Chicago Bulls Thread

[-Young Buck-]

Well, it looks like Kobe is going to be a Bull.

Where did you hear this?

If its really likely, Bulls would rule the east with Hinrich, Kobe, Deng, Tyrus, Wallace.

[Indy]

Kobe isn't going to be a Bull. John Paxon does not budge on trades ever. He is not going to give up what LA will want which is going to be Gordon/Deng and the 9th pick. That will be the minimum for LA too.

[---]

I read that Kobe was ready to sit out if he wasn't traded. I would never take essentially Ben Gordon and picks for Kobe if I was the Lakers, but don't you think they are forced into having to do it?

Kobe can also refuse to be traded to certain teams because of that no trade clause. It seems he only wants to be going to Phoenix, Chicago or Dallas right now. Phoenix doesn't appear to be making much of a move. Dallas has the pieces but they were already a 67 win team. Chicago has the pieces and would be willing to give up Ben Gordon and future picks for Kobe.

I still can't see Kobe not being a Laker though, but it seems theres no other way.

[-Young Buck-]

Kobe is just what Dallas needs. Him teaming up with Dirk would be a great duo. But i dont know if Lakers would want to trade him to Dallas. Dallas would probably have to give up Terry and Howard to get him too. Bulls seem like a good place. They could offer Gordon, Nocioni, draft picks, and other fillers. Lakers have to realize if Kobe isnt going to play for them, they wont be selling alot of tickets.

[Andrew]

Well, it looks like Kobe is going to be a Bull. A couple weeks back I was completely opposed to trading a package including Deng and Gordon for Kobe. I still am.

However, I love the idea of Gordon, picks, fillers, etc for Kobe, which the Lakers are pretty much being forced into doing.

As long as the Bulls roster still has the names Tyrus Thomas, Kirk Hinrich and Luol Deng on it, I welcome Kobe and look forward to seeing him in a Bulls jersey.

Where did you hear that?

As far as I can tell, such a trade would be impossible. Kobe for Gordon straight up doesn't come close to working under the salary cap. The only "filler" they can toss in there is Ben Wallace and I doubt the Lakers would want to take on his contract. As I said, even Gordon/Deng/Hinrich/Thomas for Kobe doesn't work under the cap. The "filler" would have to be about half the team including a couple of other players so a scenario involving Ben Gordon, draft picks and filler isn't really feasible (or better than a scenario that specifically lists other core players).

I'd still rather not see the deal happen. What happens in a couple of years if Kobe doesn't like the situation and opts out? I guess you've got to explore the possibility when a player of Kobe's magnitude is reportedly on the market but I don't think it's the deal the Bulls need to make.

[---]

Well it isn't a gaurantee, but with Kobe saying he will not be a Laker any more and meeting with Kupchak recently, sticking by his trade demand, I can't see anyway out.

If I get Kobe on my team and lose Ben Gordon, Ben Wallace and picks/fillers (which LA will probably be bullied into doing, by Kobe) I do it. He's the best individual talent in the game right now, and probably will be for a while yet. However, I still wouldn't be disappointed at all if the trade doesn't go down. I originally didn't want Kobe anywhere near Chicago, but if Kobe's going to force LA to move him to Chicago, we get the better end of it, so why not?

Either way I'm happy.

One part of me says theres no way Kobe remains a Laker and the other half says everything will settle down and Kobe will be a Laker next season. It's a really weird situation.

[Jackal]

Hehe, imagine he does opt out after a few years and re-signs with LA.

Uhm, Kobe's a bitch.

[maes]

I couldn't imagine Shaq not in a LA uniform either, but it happened. And they said Wade was going to be minimum, it got done w/o Wade.

They'll probably keep Kobe all next season and just pray for a change of heart...no reason not to. There won't be serious pressure til his last season.

Well, it looks like Kobe is going to be a Bull.

Where did you hear this?

He may just be reacting to the news of Kobe & Kupchak meeting again on Friday and it not going well at all.

