A black or female president?? what is the world coming to?

[el badman]

Your Supreme Court Justices tidbit shows how much you know about the government. A new president would not change the justices because they can't unless the Justice retires. Once a Justice is assigned by any former or current president the term is life. So if JFK assigned one and they didn't retire yet that means they are still in office. Hillary isn't really a Democrat because she's pretty conservative compared to most of them. Actually, she was a Republican before Bill ran for Pres.

True, Hillary has become more and more conservative, she started some fucked up crusades about having a wall between the US and Mexico, or regarding video game ratings...Plus she's one of the hypocrites who actually agreed with the war in the first place, for some unknown stupid reason, and who's now forced to find a "proper" justification for that. At least, Obama didn't agree with it, like any normal human being (and the rest of the world)...Fucking Hillary's just scary now

Yes...the 1990's were a wonderful time for Americans. You had the World Trade Center bombing, the CIA assault rifle attack, Karachi attack, Oklahoma City bombing, Amtrak derailed, Olympic Park bombing, Empire State building attack, Somlia crisis and the Columbine shootings. Most of those had to deal with international terrorism. I didn't even post the embassy attacks on Americans in foreign countries during this decade.

Compared to everything that has happened to this country since 2000, all of these weren't much...
There's one thing that Americans either don't realize, or just don't give a shit about: everything this country's been doing for 6-7 years contributed to the rest of the world deeply despising Americans, especially since it also led to religious clashes, and these will last a long ass time...It's really sad to see that cuz as a French citizen living in th US, I know that most people here are not necessarily so arrogant and hateful, but this government's intense propaganda and fear-based politics were always meant to fuel feelings of brainless patriotism...Now this country has to deal with the consequences and the 6 billion people hating its guts...

Appeasement does not mean peace. I think the 1990's were overrated when looking back at what it has created now in the 2000's.

The Clinton administration sure didn't make only the best choices when it comes to foreign policy, but it's absurd to claim that they led to what's going on right now. All of this has been created by one retarted cowboy and its crew of ignorant bureaucrats, and only them.
Bush and his pals should be judged in La Hague for their barbaric acts, like any other tyrants of this world.

I grew up in the 1990's (I was born in 1989 thank you!)

Well, now that explains a lot...just another braindead kid repeating the nonsense he's always been exposed to....

[Christopherson]

I don't know what the 1990's were like? I grew up in the 1990's (I was born in 1989 thank you!).

Yeah I bet you really paid a lot of attention to the current socioeconomic structure and political happenings in 1995 at the age of six. You were eleven when Y2k happened. You don't know shit about the 90's. I don't know anything about what it was like to live in the Great Depression other than something I read in a fuckin book, just like you don't know shit about the 90's. I remember the 90's and they were better than things are now. End of Story.

[Riot]

I don't know what the 1990's were like? I grew up in the 1990's (I was born in 1989 thank you!).

Yeah I bet you really paid a lot of attention to the current socioeconomic structure and political happenings in 1995 at the age of six. You were eleven when Y2k happened. You don't know shit about the 90's. I don't know anything about what it was like to live in the Great Depression other than something I read in a fuckin book, just like you don't know shit about the 90's. I remember the 90's and they were better than things are now. End of Story.

I can't quite comprend what you are saying. In what ways were the 1990's better than the 2000's? I could argue that the 2000's are better because we have better technology and advancements.

If you look at my original post I never said the 1990's weren't a good time. We, on American soil, had very little to worry about. We felt protected and the technology boom was in full force. However, the false sense of security has costed us dearly. The lack of aggression and confrontation against terrorism has hurt us today. It was a lack of courage on the part of the government.

I am so sorry I struck a nerve when I decided to voice my opinion. I'll remember next time that I should always agree with the crowd. Doesn't that popular saying go, "What's popular is always right and what's right is always popular"?

