Trade advice needed

[JT_55]

I certainly hope Ilgauskas is worth more than a beer and a popcorn; check this out:

Houston for Damon Stodemire straight up, then Stoudemire for Z.

That's what I did. Then I got Boozer by trading Z away.

About the PG situation...Tinsley is going to ask for 4-5 M in his new contract and he's not going to gain that many points so Hinrich is the best. Also. Hinrich gains 7 points in the first year. Hinrich is hard to get. The Bulls aren't starved in any position but I found that they prefer a SF than any other position. I usually get Posey to trade for Hinrich; it's a rip-off for me, but it's not that bad considering that I started with Sundov (just kidding).

EDIT: Scratch that thought. I didn't get Boozer from Z. I traded Z in a neat 3 for 2 trade to the Nets for R.Jefferson and E.Williams, then Jefferson (again, 3 for 2) for Ginobili and Rasho. Then Ginobili (Rockets are SG short because I got T-Mac for Marbury) and a small contract for Yao and a big contract.

[asgsjb]

Sorry I've been out of touch. My company is closing down and so I've been swamped taking the place apart and looking for a new job. Sucks!

At night, to ease my mind, though, I've been making my way through the season. Middle way through April. I'll soon be hitting the playoffs and then getting to the offseason to start trying some of these trade ideas.

Doing some scouting of upcoming draft options...most are pretty poor. I'm lucky to see C's let alone anything higher...doesn't look like I'll be drafting any rookies this year. :)

[JT_55]

Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Good luck finding a new job.

The draft depth is weak, right? Well, as I've said before, try and draft the best centre available, the computer want centers more. Remember the first trade you did? A 70 something SG and a 36 rated center for J-Will and a 46 rated player? Well, the computer normally wouldn't do that but Memphis was looking for a center at that time.

[asgsjb]

Thanks. Job hunting is not much fun, but i am optimistic.

As I am scouting potential draftees, I have been focusing on C's for exactly the reason you mention. I also have looked at a few 7'1" PF's. Go figure...7'1" PF's, but not a single SG over 6'4" in the draft.

[JT_55]

Wow, a 7'1" PF. It's more rare than you'd think, as most of the time, I get tall SF and short SG and PF. The PG and the C are sometimes tall, sometimes short.

I'm expecting you to draft a guy around 40-45 rating. The game's not realisitic in draft depth. Considering weak drafts in the past few years (information obtained from "X's Hypothetical draft Do-Over's" thread: http://www.nbaliveforums.com/ftopic50009-0-asc-0.php) you can see that the first overall do-over pick (the pick that would make the most sence in hindsight in the author opinion) in these drafts aren't that bad (Redd in 2000 is now rated 80) but the game makes the first pick in a weak draft very weak, too. The highest was a 56.

[asgsjb]

Even more surprising is that there are 2 PF's in this draft that are 7'1", not just one PF.

[JT_55]

Speaking of drafting...I have done a bit of follow-up on that draft experiment and found out that the averages and stuff are completely different from the first one. Source of error may be the draft depth so the information might not be as accurate as I would've liked them to be. I'm trying right now to see if the draft depth might also have an effect on the expected outcome of the player...see how that turns out in a while.

How much space do you have cap-wise? Maybe you can try to pick up a bargain instead of drafting. I Found that there alot of players in mid-60s that can be gotten for 3-4 mil/year in my Bobcats dynasty.

[asgsjb]

I'm still deep in the cap hole. To be under the cap, you can't have more than 1 player making $12M+...but with Kobe, Houston, Hardaway and Ilgauskas all earning that now, and with Houston and Kobe making more next year, and with J-Will making $6M+ and Moochie Norris making $3M+ as a backup PG, I have a long way to go before I can afford any free agent making more than the minimum.

I definitely want to focus on free agents over draft picks this season, with the draft being so bad. I can get Pargo, Knight or Blake despite my cap issues. So that's good. I then will let Hardaway go and will hope to deal J-Will and Ilgauskas for younger, cheaper talent. I then need to get rid of Houston or wait until his contract is up. THEN will I finally have cap freedom. I knew it was a work in progress when I took on the Knicks for a dynasty...it make take patience, but I will get to the point where the team is skilled and cost-effective.

[JT_55]

There's also usually a bargain for a undrafted guy that's about 40 rated and for 385K, so you may want to forfeit your second rounder to pick him up. Too bad the game doesn't have MLE, or free agency will be alot more active. I usually just skip it all to the trading.

