Chicago Bulls Thread

[Indy]

Why sign Griffin when you just drafted Shefolosha? I don't get it.

Maybe just to turn around and trade him? (Griffin I mean, I don't anticipate a Sefolosha trade.)

[air gordon]

Mae, asdf, and others pretty much covered the thinking behind acquiring Griffin in the JR Smith traded thread

I hope this Griffin signing marks the end of Pargo's stay on the Bulls

[Andrew]

I've definitely got no complaints about the Griffin/JR Smith situation or Pargo's tenure ending. I'll take a reliable, familiar face over a young player who has shown flashes of being a good player but has a questionable attitude anyway. The Bulls already have young players who have potential yet to fulfil (and seem prepared to work hard to achieve that) and are already playing well. Pargo was great for about 12 seconds in the 2005 Playoffs but he hasn't had a hot streak like that since. He's definitely expendable.

[maes]

The Bulls will also continute to watch the Drew Gooden situation. Gooden appears headed for a sign-and-trade scenario and the Cavs probably would want to avoid any big contracts in returnm so a package of Chris Duhon and Michael Sweetney might have work.

“It’s a possibility we’re interested in,” Calvin Andrews, Gooden’s agent, said of the Bulls. “We haven’t talked too much about that happening. It’s up to the Cavs. If something would come up with the Bulls, it would interest us, definitely.”

Last season i was hoping for a Gooden -> Chicago scenario...but now i'm not so sure. Is Gooden worth $10M a year for a Chicago team that still hasn't landed a go-to scorer?

(How about Varajao instead...)

[Fenix]

I'd love to have Varejao on this team. Guys at RealGM succeeded at convincing me that Gooden would help, but still... He's soft as a pillow and will most probably get overpaid.

[Mayerhendrix]

I don't watch too many Bulls games, but isn't Ben Gordon emerging as one of the main go-to scorers?

He had a decent playoffs and first two years in the NBA.

[Its_asdf]

Ben Gordon will never become their main go-to scorer unless Skiles starts giving him more minutes. It's a lot more difficult than it seems, since Duhon Hinrich and I believe now Thabo are also inter-changeable at the two guard spot.

[maes]

I don't watch too many Bulls games, but isn't Ben Gordon emerging as one of the main go-to scorers?

He scores the ball, but he doesn't trigger the Bulls' offense. To compare him (probably unfairly) to a guy a lot of chicagoans wanted, Paul Pierce:

1. Ben shoots 42%, Pierce shoots 47%
2. Ben draws 5.2 fouls per 48min, Pierce draws 12.7 per 48
3. Inside vs Outside
- 17% of Ben's shots were close/inside, and inside he scored at 46%, not much better than shooting outside for him
- 36% of Pierce's shots were inside, and when he went inside he scored at at 61%.
4. Drawing defenders to open it up for your teammates:
- Ben totaled 66 close shot assists & 23 dunk assists & 52 3-pointer assists
- Pierce totaled 124 close shots, 43 dunks, and 97 3-pointer assists

Basically those #s above are telling us that if the other team just plays Ben single coverage and lets him do his thing, the Bulls probably lose. Ben will shoot at 42% and that's enough for the Bulls to lose the game if the whole team shoots 40%.

Pierce, if he's allowed to take the ball inside, will score at such a high rate that the Celts will almost certainly win (61% FG). Thus, opposing teams have to start fouling him or double-team him which gives him foul shots, and opens up his teammates to score on 3 pointers, close shots, and dunks.

To put it another way...Gordon needs a lot of shots to achieve his points. In 10 shots, Gordon scores 11.7 points. In 10 shots Pierce scores 14.5. The difference adds up very quick.

This isn't a rant on Ben Gordon, i love the guy, but i don't think his game is that of a go-to guy for a NBA team. He's too much an outside shooter, and opposing teams don't respect him enough to allow easy baskets for the rest of the Bulls.