You guys are excatly 100% correct. I have no clue what the 1990's were like and you guys can tell it to me like it is. You guys are what...5 years older than me maybe? That makes you an expert and me nothing more than a newb? Give me a break. Terrorism wasn't born in the 1990's but it spread like a wild fire and nobody had the courage or awareness to do anything about it. I'm not sure how you can blame terrorism on the currente administration when it had been brewing for well over a decade. President Bush is not the reason why we are hated. We were hated in the 1990's and that was long before the current administration. We were hated when Clinton was in office. They hate freedom. They hate what we stand for. It doesn't matter who is in office. They want you to think it is because of President Bush so you'll put another appeasement-minded politician in office so they can continue to grow and preach hate.

You call it propaganda and ignorance and say I'm close-minded. I think you a hypocrite who cannot handle an opposite opinion of yours.

[Dro]

Sorry guys, but Riot has a point. A wise man once said that Peace is just a respite between wars. Well, what happens during the time of peace is just as significant as what happens during times of war. The bottom line is that support of Israel and American presence in the Middle East alienated Arabs to the point where radicalism has actually become in ideology in some parts of the Arab world.

Of course, it wasn't just the 90's...this started long before the Clinton Administration. But, why exactly does it matter what quality of life was like during the 90's? Events that happened while our backs were turned obviously came to bite us in the arse.

[el badman]

They hate freedom. They hate what we stand for.

Maybe next time you shouldn't quote any speech that Bush has been giving for the last 7 years...
That's how I know you're just a sheep believing in whatever crap you've been fed with, and not trying to understand what's really going on in this world.
I'm 10 years older than you and I do know in what world we live in, I don't live in fucking la-la-land where everybody needs to mention "freedom" in each sentence.
I can certainly handle a different opinion, I just feel bad for people (kids) like you who choose to remain in absolute ignorance (well, actually I don't, I guess I am a hypocrite...).

[Riot]

Maybe next time you shouldn't quote any speech that Bush has been giving for the last 7 years...

I quote it for truth.

That's how I know you're just a sheep believing in whatever crap you've been fed with, and not trying to understand what's really going on in this world.

I don't know everything that is going on this world and neither do you. I do know that there are people in this world that hate freedom and the Western lifestyle and do not want it to suceed. They have stated (documented, videotaped proof) that they want to see America and it's citizens dead. They hate us for what we believe in. I didn't do anything to them. You didn't do anything to them. They hate us because we are American. Because we pledge allegiance to the Red, White and Blue and they don't support that. How can you deny that?

I'm 10 years older than you and I do know in what world we live in, I don't live in fucking la-la-land where everybody needs to mention "freedom" in each sentence.

You being ten years older than me qualifies you for nothing in my book. If you think the terrorists and insergents hate us because of something we did then you are misunderstood. They are evil. They don't like freedom. This is why there are fighters coming into Iraq from numerous countries trying to stop a democracy from spreading into Iraq (along with Afghanistan). They don't want freedom to suceed. It is not some stupid propaganda statement. It's the truth. I'm sorry if you think I'm some naive punk ass kid who believes everything he reads. 90% of people my age and people I interact with on a daily basis (you can include TV into that as well) are liberals who oppose the war, oppose the administartion and have minds just like you. I'm not the one who follows propaganda, it's you.

I can certainly handle a different opinion, I just feel bad for people (kids) like you who choose to remain in absolute ignorance (well, actually I don't, I guess I am a hypocrite...).

That's great to know. At the moment, I don't really care about you or your opinion of me but I'll let you know when I do. In the time being, you can go back to being Mr. Know-it-all and pretend to be the Jack of all trades...mkay?

[Dro]

They hate freedom. They hate what we stand for.

Maybe next time you shouldn't quote any speech that Bush has been giving for the last 7 years...
That's how I know you're just a sheep believing in whatever crap you've been fed with, and not trying to understand what's really going on in this world.
I'm 10 years older than you and I do know in what world we live in, I don't live in fucking la-la-land where everybody needs to mention "freedom" in each sentence.
I can certainly handle a different opinion, I just feel bad for people (kids) like you who choose to remain in absolute ignorance (well, actually I don't, I guess I am a hypocrite...).