If you do get rid of Houston, I'm not sure how long Stoudemire's contract is, so if it's the same or longer than Houston's, it may not be such a good idea to get him now that Z isn't available. Of course, it's no guarantee that the trade will even work as the Blazers may have got a SG already.

[asgsjb]

Been a while. Hope all's well.

Interesting stuff. First, I whipped through the playoffs with my Knicks Dynasty...won it all. More interested in the offseason, though.

- My team's stats improved nicely. Only the older players like Moochie Norris and Houston (although surprisingly not much for Penny) had some down tick in some stats. Wallace is now at 64 overall with Josh Smith up to 60, Okafor increased to 72 and Sweetney to 66. The salary cap went up by about 1/2 million and while many salaries (including Houston's) went up, Ilgauskas' dropped from $14M+ to $7.65M and Penny's dropped from $12M+ to $4.1M. So rather than being $50M+ over the cap, I went into the offseason being only $39.63M over the cap. My cap will look better when Houston is off it.

- I resigned all my free agents other than Tierre Brown (PG). I wouldn't have signed Penny, but his salary plummeted and his overall rank improved. I figured I could use him as good trade bait at $4.1M. Ilgauskas was also worth re-signing at his lowered salary...again, for trade bait. I also re-signed Gerald Wallace to a 5 yr. deal and Haywood to a 4 yr. deal, Korver to a 1 yr. deal

- I scouted a ton of draftees, but when it came to my time to pick, the 1 or 2 players I might have considered were gone. So I forfeited both my picks.

- I then signed Pargo in free agency to be my potential PG of the future...or at least a better backup than Moochie Norris, who is aging and getting pricey.

- Training camp went well, and stats increased nicely.

- Couldn't work a draft in preseason. When I got to the start of the new season, though, I remembered your trade advice and decided to listen to your logic. Thanks for that, because it works. Get this...my goal was to get Ming to start:

- I traded Wallace and J-Will to HOU for Ming/Weatherspoon
- I then dropped Weatherspoon to open roster space
- I traded Ilgauskas to HOU to get J-Will back
- I signed Othella Harrington (PF)
- I traded Mohammed/Harrington to ORL for Turkoglu (SF)
- I added Anthony Carter (PG)
- I traded A.Carter/Turkoglu to GS for Derek Fisher (PG)
- I added Linton Johnson (SF)
- I traded L.Johnson/Fisher to HOU to get back Wallace (w/Gaines)
- I then dropped Gaines to add roster room

This gave me my original team, but with Ming instead of Ilgauskas. Ming is younger and has more potential, and even though he's in his last contract year, I can handle any increase that comes next year. For this year, Ming's $5.6M salary is better than Ilgaukas' $7.65M salary. I also got rid of Mohammed's $5.5M salary by doing this.

So here's my team right now (99 rank, I believe):

- PG: J-Will, Norris, Pargo
- SG: Kobe, Houston, Penny
- SF: Wallace, J.Smith, Korver
- PF: Okafor, Sweetney
- C: Ming, Haywood, Mihm

Pretty sweet. Now I can look at where else I want to improve my team.

So that's where I am at for now. I simmed the first bunch of games for the new season to focus on trading...the computer didn't totally screw me (4-1 record). Now I can pick up playing with Ming, who I like using in Live '05.

So again, thanks for the trade pointers. What are your thoughts about all the moves above (draft, free agency, trades, current team, etc.)?

MID AFTERNOON EDIT: Did another bunch of moves...Added Bryce Drew, Traded Drew and Moochie Norris to TOR for Mo Pete, added Whitney (PG), traded Whitney and Penny to TOR to get Moochie Norris back. The latter move was because I feel it is easier to move a PG than an old SG. Essentially, the deal really comes down to moving Penny, Drew and Whiteny to get Mo Pete. Mo Pete is 7 years younger than Penny and several rankings higher. So I am happy with that move. Would still love to figure out how to nab Redd, but his high rank and low salary makes it tough.

[JT_55]

No problemo. I'm happy to share my little strategies.

You actually did what I never bothered to do...win the Finals. Like you, I was looking forward to the off-season so I just simmed it. I never had the luck to win it all.

I was kinda suprised about the player progressions. The first year for Okafor is what I usually like to call his "dormant year", which is where he gains very little (or not at all) stats. he usually stays at 70 or 71, then goes up next year. Would've hoped Smith and Wallace gain a few more, too.

