an article over at RealGM that mentioned a rumoured deal of Kirk Hinrich for Andre Miller. That seems like a lateral movement at best for both teams.

[Dan's Brain]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... e_khryapa/

Goodbye Viktor Khryapa. Now Tyrus is the only thing the Bulls have to show for trading LaMarcus Aldridge. Happy days.

Does this signal a deal?

[Indy]

sorry to disappoint you, indy. you should write to the president of marketing for the bulls. let me know next time you pay a visit to the UC. doesn't even have to be a indy-bulls game. i'll be sure to heckle both you and ben wallace

Why would I ever want to go to that shitbox if the Pacers weren't playing? Worst arena in all of sports. Except for Blackhawks games because I'm always plenty hammered to enjoy it then.

[Andrew]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/50761/20080207/bulls_waive_khryapa/

Goodbye Viktor Khryapa. Now Tyrus is the only thing the Bulls have to show for trading LaMarcus Aldridge. Happy days.

Does this signal a deal?

Quite possibly, if we're to believe the earlier rumours of a trade being a matter of when, not if, as well as buy into the speculation that the Gasol and Shaq trades will open the floodgates for anyone else considering making a move before the deadline.

[Dan's Brain]

I'm predicting Jermaine rumours, Zach Randolph rumours, Ron Artest rumours, Charlie V rumours and Drew Gooden rumours this year.

[The X]

I'm predicting Jermaine rumours, Zach Randolph rumours, Ron Artest rumours, Charlie V rumours and Drew Gooden rumours this year.

none of those players will end up in Chicago....

whilst I've been very open in my damnation of the Bulls' moves in previous years (trading for Ty Thomas even though Aldridge was perfect fit, signing Ben Wallace, trading Chandler for nothing, not trading for Gasol), IMHO I don't think it's worth blowing it up....

Some ideas:
#1: Trade Ben Wallace. Doesn't matter what you get for him, doesn't matter at all. Trade him for nothing, throw in some cash. Just get him out.
#2: Work out if Deng & Gordon are the future of your organisation. They're due for paydays at end of season. Although they've both had down years, a couple of teams will still pay for them. I'd like to see Gordon dealt out the two, but that's just me. Better to trade them now than lose them for nothing. I'm thinking that they're restricted free agents, so they should be able to match.
#3: Do not trade Noah or Thabo unless the deal greatly improves team for future. I'm a big fan of both players.
#4: If Hinrich has any value, consider trading him. Otherwise, hold onto him & hopefully next season his play &/or his value around the league increases.
#5: Do not trade Tyrus Thomas. He's still got a bucketload of potential. He's got hardly any value so they may as well keep him.
#6: Do not trade Nocioni. He has steel balls.
#7: Find new coach in off-season. Maybe a coach that brings a complete different style & culture. Not sure who, but hopefully a coach that promotes ball movement.

[Andrew]

1. Definitely agreed, as long as it doesn't involve throwing in another core player or someone like Noah/Thabo/Tyrus to get the deal done. Wallace was a blunder but it's not worth giving away another core player for nothing to get him off the team. I'd rather see a buyout before that.

2. A lot of people are very quick to give up Gordon because of his size and the fact he is not a great defensive force but I'm not convinced Deng is necessarily any less expendable. I would prefer the Bulls explore trade options with other core players before sending those two players packing.

3. As I said before, I would have done Noah and Thabo for Gasol in a heartbeat. They've both got potential but on a young team like this, I'd trade a little of the potential for someone who's established, particularly a post scorer who could make things easier for Deng and Gordon and above all, give them some threat down low. I'd gamble Noah and Thabo's upside on an All-Star calibre big man, particularly one who's only 27 himself.

4. Risky as it might be, Hinrich is the player I'd trade first and foremost. He's a good defender and he can score but while he's not a selfish player or bad passer as such, his decision making remains highly suspect for a team's starting point guard. I'd rather have Gordon at the shooting guard since he packs more of a scoring punch and a bigger point guard next to him, or forego a natural point guard in the backcourt in favour of having a point forward up front.

5. I'd still trade that potential for someone more established. That's not to say he should just be given away but if a can't-miss deal comes along, Thomas shouldn't be a deal breaker.

