Best in the game (NOW)

[---]

but i dont even think he should still be talked about

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, thats the worst thing ive read since my debate with KBryant8 (like 2 days ago )

21.8ppg 12.7rpg 4.1apg 1.37spg 1.41bpg, leading the league in efficiency and rebounds per is definately something to talk about....

[Riot]

Well, let's just say not picking up the slack is not something a top player does during a season, I personally think KG was unhappy and tanking it last year to get a trade.

How many games did you watch of the Timberwolves last season? If you watched any of them you would realize that Garnett gave everything he had last year. It got the point where you honestly felt bad for him because he was out there trying so damn hard to win and the losers around him couldn't get it together. He tried so hard to keep Eddie Griffin in line. He tried so hard to rally Ricky Davis and the other new teammates together. He tried so hard to take Rashad McCants under his wing. He tried so hard to teach an inexperienced coaching staff what he has learned in his 11 years in the league. He put up the stats he put up along with all those things and you have the nerve to say he tanked? You must have been watching another #21 because that is not Garnett.

Garnett sat out at the end of the year because Kevin McHale and Glen Taylor made him sit out. Garnett was actually angry that he got benched and if anything he would demand a trade because he was benched. If Garnett wanted to demand a trade he would...but he has too much respect for the game and for the team to do that. Do you really think Garnett would tank and give up? Does that sound like something he would do? We all know the one word you can use to describe Garnett is passion. Garnett's effort was outstanding last year and you shoudl not question that despite the team's lack of success. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce you way and your teammates can't pick up the slack. I'm sure you've been on a basketball team that just wasn't very good. It doesn't mean everyone on the team is bad it just means collectively you aren't as talented as the team you are playing. When you have a young coaching staff and a bunch of new players it can be difficult to rally and win ball games in the NBA.

[Gundy]

It's very easy to choke when you go to basket hard, get chokeslamed by Haslem/Shaq/Zo and don't get to the line, gotta kill a guys confidence you know.

That's exactly what makes him soft. Push him around and he doesn't play the same. Push Wade around and he'll keep on playing the same.

Indeed, because you too were brainwashed by the NBA hype machine D-wade #1?, c-mon dude shot 17% from the 3 point line last season. 3 seconds left, Miami down by 3, Shaq might as well take the last shot.

He shot 17% from three mostly because he only shot them at the buzzer or when there was no other choice. Also, he shot 38% from three in the playoffs.

[Matt]

Push Wade around and he'll keep on playing the same

yeah right, like that's even possible. Touch him and he's on the line.

[sdot_thadon]

yeah right, like that's even possible. Touch him and he's on the line.

you've been assessed a personal foul for even saying that.

He shot 17% from three mostly because he only shot them at the buzzer or when there was no other choice. Also, he shot 38% from three in the playoffs.

true, but he only shot them when forced so he didn't want to shoot them for fear of missing. He stepped up big-time in the playoffs though i'll give you that.


KG was unhappy and basically wanting a trade last year, he just wouldn't put it in press. And Kobe's team sucked too, yet we watched him in the playoffs.

[magius]

right now? based purely on last season...

1. kobe bryant
2. lebron james
3. dwayne wade
4. dirk nowitzki
5. steve nash
6. elton brand
7. tim duncan
8. allen iverson
9. kevin garnett
10. shawn marion

that said I if I were a gm I would easily pick some of the players on the bottom half of that list to build a team around over the top half. That is because I asssume the question asked is looking for the best individual player right now.... which sometimes, in fact, often, imo does not translate to an actual 'better player.' the best player in the nba is still tim duncan. the most talented player imo in the nba is lebron james.

[Matthew]

Best player is still tim duncan? How can you say that when he averaged under 20 ppg? It's a flip of the coin as to who the most talented is out of kobe, lebron and wade.

[magius]

I can say that because san antonio still finished 1st in the west, and 2nd overall. By my standards I have a harder time considering the best player on a 7 or 8 seed a 'better player' than that of a 1 or 2.

[Matthew]

It doesnt have to be kobe as the best. What about dirk (60 + wins, plus outdueled duncan in the playoffs)?

[magius]

I still give it to duncan because he anchors san antonio defensively and offensively. You can say that dirk has more effect offensively, and I'd agree that, this year, yes... but imo only slightly; I don't think td's ppg reflects how much he truly effects sa offense.

and not that it matters, but i think duncan outplayed dirk in the playoffs. but of course sa lost so who cares.

[Matthew]

Who do ou think anchors the mavericks defense then, diop? . But to say Dirk has the advantage "only slightly" over duncan is ludacris. Duncan has been relegated to the third option on the spurs offense with parker and manu running the plays and setting things up for duncan more then the other way around.

[magius]

3rd option? please. parker averages 18.9, td averages 18.6. td doesn't need parker to get his, parker needs td. San antonio is still an inside out team, no question - the difference is td still gets his touches, but spreads it. Parker is a 14 and 5-6 pg shooting 450 at best without td. To say that a subpar playmaker and a sg, who has never played 30 mpg over a season his entire career, are what makes the best in the west's offense go honestly baffles me.

dallas plays team defense, while sa funnels into td. theres a difference.

[Matthew]

The structure of the offense doesnt change that much when horry comes in for duncan, thats their offense. It was designed for when duncan was in his prime, and when duncan was at his best this of course wasnt in question.

But Duncan is not in his prime

And parker has taken over and Manu is more of a threat when he is in the game.

You think San Antonio is the west's best? Please. The lost game 7 at home to the Mavs. Until they beat them, the mavs own that title.

And yes, dallas does play team defense, but dirk is the guy who comes over on help defense most of the time. Sure players arent funneled into him (good term), but he still anchors it nethertheless

[magius]

I am really going to disagree with you here. I absolutely do not think tp is what makes sa offense go.

