Trade advice needed

Talk about NBA Live 2005 here.

Postby asgsjb on Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:21 am

As cap space is a goal, then moving Shaq would be a step towards getting several cheaper players who collectively add up to the right salary amount, and then moving the most expensive of those for a few cheaper players, and so on until I get a team that is quality and cost-effective at the same time.

With Stoudemire's favorable contract and youth, and with only David West as a backup PF, I'd hate to trade him unless in the end I was to end up with a PF like Okafor, Howard, Sweetney or the like...also young, talented and cheap. In my other league where I traded Stoudemire, I had Okafor as a backup and was able to shift him to the starting role. But here, I'd only have David West to start at PF for me.

The Odom/Jones/Kaman deal is not a great one, but the concept behind it was a good one I think...I get a young, cheap center to replace Shaq and get 2 trading pieces in Odom and Jones. Again, not a great deal because I downgrade too much, but I think that kind of deal is what might be a good way to fix the cap on this team. If I was to be able to do that with another team where the pieces I get back are better than this threesome, it would be worth it.

With that theory in mind, I look at all the expensive 80+ ranked players I would potentially acquire to be potential trade bait. So getting Baron Davis is not designed to get me Davis as my PG, but to get a good trade piece, I think...but Ilgauskas is tough to trade at that price. Garnett could be an easy sell, but Jefferson (75 rank and $10.96M) might be tougher. Iverson, Ray Allen, Bibby, Pierce, J.O'Neal, etc. should all be tradeable, while Wally and Van Horn may be tougher to move.

Frankly, Stoudemire is the only player on this team of mine that I like for how I like to build a team (too bad I didn't devise that plan on how to build a team before drafting this team). Tinsley is not a bad PG and I have enjoyed using him, but I could do better. Korver is a good 3rd SG/SF. And Childress is a decent, although unspectacular, backup SG. Otherwise...I need a cheaper backup PG than Norris, Finley is too expensive and old, Kittles sucks in Live '05, McCarty is good, but old, Willaimson sucks, West is a weak PF in Live '05, Shaq is too old and expensive, and Bradley is just average. I'd likely trade everyone other than Stoudemire to get the type of players I like.

In the end, maybe your method with your 1st fantasy draft is the wise way of going. I have 2 fantasy draft dynasties that make sense and where I can be GM, and I have my #1 dynasty...my Knicks dynasty... to occupy my time. Maybe I should just trash this dynasty (with Shaq) and chalk it up to inexperienced, poor drafting. After all, I wouldn't have drafted any of these guys today other than Stoudemire. Then I can focus on my Knicks dynasty and the other 2 fantasy dynasties and enjoy...why play with a team that you don't enjoy, right?

Let me move onto one of those other fantasy dynasties for another trade chat. That team is:

PG: Jaric, Ridnour, Ollie
SG: Kobe, Battier, Jacobsen
SF: Artest, Josh Smith, Korver
PF: Okafor, Biedrins, Milicic
C: Ming, Bosh, Harrison

I tried working some quick deals to net Anthony or Kirilenko, but I'd need to do some broader swapping before getting pieces their respective teams would want. However, I know I could trade Battier for Eddy Curry and I could trade Battier/Biedrins for Jamal Crawford. I would then swap likely use Curry or Crawford, as the case may be, to try to get Anthony or some other choice target. Thoughts on this? Thoughts on the structure of my team as it currently is?

With all the back-and-forth, I'm not sure I have a full perspective on what you're doing team-wise. How many dynasties do you have going? How far into them are you? It sounds like you have a mix of fantasy drafts and actual teams...what do you have going? What do the rosters look like? Etc.
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Postby JT_55 on Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:37 am

I say trash that Dynasty. It's all but useless and, like you said, why play a Dynasty that you don't enjoy? If you do keep playing this Dynasty, it going to be tough to make trades if you won't let Stoudemire go. He's your best trade piece.

With the exception of Jaric and your third stringers, I wouldn't move anyone from your team. Except those two, every starter is 70+ and all the backups are soild young players (I'm not too familiar with Biedrins). You will have to move Artest if you want Anthony, so can you tell me what position the team that drafted Anthony is weak in?

I have 7 Dynastys (2 Houston- both third year, 2 Detroit- both first year, a Knicks- first year, a Charlotte- third year, and a fantasty team-never touched it yet). I'll PM you the rosters to avoid boring the other readers.
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Postby asgsjb on Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:18 pm

Yup, I messed around with the dynasty with Shaq just a bit more tonight, but found it to be frustrating, so I deleted it.

I like the team I last listed for you. Pretty much set at the 1st 2 spots at each position, although Biedrins is a bit of a weaker PF2. However, I can use Bosh as the backup at both C and PF, so Biedrins was actually disposable. Turns out that since PG is probably my weakest spot, I moved Biedrins (54 rank) to Miami for Leandro Barbosa (57 rank, PG). Great all-around PG. So now I have Ridnour, Jaric and Barbosa at PG and that position now seems stronger. I have Ollie there too, but he is completely disposable now. I could likely trade Ollie for Mbenga or the like, or I can just drop him...he was a free agent pickup anyway. After moving Biedrins, I now have Okafor and Milicic at PF and Ming, Bosh and Harrison at C, and Bosh can play PF too. Sweet.

