Trade advice needed

[JT_55]

Looking at your list of tall players (good job on the research, by the way), only a couple of players fit all three of your criteria for the Dynasty. I, personally, would only go after Chandler and Deng because the other players aren't as young or cheap. All the others are more expensive or going to be more expensive. Milicic isn't going to be worth his money until maybe 5-6 years later (I never got that far, so I wouldn't know). Gasol is in his contract year, and we all know what a 80+ rating guy like him is going to be asking for next year. As for Kapono, you don't need him because you already have Korver.

Do you have any standout players in your draft class this year? Because the game generates rookies that are either way more shorter or taller than normal players in that position (remember my 6'2" SG? Well I also had a 7'0" SF, so that was nice), so you could try to draft someone that is taller instead of trading for them.

[asgsjb]

Thanks for the compliment.

There are a few on the list who don't meet at least 1 of the 3 criteria (young, tall and cheap). McCarty (30) and Elson (28) are getting up in age and, if you consider 25 yrs old as a cutoff, then Jaric, Jackson, Battier and Boumtje (all 26) would also be "too old". Jackson's $4.90M, Miller's $5M, Turkoglu's $5.2M, Gasol's $4.32M (which will only increase, as you pointed out) and Chandler's $4.80M (which, like Gasol, will also jump up this year) all would be too pricey...those dollars for a backup SG or SF makes no sense and I already have solid PF's, so spending that money on another PF also makes no sense. But I think the others fit relatively well with the youth, height and cheapness concept. For example, Childress is 21 years old, 6'8", and has a 4 year $2.49M contract, which is not too bad for someone who will get PT behind Kobe. I agree with you on Deng...19 years old, 6'8", and also in a 4 yr. contract for $2.77M/yr. Harrison (C-IND) is 22, 7'0", and in a 4 year contract at $643K/yr. And those are just 3 examples. If I am going to let Hardaway walk and try to move Houston, having a young, tall, cheap SG like Childress or Welsch to back up Kobe looks good, as does getting a young C like Harrison if I was to let Ilgauskas go or trade him.

As for Kapono, I agree that he is like a mirror image of Korver. I could go for an SG like Childress instead, who with a slashing, take it to the hoop differs from Korver's 3-point shooting style. It's the battle between complimentary vs. differing skills. I do like SG's who can hit the 3, so maybe having another 3-point shooter isn't so bad. I guess it will come down to who I am able to sign in the offseason. I am determined to lose Hardaway and Houston, so I'll want to add at SG in the offseason...if Kapono is the only SG I can get, that would make the decisions easier, as would also be the case if Kapono re-signs with Charlotte and another SG on my wish list is available.

As for the draft, Live '05 "blessed me" (sarcasm there) with a weak draft for my first draft. I am doing well in the standings, so I'll be out of the lottery and will have a late round pick. There are few draftees with excellent potential and my scouting is showing many players to have C's or worse in most categories (a ton of D's, in fact). There is 1 center with average potential who has an A- in blocks, but the rest of his categories suck. Even the top 10 picks seem weak. However, the caveat to all this is that I have not done the draft before, so I do not know how the letter grades will translate to actual ranks. So some of these draftees may be better than their letter grades imply, and I would not know at this point. In any event, unless I can trade draft picks for players I want, I'm going to focus on PG's and C's in the draft, as I am set at PF for a few years and intend on re-signing my SF's.

Had my 3rd game (yesterday) since adjusting my sliders...at home vs. Indiana. I won 143-104. With a 91 team ranking vs. Indiana's 68 (or so), I expected to win, but the dominance was contrary to "realistic" sliders. My big men were able to dominate the weaker (but taller) Indiana big men, and my SF's and SG's were able to score at will. But the key was steals. I had 31 steals...11 by Norris alone, 7 by Kobe, 5 by J-Will, and the rest by Wallace, J.Smith, Hardaway and a few others. If you assume at least 95% of steals end up in a basket (with the remaining 5% being an occasional missed layup or a less-occasional block from behind), that would be at least 29.45 baskets from those 31 steals...that's almost 59 points of my 143 total. If I had a more realistic number of steals, I still would have won, but the score would have been more realistic. I had already dropped my steals slider from the default 70 down to the NBA Live Series suggestion of 40, but I still am getting way to many steals. The actual NBA top 10 stealers are averaging between 1.6 and 2.1 SPG, so any of my guys getting 5+ steals every game is skewed. Kbryant24 plays Live '07 and has his steals slider set to 30...Pared's sliders are popular and his steals slider is set to 35....I clearly have to lower my slider further. I intentionally got PG's who can steal (J-Will has an 80 rank and Norris has an 84 rank) and focused on steals elsewhere too (Kobe has an 81 rank, Wallace has a 77 rank, Josh Smith has an 81 rank, Sweetney has a 70 rank, and even Mohammed and Hardaway are in their 60's in rank). But getting 11 steals is crazy.

