A summation of the current Kobe situation

[Boyk]

I think the possibility remains that Kobe may not be guilty of rape, but he could still be guilty of sexual abuse. She may well have consented to sex, but she could have asked him to stop (and he didn't), or he might have demanded that she do something she didn't want to do. Still an offense, but not quite as serious as rape.

Well hes being charged with sexual assault.
Is that rape or just another term.

coz around here in my town, some guy got convicted with sexual assualt, and got 10 years probation or sum crap.
so now im not sure what kobe is charged for

[EGarrett]

According to the Binary Report, the sealed documents that attorney's are fighting tooth and nail over are another court report where Ms. Faber apparently accused someone else of raping her before this case...

Of course...that doesn't excuse Kobe...who cheated on his wife who was at home with his infant baby. Quite the slimeball move...

...it's not like I gave details

It was more information than we needed...

[TRUball]

That's because the surgery was days after the incident,

LOL, so he hadn't had the knee surgery yet?

acually ya he did have surgury before it happened, and even if he didn't, than he knee would be hurting even more if he didn't have surgury yet

[KDWilliams85]

Let me expose something to you guys... the term contradiction is used too often when exploring the validity of the crime.

When 2 opposing stories are told, there HAS to be at least one thing in common, that the crime occured. Now, other factors come into play.

The contradiction isn't whether it was committed, the contradiction is HOW.

If he's admitted to having sexual relations with the bitch, then he's already guilty. The motives are none of our business.


Bottom line is that the crime isn't whether he did it or not, it's the interpretation of the underlying facts.

[Wall St. Peon]

Well hes being charged with sexual assault.
Is that rape or just another term.

coz around here in my town, some guy got convicted with sexual assualt, and got 10 years probation or sum crap.
so now im not sure what kobe is charged for

She's saying she was raped, so that's the main charge. I'm sure there's probably multiple charges (as there usually are in criminal cases), and rape is the main one, but there's probaby some lesser charges. In the end, Kobe will either be found innocent or plea to a lesser charge and get probation (which I feel is most likely).

It was more information than we needed...

*shrug* He asked, I told....

acually ya he did have surgury before it happened, and even if he didn't, than he knee would be hurting even more if he didn't have surgury yet

I doubt it if he waited till July to have surgery on a knee that had been bothering him - and which he played on - since January. It was probably just some sort of corrective surgery, say draining or removal of bone spurs or something.

Bottom line is that the crime isn't whether he did it or not, it's the interpretation of the underlying facts.

All too true!

[EGarrett]

Bottom line is that the crime isn't whether he did it or not, it's the interpretation of the underlying facts.

Well...the bottom line to me is whether he's going to jail or not...and in that case...it is whether he committed the crime (forced himself on her) or not.

Also...there is a contradiction in stories...neither is denying that they had sex...but she is saying that he raped her and Kobe is saying he didn't...so they are disagreeing on whether there was a crime occurring that night. Adultery, while frowned upon, is not illegal.

[benji]

Actually...last I knew Adultery is illegal in 49 of the 50 states...the one being Pennsylvania...

Of course...Lawrence v. Texas pretty much elimates any sort of law regarding such things as sodomy, prostitution, adultery, beastiality, bigamy, and incest...so you're theoretically correct...

[EGarrett]

I checked around and the only concrete word I could find on it was from this lawyer's site.

It says it's not illegal...but then again I'm no lawyer...I just know that no one goes to jail for it...

[Andrew]

Well hes being charged with sexual assault.
Is that rape or just another term.

As Shane said rape is the main charge, but there are lesser charges. Sexual assault need not mean rape.

[Bourbon]

Andrew, thanks for starting this thread; the others were getting out a little out of hand, almost to the point of making posting difficult.

Anyway, on with the show ...

If he's admitted to having sexual relations with the bitch, then he's already guilty. The motives are none of our business.

He's guilty if the jury determines the sex wasn't consensual.

She's saying she was raped, so that's the main charge. I'm sure there's probably multiple charges (as there usually are in criminal cases), and rape is the main one, but there's probaby some lesser charges.

Actually, he's been served with only one count of sexual assault.

As Shane said rape is the main charge, but there are lesser charges. Sexual assault need not mean rape.

In this case, it does, and it's exclusively limited to what we know as "rape."

I'm just trying to clarify for anyone who may be confused, but Kobe's been charged with one count of sexual assault, a Class 3 felony. Here's a copy of the exact statue he's said to have violated, pursuant to Mark Hurlbert's brief.

18-3-402. Sexual assault in the first degree.
Any actor who knowingly inflicts sexual intrusion or sexual penetration on a victim commits a sexual assault in the first degree if:
(a) The actor causes submission of the victim through the actual application of physical force or physical violence; or
The actor causes submission of the victim by threat of imminent death, serious bodily injury, extreme pain, or kidnapping, to be inflicted on anyone, and the victim believes that the actor has the present ability to execute these threats; or
(c) The actor causes submission of the victim by threatening to retaliate in the future against the victim, or any other person, and victim reasonably believes the actor will execute this threat. As uses in this paragraph (c), "to retaliate" includes threats of kidnapping, death, serious bodily injury, or extreme pain; or
(d) The actor has substantially impaired the victim's power to appraise or control the victim's conduct by employing, without the victim's consent, any drug, intoxicant, or other means for the purpose of causing submission; or
(e) The victim is physically helpless and the actor knows the victim is physically helpless and the victim has not consented.

