X's Hypothetical Draft Do-overs *1984 Posted*

[Lamrock]

Well, I've always been a blatant Kandiman fan (see my avatar), but those 2 seasons, he was pretty solid. If he played all of 2004 at 2003 level, and their backcourt didn't get injured, Minnesota may have won it all that year...

But considering that LaFrentz missed nearly all of his rookie season, and that he is more of a PF, I'd put Kandiman in his place. Not all-star caliber, but he was as good as Jamaal Magloire in 2004 in those 2 prime years...

[Carmo]

Yeah, 1997 is disappointing...TD is a no-brainer at first, then T-Mac then Billups. Then a load of other players. Van Horn put up good figures at first.

Kobe anyone?

[buzzy]

Kobe was drafted '96.

[benji]

Well, I've always been a blatant Kandiman fan (see my avatar), but those 2 seasons, he was pretty solid. ...Not all-star caliber, but he was as good as Jamaal Magloire in 2004 in those 2 prime years...

Come on. Magloire should've never been on the all-star team (Ilgauskas was the other Center in the East that year) but the coaches always make stupid decisions like that.

But to say Olowokandi was as good?

shooting percentage
Kandiman0102: .457 (.433 from the floor)
Kandiman0203: .457 (.427 from the floor)
Magloire0304: .551 (.473 from the floor)

rebounding percentage
Kandiman0102: 15.7
Kandiman0203: 13.6
Magloire0304: 17.4

ORtg:
Kandiman0102: 90 (105)
Kandiman0203: 86 (104)
Magloire0304: 106 (103)

f he played all of 2004 at 2003 level, and their backcourt didn't get injured, Minnesota may have won it all that year...

He was slightly better in 2004...and Minny's title hopes were entirely determined by Cassell getting injured or not.

Kandi shot above 48% exactly zero times in his career. Ben Wallace has done it five times for darkosakes. If you can't shoot 50%, you generally have no business being in the All-Star game. Especially if you aren't tops in your class in anything else.

[Anthony15]

96 should be interesting also, tough choice if Philly would rather take AI or Kobe at 1.

I already know who I'm taking at #1, but you'll just have to wait & see

Money says it's nash, then Kobe, then Iverson, then Ray Allen.

Hmmm, but how do you put Nash over Kobe?

IMO Nash should be drafted 5th behind Kobe, AI, Jermaine O'Neal, and Ray Allen. Only then Milwaukee takes Nash.

[Sauru]

i dont remember the order of that draft class but on talent alone i would take nash second with kobe of course going first.

[Silas]

I'd agree, but then one can make the argument that Nash didn't really hit his prime until he was in his 30's and had moved to Phoenix, so for immediate impact's sakes, Iverson and Ray Allen were both more valuable, especially Iverson. He made a gigantic impact for years and was MVP long before Nash was ever MVP.

[Sauru]

yeah but i dont know if you can really do it based solely on immediate impact, though iverson was damn near unstopable for awhile there.

[Andrew]

Lorenzen Wright, Todd Fuller, Samaki Walker, Kerry Kittles and Vitaly Potapenko all went in the lottery in 1996. I can see them being bumped for Nash, Peja, O'Neal, Ilgauskas and Fisher.

[Silas]

Exactly, for the first five to seven years of their careers, one can certainly agree that Iverson was a more valuable career, and possibly Ray Allen as well.

Nash had one, possibly two strong statistical years with Dallas. His numbers show that he didn't really become the player he is today (i.e. 10+ assists and 16-18 ppg) until his move to Phoenix.

Ray Allen's first five years he averaged 13.4, 19.5, 17.1, 22.1, & 22.0 ppg. Also take into account the third season where he averaged 17.1 ppg was the lockout season. He also averaged from 2.6 assists in his rookie season to as many as 4.6 assists, along with anywhere from 4 rebounds to 5.2.

In contrast, Steve Nash's first five years were much less statistically productive. He averaged 3.3, 9.1, 7.9, 8.6, & 15.6 ppg during those seasons, along with anywhere from 2.1 to 7.3 assists. He didn't play a full 82 game season until his sixth year, and his only full 82 game season since was the following season of 2002-2003. His next highest number was 78, in his final season with Dallas. Even when he averaged over 30 minutes a night during the lockout season, he still only scored 7.9 ppg with 5.5 apg.

I think it's quite clear that until his last three seasons with Phoenix, Ray Allen had a much bigger impact on the league and his team, and was the much better player.

It's also to be noted, that prior to arriving in Phoenix, Steve Nash made the conference finals with Dallas only in 2002, where he was teamed with Dirk Nowitzki, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, and Raef LaFrentz.

Allen made the conference Finals in 2001 with Sam Cassel and Glenn Robinson. I think Allen made a bigger impact with less talent for the majority of their respective careers.