Stop trashing everything he says because of his age. His man-crush on George Bush is a little creepy, yes, but he makes valid points. I made almost exactly the same points he did, yet you didn't feel the need to reply to me?

[el badman]

Stop trashing everything he says because of his age. His man-crush on George Bush is a little creepy, yes, but he makes valid points. I made almost exactly the same points he did, yet you didn't feel the need to reply to me?

I'm very sorry I neglected your post.
I'm not trashing him because of his age, I replied the same way to previous posts of his in the past, before I knew about his age...

A wise man once said that Peace is just a respite between wars. Well, what happens during the time of peace is just as significant as what happens during times of war.

That's very eloquent and all but it precisely highlights what's gone terribly wrong with this country: the need to be belliquous. Instead of giving diplomacy a chance, there's always the need to threaten, give ultimatums, and show that they're the big cheese on this planet. All under the false pretense of liberating populations and bringing "freedom" to the world.
It's a respite between wars only if they choose to make it so. It's not fucking written in stone that conflicts have to burst, they chose to adopt an imperialistic strategy that makes this country seem like an ogre neglecting everything but it's "well-being". In fact, they made this world more dangerous than ever.

I do know that there are people in this world that hate freedom and the Western lifestyle and do not want it to suceed. They have stated (documented, videotaped proof) that they want to see America and it's citizens dead. They hate us for what we believe in. I didn't do anything to them. You didn't do anything to them. They hate us because we are American. Because we pledge allegiance to the Red, White and Blue and they don't support that. How can you deny that?

I can deny that because it's the biggest load of crap I've ever read. So all the populations of all these countries were born to hate Americans, right?
They have better things to do, don't be so self-centered...What this country's been doing for decades, but mostly for the past several years, has led to this situation, period.

They are evil. They don't like freedom.

Okay, I guess there's no need to argue with that, it's biblical...

[Riot]

That's very eloquent and all but it precisely highlights what's gone terribly wrong with this country: the need to be belliquous. Instead of giving diplomacy a chance, there's always the need to threaten, give ultimatums, and show that they're the big cheese on this planet. All under the false pretense of liberating populations and bringing "freedom" to the world.
It's a respite between wars only if they choose to make it so. It's not fucking written in stone that conflicts have to burst, they chose to adopt an imperialistic strategy that makes this country seem like an ogre neglecting everything but it's "well-being". In fact, they made this world more dangerous than ever.

Diplomacy is a two way street...it's hard to do it when the other side wants nothing to do with a settlement. How would diplomacy work with the Taliban or Al-Qaeda?

I can deny that because it's the biggest load of crap I've ever read. So all the populations of all these countries were born to hate Americans, right?
They have better things to do, don't be so self-centered...What this country's been doing for decades, but mostly for the past several years, has led to this situation, period.

Well, I think it's false that the 6 billion people don't like America and I think the majority of people who have severe hate for America are people who simply don't like the idea of freedom of religion and freedom of speach.

Okay, I guess there's no need to argue with that, it's biblical...

I don't see how good and evil is biblical. Even so, this country was founded on Christian beliefs and morals. There is no reason why having this country be guided and shaped by those traditions should be considered a bad trait.

You want to give the evil-doers a free pass. People hate America because of something we did. You dismiss evil. You tolerate evil and give excuses for evil more than you give it for your own country. You put President Bush on trial before you put Saddam on trial. The fact that you can't see good and evil concerns me and makes me realize that this conversation is going to be a never ending spin.

You believe what you want to believe. I'll believe what I want to believe. You can call me names all you want. You can claim you know more than me because you are older than me. You can claim that America is the cause of terrorism, HIV and global warming. At this point I don't care anymore. I realize my opinion has never been valued in this discussion and it's actually quite disturbing and insulting. I'll let you have the final word.

