Chicago Bulls Thread

[Its_asdf]

I've seen the actual gif before... I think the guy in the middle (Songaila) is actually Jean Claude Van Dam if I remember correctly.

Anyway, I just thought I'd pop by and say that I was rooting for the Bulls in this series even though they were the underdogs. I just have a dislike for the Heat. They are not getting past New Jersey/Detriot/Cleveland. Miami's team is known for not beating the top tier teams in the league.

[Donatello]

I'm incredibly disappointed that the Bulls didn't eliminate Dwyane "Sir Falls-a-lot" Wade and Shaq.

Good luck next year, Bulls fans.

[Scotty]

yeah too bad about the Bulls, i was definately going for them

[Andrew]

When I think about how would the series have went if Songaila would be available. Another what if...

Obviously they would have swept the Heat winning by an average of 25 points, given that Darius Songaila is the greatest player in the world but doesn't get a chance to prove it because Scott Skiles is a racist.

Come on, he's a solid bench player and has been good for them this year but to suggest his absence cost the Bulls this series is absurd, utterly ridiculous. They didn't seem to miss him much as they finish 12-2 to make the Playoffs in the first place. Perhaps I'm mistaking you for someone else, but weren't you the person that suggested their chances of making the postseason were blown once Songaila went down with injury? I would suggest that wasn't the case.

The fortunes of the Chicago Bulls do not rest on the shoulders of Darius Songaila. If they do, then I'd suggest replacing Skiles immediately.

EDIT: Fixed typos

[Jugs]

but weren't you the person that suggested their chances of making the postseason were blown once Songaila went down with injury

http://www.nbaliveforums.com/sutra535842.php#535842

Ya RLY.

[Andrew]

I thought so.

Oh and Jugs, thanks for reminding me about that quote of yours, too. I never did get a chance to rub that in. But now I will.

[Drex]

LMAO, first you rub in that the Sixers aren't in the playoffs and now this. You're a harsh, harsh man

[air gordon]

the way the series played out pretty much sums up the bulls season- they played hard but were down early, battled back and put themselves to take charge of the series, but in the end they crapped in their pants

there were some positives i drew from this series and season overall:
-Hinrich is quietly becoming one of the better perimeter defenders in the league. he did a great job on one of the league's best scorers and he didn't have to talk shit in the press or act like he's in a street fight like some other guy is doing

-Nocioni, who got robbed for Most Improved Player ( ), should be starting for this team next year. His improvement and importance to the team cannot be overstated. Last year he was this 'grazy' guy who could be counted on for hustle plays but could not trusted to when he had the ball. This year his offense made a 180 and he still remained a hustle player. Hinrich is considered the team leader but "Noce" is the team's heart

-Skiles is a great coach and should remain the Bulls coach. Often i'm second guessing a lot of his moves and sometimes i even want him fired, but in the end Skiles does get the most out of the talent he has to work with and he's a great "X and O' guy.


And of course there are negatives:
-the Chandler situation. i don't feel like elaborating further on my disappointment since this issue has been discussed in this thread and others. i give Chandler half a year to prove himself. if Chandler didn't post a near double double in the series vs Washington last year, i'd probably would have given up on him by now (and ronic as it sounds- as shitty as Chandler was, he played Shaq the best)

-Ben Gordon's consistency. There were some big expectations for this guy and I don't think he met them. There were some improvements in his game- showed more 'playmaking' ability, would attack the basket instead of settling for jumpers, and played better defense but he'd still go through those stretches where it just seemed like he was out of it- silly passes, forced shots, and shotty defense. At least there's no worries about Gordon being lax in the offseason- he will probably have a killer offseason regime like last year's.