[Sauru]

did nash start when he first got to dallas?

[Air Zoom Kobe I]

did nash start when he first got to dallas?

Yep.


Was Mcgrady in the '96 Draft??

[benji]

No, 1997. With Duncan.

And Nash didn't start when he first got to Dallas, he only started 27 of their games in 1999-2000.

[jonthefon]

Nash hasn't played full-time in a non fast-break team. In Dallas, he was injured for periods of time and wasn't exactly given the offense to run (which was why his figures weren't as good). I'd like to see him play in a slower offensive system to see how he matches up.

[The X]

Nash hasn't played full-time in a non fast-break team. In Dallas, he was injured for periods of time and wasn't exactly given the offense to run (which was why his figures weren't as good). I'd like to see him play in a slower offensive system to see how he matches up.

I think he'd be fine now. Obviously his scoring would be down & assists would be down slightly, but I do believe at this stage of his career, it wouldn't matter what type of team he was with, he would be an impact....but granted, any team that would have a talented PG like Nash would be wise to build a style that is conducive to his playing style, to maximise the results....

[The X]

1997 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. San Antonio: PF/C- Tim Duncan (picked #1)

It doesn't get any easier than this. Probably best pick of the decade, not just of this draft.

2. Philadelphia: SF/SG- Tracy McGrady (picked #9)

This pick would've put Iverson, Stackhouse & McGrady on the same team. This is a no brainer, even though it would take T-Mac 3 years to hit his strides.

3. Boston: PG/SG- Chauncey Billups (picked #3)

The Celtics made the right pick all along. Shame they gave up on him so quick. Billups was a keeper, he just needed to be nurtured & have faith put in him. He could've played as a 6th man combo guard until he was ready to be a full-time starter.

4. Vancouver: SF/PF- Keith Van Horn (picked #2)

The Grizzlies needed all the scoring help they could get & KVH would've combined with Reef to give the team two 20ppg frontcourt scorers, which Van Horn was for the first few years of his career. He could still be playing now & giving a team double digit scoring if he wanted to, but he has now presumably retired. Would've been a good pick for the franchise.

5. Denver: PG/SG- Bobby Jackson (picked #23)

This is where there is a huge drop-off in talent. The Nuggets needed a PG & Jackson is the best available & would've been very serviceable had they kept him. If not Jackson here, then perhaps Derek Anderson, Tim Thomas or Danny Fortson.

6. Boston: SG/PG- Derek Anderson (picked #13)

I thought about Tim Thomas at this pick, but his lack of work ethic would've hurts him. Anderson would've added another Kentucky alum to Pitino's ranks. Wouldn't have helped a lot, but still better than say Ron Mercer.

7. New Jersey: SF/PF- Tim Thomas (picked #7)

While he's no Keith Van Horn, he had more talent than him & he fills a void in the Nets' frontcourt, & would've been a solid fit with this team. It's also his hometown so that helps.

8. Golden State: PF/C- Danny Fortson (picked #10)

When Fortson was healthy & the was in the coach's good books, he was an absolute dynamo on the boards. He had some of his best years in Oakland, so I've got him going to a Warriors team that stretched on Adonal Foyle originally to fill the void inside.

9. Toronto: SG/SF- Ron Mercer (picked #6)

Whilst he wasn't a very efficient player & was pretty one-dimensional, Mercer was a pretty handy scorer in the league for his first 4 or 5 years. He would've added scoring straight off the bat as a rookie & you don't see that too often. He would've joined with Doug Christie & Walt Williams as a pretty solid trio on the wings. Not a long term pick, but helps in the short term.

10. Milwaukee: C/PF- Tony Battie (picked #5)

The Bucks badly needed a starting centre to replace Andrew Lang & to start next to Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Vin Baker & Sherman Douglas. Battie edges out Pollard as he's a better athlete.

11. Sacramento: PG- Brevin Knight (picked #16)

Between Bobby Hurley (post-car accident) & Tyus Edney (although we love the guy & all), the Kings were short on PG's. Knight is a bit of a steal at this spot & can come in & start straight away, as he feeds The Rock the rock.

12. Indiana: SG/SF- Stephen Jackson (picked #43)

This Pacers team was already stacked & on their way to the top of the East & just needed to add a pick for the future. Jackson needed a few years to mature, but once that happens, he'll turn into a pretty solid player.

13. Cleveland: PG/SG- Antonio Daniels (picked #4)

They already had Terrell Brandon at PG, but needed some insurance. Outside of a disappointing rookie season, Daniels has been a solid combo guard off the bench for his career & would've strengthened the Cavs' bench. Of course, after the Kemp trade went down, he would've been forced to start, which he probably wasn't ready to do. But at bottom of lottery in a weak draft, it's an alright pick, I guess.