As for the team with Anthony, it's Atlanta. They look like this:

PG: Andre Miller (70 rank, 28 yrs. old, 5.76M over 5 yrs.)
PG: House (57 rank, 26 yrs. old, 825K over 1 yr.)
SG: Jamal Crawford (72 rank, 24 yrs. old, 5.80M over 7 yrs.)
SG: Snyder (59 rank, 19 yrs. old, 1.34M over 4 yrs.)
SG: Dial (51 rank, 28 yrs. old, 807K over 1 yr.)
SF: Anthony (80 rank, 20 yrs. old, 3.47M over 3 yrs.)
SF: Nocioni (61 rank, 24 yrs. old, 1.40M over 3 yrs.)
SF: Barnes (53 rank, 24 yrs. old, 695K over 1 yr.)
PF: PJ Brown (64 rank, 35 yrs. old, 8M over 3 yrs.)
PF: David West (57 rank, 24 yrs. old, 1.25M over 3 yrs.)
C: Nesterovic (59 rank, 28 yrs. old, 6.16M over 5 yrs.)
C: Diop (51 rank, 22 yrs. old, 2.70M over 1 yr.)

They are 5.64M under the cap and have 3 rsoter spaces open. His starting SG is great, but his backups are iffy. His PF's are relatively weak, especially as Brown will probably retire this year. His C's are the weakest category, in my opinion.

Anything you see for a good trade to get Anthony?

7 dynasties...wow, that's a ton. Houston is an interesting dynasty to do...Ming and McGrady have to make that a blast. Detroit is a powerhouse...probably makes the game too easy. Knicks is a tough project...I certainly know that from my Knicks dynasty. Charlotte has to be fun...great cap room, a lot of expiring contracts, and a great young PF in Okafor. I am guessing the fantasy team is the one you drafted the other day?

Curious to see how your rosters shape out.
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Postby JT_55 on Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:04 pm

1. Artest for Ben Wallace (add in salaries as nessesary), then Wallace for Anthony straight up.
2. Yao for Anthony straight up, then Artest and filler for Yao

Yes, the fantasy draft was the one I drafted the other day.

I already sent you my rosters using Private Messaging. You know where the logout button is? Well, immediately to the right is the check private messages button. My rosters should be there (barring some technical difficuties).
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Postby asgsjb on Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Got it. Wow! Those are pretty all-star teams you managed to put together. Not easy to do, either, as you usually eventually run out of players at the end of your bench solid enough to get much better players, but you managed to do it. Good job.

So before I deleted the Shaq-led fantasy dynasty, I simmed them through the entire year to get to the offseason, just to see it for the 1st time. Pretty cool. The draft is OK, but the free agent signings and trade period is interesting, especially as you see what players' salaries move to. I guess every contract we presently have is weighed so that it increases each year throughout the term of the contract. Interesting.

Messing around again, I just quickly ran through another fantasy draft...one I didn't end up saving, but I just wanted to see what I could do for fun. I managed to get a team that was $17M under the cap. It had Ming, Stoudemire, Chandler, Jaric, Stephen Jackson, Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith, Barbosa and a bunch of others I don't recall now. Anyway, nobody was more than $5M and most were under $2.5M. You can certainly draft a better team if you get one of the $14M+ SG's (Bryant, McGrady) or a PF like Brand or Jermaine O'Neal, but dollar for dollar, the team would have been competitive and would have enabled me to shoot for a cool free agent in the offseason, which is something I cannot do with any of my current teams and their salaries. I ended up not saving it, but then kind of regretted it, as it would have been interesting to see if it would have been a competitive team had I played with them. I may try to recreate a similar draft soon.

I also started messing around with looking at the dollars and rankings in more organized fashion. It is interesting:

- None of the few players ranked in the 90's are good value. They are great players to have if you are not concerned with the cap or at the least, if this is the only player on your roster with this kind of money. The list includes Garnett, Hobe, Shaq, Duncan and McGrady. All could be a cornerstone for your team, but each are over $14M...and the salaries go up each year.

- With the longer list of players ranked in the 80's (21 of them), most are similarly poor value for cap purposes. The exceptions are: LeBron James (84 rank, 20 yrs. old, 4.32M, 3 yrs.), Kirilenko (83 rank, 23 yrs. old, 1.67M, 1 yr.), Gasol (82 rank, 24 yrs. old, 4.32M, 1 yr.), Anthony (80 rank, 20 yrs. old, 3.47M, 3 yrs.), and Ming (80 rank, 24 yrs. old, 4.44M, 2 yrs.), with Rasheed Wallace (81 rank, 30 yrs. old, 9.12M, 5 yrs.) and Stojakovic (81 rank, 27 yrs. old, 6.98M, 2 yrs.) being slightly older, more expensive possibilities. With only James, Anthony and Ming being locked in for more than 1 year out of the inexpensive options, they are the best bang for the buck out of players in the 80's. Now I fully understand why you keep going after Anthony and Ming...great bargains!