[beau_boy04]

maes, i don't know where you've got those numbers but I'd love to see a comparison between Lebron or Kobe vs Pierce.

Thanks.

ps. Ben Gordon will be a great scorer ala Maravich.

[Fenix]

I don't watch too many Bulls games, but isn't Ben Gordon emerging as one of the main go-to scorers?

He scores the ball, but he doesn't trigger the Bulls' offense. To compare him (probably unfairly) to a guy a lot of chicagoans wanted, Paul Pierce:

1. Ben shoots 42%, Pierce shoots 47%
2. Ben draws 5.2 fouls per 48min, Pierce draws 12.7 per 48
3. Inside vs Outside
- 17% of Ben's shots were close/inside, and inside he scored at 46%, not much better than shooting outside for him
- 36% of Pierce's shots were inside, and when he went inside he scored at at 61%.
4. Drawing defenders to open it up for your teammates:
- Ben totaled 66 close shot assists & 23 dunk assists & 52 3-pointer assists
- Pierce totaled 124 close shots, 43 dunks, and 97 3-pointer assists

Basically those #s above are telling us that if the other team just plays Ben single coverage and lets him do his thing, the Bulls probably lose. Ben will shoot at 42% and that's enough for the Bulls to lose the game if the whole team shoots 40%.

Pierce, if he's allowed to take the ball inside, will score at such a high rate that the Celts will almost certainly win (61% FG). Thus, opposing teams have to start fouling him or double-team him which gives him foul shots, and opens up his teammates to score on 3 pointers, close shots, and dunks.

To put it another way...Gordon needs a lot of shots to achieve his points. In 10 shots, Gordon scores 11.7 points. In 10 shots Pierce scores 14.5. The difference adds up very quick.

This isn't a rant on Ben Gordon, i love the guy, but i don't think his game is that of a go-to guy for a NBA team. He's too much an outside shooter, and opposing teams don't respect him enough to allow easy baskets for the rest of the Bulls.

You forgot to mention that the stats were from Gordon's second season and Pierce's 8th. My point is that Gordon will improve, while this is probably Pierce's prime. But still, I agree with what you're trying to say. I'd be most happy to have Gordon on my team, but I'd rather have him play a complementary role on offense, something like Ginobili in SA.

[air gordon]

Ben Gordon will never become their main go-to scorer unless Skiles starts giving him more minutes. It's a lot more difficult than it seems, since Duhon Hinrich and I believe now Thabo are also inter-changeable at the two guard spot.

playing time is not the problem. Gordon averaged 21ppg/41 minutes per game in the playoffs. the big factor here is Gordon's consistency... or lack of it

Gordon is the closest thing to the team's go to scorer, efficient or not efficient, like it or not

at the end of games or in key possessions, most of the time the plays were run for Gordon or Nocioni and sometimes Hinrich

lol i don't know about that Pierce/Gordon comparison. they have 2 entirely different games but i guess since they both don't bring up the ball you can say that have a similarity

Gordon's game is more similar to Ray Allen.. coming off/curling off screens and taking jumpers.... quick isolations and pull up jumpers

[Andrew]

For those who may have missed it, the Bulls have officially signed Thomas and Sefolosha...not that there was much doubt of that happening, of course.

[Fenix]

I found these at YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6DnS4NXI1g&search=tyrus%20thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9EmBNeROE&search=tyrus%20thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvDzHEku_Dc&search=tyrus%20thomas.

A must-see for everyone who missed the SL games. Thabo is going to be something special, trust me.

[maes]

Gordon's game is more similar to Ray Allen.. coming off/curling off screens and taking jumpers.... quick isolations and pull up jumpers

That's a very good point AG, that would be much more accurate, point taken.

It's worth noting that Ray's Sonics played their best when Rashard developed into another legit scoring threat... a few teams put their best defender on Rashard rather than Ray.