Where do you have your steals slider set (and are you on All-Star or another level)? Who are your best "thieves", what are their steals ranks and how many steals do they usually get you each game?

[JT_55]

I never touch sliders (as a matter of fact, I forgot where they are).

I don't actually play the games much as I focus more on the GM and trading aspects of the game (I love ripping off the computer). When I do play, I constantly change my level from All-Star to Starter and back to All-Star in a pattern sort of like this: Blow out the computer in starter, challenges it in All-Star (and subsequently get blown out), and get frustrated and change it back to starter.

My best "thieves" are Ridnour, Mo Pete, and AK 47. I don't get many steals as I am very bad at it and most of the time I miss (except when I use Ridnour; don't know why but I could get 8 spg with him and almost none with anybody else) and let the other team have a easy run at the basket.

Also, the potential for rookies is more important than most would think. So try to get draftees with excellent potential and treat them as very cheap projects (unlike Milicic or Telfair). So getting a player with better potential a few spots down is better than getting a player with horrible potential (well, less than average is not very good) that is projected a few spots higher. Being a picky person, I generally don't pick players below "good".

[asgsjb]

Makes sense about your top 3 thieves. Ridnour has an 82 steal rating, Mo Pete has a 75 steal rating and AK-47 has an 84 steal rating. I am guessing you get more steals from Ridnour than the rest because most people use their PG for pressure D as opposing PG's are bringing the ball out of the backcourt...it seems easier to steal with a PG than with SF's or other positions. But I could be wrong on that theory.

I find there are 2 key moments for getting steals successfully. First comes with pressure D...and I love pressure D's. If your PG has a good steal rating (as Ridnour does), you can put pressure on the opposing PG as soon as he gets the ball in the backcourt and press the whole time...when the opposing PG shifts from one direction to the next (right to left, for example) to get away from your press, he usually moves the ball in front of him, and that's the exact moment to try to hit the steal button. Just as successful is when you pressure the opposing PG enough that he needs to pass and you let him get close to the opposing SG when he passes to that SG...as the SG receives the ball, his back is to the basket and his front (and the ball) is right out there for your PG to get, so if you hit the speed button and get your PG to the opposing SG as he catches the pass, that is the exact time to get the steal. These 2 techniques are my best methods of racking up steals. The "interception steal" occurs less often.

I also love the GM part of the game...I agree it is usually more fun than actually playing the game itself.

Thanks for the draft pointers...any other pointers on the draft are also always welcome. There are a few late round draftees who have excellent potential...I will focus on getting them and making them long-term development projects.

Speaking of the draft, how does it work when you are over the cap (as most teams are) and you want to sign your picks? I know how it works for trades and free agency, but not with the draft. Let's say I draft 1st and 2nd round picks...how much do you sign them for in order to sign them when you are over the cap? 385K? 620K? What's the max and is there ever a time when your draft pick is too expensive for an over-the-cap team to sign?

[JT_55]

Although I am not absolutely sure, your theory about using the PG for pressure D does make sense. I use Ridnour to guard the opponent's PG every time, but when I use Nene (80 steal rating or something) to guard the PF, it almost never works.

Thanks for the tips on stealing, by the way. I never tried the second method before, but it sounds good, i'll try it sometime. Me, I like to either anticipate the in-bounds pass and to just stick a big body in front of the guy in-bounding to pick it off. I also tried to play cheap and use a PC controller and turbo the steal button, but all I got was a reach-in foul.

Well, you might know this already, but not all the draftees are the same age. So take that into consideration too. Remember that ratings can improve over time and training, but things like height, weight, potential, and age can't.

As for signing picks, I think it works the same as resigning players. Second-round picks almost always sign for 385k/2yrs while first-rounders go for somewhere from as low as 745k/4yrs to around 3.5M (I don't know the exact because the only team that was that bad to get the first overall pick fired me). I think you can always sign your picks as long as you have the roster space (I'm basing this theory on the real Detroit who was (and is) over the cap and still signed 2nd-overall pick Milicic who is worth about 3.5M).

[Andrew]

NBA Live simplifies the process of signing rookies; unlike the NBA where a team owns a player's draft rights and subsequently signs them to a contract, rookies are automatically signed in NBA Live with the top picks getting contracts around $3-4 mil and the rest of the draftees signed to deals that decrease in value down to the second rounders who are on minimum contracts.