The recurring theme of submission without consent effectively reduces the pending trial to a simple question: Was the sex consensual? Barring the possibility of a plea agreement, (which, at this point, is incredibly unlikely) Kobe will be found either guilty or not guilty of violating the above statute, with no in-betweens and no "lesser charges."

[scubilete]

acually ya he did have surgury before it happened

I know I started this argument but I already recognized I was wrong after I read this:

A chronology of events in the investigation of sexual assault allegations against Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant:

June 30: Bryant arrives at the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera near Edwards, Colo., after 10 p.m., for knee surgery at Steadman Hawkins Clinic in Vail.

July 1: A 19-year-old front desk employee tells Eagle County Sheriff's Department that Bryant sexually assaulted her. Bryant undergoes surgery at Steadman Hawkins.

July 2: Sheriff's deputies take Bryant to a hospital for undisclosed tests.

July 4: Sheriff Joe Hoy issues an arrest warrant for Bryant, who has since returned to California. Bryant flies back to Eagle County, surrenders and is released after posting $25,000 bond.

July 6: Bryant's arrest is made public. Hoy refuses to release booking photo.

July 7: District Attorney Mark Hurlbert says it may take several days before he decides whether to file charges.

July 11: Under media pressure, Hoy releases booking photo.

July 17: Vail Daily asks judge to order Eagle police to release two reports relating to the alleged victim from a month before the alleged assault.

July 18: Hurlbert announces that Bryant will be charged with one count of felony sexual assault.

I know it is confusing but assuming everything goes in order, the girl accused Bryant before or while he was having the surgery so I don't think Bryant did it after the surgery.

[benji]

I checked around and the only concrete word I could find on it was from this lawyer's site.

It says it's not illegal...but then again I'm no lawyer...I just know that no one goes to jail for it...

Just because no one goes to jail for it, doesn't make it not illegal.

What I found checking statute laws...
1993: Adultery is illegal in 49 of 50 (and DC) states...
1997: Adultery is illegal in 27 of 50 (and DC) states...
2003: Adultery is illegal in 20 of 50 (and DC) states...

However, the implications of Lawrence v. Texas, make it so theoretically any and all can be struck down by citing Lawrence v. Texas as designating a private sexual act under the falsehood of a right to privacy in the Fourth Amendment...

[EGarrett]

Just because no one goes to jail for it, doesn't make it not illegal.

What I found checking statute laws...
1993: Adultery is illegal in 49 of 50 (and DC) states...
1997: Adultery is illegal in 27 of 50 (and DC) states...
2003: Adultery is illegal in 20 of 50 (and DC) states...

However, the implications of Lawrence v. Texas, make it so theoretically any and all can be struck down by citing Lawrence v. Texas as designating a private sexual act under the falsehood of a right to privacy in the Fourth Amendment...

Then I'll revise my statement to "adultery isn't illegal in most states and no one goes to jail for it."

[Andrew]

Some more articles:

Prosecution expected to pursue injuries, inconsistency

That article suggests that my suggestion may be correct.

I think the possibility remains that Kobe may not be guilty of rape, but he could still be guilty of sexual abuse. She may well have consented to sex, but she could have asked him to stop (and he didn't), or he might have demanded that she do something she didn't want to do.

ABC News sources claim that the two engaged in some consensual sexual activity in Bryant's room, but that the intercourse that took place was not consensual. Those same sources say that the alleged victim sustained some physical injuries, which Eagle County District Attorney Mark Hurlburt and his staff plan to say prove that the sex was not consensual.

I thought this was interesting too:

Judge warns media against using alleged victim's name

Some people are saying it's unconstitutional. Also, it mentions what we should have known:

More than a dozen Web sites have also wrongly identified another young woman as Bryant's accuser. On Wednesday, she asked publicly that her name and photograph be removed from the sites.

"It has hurt me as a person," Katie Lovell told ABC's "Good Morning America."

Exactly why the alleged victim's details shouldn't be released. A lot of people would probably use the information to hunt her down to harrass and threaten her.

[ThisizaJackMove]

The woman suffered physical trauma in the vaginal area, the Rocky Mountain News reported Thursday, citing law enforcement sources close to the investigation.

Damn kobe f!cked the sh!t outta her.[/quote]

[TravisLee324]

The woman suffered physical trauma in the vaginal area, the Rocky Mountain News reported Thursday, citing law enforcement sources close to the investigation.

Damn kobe f!cked the sh!t outta her.

So does that mean trouble for Kobe Bryant?

[Old School Fool]

Oh man.......The Vaginal Area.........i feel hurt now the more deeper about WHAT KOBE DID TO THE WOMAN the lower my fan base for kobe goes stop man

[Andrew]

So does that mean trouble for Kobe Bryant?