- There are 46 players ranked in the 70's, and there is a mixed bag of value and "lack of value". Some of the best bets who are signed for more than 1 year include: Redd (78 rank, 25 yrs. old, 3.00M, 2 yrs.), Wade (76 rank, 23 yrs. old, 2.83M, 3 yrs.), A.Stoudemire (76 rank, 22 yrs. old, 2.03M, 2 yrs.), and Okafor (70 rank, 22 yrs. old, 3.74M, 4 yrs.). Slightly more expensive options include: Artest (72 rank, 25 yrs. old, 5.85M, 4 yrs), J.Crawford (72 rank, 24 yrs. old, 5.80M, 7 yrs.), Billups (71 rank, 28 yrs. old, 5.46M, 4 yrs.), Ricky Davis (70 rank, 25 yrs. old, 5.45M, 4 yrs.), Andre Miller (70 rank, 28 yrs. old, 5.76M, 5 yrs.), Posey (70 rank, 28 yrs. old, 5.41M, 3 yrs.), Ben Wallace (77 rank, 30 yrs. old, 6.00M, 2 yrs.), Maggette (76 rank, 25 yrs. old, 6.16M, 5 yrs.), R.Lewis (76 rank, 25 yrs. old, 7.80M, 4 yrs.), and Camby (70 rank, 30 yrs. old, 6.50M, 6 yrs.

- I didn't yet go down to the players ranked in the 60's, but clearly players like Howard, Bosh, Chandler, Curry, Josh Howard, Battier, Mike Miller, and Magloire come immediately to mind.

The nutshell of this: If you don't care about the cap or only want 1 player who is pricey, then going for the players ranked in the 90's or most ranked in the 80's works fine...getting Kobe or Garnett or Pierce will always help your team. But if you want to combine quality with price and want to keep the cap reasonable, I think the best bet is to focus on the 3 key guys ranked in the 80's (James, Anthony and Ming) and fill in with reasonably prices players in the 70's and 60's. I think a great pair to get for the 1st two rounds is Ming in the 1st and Amare Stoudemire in the 2nd (6.47M for the pair, both locked in for 2 yrs.). You then add a few pieces like Redd (SG), Wade (PG), Artest (SF), Crawford (SG), Billups (PG), Okafor (PF) or Posey (SF) in their 70's or Howard, Bosh and the others listed above in the 60's, and you've got a killer team that's reasonably priced and cap-friendly. Obviously, this works great if you are looking to draft a team that works from the start. But clearly, you can draft more expensive players and start working deals to then bring in less expensive players who you like.

I think I'm going to try a draft or two with this info in hand.
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Postby JT_55 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:20 am

Thanks for the compliment. It's not that hard to do once you understand the concept of trading in this game. I also use a different trading strategy. You know how some teams shop players around to see if there are any takers? Well, I do something like that. For example, let's say I want to trade away Eddie House for a better backup PG. I scroll around the teams to see if his interest bar goes up in that team. If it does, then I look for a player higher in ratings than he, in this case Houston, with Scott Padgett. So I trade House for Padgett straight up and I get a 3 rating gain. But I don't need Padgett, so I shop him around. Turns out the Pacers need a SF, so I trade Padgett for Tinsley. There! I just got a 6 point gain with my two trades. I keep doing that until I get the player I want. Also, 3 for 1 trades are very good.

Unless you're playing Charlotte or using a fantasy draft, it's really hard to get rid of the big contract players. I tried to trade T-Mac for Lebron once but the Cavs didn't have enough big contract players to fill the gap. I even tried re-routing the trade (Yao for Lebron, then T-Mac for Yao and some other guys). The first trade was not supposed to work. The only reason they accepted Yao for Lebron was that they forgot Z was in their roster and put Gooden at C.

Yes, that is the reason why I always get Melo and Yao, but I still haven't figured out a surefire way to get Lebron. In my Charlotte Dynasty, I got him for D-Wade (although a good trade, D-Wade was a bit too high a price for him). Then, I had to trade T-Mac for Denver's Andre Miller and Camby. I worked my way back up to Wade, but it took a long time.

Great research. I appreciate you taking your time and looking up all these stats. I would never have done that myself, I'm too lazy.
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Postby asgsjb on Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:05 am

Thanks for the return compliment. I enjoyed doing the research...the assessment followed by action is part of the GM fun.