[asgsjb]

Good points. It seems so obvious now that you bring it up, but as I was focusing on the money side of drafting, I overlooked the roster space issue. I have a full roster of 15 players right now. If I let Tierre Brown and Hardaway walk, those 2 spaces can either go to attractive free agents or to raw rookies. If I have a choice between Eddie House and a rookie PG or Kapono and a rookie SG, I might have a hard time choosing to go with the rookie, especially in a year with a weak draft. I may have to mull that one over a bit more to decide on what I want to do. Fortunately, I just passed the All-Star break, so I have a bit more time to decide.

Just saw your response too, Andrew. Thanks for the info. If a 1st rounder is going for $3-4M, then that may push me even more to focus on free agents to take up my few roster spots. It's a choice between getting experience at $1.1M or less and getting potential (in a weak draft) for $3-4M. If I am focused on balancing winning now with cap management, the lesser expensive but higher experienced option seems to be the wise way to go.

[Andrew]

If your pick is mid to late first round you won't have to worry about paying that much, it's really only the top five picks that demand that sort of cash.

[asgsjb]

That leads to several more questions then (keeping in mind that the offseason, as I understand it, moves from re-signing your own players, to the rookie draft, and then to free agent signings of other teams' free agents):

1. If I was to re-sign all my own free agents and have the full 15 roster spots filled prior to the draft, how does the CPU add 1st and 2nd round picks to your team? You would be over the 15 person limit. Do you automatically "waive" your drafted rookies? Do their salaries count against your cap?

2. If I was to drop Tierre Brown and Hardaway (as I expect to do), leaving 2 open roster spots for me to add desired free agents, does the CPU automatically sign my drafted rookies to those 2 spots (meaning I either have to waive them or else not add 2 free agents)? That seems to be what you are advising of, Andrew...is that the case?

3. This draft class is pretty poor. If I wanted to "waive" my 2 draft picks prior to drafting any player...essentially tossing the picks away...do we have the ability to do so? Or will I be stuck with the CPU forcing me to draft players I don't want and to go into a multi-year contract I don't want?

[Mr. Floppy]

1. if your roster is full before draft, you forfeit your picks automatically.
if you can not draft rookies because of a full roster, then there's no salary to count against you cap.
no roster space -> no rookie

2. if you have open slots and pick rookies, they are automatically signed. so you'd have to waive them or not sign free agants later, yes. waived contracts count against your cap though.
open roster spots -> draft a rookie or forfeit your pick -> sign free agent or waive a player (rookie in your case) and then sign a free agent

3. you can forfeit picks. in the draft itselt, there should be "forfeit pick" button. use that to not use your right to draft a rookie.
no rookie drafted -> no long-term contract you don't want

[asgsjb]

Great explanation, Mr. Floppy! You hit every one of my questions. I greatly appreciate it.

[Andrew]

Just to add to that, even though the second rounders have minimum contracts you might want to forfeit your second round pick if it ends being fairly low, unless you're keen on getting another rookie to work with. As I recall NBA Live 2005 didn't generate too many Manu Ginobili-like players when it comes to the late second rounders which means you could probably put the roster spot to better use. Unless you happen to grab a player with decent potential late in the second round, you probably won't have much luck developing him.

[asgsjb]

I agree, Andrew. In fact, my leaning is to forfeit both picks right now, assuming I continue my successful pace and therefore end up with a late pick in the draft. There are only 2 players with excellent potential in this draft, and both have really low grades so far (both are projected to go early in the 2nd round). They may be too much of a project to develop, especially when I already have young, but experienced talent already on the roster who can use development attention. Even the projected top pick has Limited potential...that's pretty bad. They weren't kidding when they said this was a weak draft. I'd rather see what free agents i can get.

June 7th edit: Man, the game results in Live '05 can really be skewed. I've set my sliders to realistic levels, but I still get some weird games like last night. I did 2 games...1 vs. Orlando and 1 vs. Golden State. Orlando (with Francis, Mobley, Turkoglu, Howard and Cato as a starting 5) has a higher team ranking than GS (with Fisher, Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy and Foyle as the starting 5), so I expected the Orlando game to be tougher, but check this out. Orlando rocked me for 3 quarters...I was down by 10-15 through much of that time. They hit everything and I hit nothing. For example, I would double-team Francis in the corner and he'd toss the ball over a jumping Ilgauskas for a 3 pointer...in my case, I had Josh Smith blow 2 easy slam dunks (no blocks by Orlando on the plays) by clanking the ball off the rim. All of the sudden, in the 4th, Orlando can't hit anything and I can. In the end, I win by 12 points in a game with a reasonable score....steals amounts were pretty reasonable (Francis never lost the ball), as were other stats. It was all a matter of hitting the shots. Then I move on to the GS game. There, Kobe goes for 45 points, I get a gazilllion steals, I get nice blocks, GS can't hit a thing, Richardson is shut down, and I win by a score that is so disproportionately lopsided that I am embarrassed to state the score. And this is at All-Star level with realistic sliders. Yes, I hoped to win both and thought the Orlando game would be closer than the GS game, but for Orlando to have my number for 3 quarters and then go south in the 4th despite both teams doing the same things they did in earlier quarters, and then for the Orlando game to be a reasonable battle (for 3 quarters at least) and for the GS game to be a monster blow-out makes no sense. I guess I have to chalk it up to the fact that it is a video game and that video games will not be flawless.