[Andrew]

Well it isn't a gaurantee, but with Kobe saying he will not be a Laker any more and meeting with Kupchak recently, sticking by his trade demand, I can't see anyway out.

I agree it looks like he'll force their hand but it still comes down to a deal that works under the cap. I'm not sure the Lakers would want to take on Ben Wallace's contract unless they absolutely had to do it. Besides, the Lakers still have some time up their sleeve. They don't have to make a deal this offseason.

If Kobe's smart, he won't sit out the entire season as it won't do him any favours. As talented as he is, I'm not sure many teams will look favourably on a superstar who will sit out an entire season because he's unhappy with the situation. In fact, if that's the way he wants to do business, I'd rather he never join the Bulls. As I said, what happens if they trade for him and he's not happy in a couple of years' time, or even before then? Would he sit out or demand another trade? Would he opt out as soon as he got the chance?

If I get Kobe on my team and lose Ben Gordon, Ben Wallace and picks/fillers (which LA will probably be bullied into doing, by Kobe) I do it. He's the best individual talent in the game right now, and probably will be for a while yet. However, I still wouldn't be disappointed at all if the trade doesn't go down. I originally didn't want Kobe anywhere near Chicago, but if Kobe's going to force LA to move him to Chicago, we get the better end of it, so why not?

Again, that's assuming the Lakers would do that deal, which is as I said the only Gordon plus picks and filler trade that is actually possible. But let's say the Lakers are fine with that deal, I'm still not sure of it from the Bulls' persepective because I see Kobe as being quite a risk given the way he's trying to force the Lakers' hand in all this. I wouldn't like to see a young core that's growing together and taken the next step this past season broken up for a player who, while being supremely talented, could very well opt out in two years or pout and demand another trade if displeased with the moves that are being made and/or failure to reach a certain level of success.

After all, who's to say that won't happen? Kobe has spoken at length about wanting to be a Laker for life yet here we are reading about trade demands and speculation that he won't be a Laker come October. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to change his mind but I think it should be a concern for the Bulls just as the Heat were concerned about Shaq opting out when they traded for him in 2004.

I'm still interested to know where you saw that the trade is close to being a done deal though as such a development would be a huge story, yet there doesn't seem to be any mention of it anywhere.

[---]

I didn't read it from the source, but read on the RealGM forums of whats going on from what people have read or heard, mostly radio.

The fact that Kobe still hasn't changed his stance and is still demanding a trade makes it more likely. What makes it worse is the Lakers don't appear to want to give up Odom/Bynum for another star to keep Kobe in town. If Kobe really is serious about this trade demand, I can't see anyway he can possibly stay.

I agree with what your saying about Kobe's attitude. It is a risk, but if Pax manages to snag Kobe and keep most of the core together (Deng, Tyrus, Kirk), I don't think Kobe will be going anywhere. Chicago with a nucleus of those guys plus Kobe basically puts the team atop of the East, especially since Detroit and Miami are beginning to slow down. I don't think Cleveland is a match for this Bulls team, yet alone the post-trade Bulls team.

I have actually never liked Kobe. I have plenty of respect for his game, but I don't like his attitude and his cockiness. I don't like the way he treats his teammates. I don't like the way he publically rips his own organization. I don't like the fact he's essentially giving up on his current team, even if the management is awful.

But he is the best player in the league. Put Kobe in a winning environment as 'the-man' in Chicago and he should be very comfortable. He should be able to trust his teammates in Chicago because they are already great players.

The only thing I'm worried about if this trade goes through is the post presence. We would have an incredibly weak frontcourt, especially since the #9 pick would be gone in such a deal. But hey, if Tyrus developes how we are all hoping, it shouldn't be too bad.

As I said, I'm still in nuetral. If we get Kobe, great. If we don't, that's just fine with me. I love the current core.

[Dan's Brain]

And if the deal goes through, we will at least be seeing Chicago Bulls replica jerseys for sale in Australia again.