How much did Wallace and Haywood re-sign for? I figure 3 mil for Wallace and 2-3 mil for Haywood, is that correct? Resigning Penny is a good idea, and his price is not too bad either.

Better luck with the draft next year. What is the draft depth this time?

With the trades, you filled that awfully gaping hole at centre and made it a strong point now with Yao. And you got rid of Nazr Mohammed. I'm really glad you were able to use my advise. Still, Houston is beconing a bit of an eyesore.

Now every time I finish a series of trades, I always look back at the team and look at the weakest position in the team. In your case, SF. Of course, Wallace is good enough to play for your team. But it won't hurt to improve. Now, the usual targets may be out of reach, as I'm sure Denver would had filled up their SG lack by now, so Melo is hard to get. Prince wasn't that much of a bargain in the first place, but with his rating at 69-70 now, you could still consider him. You don't even have to consider guys like KVH, RJ, VC, and AK 47 if you want cap room. You can always put a guy like Lebron at SF (heck, put him at PF against Brand).

[asgsjb]

I simmed the 1st 3 quarters of each playoff game, so they went pretty quickly. But by playing the last quarter, I was able to catch up and win most games I was behind in.

Wallace re-signed for 5 yrs at $3.13M per year. Haywood signed for 4 years at $3.31M per year. Man, you're good...you were almost right on the money with your gueses as to their salaries.

Draft depth is considered strong, but I'm not sure I agree. This year has some relatively nice sized SF's (6'9"), but it's also loaded with short SG's (6'1"). There is 1 "excellent" player in the first round and only 2 overall. In the top 5, there are 4 PF's and an SG...the #1 guy is "very limited", and then there is 1 "good", 2 "average" and 1 "limited". Not so special.

Happy to dump Mohammed. Woudl prefer to move Norris if I can leverage that into another, younger PG. Houston is a HUUUUGE eyesore. He was hard enough to lose last year...adding a few more million to his salary is not helping at all. There is not a single player on any roster with an expiring contract that I can leverage into a deal for a $19.12M player like Houston. I may be stuck with him.

SF is the weakest position for me if you look at overall rankings. But as for actual play, Wallace and Josh Smith fit my style pretty well. Both are relatively fast, dribble well and can jump and dunk like beasts. I'm a big believer in having my SF take it to the hoop for the dunk. I will still look to see what's better out there, but I'll be happy to use Wallace or Smith for the season if I can't find better.

LATE NIGHT EDIT: Ming is a monster! I just played my 1st game with him as my C...played the full game with no simming. He was up against Shaq as I played Miami. Shaq stopped Ming early, blocking him frequently. Then Ming took over. At the end, Ming had 29 points, 12 rebounds and 9 blocks in 29 minutes against Shaq. That ain't no easy feat! What a great center!

[JT_55]

Meh. I know the salaries cause the computers always sign them for somewhere around the same value. So I'm not really superhuman and can read your computer's mind.

Don't focus on the players in the top five. Unless you plan to tank the whole season to get draft position, you're not goona get anyone close to there anyway. But really. Once, I semi-tanked and got a top 15 pick. I planned on using it on a good potential guy. But on draft day, I got a little greedy and picked a top ten guy, with no clue what his potential was. The top ten guy turned out to be 63 (not too bad), but the guy I was scouting all along was 68.

You said that the potential for the top 5 are not really good, but remember, at the end of the day, it's the highest rating that counts. But better draft depth means that the lower part of the draft is also better, so you can pick up decent players.

You can try to package Norris with a smaller contract player to trade for an upgrade, maybe? Don't think you can trade Houston now. With his contract rising, it's harder and harder to dump him. But you can maybe try a really creative trade to get rid of him. Like packing Yao with him and get someone like RJ and a 6-7 million guy. Then (the easy part) get Yao back and trade RJ for an expiring contract.

[asgsjb]

Could use your advice again. With a starting team of J-Will, Kobe, Gerald Wallace, Okafor and Ming (my Knicks Dynasty), and with your suggestion about improving at SF, I can package Norris with Wallace to get Al Harrington (ranked 75 as compared to Wallace's 64). Have you played with Harrington? Is he overrated or is he worth getting?