[el badman]

At this point I don't care anymore. I realize my opinion has never been valued in this discussion and it's actually quite disturbing and insulting. I'll let you have the final word.

I'd really like to value your opinion but you just make it impossible for me, and probably many more, to do so.
Everything you say is utterly stereotypical, it's the crap we've heard time after time from this government, the News Corp affiliates and any other trigger-happy redneck...
Indeed, this is really pointless.

[Matt]

does it matter...the end result is still a puppet

[Oznogrd]

Arguing politics here is pointless. First off let me say this; riot you may not believe me, but one day you may not believe the way you do now. 5 years ago: baptist christian republican...now: agnostic liberal....I'm not saying any view is right or wrong right now, i dont want that fight although i'm sure you know which side of the coin i'm with. I'm just saying, your mind could change before you know it. To quote the "freedom" you so often bring up; this is the freedom we have in our world; to disagree without persecution. But here is the problem with whats going on right now. Anyone or anything that doesnt agree with the current administration is being labeled unpatriotic, know nothing idiots while nothing could be further from the truth.

Also about freedom and explaining how we have it and they dont. To quote a good ol' american "give me liberty or give me death". While death may not seem a feasible "freedom" if you look at the basis of Judeochristianislamic beliefs (yes they are one and the same) death for whats right would send you to heaven, closer to god all that good stuff. If you ask the terrorist they will consider themselves free. To quote Lao Tzu "If you are not afraid of dying, there is nothing you cant achieve"....isnt that the ultimate freedom? As fucked up as it is or as fucked up as we view it to be; they have their beliefs we have ours, they chose to attack us for them. That cannot be argued. But to say they hate freedom is just not understanding their view just like they dont understand us saying "well we're innocent bystanders".

[Christopherson]

I can't quite comprend what you are saying. In what ways were the 1990's better than the 2000's? I could argue that the 2000's are better because we have better technology and advancements.

If you look at my original post I never said the 1990's weren't a good time. We, on American soil, had very little to worry about. We felt protected and the technology boom was in full force. However, the false sense of security has costed us dearly. The lack of aggression and confrontation against terrorism has hurt us today. It was a lack of courage on the part of the government.

I am so sorry I struck a nerve when I decided to voice my opinion. I'll remember next time that I should always agree with the crowd. Doesn't that popular saying go, "What's popular is always right and what's right is always popular"?

You guys are excatly 100% correct. I have no clue what the 1990's were like and you guys can tell it to me like it is. You guys are what...5 years older than me maybe? That makes you an expert and me nothing more than a newb? Give me a break. Terrorism wasn't born in the 1990's but it spread like a wild fire and nobody had the courage or awareness to do anything about it. I'm not sure how you can blame terrorism on the currente administration when it had been brewing for well over a decade. President Bush is not the reason why we are hated. We were hated in the 1990's and that was long before the current administration. We were hated when Clinton was in office. They hate freedom. They hate what we stand for. It doesn't matter who is in office. They want you to think it is because of President Bush so you'll put another appeasement-minded politician in office so they can continue to grow and preach hate.

You call it propaganda and ignorance and say I'm close-minded. I think you a hypocrite who cannot handle an opposite opinion of yours.

Riot, you better watch you ass man. You come on here 100% of the time expecting everyone is going to attack you because you are conservative. You immediatley assumed I was attacking you for that. All I was saying is that Bigh0rt was talking about how great the 90's were. Not how politically awesome or terror free the were. How Great They Were. Thats a feeling that only someone who was mature enough to comprehend life at the time could have experienced. I'm just asking you not pretend like you know the everyday feelings of a society based on a few highlight reels you watched in history class. Life in the United States today is about much more than what will be in a history book in ten years.

