Now I understand what EA is doing with Live. (Long)

[The Reason]

Live 08 is going to make 2k8 look so lastgen.

NBA Live for Xbox360 is the deepest five on five basketball videogame on the market right now and possibly ever. Generally, everyone has been impressed with the way NBA2K7 looks, with its numerous canned “signature style” animations, and believe that Visual Concepts put in a lot more work in recreating the NBA experience than EA. However, this year’s edition of Live is superior to 2kgames’ NBA2K7 in the way it recreates an NBA experience. The game is way deeper than 2K7. I recommend that you give this game a chance and ignore the reviews you’ve seen on IGN and Gamespot, especially if you’re a hardcore basketball fan that really understands the game and doesn’t mind having a bit of a learning curve or adjusting a few sliders.

This game is tremendously deep. Each player is rated in four times as many rating categories than in NBA2K7. We’re talking categories like first step, max speed, ballcarrier speed, screen setting, fast break anticipation, shooter’s mentality, triple threat effectiveness, offensive post footwork, scoring with contact, tipins/putbacks, layup ability as well as a separate rating for layup in traffic, layup/drunk aggressiveness, and teamwork. This plethora of player ratings is no doubt a result of having added processing resources to use in the next gen hardware. This means that player’s abilities and tendencies are recreated very well. In NBA2K7, Tracy McGrady is the same player as Kobe Bryant, save for a few canned animations, but real basketball purists know that this is not nearly the case and it takes more than unique jumper animations to distinguish the two. Play against a computer controlled team in Live 07 and you’ll be amazed at how closely the players resemble their real life counterparts in their play on the court. Play against the 76ers and Allen Iverson will always jam the passing lanes and come up with steals with his gangly arms as well as always leading the fast break and getting quick scores. Watch the Cavs and Lebron will go to work making difficult shots and athletic moves in the paint. Watch the Lakers and Kobe Bryant will own his man out of the triple threat. Late in the game expect the Lakers to get the ball in Kobe’s hands as he is rated 92 as a goto guy and will hit those key shots to break the game open. Kobe is also apt to occasionally making difficult fadeaway shots with a man guarding him very tightly which he wouldn’t be able to do in NBA2K7 because in 2K7 good defensive pressure on one player is just as good as good defensive pressure on another. Anyone that’s watched Kobe perform on the court in real life knows better. The fact that Kobe’s player model and jumper animation is recreated much more faithfully in Live 07 than in NBA2K7 is just icing on the cake.

Each player’s style of play and tendencies within NBA Live 07 are recreated much more faithfully because of the rating system. While everyone is impressed with how NBA2K7 has so many different custom animations than Live 07, each player in NBA2K7 is a drone when controlled by the computer or even when player controlled. The rating system is not deep enough to distinguish each player in a sport where individual tendencies are so unique in every way imaginable. Real purists will appreciate how well each player is recreated in the way that they play within a game rather than with a few canned animations. I think the guys at EA did a lot more work and watched a lot more tapes than the guys at Visual Concepts and I’m disappointed that so many of the reputed critics from certain websites gave up on the game so quickly as to overlook all of this.

A key element that NBA2K series does not do well in distinguishing one player from another, that Live 07 does extremely well, is in ball handling abilities in that it’s way too easy to put the ball on the floor and do what you want against a defender. Essentially, Isomotion is way overpowered. This has been a huge downfall in the 2K series as I had pointed it out previously in a review I did for NBA2K4 for Gamefaqs. This particular flaw in NBA2K series is exacerbated by the fact that defenders just don’t play very good one on one defense while in Live the computer seems much more apt to shut you down one on one and make you play real team basketball. NBA2K completely ignores ball physics when dribbling and allows the player to dribble freely with a defender in his face. It’s way too easy to change directions when handling the ball and get by a defender and dribble in traffic. Performing a crossover in NBA2K7 is as easy as holding the triggers and wiggling the joystick. The fact that the player has to handle a basketball isn’t much of a factor in slowing him down and Allen Iverson’s ball handling in NBA2K7 isn’t really different from say Jason Williams in that they both handle the ball well and can break a defender down one on one equally as well. That’s just ridiculous. It just turns into a one on one fest and that is the way the NBA2K series has always been since they introduced Isomotion. Sure defenders rotate over to help out now compared to earlier editions but basketball for all but the best players should work out of shoot first, pass next, then dribble last because of the fact that it should be very difficult to get by an NBA defender. And even if the defender is able to step in the way of a dribble drive, they just stand there and don’t offer any type of push or pressure. Even the best ball handler in the game, Allen Iverson, only gets by his defender maybe half the time that he even tries to. Though those times he does get by his man he usually ends up on the highlight reel making it look like he does it all the time. While it is great for casual gamers to be able to so easily get into the game, real basketball purists know that even most NBA guards shouldn’t spend too much time trying to break their man down one on one and should look to pass the ball around.