By the way, there seems to be little trade options for Harrington if I get him. The only thing that was interesting is that I can package Ming and Harrington to get Marion (a clear SF upgrade)...I can move Peterson to get Magloire to cover at C, but then I have lost my backup SG. But then I cannot figure out any trade to get Ming back. They were looking for SG help, but I can't get an SG that Phoenix was willing to trade Ming for. I can trade J-Will for Sprewell, but that's the closest I can get, and then Phoenix doesn't want Sprewell and I can't find anything to offer to get J-Will back.

So the options are: 1) stand pat with Wallace, 2) trade Norris/Wallace to get Harrington, or 3) trade Norris/Wallace to get Harrington and then trade Ming/Harrington to get Marion. Thoughts?

[JT_55]

Marion: overrated.

Never played with him, but looking over at his ratings, he can't shoot very well and the only thing he's good at is stealing. I don't remember his speed and quickness ratings but they should be too shabby. Might as well get Kirilenko.

If you do want Marion, don't trade Harrington for him. Another trade theory I have is take advantage of opponents' holes (weak positions) and when filling it, make more holes. So trade Harrington for someone else-maybe another centre-and then the Suns would be weak in both SG and SF, then you have more choice in getting Yao back.

Wait a minute..why do you have to give up Yao in the first place? Harrington (75) and Yao (80-83) for Marion who is at tops 85? That's a ripoff.

If it was me, I'll take number 2, but it's best to try out Harrinton in a exhibition game first.

EDIT:I'm almost done with the next batch of draft experiment. Post it tomorrow.

[JT_55]

Tomorrow turned into 5 days. Oh well, I still not done. I've got a little problem: I found out that the average rating for each letter grade was actually different for each draftee. Very different. Now all I gotta do is figure out what the "normal" differerence from the average is. Great. This might even be a scandal: EA making letter grades that different for everyone anyway. So why put them there in the first place?

I'm gonna post it in this topic. It's off-topic, but who cares? I don't think anyone (even Andrew) reads this anymore.

[asgsjb]

Yup, seems like you and me at this point.

Got a little bored tonight, so decided to have some fun with a new draft and sim of the first few months to focus on trading. What a dream sequence of events for this fantasy draft. I started with this team after the draft:

PG: Jaric (starter), R.Lopez, S.Blake
SG: McGrady (starter), Childress, Jacobsen
SF: G.Wallace (starter), J.Smith, Kedrick Brown, Korver
PF: Okafor (starter) Perkins, Milicic
C: Gasol (starter...actually PF), Kaman

Not bad, but not spectacular. Then the trades started:

- I traded G.Wallace/Childress for Rashard Lewis...a steal.
- I traded Lopez/Milicic for Al Jefferson (PF)
- I traded Okafor/S.Blake for Ming...another steal.
- I traded Jefferson for Nocioni
- I was 5 short on the roster, so added C.Alexander, Ollie, Piatkowski, Varajeo and T.Outlaw
- I traded Nocioni/J.Smith/K.Brown for LeBron James...another steal.
- I traded Alexander/Jacobsen for D.Stevenson
- I traded Stevenson/Varajeo for Caron Butler
- I traded Jaric/Ollie for Alston
- I traded Alston/Butler for Billups
- I was again down 5, so I added D.Jones, S.Walker, Haslem, A.Johnson and G.Rice.
- I traded Outlaw/Korver for Robert Swift (C)
- I traded D.Jones to get Jacobsen back (for 3's).

So I transformed the team into the following:

Starters:

PG: Billups (71)
SG: McGrady (90)
SF: R.Lewis (76)
PF: Gasol (82)
C: Ming (80)

Backups:

PG: A.Johnson (48)...I could use another PG here
SG: LeBron James (84), Piatkowski (48), Jacobsen (49)
SF: Rice (49)...James can fill in here too
PF: S.Walker (51), Haslem (50), Perkins (45)
C: Kaman (57), R.Swift (52)

I am not keeping this dynasty, so I actually erased it already. But it was a blast turning my average starting lineup into what it became, while still having LeBron on the bench. And I only ended up $8-9M over the cap, despite all this talent. Amazing!

[JT_55]

Well, I always have trouble with the cap. Seems like whatever I do, I end up 20-30 M over. I suppose it may be my trading technique. You do a great job by using what I said and adapting it to your own style, and, from what I see, it's way more efficient cap-wise. You see, I do it step-by-step, and that doesn't work always as the player I'm trying to get has a salary that's way different than the one I have, therefore making me have to adjust salaries. And I have to do it alot and that might force me to get a player who has a higher-than-ideal salary. You have a way of finding a good combo trade, so you skip alot of steps. That is really good thinking. Am I rambling too much...? Sorry.