It's off topic, but...(1) as an Islander fan, I am glad the Yashin era is over (I just wish it was a few years sooner), and I hope we still retain rights to Carol Alt (ha ha), and (2) for a great team, the Ottawa Senators made a poor showing in this Stanley Cup finals.

[JT_55]

Yes, the Sens were horrible last night. And as a Canadian, I feel truly ashamed that the team representing our country barely showed up.

Edit: Those are very lopsided games you got there. Guess maybe there is some weird command in the game that knows that too many shots fell for one side and they have to make it equal.

[Seushiro]

All-Star is not accurate even with realistic sliders I was already in 95 - 39 in the start of the third quarter because I keep on forcing the dunks. . . I use my AIACT the MM07 Shooter ver. and play Super star just to have an even match but when I cant score for 2-minutes and I am down it is so impossible to win.

I suggest You try my AIACT for Live 05 and go SUperstar with Andrews sliders if you want a close game to the originals.

here is some details:

a.) Open men go for the basket!

b.) Open Shooters! always make the open shot

c.) CPU forces you to double and pass to the open shooters

d.) CPU forces the shot if they have a dunker or shooter on the ball

e.) You can go player lock since your CPU team mates ai is not as doped

f.) Ball rotation is good they pass to everyone if defense is tight and if no choice it is time for their all star player to shine.

the CPU AI is tougher and when they lead and you are in 2-minutes of the last quarter they pass the ball around and kill time forcing you to foul.

[asgsjb]

Thanks, Seushiro. I appreciate the info.

I don't mean to ask an ignorant question (so I hope it isn't one)....but what is AIACT?

And JT, although I am not Canadian, I was also rooting for the Senators...I was disappointed with their showing. Alfreddson made a go at it, but Spezza and Heatley did squat. I also thought the D would do a bit better.

[Andrew]

AIACT.viv is the file that contains various animations. Over the past year or so patchers have found ways of modifying it to edit the dunk packages and change its influence over gameplay.

[JT_55]

Glad to see some Sens fans outside of Canada. Not only Spezza and Heatley suck, but Emery just let everything by him. But then again, the defence didn't help him much either. That's enough of hockey talk though, this isn't an NHL forum.

[asgsjb]

I think I have been too nervous about screwing up my computer to try the various patches and alternative files people have suggested on this site. I may need to dip my toe in the water at some point.

Going back to the draft, has anyone figured out a correlation between a draftee's grades for each category and the range of ratings that will give him and how their potential impacts that, if at all? For example, what range of ratings does a D- in blocks result in? 40-60? 60-70? Less? More? And would the range be any different if the draftee has excellent potential compared to good potential? As to the impact of potential, my guess is that it would have no impact on the rating, but would just allow the draftee to be developed more than a draftee with lower potential, but that is just an educated guess.

Has anyone figured the correlation out? I haven't seen it in any Live '05 guide. Thanks.

It's interesting...I had started a fantasy draft dynasty prior to doing my Knicks dynasty. I thought having a fantasy draft would be cool. But actually, I have done nothing with that dynasty, focusing 100% of my efforts on the Knicks dynasty. It's all personal preference, but I find it more enjoyable to start out with the actual team I like and then mold the dynasty into what I want it to be (a winner, young, inexpensive, set up to get top free agents, etc.) than to start out with a team that just never existed in real life to begin with. For example, although my fantasy dynasty is the Knicks, I didn't draft a single player who was actually on the Knicks roster in the 04-05 season. It could have been given any name, as there was absolutely no connection to the Knicks. Now with my Knicks dynasty, I only presently have 1 or 2 remnants of the original Knicks team I started with, but I enjoyed the fact that I started with an overpriced and older Knicks team that actually existed and have been converting it to a dynamic, young, economically reasonable team. Again, just personal preference. But it's funny, now that I've passed the trade deadline in my Knicks dynasty (and trading is one of the things I enjoyed the most...being the GM), I actually started taking a look at my fantasy draft dynasty solely for the purpose of working trades and bringing my cap down. I don't have much interest in playing the games...just being GM. So while I play my Knicks dynasty games, I am leaning towards simulating the season and just being GM for the fantasy draft dynasty. Who knows...there may not be enough time in the day to do both. :)