Four toughest omissions: Austin Croshere (#12), Maurice Taylor (#14), Scot Pollard (#19), Anthony Parker (#21).

Four biggest flops: Adonal Foyle (#8), Tariq Abdul-Wahad (formerly Olivier Saint-Jean) (#11), SF/PG- Johnny Taylor (#17), C/PF- Chris Anstey (#18).


Hmmm, by the looks of it I stretched a bit too much on Bobby Jackson. Ahh well, I'm not going to change it & I prefer him over some of the others. A weak draft outside of the top 3 or so. I really had some issues drafting after the top 4. The picks between 5 & 13 could be flipped & swapped a lot, but that was just the way this draft panned out I guess. No one was really standing out at all after the top 4 which was a shame.

The big one is coming up next, the 1996 draft, which was one of the strongest ever. I'll post that by the end of the week, if not sooner.

[Lamrock]

Damn, now that is a weak draft. I agree with all your picks, although I would say that 11-13 were better than all of the 6-10 people, but I guess they were all picking based on need. (I would almost put Daniels at #5 myself)

I can't wait for the 1996 draft. I'm going out on a limb and saying Todd Fuller will be #1.

[Silas]

Not one complaint, weak draft but good picks X

[Lamrock]

One little tiny note.

IIRC, Antonio Daniels was drafted 4th; not 21st like you state.

[The X]

thanks Lamrock, I knew he went #4 to Grizzlies, just forgot to change the template these things happen though....I thought about Daniels at #5, but he had a slowish start to his career & it didn't really start to improve until he got to the Sonics....Bobby Jackson was an immediate impact as a Nugget & had some very good years as a member of the Kings....

[[Q]]

I remember Brad Miller being an immediate impact player in Charlotte and it still boggles my mind that he went undrafted.

and lol @ Tariq Abdul-Wahad aka Oliver Saint-Jean. That dude would never go away in the NBA Live rosters.

[Andrew]

I can't wait for the 1996 draft. I'm going out on a limb and saying Todd Fuller will be #1.

No way, it has to be Joe Vogel.

[frenchy]

I do not remember Johnny Taylor, did he play more than 1 season ?

Olivier Saint Jean was a great player but he was not ok in his mind and it did not change when he became TAW (bad luck !)

[The X]

I do not remember Johnny Taylor, did he play more than 1 season ?

Olivier Saint Jean was a great player but he was not ok in his mind and it did not change when he became TAW (bad luck !)

I'm not sure about Taylor....maybe he played 1 year, or a year & a half....not long....as for Saint Jean, I loved that guy....but I hated that Abdul-Wahad fella....

[The X]

1996 NBA DRAFT RE-DONE (per The X)

1. Philadelphia: PG/SG- Allen Iverson (picked #1)

I found this pick easier than I expected. Kobe might be the best player now, but Iverson owed him & the league for the first 6 or 7 years of his career. The 76ers were led by guys like Stackhouse, Coleman & Weatherspoon & had played 24 different players in the 1995/96 season. The 76ers needed an impact player & The Answer was easily the biggest impact rookie available. I think if the 76ers could go back in time, I don't think they would draft hometown boy Kobe. That would mean giving up their NBA Finals appearance in the early part of this decade & some great years. Iverson characterised the heart & soul of the city, let alone the team. Furthermore, it took Kobe a few years to get going, & the 76ers didn't have time to wait. Plus they already had a high scoring wingman in Jerry Stackhouse. So Iverson sticks at number 1 comfortably.

2. Toronto: SG- Kobe Bryant (picked #13)

Kobe doesn't fall below this spot, no way. Outside of Stoudamire, the Raptors didn't have a whole lot to work with. Whilst Kobe wouldn't have been a big impact the first year or two, he would've had plenty of chances to play & perhaps develop a little quicker. It helps that Kobe loves playing in Toronto, perhaps he lights it up for more than 80 more often. Must be the air up there or something. This would be a great building block for the Raptors, if Kobe would play there, that is.

3. Vancouver: PG- Steve Nash (picked #15)

I have no problem sending hometown boy to the Grizzlies. The perfect hometown product to build a franchise around, eventually. Many people say that Nash took quite a few years to get going. Forget about the stats, I recall watching Nash play as a rookie, & he was NBA ready. He had played 4 years college at Santa Clara & was the first true PG taken in the draft. The problem was that Nash was drafted into a situation where he was playing behind Jason Kidd & Kevin Johnson, who along with Nash, are the 3 best PG's the franchise has ever had, & all on the team at the same time. Whilst it probably helped his growth as a player to learn off them, I think Nash is that smart a player that he would've learnt regardless, & would've been forced to grow at a quicker pace. Nash to go home seems like a good pick.