I'd move T'Mac if I were you..but you already deleted it, so whatever.

[asgsjb]

Out of curiosity, why do you suggest moving T-Mac? His salary? Or have you played with him and found him to not be as useful on Live '05 than he is in the real NBA?

Also, you mentioned in a post the other day about Marion being overrated in Live '05...why is he overrated in this game? Bad shooting? Too slow? Something else?

[Andrew]

I'm not sure if this is what JT is referring to, but Shawn Marion's overall tends to be fairly high because he's an athletic player with high jumping and dunking ratings and decent speed and quickness ratings. The same thing has happened with Josh Smith the last couple of years as well. It's hard to control since the overall rating is calculated automatically from the individual ratings and generally speaking those players have appropriate individual ratings so lowering them isn't really a desirable solution.

[JT_55]

So Andrew does read this...I stand corrected. I guess as admin you do have to in case I try to spam this thread.

Yeah, Andrew's right. That pretty much what I meant. Marion is a good player, but at his rating, you can find someone better (higher rated). But I thought that Iguodala's individual ratings were lowered to keep his overall from getting too high.

asgsjb, I suggest moving T-Mac because of his salary. He can do everything but steal. Shoot threes, block (at 5'9" he can block quite well regardless of his rating), has decent speed, and is one of the best dunkers in the game. But a 14 M and rising salary won't do your cap any favors.

[Andrew]

I've been reading but it's been a while since I've played NBA Live 2005 so I've been a bit short on ideas and advice.

[asgsjb]

Hi guys. Andrew, glad you jumped back in even if you feel you are short on advice.

Putting money aside, is Marion's skills equal to his overall ranking? Meaning, do you get more bang for your buck going for Marion (ranked in his 80's) than another fast, high-jumping, big-dunking SF who is ranked in the upper 70's? When I draft, I tend to focus on big men (defense is key) and high-octane SG's (Bryant, Redd, etc.) who can hit the 3. SF is usually last on my list and I tend to then draft the same guys who do a great job for me...Gerald Wallace and Josh Smith. They play very much like Marion. Is Marion, skill-wise, a marked improvement over Wallace and Smith so that it is worth trying to trade for Marion later on, or am I just as well off sticking with the guys I have because Marion will not benefit me that much more?

As for money, it is a tough trade-off. If I try to stay under the cap, I cannot draft 2 guys who make $12M+...it eats up too much cap space. But I can be a few million under the cap if I draft 1 player with that salary. And obviously, I can be $10M+ under the cap if I totally avoid anyone in that salary range. I've had great teams where my only expensive player is Kobe...he is worth his salary because I can win a game with Kobe surrounded by a bunch of scrubs. He's that good in Live '05. I haven't played with T-Mac yet...is he like Kobe in that he's a game-changer and worth the salary? Or does he not play as lofty as his salary would indicate?

By the way, I have only been able to do it once, but if you are fortunate enough, doing a draft where you nab Ming, Gasol and Redd in the first 3 rounds is a sure-fire way to have a top team while being on the way to keeping well under the cap. That's my favorite combo of players to form a roster around. If you can then add in a good, cheap (or relatively cheap) PG like Hinrich (or even Billups if you want to spend a drop more) and SF (like Gerald Wallace), you're on your way to a title as well as manager-of-the-year.

[JT_55]

Wow, I thought Andrew was humanly uncapable of running out of advice.

I think you should stick to Wallace and Smith if you're cap consious, and to go with Marion if you want that extra "bang". But as they fit you well, you should go with them. Of course, on the flip side, Marion might be quicker and might hit that critical shot that Wallace/Smith might've missed.

T-Mac is worth every cent (and maybe even more) of his salary. He can do everything Kobe can except steal, and the fact that he's three inches taller makes him better at getting the shot off without being blocked and blocking other people.

[Andrew]

Marion's not a bad player to have since his athleticism makes him a threat, his ratings allow him to be a decent option as a jumpshooter and he can be used well defensively as well. He's also a good trade asset since he does have a high overall rating and a decent size contract, so if you do decide to go in another direction he can be quite useful when putting together a blockbuster deal.