Moved onto the 60-rated players...96 of them! Best buys include: Howard (69 rank, 19 yrs. old, 4.18M, 4 yrs.), M.Miller (68 rank, 24 yrs. old, 5.00M, 6 yrs.), Hinrich (67 rank, 24 yrs. old, 2.28M, 3 yrs.), Josh Howard (huge bargain at 67 rank, 24 yrs old, 824K, 3 yrs.), Magloire (67 rank, 26 yrs. old, 5.00M, 3 yrs.), Curry (66 rank, 22 yrs. old, 3.90M, 1 yr.), Gooden (66 rank, 23 yrs old, 3.21M, 2 yrs.), Battier (66 rank, 26 yrs old, 3.21M, 6 yrs.), B.Gordon (65 rank, 21 yrs old, 3.36M, 4 yrs....but height-impaired), Prince (65 rank, 24 yrs old, 4.19M, 2 yrs.), Bosh (65 rank, 20 yrs. old, 3.13M, 3 yrs), Chandler (64 rank, 22 yrs old, 4.80M, 1 yr.), Joe Johnson (64 rank, 23 yrs old, 2.36M, 1 yr), Dunleavy (63 rank, 24 yrs old, 3.57M, 2 yrs.), Tinsley (63 rank, 26 yrs old, 1.55M, 1 yr.), Peterson (63 rank, 27 yrs old, 5.00M, 3 yrs.), Gerald Wallace (62 rank, 22 yrs old, 1.38M, 1 yr), Childress (62 rank, 21 yrs old, 2.49M, 4 yrs), S.Jackson (62 rank, 26 yrs old, 4.90M, 6 yrs.), Iguodala (62 rank, 21 yrs old, 1.91M, 4 yrs....but I hear he develops poorly compared to real life), Alston (62 rank, 28 yrs old, 3.50M, 6 yrs), Nocioni (61 rank, 25 yrs old, 1.40M, 3 yrs.), C.Butler (61 rank, 24 yrs old, 1.92M, 2 yrs), Arroyo (61 rank, 25 yrs old, 3.37M, 4 yrs), Hayes (61 rank, 23 yrs old, 1.88M, 3 yrs.), M.Daniels (60 rank, 24 yrs old, 4.90M, 6 yrs), Nene (60 rank, 22 yrs old, 2.41M, 2 yrs), Jaric (60 rank, 26 yrs old, 2.10M, 2 yrs), Ford (60 rank, 21 yrs old, 2.15M, 3 yrs.), Glover (60 rank, 26 yrs old, 808K, 1 yr.), Giricek (60 rank, 27 yrs old, 4.00M, 4 yrs), R.Bell (60 rank, 28 yrs old, 825K, 1 yr), and Etan Thomas (60 rank, 26 yrs old, 4.90M, 6 yrs.). As stated in prior posting, the expiring contracts will have different numbers next year, many of them being higher.

I won't do the players in the 50's, but you certainly have to think of players like Deng and Kaman when you think about good values in the 50's.

So there are some good gems if one wants to put together a competitive team and keep under the cap.

You say you are too lazy, but instead, I give you credit for patience. Your method of dealing is very patient and well-thought out. I've thought of doing that too, but when I think of the fact that I may trade for a player I want to then move and then cannot find a buyer or that I may move a center, for example, and then can't find a deal to get a new center and am now stuck with a semi-crappy center...that's tough for me, especially as I do like to play most of the games. So I could try to move Ming to then get Anthony...but what if I can't get Ming back or can't get a worthwhile substitute? That's the part that prevents me from being as risky and patient as you are with the deals. That's why when you look at the deals I throw by you, I am usually getting back a player at the position I am trading away...unless I have a surplus at that spot, of course. So that Shaq deal I was tossing about (for Odom/Jones/Kaman)...getting back Kaman was a key component. Before erasing that league, I did successfully swap Shaq and Stoudemire for Garnett and Jefferson...leaving me Bradley for a starting C. I couldn't move Jefferson for anybody, surprising as that is, and I couldn't manage to land a worthwhile center. I also couldn't get Stoudemire back. I likely didn't try enough steps, but it was the inability to get a center or to move Jefferson that makes me hesitate in taking the long and winding road to deals. Again, I give you credit for that.
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Postby JT_55 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:37 am

Who told you Iguodala develops poorly? Ok, maybe not as good as real life but he is 66 next year, an above-average 4 point gain.

Josh Howard is the best bargain, but he resides in Dallas who has no weak link, so it's tough to get him. I think the best bet that are easy to get are Iguodala, Childress, and Hinrich. I always end up trading them for better players, though. Maybe that's why my teams are always like 20-30M ove cap.

Me?! Patient? Wow, I never thought of that. Anyway, I've got a piece of advice for you: DON'T WORRY! You brought up the Yao-Anthony trade. It's going to work. After you take away Anthony, they are going to be short on SF's. So there may be a chance they will take Artest for Yao straight up. If they don't, pop in a filler. If they still don't, give them 2 fillers. And if all else fails, give them back Anthony for Yao. They'll take it.

There's another reason why you shouldn't worry. Let's say that in my example, no one wants Padgett. That's not a problem. Yes, I'm stuck with one less PG and one more SF, but the fact that I traded up gives me more leverage. See, if I can't move Padgett for anybody higher than him, I could just trade for somone lower than him taking consolence in the fact that I could always trade up again with that new player. Is that what you mean by being patient?
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Postby asgsjb on Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:09 am

What I meant is that you are patient in going about getting the players you want. I want to get them right away in 1 deal or else I am frustrated and move to another deal...you are willing to take your time to get them, whether it is 3 deals or 10 deals. You ultimately get you player. You are also willing to be "short" at a position for a while if it gets you the guy you want, while I am impatient and don't want any holes at any time. You are much more patient than me in that regards.

Like you pointed out, Howard is a great deal and is tough to get if you're doing a regular dynasty and he is with Dallas. His incredibly low salary at that overall rating is unparalleled, so it is tough to work a deal. But if you draft him in a fantasy draft, it's a sweet deal. I am going to target him in 1 of my upcoming draft attempts.