In NBA Live 07, handling the ball as Allen Iverson or Kobe Bryant is finally an asset when compared to other players because of their high ratings in ballcarrier speed, first step, triple threat effectiveness, and many others that distinguish them from other players. At the same time, the defenders will actually be able to contain an Iverson sometimes forcing missed shots or making them pass the ball. More of their points will come from doing things like making the right cuts and getting out on the fast break than compared to NBA2K7. As I mentioned previously, these high caliber players are also apt to make difficult shots even though they are well guarded, especially during key moments, which is not going to happen in NBA2K7. But more importantly, you’ll notice that their teammates actually move without the ball intelligently and within their own abilities and tendencies. That’s the way it should be. This just makes Live 07 that much deeper than NBA2K7 and does it in a much better way than a few canned animations that look good in short videoclips but don’t do much for the flow of an entire game.

While it has been reported that NBA2K7 looks better in motion, I would have to go against that. Each has their strengths and weaknesses but Live looks a little better in motion, mostly due to what the players do without the ball. NBA2K7 does have great moments, such as watching any of the silky smooth canned animations, and runs in a higher framerate than NBA Live, which is nice for watching the jerseys and shorts swish around (which is an effect that is a bit overused in NBA2K7 by the way). NBA2K7 actually suffers more from players sliding on the court. There is just too much of a canned nature about the way the players move, like each movement is just an animation triggered one after the other. More importantly, there is almost no consequence for bumping into another player. The players just don’t seem to have the weight the players in Live 07 have. The players in Live move with more variety in animations, especially off the ball, creating a much more authentic and dynamic look. Although Live has been criticized for overusing the backdown animation (it does look awkward at times and it’s one big blemish in the visual presentation), the ball handlers in NBA2K7 tend to show the ball too much and that’s just not what NBA players would do. Live has also always been criticized for ball handlers “bumping into” defenders. There has to be a consequence for a ball handler dribbling straight into another defender. The defender should push back, that’s just how defense is played, and NBA2K7 completely neglects this to have a game that seems to flow more smoothly. Watch an NBA game and I don’t think you’ll ever see a player try to dribble or drive through someone without the defender pushing back. You just have to learn to handle the ball the right way to get by in Live. You have to learn to work out of the triple threat and you have to use the crossover moves sparingly. Yet, moving onto some downfalls of Live 07’s visual presentation, a major flaw is that players dunk through the backboard. EA should get this right next year because it is a bit of an eyesore. Another thing I noticed is that although Shaq plays a lot like his real life counterpart in almost every way, he goes to the turn around jumpshot a lot instead of a jumphook. Fix this next year EA. As long as we’re pointing out flaws, I might as well point out that players tend to step on the line a lot but that just means you’ll have to play smarter and look at a player before you pass to him. This is better basketball anyway but it adds to the learning curve. Players will setup in bounds but you have to give them time. All in all, the overall abundance and variety of animations, especially off the ball, make this game move and flow a little better and have a more dynamic feel than NBA2K7.

These dudes is so far ahead of 2k its ridiculous.

[will658761]

interesting

[Arthas86]

Good information

[xox]

I never thouth that a man can write so many BS in one post...

[michaelc37]

Lol, i partially agree.
I think EA had deeper intensions but lack of proper execution in develpment cause the release of a poor product (nba live 07).
And am not 2 convinced yet that live 08 will be better than 2k8.
EA might as well just release an emulator to run 2k on the pc

[benji]

Thanks for the copy/paste job.

Maybe next time you could just link to the reader review, add your pithy comments and make large leaps of logic based on a review of Live 07 without any kind of argument to back them.

A few of my own? I feel stupid for doing this as you might not even be the original author.

This game is tremendously deep. Each player is rated in four times as many rating categories than in NBA2K7. We’re talking categories like first step, max speed, ballcarrier speed...

