EPIC FAIL: The 2008 Democratic Presidental Primary Thread

[benji]

I have intent to create a Republican counterpart so that each of the major American political parties have their own thread for the primaries. Then come general election they get one delicious thread.

That said, the Republican one is boring as all fuck so when I create it may be a week from now or more. Someone else can make if it they wish before I do.

And we're off...
Clinton proposes giving all babies $5000

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that every child born in the United States should get a $5,000 "baby bond" from the government to help pay for future costs of college or buying a home.

Clinton, her party's front-runner in the 2008 race, made the suggestion during a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus.

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time, so that when that young person turns 18 if they have finished high school they will be able to access it to go to college or maybe they will be able to make that downpayment on their first home," she said.

The New York senator did not offer any estimate of the total cost of such a program or how she would pay for it. Approximately 4 million babies are born each year in the United States.

...

"I think it's a wonderful idea," said Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, an Ohio Democrat who attended the event and has already endorsed Clinton. "Every child born in the United States today owes $27,000 on the national debt, why not let them come get $5,000 to grow until their 18?"

Just the five grand will clearly cost $20 billion a year, let alone administration costs. And here I was ready with a joke after seeing this.
McGovern Set to Endorse Clinton

ABC News has learned that former South Dakota Sen. George McGovern, the 1972 Democratic presidential nominee, is planning to endorse the presidential campaign of Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., in Iowa City, Iowa, Saturday, Oct. 6.

The Clinton campaign declined to comment. Reached by phone in Mitchell, S.D., in the midst of getting a haircut at the OK Barber Shop, the 85-year-old World War II veteran was coy with ABC News, saying he wouldn't confirm the news though he allowed he was "leaning that way."

McGovern wanted, of course, to give $1,000 to every citizen before changing it to a guaranteed $6,500 income. (This was 1972 obviously.)

Edwards: 'Pretty Soon We’re Not Going to Have a Young African-American Male Population in America.'

We start with the president of the United States saying to America, "We cannot build enough prisons to solve this problem." And the idea that we're just going to keep incarcerating, keep incarcerating--pretty soon, we're not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They're all going to be in prison--or dead, one of the two.

[shadowgrin]

Clinton proposes giving all babies $5000

Is she nuts? That would just give an excuse for ' financially unprepared' parents to churn out babies by the dozens and also speed up overpopulation which can have negative effects on the economy of the US.

we're not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They're all going to be in prison--or dead, one of the two.

Not really. Thank god for basketball.

[Oznogrd]

Clinton proposes giving all babies $5000

Is she nuts? That would just give an excuse for ' financially unprepared' parents to churn out babies by the dozens and also speed up overpopulation which can have negative effects on the economy of the US.

we're not going to have a young African-American male population in America. They're all going to be in prison--or dead, one of the two.

Not really. Thank god for basketball.

Agreed with the first part, and reasoning like that is even if i cant vote republican cuz of my stances on issues, i will not vote for hilary. Nader ftw.

Also dont forget Football and baseball on saving our young African American friends

[benji]

It looks like the $5,000 plan may be slightly different than previously reported. That every child born would have a $5,000 "account" created. They would not be able to withdraw it (and the compound interest) until they were past 18 and had served in the military or another national service. And then it could only be spent on education, housing or starting a business.

I guess that other fascist Rick Santorum (former Sen-R-PA) has proposed a similar program. And that something with one less zero was proposed in California. (Sorry, did not bother to look for a news article, found this quicker.)

even if i cant vote republican cuz of my stances on issues, i will not vote for hilary. Nader ftw.

If you had to pick a Democrat in the field, or perhaps an abnormal Republican (Paul or Rudy?) who would you choose?

[Patr1ck]

Well, as long as the parents can't touch the kids money, otherwise I can just see crackwhores popping out babies to use the money on more crack until they need another 5 grand. Also, what happens to the money when the kid dies before reaching 18? How much does the "national debt" go up before it starts going down?

[The X]

over here they have a $4,000 baby bonus (will be $5,000 in a years time) that is given to the parents on the birth of each child....it is suppose to subsidise the mother being out of work, the extra costs incurred, nappies, some towards child's future education....

only downside to is it promotes some of the not so ideal people churning out babies, then heading down & buying big TV's & other electronics....

[Oznogrd]

If you had to pick a Democrat in the field, or perhaps an abnormal Republican (Paul or Rudy?) who would you choose?

For Dems, as inexperienced as he is I'd consider Obama or almost anyone without diarrhea of the mouth over Hil. I of course before election day will research the issues and see each candidate stance and make a decision then, but as for now, i couldnt really say since i havent done the appropriate research. Maybe a little later I will since i have a pretty open Saturday

As for a republican i would vote for, it'd have to be John McCain. He stands on the same side as me on most of the things i disagree with republicans with. However recently he has seen seem to go from straight shooter anti politician to just like everyone else so I'm not sure...its eerily like McGovern in 1972 (i know so many details of that election thanks to hunter thompson's book) who could've upset Nixon if he had kept his "anti-politican" view in the public eye, but when controversy arose around him, he sounded just like everyone else talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[[Q]]

I say we can't go wrong with picking Obama or Clinton for the next president. I'd prefer Obama wayyy over Clinton, but I think it'll be a nice change.