6. Keeping Nocioni is definitely preferable but again, if a can't-miss deal is on the table then giving him up would at least have to be considered. He's got the heart and grit on top of everything else but he's still not untradeable if the price is right.

7. Absolutely. No names come to mind but they basically need to get away from anyone with a Scott Skiles mentality and someone who has a few more ideas than "move Gordon to the bench". Not that has been a terrible idea of course, but if that's your big move then where do you go from there? That's probably a little harsh seeing as Boylan is only there on an interim basis but he doesn't strike me as the right choice beyond this season.

[The X]

1. Definitely agreed, as long as it doesn't involve throwing in another core player or someone like Noah/Thabo/Tyrus to get the deal done. Wallace was a blunder but it's not worth giving away another core player for nothing to get him off the team. I'd rather see a buyout before that.

2. A lot of people are very quick to give up Gordon because of his size and the fact he is not a great defensive force but I'm not convinced Deng is necessarily any less expendable. I would prefer the Bulls explore trade options with other core players before sending those two players packing.

3. As I said before, I would have done Noah and Thabo for Gasol in a heartbeat. They've both got potential but on a young team like this, I'd trade a little of the potential for someone who's established, particularly a post scorer who could make things easier for Deng and Gordon and above all, give them some threat down low. I'd gamble Noah and Thabo's upside on an All-Star calibre big man, particularly one who's only 27 himself.

4. Risky as it might be, Hinrich is the player I'd trade first and foremost. He's a good defender and he can score but while he's not a selfish player or bad passer as such, his decision making remains highly suspect for a team's starting point guard. I'd rather have Gordon at the shooting guard since he packs more of a scoring punch and a bigger point guard next to him, or forego a natural point guard in the backcourt in favour of having a point forward up front.

5. I'd still trade that potential for someone more established. That's not to say he should just be given away but if a can't-miss deal comes along, Thomas shouldn't be a deal breaker.

6. Keeping Nocioni is definitely preferable but again, if a can't-miss deal is on the table then giving him up would at least have to be considered. He's got the heart and grit on top of everything else but he's still not untradeable if the price is right.

7. Absolutely. No names come to mind but they basically need to get away from anyone with a Scott Skiles mentality and someone who has a few more ideas than "move Gordon to the bench". Not that has been a terrible idea of course, but if that's your big move then where do you go from there? That's probably a little harsh seeing as Boylan is only there on an interim basis but he doesn't strike me as the right choice beyond this season.

1. Yep, I would agree that you can't give up a core player in deal.

2. They're both up for money at end of year, so I'm just meaning that they should make their decision if they want to pay both of them. Either way, there could be a sign-and-trade in off-season anyways.

3. Could the Bulls seriously have gotten Gasol for those 2 players?!? If so, they were crazy not to do it. As much as I like them both, I don't believe neither can be stars, or anything more than good pieces or good role players, to the team. When I said not to trade them, I didn't mean under any circumstances. As you said, you wouldn't throw them into a Big Ben deal to get rid of Wallace, or you wouldn't package them in to a deal that doesn't net them an All-Star calibre player.

4. You'd have to package him with one of young guys to get value back. For some reason, I think Miami would like to have a PG playing next to Wade & Marion, but I think Bulls would be silly to strengthen a competitor, unless it strengthened them more.

5. I'd agree, depends on his perceived value. He must still have some value around the League based on potential. A trade ala the Kwame for Butler deal is what you'd hope for as a Bulls' fan to be equivalent if trading Ty Thomas. That's a can't-miss deal.

6. I'd like to see him traded to Bucks. Bucks need that sort of toughness alongside Yi Bulls can get Villaneuva Although I don't think that's would be the direction that the Bulls would want to go.

7. Yep, I couldn't think of any names but there must be someone around. Even if it's an ex-player like Mario Elie. But I think they might go away from an ex-player this time. As long as it isn't JVG

[Andrew]

Whether or not that deal for Gasol was seriously discussed is open to speculation but apparently the Bulls were one of the other teams that was trying hard to get Gasol and reportedly were offering Nocioni and Thomas. The Grizzlies reportedly wanted Noah and Thabo and we were willing to forego any core players in contrast to the rumoured talks last season. If the Grizzlies were serious about that then Paxson blew a golden opportunity that was ultimately seized by Mitch Kupchak. Of course, that could only be talk and Memphis might have ultimately preferred the Lakers' offer for the cap relief.