-Paxson's patience in finding a star for this team. So far this has been a good thing as he has been the architect for this team getting back to a level of respectability. but that's 2 first round exits now- the pressure has to be mounting. he's got 2 first round picks this year and plenty of cap to work with this offseason. assuming none of his players hop on a motorcycle or receive news they may have a fatal heart condition, Paxson has no excuses: he MUST bring in a star or some kind of impact player.


i think it's been beaten to death that the Bulls need a quality post player. Nazr Mohammed looks to be good stop gap player, assuming they are in position to draft LaMarcus Aldridge. I hope that the Bulls go after Benji's favorite, Drew Gooden. the only problem is that Gooden is playing like a beast while his supposed replacement Varejo is playing like shite. Cleveland probably won't let him go for free

I'm still open to trading any of the players. No one on this team should be untouchable. Nocioni's trade value is probably at it's highest, as well as Hinrich. A contending team would love to get Gordon's clutch scoring. There will be plenty of rumors this offsseason about star players wanting out, despite telling the press they want to stay with their respective team- Bosh, Pierce, Garnett, J O'Neal, etc. and since the Bulls have a lot cap and draft picks, they will be included in the rumors.

The next big date is May 23, the day the draft order is selected. they have the 2nd highest chance of landing the top pick i think. we'll see what happens

anyway- a so-so season overall. a lot peaks and valleys. boy when they have those peak/tease performances it looks like this team can be dangerous. c'mon, Pax, get us a stud in the offseason

[Andrew]

LMAO, first you rub in that the Sixers aren't in the playoffs and now this. You're a harsh, harsh man

That's why I always wait until I see the result before I boast.

-Skiles is a great coach and should remain the Bulls coach. Often i'm second guessing a lot of his moves and sometimes i even want him fired, but in the end Skiles does get the most out of the talent he has to work with and he's a great "X and O' guy.

I feel that way at times too, particularly in games where the team lacked a scoring punch and Gordon sat on the bench. But as you said, he's found a way to take the roster at his disposal and make the most of it. Sometimes I think his coaching style has a "cutting your nose off to spite your face" aspect to it but it seems to work with this team.

-Paxson's patience in finding a star for this team. So far this has been a good thing as he has been the architect for this team getting back to a level of respectability. but that's 2 first round exits now- the pressure has to be mounting. he's got 2 first round picks this year and plenty of cap to work with this offseason. assuming none of his players hop on a motorcycle or receive news they may have a fatal heart condition, Paxson has no excuses: he MUST bring in a star or some kind of impact player.

Doesn't sound like that will be changing anytime soon.

I'm still open to trading any of the players. No one on this team should be untouchable. Nocioni's trade value is probably at it's highest, as well as Hinrich. A contending team would love to get Gordon's clutch scoring. There will be plenty of rumors this offsseason about star players wanting out, despite telling the press they want to stay with their respective team- Bosh, Pierce, Garnett, J O'Neal, etc. and since the Bulls have a lot cap and draft picks, they will be included in the rumors.

I wouldn't say I'm completely against breaking up the current core but I do believe when you have the rare opportunity to improve your team and make additions without subtractions, you should explore that opportunity. Besides, even if those players want out, their teams would likely want two or three of the Bulls' key players in return which I'd expect would result in a similar situation they're in with their current teams. Failing to surround KG and Pierce with help hasn't exactly worked out for the best.

Overall, it's been a decent year. I expected them to do a little better but a great run to finish the year and another playoff appearance despite trading away the leading scorer for the second straight offseason. I know there's still matters of concern, Gordon's consistency, Chandler, putting those picks and the cap space to good use but I think there's reason for optimism. They've got some good, young talent, gained some more playoff experience and now have some options to build upon what they already have. It could be a lot worse. We even got to see some memorable performances.

[shadowgrin]

Friday, in an informal media gathering, Paxson reiterated he would look for players who meet the demanding criteria he and coach Scott Skiles set.

The translation: Don't expect a star

Sounds like what Paxson is doing is similar to what Joe D did with the Pistons, except for the star coach (Larry Brown).