I agree with you and most of your political views. Sometimes I might confuse you for being a little bit defensive, but its better than being apathetic in my opinion. Your staunch conservatism is a breath of fresh air for me. I hate waking up in the liberal cess poll of a college town I live in, which may be the reason for you change in views Illini. College is where most people end up finding the philosphies they will carry with them for the rest of their lives, so choose wisely.


As for the actual discussion the thread was inteded for, I think people are forgetting another person who has tossed thier hat into the ring, Bill Richardson, a Latino candiate. This might shape up as the most interesting election in history. It will be interesting to see how the minority vote turns out. For the record, I am firmly aboard the McCain for President bandwagon.

[Bang]

No matter who gets elected, the results won't be that drastically different. If the system is wrong, then the people within the system are only allowed to make the wrong moves.

[frenchy]

If the French are able to elect a woman as president I believe american people are able too.

But I am not sure we will one day have a black woman for President.

[Tuomas]

Finland has a woman for president for the second time in a row, but in our system most of president's powers have been transferred to the government, thus making it more demographic, which in my opinion is a good thing.

[Mikki]

Finland has a woman for president for the second time in a row...

LMAO I remembered.



FAGERSTROM also comes to mind.

[BigKaboom2]

Whoa.

[Sauru]

i think the country will be alot better off when they stop seeing things in black or white. instead of saying "first black president" why not just say "obama for president". throwing the word black into everything just keeps the race issue alive and going and fresh in everyones minds. the sooner people in this country stop seeing stuff in black and white, or male and female the better off we will be. if its obama vs clinton then so be it. neither one of them will greatly improve this country anything. we could ellect some kid who just finished taking his GED test and we would be about the same anyway. we still would be outsourceing all the jobs to other countries and giving the lower end jobs to illegals. so who cares who becomes pres?

[debiler]

Don't vote for Hilary, guys! We elected the first female chancellor in 2005, and all they did for the next half of the year was talk about her hairstyle... :-/

[el badman]

Dave Chapelle for president.

[Christopherson]

i think the country will be alot better off when they stop seeing things in black or white. instead of saying "first black president" why not just say "obama for president". throwing the word black into everything just keeps the race issue alive and going and fresh in everyones minds. the sooner people in this country stop seeing stuff in black and white, or male and female the better off we will be.

Amen my brother, amen. In my mind, the most racist people are the ones who are always pointing out the difference between black and white. Take the Super Bowl, for instance. I saw it as two coaches, not two black coaches.

I think people who are constantly forcing things so that minorities get special treatment are only keeping racism alive.

[Sauru]

the thing with the superbowl kinda angered me because the way the media kept talking about the 2 first black coaches ever. it sounded like they were saying "good for you, as a black man you could make the superbowl". it sounded rather insulting to me. so many news stories about how the black community loved it but it all sounded insulting how the media went about it. to me, 2 good coaches made the big game.

[[Q]]

the thing with the superbowl kinda angered me because the way the media kept talking about the 2 first black coaches ever. it sounded like they were saying "good for you, as a black man you could make the superbowl". it sounded rather insulting to me. so many news stories about how the black community loved it but it all sounded insulting how the media went about it. to me, 2 good coaches made the big game.

I do agree with that. I mean, they're 2 good coaches, but fuckin ESPN can't report on anything else but how they're both black. ok, they're black but I wonder if ESPN noticed what did they do to get to the superbowl.

[Riot]

the thing with the superbowl kinda angered me because the way the media kept talking about the 2 first black coaches ever. it sounded like they were saying "good for you, as a black man you could make the superbowl". it sounded rather insulting to me. so many news stories about how the black community loved it but it all sounded insulting how the media went about it. to me, 2 good coaches made the big game.

It was a good trivia fact and I would have been fine with it if they used it as such. You know, just throw it in there when they are talking about the game. However, the decided to make it a headline and it pissed the shit out of me. It's the same thing with the Barbaro thing. They were giving us constant updates on his condition like I really care about a freaking horse.

I swear they talked more about Barbaro's death than they did Darrent Williams' or some other athletes.