The Knicks Thread....

I haven't been able to watch the games anymore, since before the Rose trade and those 3 15-20 loss games.

Welcome to the club, JW. Basically, Isiah assembled a bunch of athletes who don't know how to play ball. Then he hires Larry Brown to coach a squad that doesn't fit Brown's style of play - wonderful. I had to laugh when I heard Brown call Eddy Curry 'the franchise'. Please. Now you're higher on Curry than I am. IMO, you can't teach hustle or desire. You have to WANT to do it. I don't see that in Curry.

"Isiah, what's your plan?"

"Plan - we don't NEED no stinking plan!"


...if the Knicks' pick turns out to be Adam Morrison, I'm going hunting for Isiah.

illustrative pic?

state of the knicks

another ass whooping, ouch!

Steve Francis is being strongly sought by the desperate New York Knicks, who want to pair him in the backcourt with Stephon Marbury in a bid to save their season.

Two sources involved in the Francis trade discussions told ESPN.com on Tuesday that New York is actively pursuing Francis, who is being shopped full throttle by the Orlando Magic.

The Denver Nuggets remain in the hunt for Francis, but they are not the leading option as they were a few days ago. The Minnesota Timberwolves also were trying to stay in the mix, looking for a third team to take on players Orlando is not interested in.

New York was believed to be offering Penny Hardaway, Jamal Crawford and at least one other player, likely Trevor Ariza, David Lee or Nate Robinson, in a deal in which the Knicks would also take back center Kelvin Cato, whose $8.64 million salary comes off the cap at the end of the season.

Cato would have to be included along with Francis ($13.7 million) to provide a match for the salaries of Hardaway ($15.75 million), Crawford ($6.5 million) and the third player, be it Robinson ($1.2 million), Lee (860,000) and/or Ariza $640,000).

The trade, if it were to come to fruition, would provide Orlando salary cap relief and at least one young starter for a franchise looking to rebuild around Dwight Howard.

The Magic will have Grant Hill's $16.9 million salary off their cap in the summer of 2007, and freeing themselves of their obligations to Francis would leave them well below the salary cap two summers from now when a bumper crop of free agents hits the market.

Another financial factor influencing the Magic's decision-making is the impending transfer of ownership control from Amway magnate Rich DeVos to his children. DeVos' son-in-law, Bob Vander Weide, will represent the Magic as their owner. Orlando has been unsuccessful in securing public financing for a new arena and is losing money under the weight of a nearly $67 million payroll. Francis is owed $49.3 million over the next three seasons.

When Francis' name first surfaced in trade rumors, there was speculation that the Knicks would try to trade Stephon Marbury for him. But a league source said team president Isiah Thomas envisions a Marbury-Francis pairing that would evoke comparisons to the Thomas-Joe Dumars guard tandem the Pistons won with in the 1980s, or the Walt Frazier-Earl Monroe backcourt the Knicks had in 1973 the last time they won the championship.

"It could be great, or it could be a disaster," said one source, describing the Knicks as "really pushing" to acquire Francis as they trudge through a losing streak that ballooned to 10 games with their drubbing in Dallas on Monday night. With a record of 14-37, the Knicks are in danger of going into the All-Star break with the league's worst record. Only Charlotte (14-39) is worse.

The Knicks had been linked to Francis last week in a reported three-way trade also involving Denver in which Francis would have ended up with the Nuggets. That rumor produced a flood of subsequent reports involving Denver forward Kenyon Martin, including another offer involving Hardaway that would allow the Nuggets to lower their payroll -- though it wouldn't necessarily bring long-term cap relief.

New York also has had discussions with the Portland Trail Blazers involving Hardaway, whose contract is one of the few expiring maximum deals this season of the type that are annually dangled in February before teams seeking cap relief. Dallas forward Keith Van Horn's $15.7 million salary comes off the cap this summer, but Mavericks owner Mark Cuban has said his team has no interest in trading Van Horn to the Raptors for Antonio Davis, who also has an expiring contract and was dealt by the Knicks to Toronto for Jalen Rose in a deal that will allow the Raptors to move well below the cap this summer.

The Chicago Bulls have had no luck in their efforts to move Tim Thomas and his expiring contract of nearly $14 million. The Bulls are expected to offer Thomas a buyout if they can't trade him, and he is hoping to sign with a playoff team prior to March 1, the deadline for players to eligible for the postseason.

lol marbury + francis? wow, 2 undersized SG who plays the point.

Save their season? Who's Isiah trying to kid - the season's been over.

When will Dolan wake the f--- up and dump Isiah's ass?

Steve Francis is being strongly sought by the desperate New York Knicks, who want to pair him in the backcourt with Stephon Marbury in a bid to save their season.

Two sources involved in the Francis trade discussions told ESPN.com on Tuesday that New York is actively pursuing Francis, who is being shopped full throttle by the Orlando Magic.