[Oznogrd]

I say we can't go wrong with picking Obama or Clinton for the next president. I'd prefer Obama wayyy over Clinton, but I think it'll be a nice change.

Gotta disagree Q, if Hil actually tries to implement all her plans she's been announcing, this country is in deep deep trouble. We dont have ways to pay for, the support from citizens, or the even the ability to get things through congress enough to pull off all the things she wants to do. Isnt her Iraq plan something like 90 days? as much as i may agree with getting out, i also have logic in my brain that tells me its not feasible in 90 days. There's nothing wrong with ideals: thats how revolutionary things happen. However you cant run a country on ideals: you have to take a look at the ideal, make it realistic, and do the best you can...and i'm not so sure if Hil will do that....

[benji]

only downside to is it promotes some of the not so ideal people churning out babies, then heading down & buying big TV's & other electronics....

There's also the following downsides:
-$20+ billion extra in government expenditures every year
-Another entitlement
-That $20+ billion has to come from other citizens, the government can't just create more money (well, it can, but you know what I mean)

For Dems, as inexperienced as he is I'd consider Obama or almost anyone without diarrhea of the mouth over Hil.

Well, that would eliminate pretty much the entire Democratic field. Obama has his share of stupid comments (there was that one about how genocide in Iraq is an acceptable result of withdrawl, for example), but he is no Richardson, Edwards, or John Kerry. Biden is the ultimate diarrhea of the mouth candidate. (But he's also the only reasonable one on foreign policy, save Iraq. Take the good with the bad.)

As for a republican i would vote for, it'd have to be John McCain. He stands on the same side as me on most of the things i disagree with republicans with.

I love when people say this. Especially all my friends with BDS. McCain is exactly same as Bush on 95% of issues. He just cultivates this "maverick" image in the media, and picks random times to turn against the leadership to "compromise" with Democrats when they run the Senate. He was never really an "anti-politican", he's an almost perfect example of a politican. That's why that anti-freedom-of-speech Campaign Finance Reform has his name on it.

its eerily like McGovern in 1972 (i know so many details of that election thanks to hunter thompson's book) who could've upset Nixon

Yeah, I do not think I would go that far at all. Or cite Thompson's book in that regard. McGovern never had a chance with the platform he ran on.

Isnt her Iraq plan something like 90 days? as much as i may agree with getting out, i also have logic in my brain that tells me its not feasible in 90 days.

No, where Clinton is reasonable, it is on Iraq. She's already said troops will be there through her first term. As insane as she is, she's not that insane. She knows she would get the blame for any post-withdrawl disaster.

Where she is unresonable is on everything else. The problem with Hillary is the corruption of the Clintons (Sandy fucking Berger is advising her and would be back in a White House with her...*shakes head*), and her rampart authoritarianism.

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton

"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president." - Hillary Clinton

"We can’t afford to have that money go to the private sector. The money has to go to the federal government because the federal government will spend that money better than the private sector will spend it." - Hillary Clinton

"Too many people have made too much money." - Hillary Clinton

In 2004 Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) urged us to think about children’s entertainment “from a public health perspective.” In that light, she said, “exposing our children to so much of this unchecked media is a kind of contagion,” a “silent epidemic” that threatens “long-term public health damage to many, many children and therefore to society.”

"Fairness doesn't just happen. It requires the right government policies." - Hillary Clinton

"The unfettered free market has been the most radically destructive force in American life in the last generation." - Hillary Clinton

"The Fascist views the concept of the individual, (and all the ancillary assumed rights that come with the notion,) as misleading, dangerous and ultimately destructive to the body of the citizenry." - American Fascist Party platform
"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." - Hillary Clinton

[el badman]

No, where Clinton is reasonable, it is on Iraq.

No, that's where she fucked up. She's forced to flip flop now that it's pretty much a disaster, but she still does not admit that it was an error of judgement on her part in the first place, which it was, like for anyone who thought it'd be a great idea to invade Iraq.
If only he could have been as hyped as the other two, Richardson would have actually been the best candidate to choose, he's a great governor, unfortunately it's not gonna happen.

[benji]

If only he could have been as hyped as the other two, Richardson would have actually been the best candidate to choose, he's a great governor, unfortunately it's not gonna happen.

That's laughable. The guy has been horrendous in the debates, and in speeches. If he was sober in them, it makes it even worse. He makes John Kerry seem coherent.

And his latest plan is the final nail in the coffin for his worthless campaign. He wants to immediately pull the troops out of Iraq and leave equipment behind. The rest of his plan includes redploying troops in the region to their 1991 locations. (You know, the ones that pissed off Osama in the first place.) The most irrational foreign policy plan since 2004. He clearly cannot be President.

No, that's where she fucked up. She's forced to flip flop now that it's pretty much a disaster, but she still does not admit that it was an error of judgement on her part in the first place, which it was, like for anyone who thought it'd be a great idea to invade Iraq.