[beau_boy04]

I think Ben Gordon should be coming off the bench for good. He can't match up against taller SG and such and since he's a big time scoring threat in the 4th quarter we should save him for that. Remenber John Havlicek's career? He was the best non starter player ever during the first 6-8 years I think in his career. I see Ben Gordon the same way.

[Andrew]

I don't. His numbers are noticebly better as a starter across the board, the Bulls are just as successful when he starts (actually one win better in the 2006 regular season) and bringing him on cold in the fourth quarter after playing him sparingly in the first half isn't a great plan. The Bulls aren't too bad playing comeback but it's not the way to win a lot of games night in, night out. They need a scoring punch throughout the game and that's what Gordon provides. Effective substitution patterns and dedication to conditioning on Gordon's part will allow him to stay fresh for the fourth.

[Fenix]

I still have some doubts about him. I started to like Hinrich/Gordon + Duhon backcourt a lot, but they are in need of a big defensive minded SG in the Quinton Ross mold (Eddie Basden?). If Gordon improved his ballhandling and especially distributing skills, he could play PG in stretches and that would allow Skiles more posibilites (Ross-Gordon, Ross-Hinrich, Ross-Duhon, Gordon-Hinrich, Hinrich-Duhon) without sacrifying anything on the defensive end of the court and would relieve Hinrich of guarding SGs, at least to some extent. And if Ronnie Brewer somehow falls into their lap, Gordon wouldn't even have to play PG at all.

Their frontcourt rotation isn't as terrible as it would seem. At SF you have Nocioni and Deng who are both more than capable of starting on a championship contender and can surely play PF if needed, Sweetney and Songaila are both excellent rotation players. All they need is two big men who can defend, block shots, rebound and at least one of them has to score in the paint. Trading for J. O'Neal is unecessary, IMO. Aldridge or Thomas would do just fine, Chandler is the one I'm worried about. Anyone that is available via trade or draft is not a banger and that is exactly whan Bulls need. I really want them to trade this guy and his bloated contract for someone who fits more in the Bulls' and Skiles' concept of play.

[Matthew]

Should the Bulls be looking into getting KG, even if it means giving up Gordon and the knicks pick? I would do it, becuase the bulls window is limited with lebron in the conference, and kg wil make them instant contenders not just in the east, but the league.

[Andrew]

If KG is indeed on the table this offseason and the Timberwolves are interested in dealing with the Bulls then they would be foolish not to at least consider it. But even though they'd be acquiring a star like KG they'd be giving up two, maybe three core players, most of their cap space and the number one pick, leaving a similar situation to the one KG is currently in.

[Matthew]

Jay Mariotti is suggesting Chandler, Gordon and the Knicks pick for Kg. If minnesota is willing to take that, garnett will have nocioni, hinrich, sweetney deng and duhorn alongside him in chicago.

[J@3]

I don't think the Wolves would be too interested in Gordon. They already have Rashad McCants who's virtually his less capable twin, but showed some signs that he could develop into a decent player. I think if they wanted anyone it'd be Hinrich but his trade value is at an all time high now. Tyson Chandler would have to be involved for contract reasons.

[Andrew]

Not too bad I guess, I don't think the Timberwolves would take it though. They're not in immediate danger of losing KG, so they are free to name their price.

[air gordon]

andrew: IMO that article was written by the worst bulls beat reporter in the city. NO ME GUSTA Marlen Garcia. she mentions:

The rap on many NBA standouts is that they're prima donnas. Skiles does not allow personal agendas to trump the team. Only an injured player is permitted to take a play off in practice.

"I believe strongly that we can't make mistakes in terms of the type of guys we bring in here, in terms of their character, in terms of their work ethic," Paxson said. "I was part of a group that 10 years ago brought Dennis Rodman in, but we had a team that had won. We had a team with proven veterans.

"We're not in a position to bring in questionable types for our system and our program. If people say that's conservative, that's the way it's going to be. There are a lot of talented guys who might not have gotten any further in the playoffs than we did. I'm going to try very hard not to make that mistake."