Someone mentioned the Iguodala thing in one of the posts on this site...I don't remember who and where exactly. But I then looked at Iguodala's stats and they're not incredibly impressive. For outside shooting, his 48 FG rating is low and his 29 rating for 3's is horrible. He is not quick (62) or fast (59) enough to dodge defenders or get around them and his 45 in dribbling means he will likely toss up the ball occasionally if he tries getting fancy. Going to the hoop, he can jump and dunk, but he's not fast or quick enough to get past the defender to get to the hoop and he's among the weaker (49 strength) SG's and won't be able to muscle through. He is not very offensively aware (38) and is average with steals (55) on the defensive side. And even though he is young and can be developed, I'm not sure he can be developed in the short run sufficiently to where his Live '05 self performs to the levels of the real Iguodala. His speed will not get to the upper 70's or low 80's any time soon, his steals won't get to the 70's or 80's soon, his shooting will not get to the upper 60's or low 70's soon, etc. In the end, some may love playing with him...but I like my SG's to be accurate shooters, to be able to hit the 3, to be able to quickly and speedily get to the hoop if needed and, if lucky, also defend. Even Childress is a slightly better option in my view than Iguodala to the extent that while most of their stats are very similar, Childress is far faster (75) and quicker (80) and can get around a defender and to the hoop for the dunk. Stephen Jackson is another better option at that rating level, with his FG accuracy, 3's, and steals. I might also lean towards Peterson (63 rank) over Iguodala and certainly would bump it up to Battier (66 rank) if I could. What's interesting is that I'd take Iguodala over most of those guys if I was an actual NBA coach...but in Live '05, they didn't do a good job on getting his value right (unless they fixed his stats on a patch I haven't used). So I tend to steer clear of him. Now the counterpoint to all this is that he is a 62 rating and if you get him with the purpose of making him trade bait (and you've swapped a lower-rated player to get him), then he could be valuable. But I don't think he fits my SG mold as a player.

Good points on the swaps, by the way. I just have to get past my old perspectives and implementing what you are suggesting.
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Postby JT_55 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:42 am

Well, I can use my trade style because I don't play most of my games. I don't care if I have temporary holes as long as my boxscore has a W on it.

Yes, I agree with you on Iguodala. EA should do a better job of scouting players and see how good/bad players are. I never play with him (and probably never will) but my point was that his overall rating will go up by quite a bit and his development isn't too bad although he doesn't have much to start with. I mostly use him to trade for Anthony.
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Postby asgsjb on Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:52 am

He does make good trade bait, that's true.

I have to strike a balance between playing and simming. Playing a full game (I have it at 10 minute quarters) takes a long time, so getting through a season takes forever. But I like making sure everyone gets points so I max out on the development points. What I need to do is sim the 1st half or 3 quarters and then intervene and play the rest of the game. I'll get through the season much quicker that way.
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Postby JT_55 on Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:01 am

I do the same, but only with close games. If my team is leading by 20+ heading into the fourth, I don't bother intervening.

What do you like to do with your Dynasty points? Do you train, buy Dynasty Extras, or scout a lot?
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Postby asgsjb on Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:21 pm

I train mostly, and then I scout. Still haven't decided if I like individual training or team training better than the other. I guess it depends on if I have a young team, all of whom need training, as compared to a mix of young and old players where I only want to train the young ones.

Did another fantasy draft dynasty tonight and really worked on trading. Mixed bag...the positive side is that I formed an all-star team of sorts, and the negative side is that an all-star team is too easy to play with. Here's what I started with after the draft:

PG: Ridnour, Barbosa, Blake
SG: Redd, Petrius...added Jacobsen as free agent
SF: Deng, Josh Smith...added Korver as free agent
PF: Okafor, Chandler...added Milicic as free agent
C: Ming, Kaman, Podkolzin

A real decent team.

I then started trading and adding free agents to fill empty roster spots. Here are some of the key deals:

- I traded Milicic/M.Bradley for Nocioni
- I traded Ming for Brand
- I traded Okafor/Nocioni to get Ming back
- I traded Deng/Haslem for Gerald Wallace
- I traded Travis Outlaw/Evans to get Deng back
- I traded Korver for Shawn Bradley
- I traded Deng/Bradley for Artest
- I traded Petrius/Podkolzin for Josh Howard
- I traded Howard/Dahntay Jones for Wade
- I traded Tskitishvili for Kapono
- I traded Kapono/Buford/Jacobsen for Sweetney
- I traded Samaki Walker/Tyrone Hill for Jiri Welsch
- I traded Welsch straight up to get Petrius back

So my team now stands as follows:

PG: Wade, Ridnour, Barbosa, Blake
SG: Redd, Petrius...I can play Wade here too if needed
SF: Artest, G.Wallace, J.Smith
PF: Brand, Chandler, Sweetney
C: Ming, Kaman

I think I have pretty much run out of deals to make. My team has a 98 ranking when I see the head to head team rankings. What's funny is that I simmed the whole time I was trading, and the computer helped me go to a .500 record after one month...despite this awesome team. If I had played the games myself, I would have dominated.

Also, with this team, I am only 1.15M over the cap. Pretty crazy, right?
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Postby JT_55 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:52 am

From a pure mathematical standpoint, it's a good deal training the team if you have 3 or more young players. From a psychological (did I spell that right?) standpoint, team training is also good because there is always someone who gains stats so you won't feel like you wasted any Dynsty points.