The Denver Nuggets remain in the hunt for Francis, but they are not the leading option as they were a few days ago. The Minnesota Timberwolves also were trying to stay in the mix, looking for a third team to take on players Orlando is not interested in.

New York was believed to be offering Penny Hardaway, Jamal Crawford and at least one other player, likely Trevor Ariza, David Lee or Nate Robinson, in a deal in which the Knicks would also take back center Kelvin Cato, whose $8.64 million salary comes off the cap at the end of the season.

Cato would have to be included along with Francis ($13.7 million) to provide a match for the salaries of Hardaway ($15.75 million), Crawford ($6.5 million) and the third player, be it Robinson ($1.2 million), Lee (860,000) and/or Ariza $640,000).

The trade, if it were to come to fruition, would provide Orlando salary cap relief and at least one young starter for a franchise looking to rebuild around Dwight Howard.

The Magic will have Grant Hill's $16.9 million salary off their cap in the summer of 2007, and freeing themselves of their obligations to Francis would leave them well below the salary cap two summers from now when a bumper crop of free agents hits the market.

Another financial factor influencing the Magic's decision-making is the impending transfer of ownership control from Amway magnate Rich DeVos to his children. DeVos' son-in-law, Bob Vander Weide, will represent the Magic as their owner. Orlando has been unsuccessful in securing public financing for a new arena and is losing money under the weight of a nearly $67 million payroll. Francis is owed $49.3 million over the next three seasons.

When Francis' name first surfaced in trade rumors, there was speculation that the Knicks would try to trade Stephon Marbury for him. But a league source said team president Isiah Thomas envisions a Marbury-Francis pairing that would evoke comparisons to the Thomas-Joe Dumars guard tandem the Pistons won with in the 1980s, or the Walt Frazier-Earl Monroe backcourt the Knicks had in 1973 the last time they won the championship.

"It could be great, or it could be a disaster," said one source, describing the Knicks as "really pushing" to acquire Francis as they trudge through a losing streak that ballooned to 10 games with their drubbing in Dallas on Monday night. With a record of 14-37, the Knicks are in danger of going into the All-Star break with the league's worst record. Only Charlotte (14-39) is worse.

The Knicks had been linked to Francis last week in a reported three-way trade also involving Denver in which Francis would have ended up with the Nuggets. That rumor produced a flood of subsequent reports involving Denver forward Kenyon Martin, including another offer involving Hardaway that would allow the Nuggets to lower their payroll -- though it wouldn't necessarily bring long-term cap relief.

New York also has had discussions with the Portland Trail Blazers involving Hardaway, whose contract is one of the few expiring maximum deals this season of the type that are annually dangled in February before teams seeking cap relief. Dallas forward Keith Van Horn's $15.7 million salary comes off the cap this summer, but Mavericks owner Mark Cuban has said his team has no interest in trading Van Horn to the Raptors for Antonio Davis, who also has an expiring contract and was dealt by the Knicks to Toronto for Jalen Rose in a deal that will allow the Raptors to move well below the cap this summer.

The Chicago Bulls have had no luck in their efforts to move Tim Thomas and his expiring contract of nearly $14 million. The Bulls are expected to offer Thomas a buyout if they can't trade him, and he is hoping to sign with a playoff team prior to March 1, the deadline for players to eligible for the postseason.

lol marbury + francis? wow, 2 undersized SG who plays the point.

I rather have Francis than Crawford.

Bring him on!

But without giving up Lee.

I'd be happy with Penny, Crawford and Ariza leaving for him and Cato.

But you're trading expiring contracts for more salary. When will this madness stop?

True, but Francis' contract(2009) does expire before Crawford's(2011).

And Cato's expires after this season.

So you'd give up 2 expiring contracts(if it's Ariza included) and a long one(Crawford's; 5 more years) for an expiring contract and shorter one(Francis'; 3 more years).

So if the Knicks don't resign any of these players or do any more deals after this, our squad'd be clean come 2010. It'd buy us at least another year.

Orlando is fucking dumb if they trade Francis for Crawford and Ariza. I'd trade his SG ass for expiring contracts and guys like Lee and Ariza who would fit nicely in Orlando's rebuilding plan. I WANT DARKO IN ORLANDO, GODDAMNIT.

Orlando is fucking dumb if they trade Francis for Crawford and Ariza. I'd trade his SG ass for expiring contracts and guys like Lee and Ariza who would fit nicely in Orlando's rebuilding plan. I WANT DARKO IN ORLANDO, GODDAMNIT.

Crawford, Ariza and Penny.

That's should be the question each and every of the NBA's GMs should answer before getting their GM licenses. If their answer is positive, they should be shot instantly. Isiah would be shot twice.

So if the Knicks don't resign any of these players or do any more deals after this, our squad'd be clean come 2010......

Not if Isiah's still the GM.

Francis & Marbury would be an intriguing backcourt. I doubt that this particular deal will go through (one that involves Cato anyways).