Honestly, this trade (potential trade) has me debating with myself a lot. I'm definitely happy and optimistic for the season ahead regardless of whether it goes down or not. It doesnt help the Bulls' biggest weakness at all, but also creates a situation where it can be negated. You get a significant upgrade on both ends at the 2, even if you lose Thabo with Ben Gordon, which would be a certainty. But the team's depth, arguably the biggest strength of the current roster after defence, is essentially kaput.


If this trade goes down, the Bulls are a significant injury away from the lottery. You dont have an insurance policy at any position.


Which is why i wouldnt make the deal. When a young team is already in the upper echelon of the NBA and only looking to develop and improve, why would you fuck it up?

[air gordon]

i don’t care much for duhon but if duhon is a such a valuable asset, the Bulls should have no trouble getting Gasol, KG, or Bryant lol.

Its irrelevant if the players are physically bigger but don’t “play” bigger. Jordan Farmar had the highest vertical amongst last year’s prospects but he doesn’t even use it in his game

Any combination of 2 from the ‘big three’ is not enough salary wise for KG or Gasol btw.

As far as the #24 talks-

Ric Bucher was on chicago’s espn radio station and mentioned he believes that Bryant won’t be returning to the Lakers/Chicago is the only team he wants to go to. He also went on to say that the Lakers wouldn’t trade him to any Western conference team. Dallas or Phoenix would make sense talent & salary wise but Kupcheck (sp) has a rivalry with both teams GMs and never help them out

He also mentioned that since Bryant has the no trade clause, he can veto any deal he thinks would leave the Bulls in a bad situation. LOL what a pretty unique position.

Of course this speculation is all by bucher but he has been following the situation and has better contacts then us.

Probably in the near future we’ll be hearing how the Lakers want hinrich, deng, Gordon, Thomas, and the pick. And then we’ll hear how Pax only wants to give up only 1 of those and doesn’t want to budge. then we'll hear how he and bulls fan overrate their players. It becomes a chess game- as long as Bryant is insistent he won’t play for the Lakers/wants to play for the Bulls, then the Bulls & Pax have all the leverage

[maes]

Hmm i wonder if Chicago could S&T Noc, Tyrus & the 9th pick (assumedly a big man, Hawes/Yi/Noah) for a resigned Rashard Lewis, send out Ben Gordon + Rashard Lewis for Kobe.

Ultimately Chicago loses Ben, Noc, Tyrus, 9th pick for Bryant. Leaves Hinrich, Bryant, Deng, Ben Wallace but a gaping hole at PF. But getting a PF is easier than getting a legit superstar in his physical prime.

LA gets Ben Gordon & Rashard Lewis. Can you see any other team matching that offer? That's 45 ppg on 46% FG shooting...statistically LA trades in more than what they trade out.

Sonics gets Noc to fill in for Lewis but eventually Durant takes over that spot, and for the first time in many years 2 good paint players. If Hawes, huge marketing boon as he's a Seattle favorite. If Yi, it works out perfectly as Seattle has a huge Asian population like San Fran. If Noah...er moving on.

That being said i'd probably cry to see some of my favorite players traded out of their teams.

[magius]

Its irrelevant if the players are physically bigger but don’t “play” bigger. Jordan Farmar had the highest vertical amongst last year’s prospects but he doesn’t even use it in his game

Not true, physical size matters for the purposes of shooting over people, and seeing passing lanes more easily. As well, the bigger you are, usually the lengthier you are, so you can also close passing lanes defensively and make it harder for an opponent to go around you. Not to mention that generally a 6'8 player will have an easier time of getting rebounds than someone 5'10. Also size matters in terms of blocking shots and creating deflections.

again, i am not saying duhon is a star asset. I just think he could become an eric snow like player with perhaps better range.

well, hinrich's salary jumps to 11 mill this coming year right? so i think him and someone like sweetney could cover gasol who is at 13. garnett would probably be harder to match up. hinrich and gordon would hit up to 15, hinrich and deng 14, so you'd probably need some filler, i hesitate to say whom depending on who is signed and resigned for the coming year.

ben wallace is eating up basically a third of the entire salary. that is incredible.