Crazy team. That's what I'm taking about! If you consider it too easy playnig with an all-star lineup, then why don't you play on superstar level?

You make great trades but don't forget to exploit the other teams weakness. But looking at your trades, I actually learned something. I'm not kidding, but I didn't know before that 2 for 1 trades could get as big an upgrade as you got. Like the Artest trade (two 50s for a 75) and the Josh Howard trade (a ~50 and a 46 for a 64). Maybe if we try combining your style with my style, we could get a team with Shaq, KG, Vince Carter, Kobe, and Baron Davis. It'll be a billion above cap, but it should be worth it.

Never say you've run out of deals. It's a 98 team and the backups are fine, but your guys (except for Redd and Barbosa) can't shoot a 3 with confidence. Ridnour is okay, but there is no 3 point specialist on the bench. I always get the same problem as most of my players can both defend and dunk but can't shoot a 3. Getting Korver or Kapono back, trading for Hinrich, Mo Pete, or even Radmanovic would give your team another 3 point threat.

Isn't Wade a bit too short to play SG? At 6'4", even Kobe can block him.

That's wierd. I never had a problem with the computer simming results. Maybe you should go back to intervening the 4th quarter.
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Postby asgsjb on Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:45 am

Good point with the training. And you did spell it right. :)

Another good point about the 3's. Petrius does have a 74 rating with 3's, which is about Kobe level, but I would like to get another shooter with an 8+ rating in 3's. Perhaps moving Ridnour for Hinrich (which I had also thought about) would be the way, or I could move Blake (as I have Ridnour, Barbosa and Wade at PG also) for another 3-point threat. If Redd was to go down with injury, I'd hate to just rely on Barbosa and Petrius for long-range shooting.

Wade is too short for SG in terms of shooting over a defender. But he's fast and quick enough and is a good enough dunker to get around a defending SG and take the ball to the hoop. Or he can take good advantage of a nice pick and roll. I do prefer him at PG, though.

The key I found to the dramatic move up in a 2-for-1 is to have at least 1 player (preferably the lower-ranked one) be in high demand. With the Bradley/Deng for Artest deal, the other team was starved for a center and really wanted Bradley. I then saw he had Artest and thought I could offer Deng with Bradley to get Artest...and it worked. With the Howard deal, the other team really wanted a SF, so offering a lesser SG (Petrius) with Deng made the deal work. The other perk was that they were below the cap and could absorb the larger salaries.

So a few questions/conversation points:

1. Which players do you like playing with over others? I found that Redd is a blast to play with...he is locked in when he shoots the 3 (an 85 rating there) and can also take it to the hoop. And he's real cheap for his overall rank. He's been double-teamed and I've managed to have him shoot the 3 over both defenders. Very cool. Brand is another that's a blast to play with...nobody can stop him when he gets the ball in the paint. Ming is another favorite. Kobe is a blast. I'd play with those 4 any day. J-Will is a blast at PG....fast and a great defender and shooter. I like Gerald Wallace and Josh Smith at SF...fast, great dunkers and good defenders. At PF, I like playing Okafor and Sweetney...Chandler is surprisingly fun to use at PF also. At C, I enjoy using Bosh....his speed is likely a big reason why. David Harrison is a fun play too...he can be iffy in shooting occasionally, but still fun to use. And despite his lower overall ranking, I've enjoyed using...yes, you guessed it...Podkolzin. He's a fun project and watching him tower over other players is pretty cool. Some of the lower-ranked PG's can also be enjoyable...Bryce Drew and Dickau, for example. Ariza, after some development, was pretty cool to use too.

2. Which players do you not enjoy playing with? For me, I was surprised to not really enjoy using Billups at PG, Jiri Welsch at SG, Ridnour at PG, Tim Thomas at SF, Biedrins at PF. I am not sure if I enjoy using Artest right now either...I thought he'd defend better and I have not had much success with him in scoring. I was surprised about that, but I think a big part of it is that I don't favor my SF position and Artest is much slower than many other SF's and I like speed on my team.

3. When you play, which positions do you favor over others? Some like to use their PG's, other prefer their C's. I like my SG's, my PF's and my C's. I find that scoring from the PG spot is not as easy as scoring from other positions. I also find that unless I take my SF to the hoop (which is why I like Wallace and Josh Smith at SF), they are usually not tall enough to really be effective at mid-range shooting. I get tired of watching my SF's shoot bad shots. I prefer to watch my SG take it to the hoop or surprise the defense with a smooth outside shot, or pass the ball into my PF or C and watch them power it in the paint. Sure, I have games where Gerald Wallace or Jason Williams take over, but most of my games have the most scoring come out of my SG, PF and C positions.