She understands that because things have not gone as well as we would have liked post-invasion that does not logically make the invasion wrong. She was in the White House for eight years of war with Saddam, she knows it was the right thing to do post-9/11 to support the policy her husband signed to remove him from power. And she understands that leaving Iraq in a rush would be a real disaster. That's why she already said she does not foresee troops being gone from Iraq in her first term. She's easily one of the most logical and rational candidates in this regard.

...

Thought I'd provide a series of these...

Quick Summary of Iraq plans as noted on campaign websites:

Hillary Clinton: Against Bush; will end "war" while President; residual force; has her own piece of legislation

Barack Obama: Withdraw all troops within a year; create a new constitution with UN help; create regional security compact with Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc. through "diplomatic surge"

John Edwards: Immediately withdraw 50,000 troops and all within nine months; require troops to be ready; peace conference including Syria and Iran; train Iraqis

Bill Richardson: Remove all troops as quickly as possible; leave equipment behind to Iraqis; "diplomatic surge"; deauthorize war and defund it; redeploy troops to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Afghanistan; involve Syria and Iran in conference (modeled on Dayton) to create Muslim "peacekeeping" force; have wealthy Arab neighbors pay for Iraq reconstruction

Joe Biden: Federalize Iraq, modeled on Dayton-Bosnia plan; share oil revenues; convene international conference; enforce regional non-aggression pact; responsibly drawdown US troops ( (maintain residual force); increase reconstruction assistance and create a jobs program

Chris Dodd: Withdraw all troops by April 2008; hold a regional summit

Dennis Kucinich: First of all, his site is an epic fail to navigate; Withdraw all troops and US contractors; regional conference including Iran and Syria; UN "peacekeeping" force replacing US forces; national conference with UN to resolve Iraqi grievances; reconstruction; reparations to Iraqis; price controls on food and energy; Iraqi National Oil Trust; Establish a policy of truth and reconciliation between the people of the United States and the people of Iraq. (whatever the hell that is)

Mike Gravel: Immediately withdraw all US troops by Christmas; diplomacy

[benji]

Bumped, for Theocracy Watch. Nobody campaigns from the pulpit like the Democratic Party.

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics," Obama said. "Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power's sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God."

He finished his brief remarks by saying, "We're going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth."

The Democratic presidential candidate said God "is with us and he wants us to do the right thing," including breaking down the divisions between Democrats and Republicans and among religions.

When people work together, he said, there is "nothing that can stop us because that's God's intention."

Anyway, this thread is pretty much over if the polls are to be believed. Especially that WaPo one.

[Oznogrd]

not really surprised by the poll result, ever since Dubya was declared the winner on the election of his second term people have been saying "Hilary '08" I just truly wonder how many people will be brought in and driven away by the nod to her. If it tips one way or the other, this is a big move but i'm thinking they might just cancel each other out. People are lazy and rather than vote and have to fill out a couple sheets of paper, they say "enh, i'll agree with america"...I think my friends little sister said it best:
"You know, if you could text your vote for President, i bet the election would have more votes than American Idol"

[Sauru]

i know i am being purely selfish here and all but if any of the presidential hopefulls come out and say they are going to do thier best to reverse that piece of shit bill that bans internet gambling then they will get my vote.

[benji]

I would do my best to repeal that bill.

[Sauru]

wait wait wait, are we in agreement again or am i mistaken?

[TheMC5]

Nobody campaigns from the pulpit like the Democratic Party.

Except for, you know, the Republican party.

[benji]

o rly? compare/contrast media reports of candidates campaigning from the pulpit plzkthxbye.

[Jugs]

over here they have a $4,000 baby bonus (will be $5,000 in a years time) that is given to the parents on the birth of each child....it is suppose to subsidise the mother being out of work, the extra costs incurred, nappies, some towards child's future education....

only downside to is it promotes some of the not so ideal people churning out babies, then heading down & buying big TV's & other electronics....

Yeah i was sitting on a bus once and this dickhead was talking to his mate about how he got his tattoo fixed up and new $200 shoes and was having a hissy fit about how some baby equipment thing cost $800.

[Sauru]

since i had my baby i have had to give up many things and not a single one of them i regret. i knew going in that a baby costs alot of money, i mean the diapers alone, i totally underestimated the diaper usage thats for sure. anyway, i cant stand people who put themselves before thier new born

[benji]

NBA player/gm/coach political donations, 2008 cycle, presidental candidates:
Hillary Clinton:
David Stern - $2,300
Alonzo Mourning - $1,000

Barack Obama:
Josh Childress - $2,300
Marvin Williams - $1,000
Baron Davis - $2,300
Phil Jackson - $2,300
Stephon Marbury - $2,300
Grant Hill - $2,300
Billy King - $2,300

John Edwards:
Jim O'Brien - $1,000

[shadowgrin]

Obama is on the money train.
Stephon Marbury donating, I wonder if it's a good or bad thing for Obama's campaign.

[benji]

I think Billy King would the be the one to worry about most.

[shadowgrin]

Good point.
Something bad usually happens when Billy King gives money. Just look at some of the Sixers contracts.