Then, Live is the one that's last gen...try a wittle game called "Inside Drive" to see this actually done and not faked.

This particular flaw in NBA2K series is exacerbated by the fact that defenders just don’t play very good one on one defense while in Live the computer seems much more apt to shut you down one on one and make you play real team basketball.

Heh.

The defender should push back, that’s just how defense is played, and NBA2K7 completely neglects this to have a game that seems to flow more smoothly. Watch an NBA game and I don’t think you’ll ever see a player try to dribble or drive through someone without the defender pushing back.

Yes, you will. At Live's middle setting for physical contact, it would be called as a foul. Without that "bumping" (you aren't actually making contact with the player, you're being sucked towards the player and bounced off him) you can get around defenders at ease.

[The Reason]

Thanks for the copy/paste job.

Maybe next time you could just link to the reader review, add your pithy comments and make large leaps of logic based on a review of Live 07 without any kind of argument to back them.

A few of my own? I feel stupid for doing this as you might not even be the original author.

This game is tremendously deep. Each player is rated in four times as many rating categories than in NBA2K7. We’re talking categories like first step, max speed, ballcarrier speed...

Then, Live is the one that's last gen...try a wittle game called "Inside Drive" to see this actually done and not faked.

This particular flaw in NBA2K series is exacerbated by the fact that defenders just don’t play very good one on one defense while in Live the computer seems much more apt to shut you down one on one and make you play real team basketball.

Heh.

The defender should push back, that’s just how defense is played, and NBA2K7 completely neglects this to have a game that seems to flow more smoothly. Watch an NBA game and I don’t think you’ll ever see a player try to dribble or drive through someone without the defender pushing back.

Yes, you will. At Live's middle setting for physical contact, it would be called as a foul. Without that "bumping" (you aren't actually making contact with the player, you're being sucked towards the player and bounced off him) you can get around defenders at ease.

Thanks for reminding me of what I did and I felt like all of that was way to long. Most of that is beside the point, this review has helped me understand why EA has done what they have done to make a nextgen b-ball game. I could have sworn that thats what the name of my thread is called, stupid.

So Inside Drive had 86 ratings per player? NO
http://sports.ign.com/nbalive07/newjersey.html

[volsey]

How do you know all of this? Have you played the game? Or even seen a demonstration of something from EA, cause if you're making that whole post based on just the few videos we've seen so far and the interviews where the devs say the same thing every year, then I'm not even going to read the rest.

Off topic, I totally forgot about the 86 attributes, man that would be a pain. I hope they let you hide some of the not so needed attributes when you look at a players card or w/e because I wouldn't be able to stand having to scroll through so many attributes. Not to mention scouting would be tougher, I can just see it now, SG with 91 speed, 61 First step, and 53 ballcarrier speed. A dream to play with.

[benji]

How do you know all of this? Have you played the game? Or even seen a demonstration of something from EA, cause if you're making that whole post based on just the few videos we've seen so far and the interviews where the devs say the same thing every year, then I'm not even going to read the rest.

He didn't even write it, it's a review of NBA Live 07 that a gushing fanboy wrote at GameSpot.

Thanks for reminding me of what I did and I felt like all of that was way to long. Most of that is beside the point, this review has helped me understand why EA has done what they have done to make a nextgen b-ball game. I could have sworn that thats what the name of my thread is called, stupid.

Big man insulting others on internet forums...why didn't you just say that and post a link to start with? Instead of trolling?

http://sports.ign.com/nbalive07/newjersey.html

Heh, they rated Jason Collins as one of the worst defenders...

So Inside Drive had 86 ratings per player? NO

You're right! It had over 100!

Hell, even Inside Drive 2000 had a number of these attributes. The last game in the series had tons more.

So, it's good to see Live catching up to Inside Drive finally...even if half those ratings didn't do anything in the last game.

[Darko_Milicic]

HELL NO

Are you an EA Sports worker or what

NBA Live 07 sucks and disappointed a lot of fans

[kbryant24]

nba 07 is not bad if u use the SUM patch

it sucks ass w/o it though

[The Reason]

How do you know all of this? Have you played the game? Or even seen a demonstration of something from EA, cause if you're making that whole post based on just the few videos we've seen so far and the interviews where the devs say the same thing every year, then I'm not even going to read the rest.

He didn't even write it, it's a review of NBA Live 07 that a gushing fanboy wrote at GameSpot.