[air gordon]

Hmm i wonder if Chicago could S&T Noc, Tyrus & the 9th pick (assumedly a big man, Hawes/Yi/Noah) for a resigned Rashard Lewis, send out Ben Gordon + Rashard Lewis for Kobe.

Ultimately Chicago loses Ben, Noc, Tyrus, 9th pick for Bryant. Leaves Hinrich, Bryant, Deng, Ben Wallace but a gaping hole at PF. But getting a PF is easier than getting a legit superstar in his physical prime.

LA gets Ben Gordon & Rashard Lewis. Can you see any other team matching that offer? That's 45 ppg on 46% FG shooting...statistically LA trades in more than what they trade out.

Sonics gets Noc to fill in for Lewis but eventually Durant takes over that spot, and for the first time in many years 2 good paint players. If Hawes, huge marketing boon as he's a Seattle favorite. If Yi, it works out perfectly as Seattle has a huge Asian population like San Fran. If Noah...er moving on.

That being said i'd probably cry to see some of my favorite players traded out of their teams.

that's a hellavua proposal there hehe. imo i'm not sure if Paxson would be willing to give up BOTH Tyrus and the #9 pick.. leaving that aforementioned hole @pf. it's a gutsy move especially with wallace's age and not to many resources after the trade to fill that need

The only thing I'm worried about if this trade goes through is the post presence. We would have an incredibly weak frontcourt, especially since the #9 pick would be gone in such a deal. But hey, if Tyrus developes how we are all hoping, it shouldn't be too bad.

possible attitude issues aside, i think what's paramount here is the fact that the Bulls would acquire someone that finally requires a double team. you've seen those games where Gordon would get hot- he could carry the team on his back for stretches, which would in turn open things up for the rest of the team.

magius- specifically talking about the bulls backcourt here....hinrich has a long standing reach & and athleticism to go along with his great defense. 6'8 or 6'3, it doesn't matter- he can get stops. Gordon for the most part defends PG's anyway

are we still talking about Duhon with you using the "if you pair him next to a star guard" argument? lol obviously if ou pair an average player next to a stud, that stud will make that average player look better. steve blake all of a sudden is a hero paried with iverson and 'melo. and i'm not even sure denver would trade blake for duhon lol

thanks for mentioning Wallace's contract, which btw is front-loaded. he makes $15.5 mil next year. the Bulls should be spending at least ~$50 mil after their done using the LLE, MLE, sign the draft picks redo your math http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

draft is in 4 days? any suggestions for the bulls 2 2nd round picks? i haven't really been following that

[magius]

are we still talking about Duhon with you using the "if you pair him next to a star guard" argument? lol obviously if ou pair an average player next to a stud, that stud will make that average player look better. steve blake all of a sudden is a hero paried with iverson and 'melo. and i'm not even sure denver would trade blake for duhon lol

still? that's all I was ever saying. no, you can't just pair any average player next to a star, there are certain players that are just more effective in said situation - for the star and for themselves. For example, rafer alston is not a preferred "average player" to pair with a star.

i wouldn't call hinrich a great defensive player, more like a good one. gordon can only handle the pg, and even then not spectacularly to say the least.

anyway, if you're fine with the bulls backcourt that is fine. i guess time will tell, but i personally think it is a safe bet that building around a core of gordon, hinrich, deng will garner zero championships.

hanks for mentioning Wallace's contract, which btw is front-loaded. he makes $15.5 mil next year. the Bulls should be spending at least ~$50 mil after their done using the LLE, MLE, sign the draft picks redo your math Wink http://hoopshype.com/salaries/chicago.htm

you really want me to say 0.310 or whatever the number, hypothetically could be? i think its reasonable to say a third.

[Fenix]

draft is in 4 days? any suggestions for the bulls 2 2nd round picks? i haven't really been following that

Peteri Koponnen (a big, pass first PG with potential to be something special), Nick Fazekas (a jumpshooting big man, but he's so ridiculously good at it). I just hope at least one of them will still be there when we pick.