4. Milwaukee: SG- Ray Allen (picked #5)

Ray ends up in the exact same city, just one pick higher. He has been a pure shooter & scorer from the moment he entered the league. The young Bucks had some super young talent in Vin Baker & Glenn "Big Dog" Robinson, & Allen was the perfect complement. The Bucks didn't want to wait around a few years for a high schooler like Jermaine to develop, nor was Starbury the right fit. So Ray Allen it is.

5. Minnesota: PF/C- Jermaine O'Neal (picked #17)

The Wolves made a huge steal at #5 the previous year with Kevin Garnett, who teamed with All-Star to be Tom Gugliotta to form a terrific frontcourt pairing. Whilst they needed a PG, the only one high enough to draft at this spot is Stephon Marbury, but we all remember how well that panned out. Therefore, I think the young Wolves have time to draft another super talented high schooler in Jermaine O'Neal & give him a couple of years to develop & team with Garnett in the best frontcourt in the West.

6. Boston: PG- Stephon Marbury (picked #4)

I thought about Peja at this spot, but he would stay an extra 2 years in Europe, which is not what the Celtics needed. I was tempted to go Reef, but he was never a huge winner, although he had quite a few years. I was also tempted to go with an athletic, shot-blocking centre who went to local UMass in Marcus Camby. However, I ended up with Stephon Marbury. He might've not been the ideal player for the Celtics, but they were in desperate need of a scorer. Maybe I should've gone Reef here, but frankly, Marbury is a better player than Reef. He would've provided some attitude for the Celtics & would've been trade bait in a few years when he wanted out.

7. LA Clippers: C/PF- Marcus Camby (picked #2)

The West Coast style of ball suits Camby to a tee. He would've slotted right in at centre on the miserable Clippers. If the team were to hold onto him (unlikely with the Clips of yesteryear), then they have filled the centre position with one of the best defensive big men in the last decade. The Clips still would've stank, but it's a good first step. A helluva lot better than Lorenzen Wright, that's for sure.

8. New Jersey: SF/PF- Shareef Abdur-Rahim (picked #3)

The Nets had an alright roster at this time, a bit ragtag, but a nice pick would've been a frontcourt player who could score. Look no further than Shareef Abdur-Rahim who was a master of filling up the score sheet. He was a 20ppg, 8rpg for the first 7-8 years of his career, & only after injuries hit did he slow down & turn into more of a role player. He'll still give a team 10ppg, 5rpg off the bench so he's still solid. Either way, a good pick at this spot & the Nets would've got a lot of good years out of him.

9. Dallas: PF/SF- Antoine Walker (picked #6)

I'd love to put Z here (although he missed his entire rookie season & 3 out of his first 4 due to broken feet) as the Mavs needed a centre, but due to injury & Z being more of an Eastern big man, I'll pass on him. Peja got a look here, but he wouldn't be over for 2 more years, & then would take another couple of years to become a star. The Mavs add another piece to the Triple J's (Jason Kidd, Jim Jackson & Jamal Mashburn). Walker can slot in at PF & Kidd can weave his magic & set up any of the other 3 for easy baskets. Not a lot of D would've been played, but it would've been fun to watch. Shame Mavs wouldn't keep the Triple J's together, but Toine would've at minimum, been a good trading piece for the first half of his career.

10. Indiana: C/PF- Ben Wallace (undrafted)

I really did not think I would be passing on Peja Stojakovic at this spot, but I seem to be. Peja seemed like the ideal fit until I thought of the Davis brothers (not real brothers, but that's what they were). The Pacers already had a good team in the mid-90's. Peja was a few years away, so was Ben Wallace. But I just can't get past the thought of Dale Davis, Antonio Davis & Ben Wallace fighting for rebounds. In the tough & physical East (back then), Wallace was just shoring up their defence that little bit more. I'm sure Reggie can survive without Peja. Sorry Peja.

11. Golden State: SF/SG- Peja Stojakovic (picked #14)

The perfect replacement for when Chris Mullin departs the team. He won't be over for a couple of years, but he'll fit right in & the team won't lose a beat. A great fit & a steal at this pick.

12. Cleveland: C- Zydrunas Ilgauskas (picked #20)

The Cavs need a big man & Z is their man. Makes too much sense at this spot. Who cares if you lose him for a couple of years.

13. Charlotte: C- Erick Dampier (picked #10)

They had Matt Geiger at centre, but they needed more help & insurance inside. At this spot, Dampier is a nice pickup & can fill a hole in the middle.


Two toughest omissions: Kerry Kittles (#8), Derek Fisher (#24).

Three biggest flops: Samaki Walker (#9), Todd Fuller (#11), SF/PF- John Wallace (#18).


The Wallace flop really hurt me. He was one of my fav players of All-Time, but he didn't pan out as well as I would've liked. That's the only reason he is a flop. Either way, the 1996 draft was strong through the lottery, but weak after that.

I'll probably have a few days off before I think about doing the 1995 re-draft.