It certainly doesn't help him, but it's not enough to convict him of rape. The prosecution still needs to prove that it wasn't consensual before he's found guilty of rape. Until such time, he's innocent as far as the law is concerned.

[Boyk]

The Judge warns the media not to give out the victims name, theres already favourtism in the case.
Kobes name is all over the place. it should be equal no matter how popular or how lonely the person is.

I read that this gir lapparentley was advised to go into a mental clinic about 3-4 months before this....................does this help her?
IMO not really

[Andrew]

The Judge warns the media not to give out the victims name, theres already favourtism in the case.

Considering the way people have treated the girl they thought was the alleged victim, I think she's entitled to some protection.

Kobes name is all over the place. it should be equal no matter how popular or how lonely the person is.

If they released the name of the girl, no doubt people would hunt her down and harrass her. She would be bombarded by angry letters, phone calls, emails and whatnot. I don't think it has anything to do with her being lonely.

I read that this gir lapparentley was advised to go into a mental clinic about 3-4 months before this....................does this help her?
IMO not really

"This girl can't have been raped by Kobe Bryant. She has a history of mental illness." That's not going to work. Physical evidence is not going to be immediately thrown out because the alleged victim has a history of mental illness.

[Boyk]

Andrew, i dont mean that.

But people with Mental conditions, can imagine things that did not really happen.
Like when a mental patient says they were abducted by aliens, are you really gonna beleive them, no.
this is where it could come into place, but we will see what happens i spose

[Andrew]

What exactly did she imagine though? Kobe's admitted to having sex with her, doctors have confirmed there are injuries. Also, mental illness need not mean insane or delusion - it can also mean severe depression.

[EGarrett]

If they released the name of the girl, no doubt people would hunt her down and harrass her. She would be bombarded by angry letters, phone calls, emails and whatnot. I don't think it has anything to do with her being lonely.

You mean people might accuse her of things, call her names, or question her character? Kobe deals with it every day of his life, and it's only gotten worse with this trial. She's not going through anything worse than what Kobe is going through...after all...he's the accused rapist...

"This girl can't have been raped by Kobe Bryant. She has a history of mental illness." That's not going to work. Physical evidence is not going to be immediately thrown out because the alleged victim has a history of mental illness.

"This girl has a history of mental illness. She's horribly overreacted to situations before. She's accused someone of rape before and it was false." Will work. If the jury has a legitimate doubt that this girl is of sound mind and isn't distorting things then they have to let Kobe go.

The accusations of a girl who has a history of overreacting to situations and accusing people of things they didn't do isn't enough to convince me that Kobe Bryant (who we've seen get punched twice in the face and still not want to fight) blew up and raped her. I think Kobe screwed her then threw her out and she had a nervous breakdown...which is right along with both of their characters as much as we know...

[Andrew]

You mean people might accuse her of things, call her names, or question her character? Kobe deals with it every day of his life, and it's only gotten worse with this trial. She's not going through anything worse than what Kobe is going through...after all...he's the accused rapist...

So you're saying sending her threatening emails, making harrassing phone calls and posting her details so that such practices may be possible is perfectly acceptable behaviour?

[TravisLee324]

The Judge warns the media not to give out the victims name, theres already favourtism in the case.
Kobes name is all over the place. it should be equal no matter how popular or how lonely the person is.

Favoritism you say? You got to be kidding me. So you're saying that it is acceptable to release the accuser's name, address, phone number and all that stuff? You see what happened to the Katie Lovell (the girl that was wrongfully accused); see what people are doing to her? So since Kobe's name is everywhere, hers should be too, wrong! Yes in some cases, people should know both names. In this case however, it's better to keep hers private because it is for her own good.

Considering the way people have treated the girl they thought was the alleged victim, I think she's entitled to some protection.

If they released the name of the girl, no doubt people would hunt her down and harrass her. She would be bombarded by angry letters, phone calls, emails and whatnot. I don't think it has anything to do with her being lonely.

Exactly.

But people with Mental conditions, can imagine things that did not really happen.

Injuries to the accuser’s vaginal area have nothing to do with her imagining that things did not happen; nor does mental conditions.

You mean people might accuse her of things, call her names, or question her character?

They already have

She's not going through anything worse than what Kobe is going through...after all...he's the accused rapist...

Well she's the one that being "raped," (I'm not calling Kobe a rapist just yet, but as of late, it does sound like he did do it..).

"This girl has a history of mental illness. She's horribly overreacted to situations before. She's accused someone of rape before and it was false." Will work.

That is so dumb, has she ever accused ANYONE else before of rape? As far as I know, she didn't.

I think Kobe screwed her then threw her out and she had a nervous breakdown...which is right along with both of their characters as much as we know...

Kobe threw her out? "I never thought Kobe would do such a thing. He's not that way; he is a proven winner and would never do something like that. I think she's just having a nervous breakdown cuz of her past."

So you're saying sending her threatening emails, making harrassing phone calls and posting her details so that such practices may be possible is perfectly acceptable behaviour?

I'm pretty sure Kobe fans/supporters would think it's OK to do all those things..

Travis