In other words, it's highly unlikely a trade will be made for Kevin Garnett, an All-Star who has missed the playoffs the last two seasons.

lol Kevin Garnett doesn't even fit that profile. if anything, Garnett is a Skiles/Paxson type of player. the rest of the article she just speculates and twists around Paxson's quotes

the only thing i'm sure about Gordon is that he probably would be coming off the bench for a contending team but playing in crunchtime at this point of his career. oh and beau_boy04: Gordon spent a lot of time guarding pg's this year

VanK: heh you mention the frontcourt situation isn't as terrible as it would seem but you also mention they need 2 big men. sounds like a bad situation to me... i agree w/you about Nocioni- he has shown he can guard and exploit PF's with his quickness. which leads me to my next point:

hypothetically speaking- i would all be for trading Gordon, NYk's pick, Chandler for Garnett.

the current Bulls team is somewhat in a similar situation to the Heat of 03-04: they just had a decent playoff run and had a lot of young, quality players on that team. there's another team similar to the Bulls as well in the West, the Memphis Grizzlies. They have more talent then the Bulls yet they haven't even won one single playoff game. I don't want to Bulls to be like that- keep the core together but still go nowhere with no sure fire superstar. I want the team to be like the 03-04 Heat: instead of letting the core grow together, Riley chose to swing for the fences and landed Shaq, which in turn transformed them into a championship contender.

now obviously there is no Wade on the Bulls and KG is no Shaq but I do belive, as Matthew mentioned, that would be a solid lineup/team which could probably contend in the EAST:
C- Garnett
PF-Nocioni
SF-Deng
SG-?
PG-Hinrich
bench: Duhon, Songalia (if resigned), Sweetney

the team would still have around $8mil in cap space plus their own 1st round pick to address other needs. that could possibly lead to the signing of Nazr Mohmammed and maybe a decent defensive player who can shoot (Greg Buckner is the only cheap FA SG i can think of right now)

of course this is all assuming Minny wants to trade KG and this is the deal they'd like

[beau_boy04]

I dont like the idea of giving Gordon, NY's pick and others for Garnett. I think that would be giving too much for one single player even if that player was KG. I would take it slow, train their core players and develop them as much as possible in the off-season and then make some noise in the draft by acquiring a good post player or whatever and go from there. I'd like another run with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni and company. I would say it's too soon to part them away.

[Andrew]

I guess it's just my Gordon Homerism kicking in, I like the idea of him in a Bulls uniform and don't like the idea of him being sent packing unless it's absolutely necessary. But in any case I'm not sure the Wolves would go for that deal or that they're all that interested in parting ways with KG and vice versa. I know, it's not impossible and just because both sides are saying they don't want to end the relationship often means the opposite but it just seems like wishful thinking to me.

[air gordon]

I dont like the idea of giving Gordon, NY's pick and others for Garnett. I think that would be giving too much for one single player even if that player was KG. I would take it slow, train their core players and develop them as much as possible in the off-season and then make some noise in the draft by acquiring a good post player or whatever and go from there. I'd like another run with Gordon, Hinrich, Deng, Nocioni and company. I would say it's too soon to part them away.

so who do think of the core will become the team's superstar? a team with a bunch of role players will not go anywhere

i don't like the 'detroit pistons' comparison because none of the current bulls are near the level of players that the pistons are. besides, detroit has 3 all stars on that team lol

[Andrew]

Do you think believe anyone on the roster right now could realistically ever become the star player they need?

[Laxation]

detroit has 3 all stars on that team lol

4...

And I wouldnt trade for KG - the Bulls are a good young team, by the time they are ready to be true contenders, KG will be too old.

[Fenix]

Bulls aren't that young. Hinrich and Nocioni are 25, Chandler is a veteran and it will be third year for Gordon and Deng. They are ready to start winning now, if only they get suitable parts.