[Ashman23]

Without actually watching any games , it seems as though the issues at the moment are Wallace and possibly Hinrich? If Duhon played PG and the team dealt Wallace and Hinrich, who could we get?

Personally, I'd like to see the season out with what we have, play the younger guys and try a deal in the summer or FA and whether there's a lottery pick coming our way to sort out the team.

Would Jermaine O'neal fit into the line-up?

[Andrew]

In recent years I would say yes but he's injured again (and currently on the shelf) and he hasn't exactly had a great season when he has been on the court, so I'd be very wary of overpaying for him. The problem is, even if Indiana is looking to move him simply getting Ben Wallace and filler is hardly much of an incentive. Ben Wallace and Kirk Hinrich to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal and Jeff Foster is the easiest cap-friendly swap but I don't see the Pacers making that deal so I highly doubt it would happen.

An interesting idea I saw at RealGM today is Wallace for Kirilenko; I'd definitely do that deal if I were Paxson. Mind you, I'd take it with a grain of salt as it could just be Sam Smith speculating, I'm not sure that cap relief would be enough of an incentive for Utah.

[air gordon]

sorry to disappoint you, indy. you should write to the president of marketing for the bulls. let me know next time you pay a visit to the UC. doesn't even have to be a indy-bulls game. i'll be sure to heckle both you and ben wallace

Why would I ever want to go to that shitbox if the Pacers weren't playing? Worst arena in all of sports. Except for Blackhawks games because I'm always plenty hammered to enjoy it then.

ok, hyperbole. guess you haven't been to milwaukee. not only does the city suck and the weather suck- even the stadium food sucks there

exactly what kind of coach do you guys want? you're seeing the anti-skiles guy right now and look who's running the team- the players. skiles wouldn't put up with the shit going on, let alone any decent nba coach. maybe we don't see Thabo playing like he is now but then again if hinrich and gordon don't get hurt... even if skiles was an ass- thabo should have been mentally tougher. and skiles offense did stress good ball movement btw

no one on the roster is untouchable. trading gordon makes the most sense to me- he ideally is a 6th man but either him or his agent or both want starter salary and be a starter. his size is a big factor because it's pretty damn hard to find a big guard who can handle & defend to pair him with. though if you trade him- you better damn get a scorer back

[Andrew]

Anti-Skiles is probably the wrong way to put it, since Boylan isn't likely to get the job done long-term (or short-term for that matter) but I still think we've seen the extent of what Skiles can do with this team. I think they need a coach who commands respect without alienating his players or resorting to the same old measures (bench the starters, change the rotations every other game) to win games. A veteran coach who's had some success in the NBA, to put it simply.

No names come immediately to mind though. Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Fratello are two names that come to mind, though I wouldn't consider either ideal.

no one on the roster is untouchable. trading gordon makes the most sense to me- he ideally is a 6th man but either him or his agent or both want starter salary and be a starter. his size is a big factor because it's pretty damn hard to find a big guard who can handle & defend to pair him with. though if you trade him- you better damn get a scorer back

That's my concern about trading Gordon (aside from the bias of being a fan of his); he obviously has his shortcomings but he's the only 20 ppg scorer they've had in years. As you said, if he's to be traded then there better be someone coming the other way who can at least pack the same scoring punch.

[Dan's Brain]

A veteran coach who's had some success in the NBA, to put it simply.

How does this sound then?

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... rry_brown/

[Andrew]

He fits that criteria but since he doesn't like to play young players, there's no way the Bulls could field a team without overhauling the roster. Brown's had success, no question, but his stint in New York makes me skeptical. It's not so much the win-loss record but rather incidents like not wanting to meet with Ariza when he asked if they could talk about his role on the team. Unless he's willing to alter his stance on playing young players or considers the Bulls' young core "old enough" since most of them at least have three or four seasons under their belt, it doesn't seem like a good fit.

If it happens though, obviously I'll be hoping for the best.

[Ashman23]

I would hate to see Larry Brown as the coach. I'd love to see someone like Scottie Pippen have a go, but I reckon he'd struggle with players not being up to his high standards.

[Andrew]

As much as I like Pippen, I think the Bulls would be better off with a more experienced coach. Rick Carlisle is another name that could be thrown out there but I'm not sure about him either.