Thanks for reminding me of what I did and I felt like all of that was way to long. Most of that is beside the point, this review has helped me understand why EA has done what they have done to make a nextgen b-ball game. I could have sworn that thats what the name of my thread is called, stupid.

Big man insulting others on internet forums...why didn't you just say that and post a link to start with? Instead of trolling?

http://sports.ign.com/nbalive07/newjersey.html

Heh, they rated Jason Collins as one of the worst defenders...

So Inside Drive had 86 ratings per player? NO

You're right! It had over 100!

Hell, even Inside Drive 2000 had a number of these attributes. The last game in the series had tons more.

So, it's good to see Live catching up to Inside Drive finally...even if half those ratings didn't do anything in the last game.

You're not the only one that played the Inside Drive series and it did not have 100 ratings per player. If you cant provide a link then your ranting means nothing.

[BZ]

For anyone to think that the NBA Live series is better than the 2k series at this point is either delirious and about to commit suicide, or a biased NBA Live development team member.

[The Reason]

I dont think its better but it will be.

[benji]

You're not the only one that played the Inside Drive series and it did not have 100 ratings per player. If you cant provide a link then your ranting means nothing.

Alright Pot, I know you could only edit 45 ratings for your created players, because it would generate the rest from that information. The players already in the game possessed far more data than you were allowed to edit. Like the primacy in the last gen versions of NBA Live.

It's pretty hard to find any links from 2003 as half the sites don't exist anymore. I do remember that in an issue of Game Informer they noted this if you want some kind of media verification.

Plus, it's hard to take Live's ratings seriously when they're so laughable.

Anyway this thread bores me now. Go back to posting reader reviews without linking to the source and pretending you've played Live 08, insulting people while still in "single digits" posts, and making claims about things that are yet to transpire.

[HtownBallaADL]

For anyone to think that the NBA Live series is better than the 2k series at this point is either delirious and about to commit suicide, or a biased NBA Live development team member.

He never said it was better, He said it was deeper....I don't know if Live 07 was better, because I never played it. I've only been playing 2k7(Its getting annoying though, too many glitches and its becoming unplayable)

Edit: Also, I think eventually Live will start getting the advantage over 2k(maybe in 08 or 09). Because, do you all remember on Live 06 when EA chose not to port the current gen version to next gen(and 2k did)? I think now it is starting to work into EA's advantage, you can already see 2k suffering in the graphic department(and 2k still plays like current gen). If Live 08 is not better than 2k8, I can guarntee that Live 09 will be better than 2k9. Good move EA.

[The Reason]

For anyone to think that the NBA Live series is better than the 2k series at this point is either delirious and about to commit suicide, or a biased NBA Live development team member.

He never said it was better, He said it was deeper....I don't know if Live 07 was better, because I never played it. I've only been playing 2k7(Its getting annoying though, too many glitches and its becoming unplayable)

Edit: Also, I think eventually Live will start getting the advantage over 2k(maybe in 08 or 09). Because, do you all remember on Live 06 when EA chose not to port the current gen version to next gen(and 2k did)? I think now it is starting to work into EA's advantage, you can already see 2k suffering in the graphic department(and 2k still plays like current gen). If Live 08 is not better than 2k8, I can guarntee that Live 09 will be better than 2k9. Good move EA.

Exactly, the system EA got in Live can make the players play like the real thing like no other, think about what they have done.

The onlything that 2k got over EA is animations and Live is on the verge of making 2k look so lastgen. I honestly think that this is the year because 2k never pulled a no show at E3.

[Devin112]

I never thouth that a man can write so many BS in one post...

You haven't read enough of my posts, if that's the case.

[xox]

Devin112,i hope i didn't hurt your feeling or something,but i did read your post and im not sure that you can prove anything that you say...

[Isaiah]

Hey Devin112's back!! It's been a while..

on topic... I don't know how Live can create an authentic NBA experience with

-numerous glitches and gameplay errors on the current gen

-unrealistic ball physics when shooting and super slow motion game play on next gen

[king2k]

Here's the real deal

"NBA 2k7 is the best basketball game ever made thus far. Nothing comes within a 100 miles of it. It will be greater than the next 20 versions of Live, even when it extends to next next gen, ps30 or xbox 940, it does not matter. The only future versions of basketball games that will top 2k7 will be 2k's and nothing else..................................period...... ............."

[bigh0rt]

Yeah, this thread's dead...