4. I am finding that although it is hard on attempts to keep under the cap, the few players ranked in the 90's can really dominate the game. I only played a quarter with Garnett before erasing that league (that was the league where I had Shaq), but he was unstoppable. Even when simming, my team won 90% of the games. I have 2 teams with Kobe and he is a force...I can easily score 30+ with him and have several assists and steal with a number of highlight dunks. When I had Shaq, nobody could stop him in the paint or score over him. I believe you said you had the same quality experience with McGrady and I am sure Duncan owners love him. I think it gets much more hit and miss with players ranked in the 80's. Ming and Brand are 2 I've used who can kill opposing D's, especially Brand. Ming is a great bargain, but I've found that Brand is worth his salary...he is awesome. I played a game with him last night and he scored 14 points in the 1st quarter alone...nobody could keep him from scoring. I have 2 team now with the combo of Ming and Brand and that is one of my favorites, although a Ming/Stoudemire combo is a cheaper variation of the same theme. I had an opposing PF try backing Brand down with very little luck and then I double-teamed with Ming, and when the opposing player tried to shoot over Brand, Ming just slapped the ball away. You can try to shoot over a 6'8" Brand, but don't think the ball will get by the 7'6" Ming.

My drafting technique is being refined with each draft I do. I think my favorite drafts have me getting Ming in the 1st, Stoudemire in the 2nd (unless Brand falls to the 2nd, which happens albeit rarely...I can usually trade Stoudemire in a deal for Brand, though, if I choose), and an SG like Redd in the 3rd (although he sometimes goes in the 2nd). Those are the 3 positions I like to play with the most, so you can understand why I focus on them. In the 4th, I like to try to get a backup PF like Okafor or Howard. I can then focus on backups at SG and C while getting the right kind of talent to start at PG and SF. If I was to go for someone like Bryant in the 1st rather than Ming, I would have to get a much poorer fallback C whereas if I focus on Ming in the 1st, I get one of the best C options and the SG I select a round or 2 later will be less of a step down from Bryant.
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Postby JT_55 on Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:49 am

1. D-Wade is one of my favorites at PG. He can do everything except shoot 3s and block. Lue is another. He can shoot well and he's quick. I like Mo Pete and Battier at SG. They can both steal and shoot 3s fairly well (the fairly part is for Battier). I like to use Tayshaun Prince at SF. He can dunk and has those long arms to block and rebound. As for PF, I like Okafor, Howard, and Radmanovic. You know who I like at C.

2. I hate Steve Francis. I don't know or care what his FG rating is, but he missed a 15-footer that even Okafor could have made. I don't like Ben Gordon at SG. Too short. End of story. Suprisingly, I don't like Kirilenko and Anthony at SF. Kirilenko has a 80+ block rating, but he even has less blocks than Prince or T-Mac. Anthony can't shoot very well. He's way better in real life. Chalk another one up for underrated players. I don't like Jwan Howard at PF. Again, can't shoot (even though he has a 64 FG rating).

3. My favorite positions are: SG (T-Mac), PG (Wade and his steals), and C (Yao. Enough said).

4. Yep, I love using T-Mac. He's capable of doing anything except steal. His block rating is also underrated. He's so tall he can block pratically everyone.

Brand is only 6'8"!?!? I never noticed he's so short.

Played a few games with Podkolzin. Well, 1 quarter on Rookie level, a half on Starter, and a half on All-Star. I was playing 5 min. quarters with CPU shot control. I overused him to see how good he is. He's just as advertised...except the turnovers. He got blocked 3 times by Camby and stripped once in the first quarter. Then, I played the Kings instead and he was stripped twice in two halves. He didn't get blocked, though. Miller was too sucky at blocks and not tall enough. His other stats are okay. In the rookie quarter, he had 6pts and 2 blocks with 3/8 shooting. In the Starter half, he had 12 points, 2 blocks, and 5 turnovers with 6/12 shooting. In the All-Star half, he had 6 points, 2 boards, 1 turnover with 3/8 shooting. He's good for a 46 rated player, but I won't trade him for Bosh anytime soon.
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Postby asgsjb on Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:54 am

Tried Lue once and was not enthralled. I may not have given him enough of a chance. Haven't tried Radmanovic...isn't he good with 3's and shooting but poor on big man stats?

I agree on Gordon...height is key.

Didn't know that about Kirilenko and Anthony. I was trying to trade for them. I may need to try them in a regular game first before trying to get them in my dynasties.

I thought Brand was taller in real life too. But that's the height they have him at in Live '05. Maybe they messed up.

Hadn't had any issue with Podkolzin and losing the ball, but I only have him in 1 dynasty and may not have yet played a good stealing center (like Gadzuric or Okur). When I play a good thieving center, even Ming has trouble holding onto the ball too long...he needs to shoot or pass quickly. I like him for a 46 rated player, but I also wouldn't take him over any of the key centers.

Will be online today but than am going to be away the rest of the week on business. So it will be quiet from my end after today. But I want to keep the '05 dialogue going, so I'll be back posting as soon as I get back.
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Postby JT_55 on Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:34 am

Lue was one of those "Cheap but Effective Players". He can shoot fairly well and is quick, but his steals are really poor. Again, he's good for a 55 rated player and I don't expect him to perform as well as Tinsley or Willams, but he should suit your stlye better than Ridnour.

Yep, Radmanovic is very good at 3's and not as good big man stats as you would expect from a 65 rated or even a 60 rated PF. But I'm obsessed with players who shoot 3's and he can sink some from time to time. Also he's younger and cheaper than Donyell Marshall. I'm crazy with shooting 3's. Yao and Dwight Howard went 2 for 10 in a quarter once because I keep using them to shoot 3's as the CPU doesn't guard them beyond the arc. Having Radmanovic solves this problem.