Ok, for one you are saying that dallas is the west's best because they won in the playoffs. fine. but in that case it also fair to disregard the regular season when looking at sa's offense. Now look at sa's playoff numbers vs tp's playoff numbers: td - 25.8ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.3 apg 58fg. tp - 21.1 ppg, 3.8 apg, 460fg%. So you are telling me that in the playoffs, where it matters most, the number one option, the man who has "taken over" scores less and averages just 0.5 apg more than a power forward?! You are telling me that the "third option" averages 25.8ppg?

just because horry slots into td's spot means nothing -after all, nve or udrih slot into tp's don't they? the structure of the offense may not change, but the effectiveness does.

the very fact that sa funnels into td translates its dependence on him defensively. While dirk is obviously a neccessary part of dallas's defense while he is on the floor it does not depend or revolve around him. that to me is the definition of 'anchor' - not simply a weakside defender... in which case zach randolph would be a defensive anchor.

[---]

the very fact that sa funnels into td translates its dependence on him defensively

Good point. TD is the defensive dependance, and then just have a look at San Antonio's defence. Thats a good way to show how important TD is to his team on D

[Matthew]

I am really going to disagree with you here. I absolutely do not think tp is what makes sa offense go.

Ok, for one you are saying that dallas is the west's best because they won in the playoffs. fine. but in that case it also fair to disregard the regular season when looking at sa's offense. Now look at sa's playoff numbers vs tp's playoff numbers: td - 25.8ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.3 apg 58fg. tp - 21.1 ppg, 3.8 apg, 460fg%. So you are telling me that in the playoffs, where it matters most, the number one option, the man who has "taken over" scores less and averages just 0.5 apg more than a power forward?! You are telling me that the "third option" averages 25.8ppg?

just because horry slots into td's spot means nothing -after all, nve or udrih slot into tp's don't they? the structure of the offense may not change, but the effectiveness does.

the very fact that sa funnels into td translates its dependence on him defensively. While dirk is obviously a neccessary part of dallas's defense while he is on the floor it does not depend or revolve around him. that to me is the definition of 'anchor' - not simply a weakside defender... in which case zach randolph would be a defensive anchor.

Zach Randolph doesn't provide noteworthy help defense. You bring up some good points about Duncan stepping up in the playoffs, but I'd still take Dirk over him. An entire season and very strong playoffs is better then a subpar season and a solid playoffs... and thats not taking into account the fact that dirk ended the championship defence by himself with that 3point play in ot.

[air gordon]

1 Dwayne Wade
2 Bryant
3 Dirk
4 Duncan
5 James

what a crappy list

Indeed, because you too were brainwashed by the NBA hype machine D-wade #1?, c-mon dude shot 17% from the 3 point line last season. 3 seconds left, Miami down by 3, Shaq might as well take the last shot.
.

lol who are you? i guess i am really brainwashed since 3pt shooting apparently is a big factor in determining who is the best player in the nba is

[cklitsie]

You may want to totally rethink your stance if cklitsie is endorsing your opinion.

Hmm interesting, this is supposed to make sense how?

Tell me this ain't the f-cking truth:

6. Dwyane Wade (no defense, a primadona, but still unstoppable going to the basket (although refs have quite a role in that manner))

[air gordon]

the f-ing truth is that superstars get the calls. let's just not single out one

superstar wing players with aggressive games like Iverson, Pierce, Bryant, Wade, etc know this and take advantage of it.

the same goes with post players. Duncan was indefensible a few years back when he was fully healthy.

[Riot]

KG was unhappy and basically wanting a trade last year, he just wouldn't put it in press. And Kobe's team sucked too, yet we watched him in the playoffs.

Garnett was unhappy about losing. However, how do you know Garnett "basically wanted a trade". Do you have any information on that? He never said anything like that and if he really did want out he would get out. It's that simple.

It is easier for a guard to carry his team now than it is for a big man. Look at the Spurs and the Heat if you don't believe me. Tony Parker and Dwyane Wade had to step up for those two teams to have the seasons they had. The new rules have made it a guard league and that makes it difficult on the big men. How can you fault Garnett, who gets doubled and triple teamed, when he kicks it out to the open man and they cannot make the basket or the play? It's easier for Kobe to drive and create offense than it is for Garnett. Garnett is much more dependent on his players because of his position in the post and the fact that he is a big man, meaning he cannot create off the dribble as well as the guards.

[gobulls]

steve nash

[sdot_thadon]

lol who are you? i guess i am really brainwashed since 3pt shooting apparently is a big factor in determining who is the best player in the nba is

It matters when the talent level you are comparing is so close. By the numbers D-wade was prettty close to Bron and Kobe except when it comes to the three-ball, so basically thats their leg-up on Wade. That and maybe defense.

Garnett was unhappy about losing. However, how do you know Garnett "basically wanted a trade". Do you have any information on that? He never said anything like that and if he really did want out he would get out. It's that simple.

It is, check it out:

When asked if he’d want to leave Minnesota if the team didn’t improve, Garnett said, “I got to…If you’re not working towards a championship, then why are we in this? I’m in it to win, man, I’m not in it to be coming back talking about next year. I’m 30. I’ve probably got 4 to 5 years, you know what I’m saying? My clock is ticking, man. I’m almost like a woman who’s trying to get pregnant. My years are limited, so my clock is definitely ticking.”

That good enough for you? And it's not so easy to boom get a trade whenever you want. KG is an investment to Kevin McHale and he's not going to give him away.

[Matt]

62 & 81

[Weiland]

all of those bout KG may be true..but still...no need to talk about him...i wudnt even trade shawn marion for KG

[sdot_thadon]

62 & 81

....and home in time to see the second round on TV.