[Seushiro]

Oh yeah forgot to mention my AIACT is kinda different from all other AIACT's because I use both ai and anim files from other lives like 06's Shooting, MM07's Dunking, 06's running, and 06's dribbles. that is why the gameplay is so realistic.

Unlike other AIACTS out there that just disable and enable dunks and situations for the CPU.

[JT_55]

Asgsjb, I did a draft experimentation a while ago that explains some of the correlation between grades, potential, and most importantly, ratings. I never though of posting it, but since you asked and no one else had posted a similar experiment, I will post my experiment (on a different thread, though. Not this one).

[asgsjb]

I'll be interested in seeing it, JT. When you post it, please let me know where it's at and I'll check it out.

[JT_55]

Its in this forum and i'm working on it right now.

By the way, does anyone know how to post a chart, like a spreadsheet? I can't get the information organized well without using a chart.

[Seushiro]

hmmn. . . nice experiment I guess the the two rookies that improved from the draft have either an A or a B is careerpkg or destinypkg?. . .

[asgsjb]

Glad you posted that, JT. I am heading out shortly, but will look at it tonight.

I tried something interesting last night for fun. I wanted to see if I could do a fantasy draft where I focus on keeping below the cap, being financially smart, while still putting together a top team. It was hard passing up on some of the great players I did, but I think I put together a cool team. I picked 2nd (that's how the random order came up), and here's the results of the team:

PG: Ridnour (59 rank, 6'2", 23 yrs old, $1.53M for 3 yrs.)
PG: Pargo (55 rank, 6'1", 25 yrs. old, $695K for 1 yr.)
PG: Dickau (50 rank, 6'0", 26 yrs. old, $695K for 1 yr.)

SG: Kobe Bryant (94 rank, 6'6", 26 yrs. old, $14.18M for 7 yrs.)
SG: Jiri Welsch (56 rank, 6'7", 24 yrs. old, $2.34M for 2 yrs.)

SF: Deng (59 rank, 6'8", 19 yrs. old, $2.27M for 4 yrs.)
SF: Josh Smith (57 rank, 6'9", 19 yrs. old, $1.27M for 4 yrs.)
SF: Korver (50 rank, 6'7", 23 yrs. old, $695K for 1 yr.)

PF: Amare Stoudemire (76 rank, 6'10", 22 yrs. old, $2.03M for 2 yrs.)
PF: Okafor (70 rank, 6'10", 22 yrs. old, $3.74M over 4 yrs.)
PF: Biedrins (54 rank, 6'11", 18 yrs. old, $1.33M for 4 yrs.)
PF Milicic (51 rank, 7'0", 19 yrs. old, $695K for 1 yr.)

C: Bosh (65 rank, 6'10", 20 yrs. old, $3.13M for 3 yrs.)
C: Harrison (52 rank, 7'0", 22 yrs. old, $643K for 4 yrs.)
C: Podkolzin (46 rank, 7'5", 20 yrs. old, $1.06M for 4 yrs.)

Not so bad if you ask me. All were drafted other than Dickau, Korver and Milicic, who I imemdiately got in free agency. I have a full roster, and after getting the 3 free agents, I am $7.69M under the cap.

It would be nice if Bosh was taller and stronger, but he can be developed or traded, if need be, has a favorable contract, and I have a 7'0" Harrison and a 7'5" Podkolzin behind him, along with a 7'0" Milicic (who is at PF, but can play C if needed).

This team meets how I like to shape a team too. Ridnour is a good pass-first PG who can defend and who can score if needed. My star is at SG...Kobe. I have good backup guards with Pargo and Dickau (who likely can be re-signed cheap) and Welsch (all who can hit the 3). Deng and Smith at SF are fast slashers who can go to the hoop strong, while Korver is a great outside shooter who can also play SG. My PF's are real strong, have size and are young...I see great defenders in the future at this spot. And again, my centers are nice young talents with potential. One poster on the site said Podkolzin can be developed into a monster...I look forward to trying that.

Other than the free agnet pickups and Pargo, all my players are signed for several years, meaning I can develop a top team without much fear of contract renegotiation.

So what do you think of this experiment? Kind of cool, I think.