By all means, do trade for Anthony. He's not as good as real life, but he's an upgrade compared to Prince, Jefferson, and Stackhouse.

Well, I played Miller (All-Star) and Camby (current DPOY) in those games so I don't think it will suprise you Podkolzin got stripped alot. Dumb luck. I get Ben Wallace next.

Yao is better at holding onto the ball than some others. I could pull freestyle moves from him and get away with it sometimes. Not with Okafor or Howard, though. One accidental press of the crossover button and instant turnover.

Oh yeah, and Brand is really that short. Both ESPN and Sportsnet lists him at 6'8" and 254 lb.
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Postby asgsjb on Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:58 am

Hey, JT...I'm back and back in action. Hope all's well. I was out in California for some business and some pleasure. Pretty cool....I managed to stumble on the world premiere event for Ratatouille, the new Pixar film. One of the invitees was Reggie Miller. I'm not sure why an ex-Pacer and current commentator was invited to a kids movie without his kids, but he was on the guest list. Don't know what his height is, but I was surprised that he was not taller. Sure, he was an SG, but I still expected him to tower over me a bit more.

I think Lue's height was my issue...6'0". He was frequently getting blocked. Who cares if you're shooting is accurate if you can't shoot over the defender. Plus, I agree...his defense is poor.

I also like to shoot the 3. For me, I either take it in for the dunk or shoot the 3. The midrange shot is a bit tougher to set up and is a bit boring...no flash to it.

Podkolzin against Big Ben is almost a crime. Ben's a force at blocks and steals...Podkolzin could get killed despite the height advantage.

Quite true with Yao...a very good ball-handler for a center.

When I got back last night, I wanted to play with a draft to get myself back in basketball mode. The sim path is still a confusing killer. Between drafting and trading, I had a 98-ranked team that should not be able to lose a game...

PG: Wade (via trade)
SG: LeBron James (drafted, 2nd round)
SF: Ricky Davis (via trade)
PF: Garnett (drafted, 1st round)
C: Ming (via trade)

Some key backups: Dwight Howard (PF), Josh Smith (SF), Kaman (C)

I simmed through the first month just to see how it played out...I ended the month with a 6-5 record. How does a team with Wade, James, Davis, Garnett and Ming lose 5 games (almost 50% of the games)?!?! Something is definitely out of whack when it comes to simulating the season.
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Postby JT_55 on Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:55 am

Welcome back, asgsjb. I'm really glad because my post per day count has been suffering since you left... :lol: .

Are you really tall? Because Miller is no slouch for a SG. He's 6'7". I'm pretty short myself, so even Lue towers over me.

Played the Podkolzin/Wallace game. 2 points for Podkolzin in 10 minutes, 5 turnovers, 1/9 shooting, 2 blocks. Got screwed over big time.

Midrange shot may be boring, but it's very important late in the game. If I'm behind by one or two points, I don't want to waste the opportunity by missing a three, so a mid-range jumper is really useful in that area. Also, I like to drive with T-Mac or Wade and kick it out to Yao for the mid-range jumper. Automatic two points.

That is a very wierd problem with the simming. I never had it before and the only thing I can advise you to do is...get a 99 rated team. Other than tht, intervene in the fourth. That's a great team, though. I never actually played with Garnett so I may try it sometime.
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Postby Seushiro on Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:55 am

Well asgsjb if you ask me how did you lose?. . . It is not because of the players it is the simulation. You have to have a able first five (which you have) and a second five with one of each position in your team that has good inside scoring ability and primacy or it will take two seasons before they beef out any opponent.

I am in my third year of my Bobcats dynasty with fantasy draft and I have a complete first five and second five of the bench but I still did'nt win all my games since when I checked the ratings of each player yes they can all shoot but when it comes to inside scoring and primacy they lack it so it is better to play a game then sim. :x
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Postby JT_55 on Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:50 am

Seushiro, I have a third year Houston Dynasty that went 54-28 and 59-23 by mostly simuating. The roster was (I didn't change it much after the first year):

Yao (Inside scoring rating: 87)
Dwight Howard (78)
Prince (62)
McGrady (66)
Wade (45)

Okafor (77)
Bosh (67)
Murray (54)
Ridnour (53)
Pavlovic (68)

These aren't all world class inside scorers. But my record is not as bad as the one's asgsjb's has been getting.
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Postby Seushiro on Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:24 pm

Yeah He got an almost even stat between win and lose, That also happened to me but not that much as the margin is almost equal I was more like a 56-26. . . but I fixed that after using Shannon's Sim engine. . . I remember also getting a training camp fix since some get a (-) negative when everybody is only suppose to get better after every training. . .
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Postby JT_55 on Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:53 pm

You actually managed to lose points after training!?!?

Another reason why I don't bother with mods and downloads.
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Postby Seushiro on Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:53 pm

oh my bad I was thinking of 04. . . But in 05 After a year some players that got injured and lose stats sometimes never get back to how fast they were anymore. . . I have this problem ryt now Iverson Mr. 99 Speed and Quickness is now Mr. Slow poke. . . If I dont have my AIACT then he would suck since his only arsenal is shooting and no hookshots and drive to the basket lay-ups. . . he is now 89 Speed 86 quickness after two injuries during the play-offs and a restart in the roster entering the third year. . . Damn!
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