It'd be in Orlando's best interest to get Darko, and build around Howard. Getting Carlos Arroyo would assure Orlando that Howard would get the ball, but getting Crawford for Francis makes no sense....he's like Francis except not quite the talent and longer contract. Hell, Orlando already have Dooling off the bench to put up bad shots.

As for NY, LB is just asking for troubles with Francis & Marbs.

Yup, Thomas is officially going locos. If he actually pulls this trade off, he should get banned for life.

i like the trade idea, but i don't know if larry brown can handle steve francis AND marbury? he'd just have to change his coaching philosphy with all this madness he has been put in

lol just saw this on ESPN forum.. someone just making up stuff
Min get- hardaway Frye and 1(SA)
knicks get- KG

Orlando get- Crawford Taylor ariza
knicks get- Francis outlaw

Imagine this line up:

Marbury/nate
Francis/richardson
Rose/lee/woods
KG/malik
Curry/james/butler

lol that'd be a very interesting line up

Why would Minny trade KG for Hardaway and Frye, of all the players in the league.

The KG rumour is on realgm too.

Christopher Reina/RealGM - A source close to the participants in the talks told Christopher Reina late Tuesday night that New York and Minnesota have had serious discussions about a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to the Knicks in exchange for Penny Hardaway and Channing Frye. Isiah Thomas, who has called Frye untouchable all season, is willing to give up the sought after rookie to land the future Hall of Famer.

Garnett has made it clear to the front office that should he be dealt, he wants to go to New York and that wish will be fulfilled if the Timberwolves decide to end the KG era and begin to rebuild. They reportedly respect Garnett and all that he has done for both the franchise and the area would try to trade him to his preferred team.

The question of if the Wolves want to move on without Garnett will be the deciding factor in whether a trade gets completed before Thursday.

This deal delayed last week's Knicks discussions with the Magic regarding Steve Francis and it is why it will be Jamal Crawford and Maurice Taylor going to Orlando for their first time, instead of Hardaway’s second. That deal is all but complete, but Orlando is waiting to see if Denver returns to the table before the deadline.

If the Wolves choose to retain Garnett, the Knicks will turn to Denver and Kenyon Martin, a player that Larry Brown covets.

Whatever happens it's hella interesting

Garnett? Aside from Frye, Knicks have nothing of equal value for KG. Let's get real here.


Kenyon Martin's perfect for NY - injury-prone, plays no defense and has a big contract. Sign him, Isiah!

Knicks fans may be losing faith in Isiah Thomas, but he still has the support of the person whose opinion matters most - at least to his job security - Garden chairman James Dolan.

"As Mr. Dolan keeps reminding us, it's his money and he's comfortable with what we're doing and how we're proceeding and how we're trying to put our team together," Thomas said yesterday. "We do have assets, our talent level is better and we have a great coach. I'm pretty positive about our future, extremely positive about our future."

A day after acquiring guard Steve Francis from Orlando, Thomas defended his record as Knicks' president over the past 26 months and hinted that he has put the franchise in position to acquire an impact player this summer.

"When I came here, the first thing that was told to me was that we had players nobody wanted, couldn't trade any of the contracts," Thomas said. "As we stand here today. . . . we have draft picks, we have players people want and the contracts that we have in place are pretty reasonable contracts for the talent level we have."

Thomas believes that every player on the roster has value with the exception of "Jerome James (five years, $30 million), because he's been injured so much."

Thomas' plan, according to several league sources, is to trade players and draft picks to make a run at Minnesota's Kevin Garnett, whose contract includes a 15% trade kicker and opt-out clause after the 2007-08 season. A more realistic target could be Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal, while the most plausible scenario is Atlanta's Al Harrington, who will be a free agent this summer and would have to be acquired in a sign-and-trade.

from NY Daily News.
Isiah sure loves to play NBA Live a lot lol.. its funny all these KG rumors. and the term "draft picks"
im guessing that means the knicks will be trading there 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 first round draft picks for KG

Thomas believes that every player on the roster has value with the exception of "Jerome James (five years, $30 million), because he's been injured so much."

WHat he really means to say is that he fucking sucks and is the worst free agent signing he's made in his life.

Well, that Marbury/Fracis thing sure is looking good.

On the earlier edition of SportsCenter (well, the one before NBA Shootaround anyway) today the Shootaround crew were discussing the Knicks, the Francis trade and Larry Brown. Concensus was that Brown is doing a poor job, with assertions such as he hasn't come into the season with a game plan, he's not reaching his players (and that it's his fault) and lacking stability going with more than 30 different starting lineups so far.

Would anyone say those are valid or fair points of view? How much of the blame can you legitimately heap on the coach's shoulders in a situation such as the one the Knicks are in?

I read something a while ago where Brown was ejected and one of the Knick guys says something along the lines of "now we can play ball". It sounds like the players are just flat out rejecting whatever it is he's trying to do. They really have no idea, unless they all think they're actually a good team or something.