If the analogy panned out, i could see Gordon being a go-to guy if another consistent scorer was around to spread the defense out, since Gordon usually doesn't warrant a double team.

[Bullsfan239712]

i think thomas is a bust and about gordon scoring is that he is really young and needs time.....i think that in a couple years he will be one of the biggest scorers.

[Dan's Brain]

why the hell would you think Thomas is a bust? He hasnt even played a regular season game yet. I can't really see Ben Gordon as becoming one of the game's elite scorers. Certainly not while Scott Skiles is coach. This Bulls team is one that works on team play and no one guy taking all of the shots all season long. It really depends on what's required for every game. Some nights Hinrich will be the go-to guy, other nights it could be Nocioni or Luol Deng.

[kinokong]

lol that could be their greatest strength and weakness.... i think the bulls should go after paul pierce.... give up deng, shefoloba, gordon, khryapa, duhon plus some cash for paul pierce, ryan gomes, and a 1st...
what the bulls could have is
c: wallace
pf: brown
sf: noicini
sg: pierce
pg: hinrich
bench: pf-sweetney
sf- gomes/thomas(if he can learn it quickly enough)
sg-griffin

they'd be pretty weak on the bench but im sure that they can always sign hardened veterans on the bench.... that lineup could destroy the league right there.... a mixture of offense and defense

[Its_asdf]

Giving up Deng, Thabo and Gordon? That's too much of the Bulls depth being chucked out the window for a really good player; although he's in his prime and all three of those players are yet to reach theirs. I'd rather prefer the Bulls to be a youthful team with a ton of depth.

[beau_boy04]

Yes I agreed! that's giving too much and they should play hard just like last season and with the addition of Ben Wallace and the two youngsters they would be better than last season and plus with that first round pick from NY the future is looking brighter and brighter.

[kinokong]

but having too deep of a bench can hinder a players development and cause chemistry problems.... that's why i believe the bulls should ship out some of the young players to bring in a franchise player.... and paul pierce just a really good player? the last time i checked he average something like 25/5/5 while shooting a good percentage.... that's like saying shaq is an average man.... also after posting i decided that this indeed was too much so how about switching thabo with sweetney.... my revised trade is
BOS sends: Paul Pierce, Ryan Gomes and 2nd
CHI sends: Deng, Gordon, Sweetney, Kryphka and cash

and id like to ask you guys a question.... if you switched pierce with kobe would there be any arguments at all? id bet half this forum says that the lakers are getting totally ripped... so why not with pierce?

[Dean]

I doubt any body would want the Bulls to trade anybody for Kobe.. It would throw the team-first mentality out the window. Pierce in my opinion would be able to play as a team, and take over when needed.

[Dan's Brain]

I'm still more than happy with the team as it is. The Bulls havent even begun to hit to their prime as a team, and they need to develop together with what they have before they decide to cut their losses and go for broke. They've got the potential to be very good for a very long time and sending away more than half of the team's core to make a move that would only make them (IMO) slightly better in the short term worries me a lot. If i was going to bring in anything, it would just be some solid size, to make them more of an inside-outside team. That's my only concern with the Bulls for now.

[kinokong]

lol planning for the future.... in the future, even if these bulls develop to their full potential, theres gonna be pure franchise talents such as wade, james and oden standing in their way... they'll maybe win 2 championships supposing that everyone develops to their full potential

[Mayerhendrix]

Well, Wade and James are going to be singlehandedly carrying the team, and those types of teams can always be shut down by double-teaming.

It's hard to break a team-first group in which most players are approaching/in their prime.

[kinokong]

i doubt that the cavs and heat r gonna be sitting around on their asses once big contracts such as shaqs and ilgauskas get off the books....
but i do have to admit... the bulls have a pretty bright future.... especially if ny seriously fucks up this year one of the most star loaded classes.... oden, walker, noah, durant, mcroberts, young, wright. all ny has to do is finish in the bottom 7 and they have a chance to land one of them