[Ashman23]

I heard hear in Melbourne last night on SEN a 'rumor' from a guy who rang up and reckoned Wallace, Gordon and Nocioni for Kobe was on the cards. There wasn't any reference to it (but names are flying this time of year). The radio guys (SEN) played it down because mainly LA needs a Kobe, Wade, Shaq type that bring in people to watch them play. If Kobe goes for the above mentioned names, who's the 'show-time' in LA.

The only way he comes to Chitown is if he sits and LA just want him gone for anything, then Paxson can play hardball a get a deal done that suits the Bulls.

[maes]

draft is in 4 days? any suggestions for the bulls 2 2nd round picks? i haven't really been following that

Peteri Koponnen (a big, pass first PG with potential to be something special), Nick Fazekas (a jumpshooting big man, but he's so ridiculously good at it). I just hope at least one of them will still be there when we pick.

I'd love to see either fall the Bulls but i think that's highly unlikely. Koponen's been skyrocketing up and with the drought of PGs in this year's draft, i can see him actually going 1st round. At the very least, the Sonics pick him with the Memphis' 31st pick as everyone wants to get rid of Watson.

One thing is clear, Paxson is shopping for a PG hard he's worked out all these possible PGs:
Sean Singletary
Jameson Curry
Bobby Brown
Aaron Brooks
DJ Strawberry
Taurean Green

From the workout list it looks like he's mainly interested in Point & bigs. Glen Davis would be great on the Bulls.

[---]

Jesus, this Kobe shit is all over the place.

Unlikely that Kobe will be a Bull

I guess the asking price involved Gordon + Deng, which Pax would never give up (both of them I mean). With the KG rumor, Kobe may now be convinced to stay. But if one of those four teams pull out and Kobe is now getting no help, Kobe to Chicago will e front page on ESPN.com again.

EDIT:

As far as the draft goes, I want Spencer Hawes. Brandan Wright would be nice, but I don't see him falling as far as some mocks do.

#9 - Spencer Hawes, Washington
#49 - Herbert Hill, Providence
#51 - DJ Strawberry, Maryland

However I would buch rather trade #49 and #51 for a high second round pick. If we could trade our second rounders plus Khryapa or someone for a top 10 second rounder, that would be great. I really want Demetris Nichols.

[Dean]

God i hope Chicago drafts DJ Strawberry, just so i can get a Uni with STRAWBERRY on the back haha

[shadowgrin]

Nothing beats out GAY on the back of a uni.
Best. Ever.

Unless someone comes along with JESUS on the back of the uni.

[Jackal]

Come on, we all know Mexican'ts can't play ball.

[maes]

Kobe
I agree that a 3rd team needs to be involved to get a flashy star for Kobe, LA won't do it for any # of good, solid winning players like the Bulls have...otherwise LA wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. I still think Kobe plays in LA for 1 more full season...then LA just panics when Kobe opts out the next.

4 Team Trade
I'm not buying the crazy 4 team trade.
1. KG won't play in Boston.
2. JON won't play in Boston.
3. If traded w/o consent, JON opts out immediately, KG in 1 year.
4. Indiana requires Bynum.
5. Minnesota requires Al Jefferson.

There's so much wrong w/ the 4 team that i don't know what those 4 teams are thinking.

Draft
I read the Bulls worked out Spencer Hawes again. I can't tell if this is a good or bad thing for Hawes...does this mean they like him? Or does this mean there is some concern/division about drafting him so they brought him back in for a 2nd look?

[beau_boy04]

If the Bulls don't move up in the draft then I see them taking:

1. Drafting Hawes because he fills our need
2. Drafting Yi if available, maybe even over Hawes, only if Pax believes he could play the 4/5 in the NBA ala Okur (Utah Jazz). He's got a hell of a lot more potential than unathletic Hawes, I also read his vertical jump is 38"
3. Trading assets such as Duhon, Nocioni, + this year second rounds picks and maybe next season first round picks in order to move up and grab another high/mid first round pick. Nick Young maybe?

Thanks.