Chicago Bulls Thread

[Andrew]

Gooden might be able to help there, he's not the best option but he's probably the best option that's actually available. Giving up Duhon and relying on Pargo to be the second string point guard is still a concern though.

[Fenix]

I wouldn't give up Duhon, he's simply too good for that price to give up, but think about it - what is Gordon's future? As good as the backcourt of Hinrich and Gordon is, it can't work long term. The price of Kirk guarding taller, stronger SG's will come back and haunt him sooner or later. My point is that - IMHO - Gordon can be trully effective only as a 6th man or a combo guard in a Arenas-Hughes-like backcourt where he shares the ballhandling duties with the primary SG. He has to be converted to the PG position or at least he has to develop playmaking skills and court vision. And then the Bulls should make a decision of either trading him to fill other needs or trading Hinrich for a tall SG with good ballhandling/playmaking skills (a la Corey Brewer). I could be wrong and the backcourt of Hinrich (6'4 with shoes) and Gordon (6'2 with shoes, but he is very long) is going to last for the next decade or so, but I don't think so.

As far as the whole Gooden situation goes - he probably has all the tools to be a star, but he has role player mentality and that is what he will be in this League for the rest of his career. Considering his resume, he probably won't be overpaid when the off-season comes, but do you really need another role player up front, when you already have Deng, Nocioni, Chandler and Sweetney? Sure, he fills a current need, but would the players you would give up for him hurt you long term? I there's harder to find a decent PG which Duhon certainly is, than it is a player like Gooden. This team needs superstars not more role players.

[Andrew]

My point is that - IMHO - Gordon can be trully effective only as a 6th man or a combo guard in a Arenas-Hughes-like backcourt where he shares the ballhandling duties with the primary SG. He has to be converted to the PG position or at least he has to develop playmaking skills and court vision. And then the Bulls should make a decision of either trading him to fill other needs or trading Hinrich for a tall SG with good ballhandling/playmaking skills (a la Corey Brewer). I could be wrong and the backcourt of Hinrich (6'4 with shoes) and Gordon (6'2 with shoes, but he is very long) is going to last for the next decade or so, but I don't think so.

Considering Gordon's numbers as a starter compared to when he was coming off the bench I'd say he's more effective as a starter. You have a point though. The smaller backcourt does have its disadvantages and perhaps Gordon will eventually have to shift to point guard. The alternative of course is to have a big point guard in a similar situation to AI/Snow a few years back.

As far as the whole Gooden situation goes - he probably has all the tools to be a star, but he has role player mentality and that is what he will be in this League for the rest of his career. Considering his resume, he probably won't be overpaid when the off-season comes, but do you really need another role player up front, when you already have Deng, Nocioni, Chandler and Sweetney? Sure, he fills a current need, but would the players you would give up for him hurt you long term? I there's harder to find a decent PG which Duhon certainly is, than it is a player like Gooden. This team needs superstars not more role players.

Role player mentality? I guess that's why he's leading the team in scoring and has been having these 30 point games. As far as needing role players up front, I'm guessing Sweetney might be included in any deal for Gooden so he'd be replaced with a superior player there. If you want to deal for a superstar, you're gutting the talent pool and you're pretty much in the same situation.

[MetalHead]

hehe what are you talking about? they are a perimeter oriented team offensively and defensively they play mostly man to man and depend a lot on quick rotations due from all the help side they provide

They have three, maybe four players that shoot the perimeter jumper, and shoot it consistently, but that still doesn't prove much. Teams that rely heavily on the 3 don't win. Period. Some nights, the shot just doesn't go down, and then where do you turn? They can't bang it inside, as Chandler is a poor inside shooter, and rarely delivers on a night-to-night pace. The Bulls need an identity, and one that isn't just shooting rampant threes.

[maes]

They're a lot like the poor Sonics. Excellent at the perimeter, but it's crushing to think how good both teams would be with even an inkling of an inside presence.

It's hard to believe there's NOTHING out there that the Bulls can get in terms of a big man with all the assets & draft picks they have.

[Andrew]

That's why I'm intrigued by a Gooden deal since Nick mentioned it, so long as the price is right. Depends what the "things" involved in the deal are.

[Andrew]

Finally! The latest streak is broken. Since I'm dangerously close to turning into a Gordon Homer, I might as well mention his line: 30 points (keeping his February average at 30), 6 rebounds, 3 assists. He's averaging just under 17 for the season, 20 per game as a starter. That said, the Bulls were lucky in this one. 36 fourth quarter points and a comfortable lead blown early in the period. Credit to Denver where credit is due of course, but it didn't seem like the Bulls were doing much to stop the bleeding.

EDIT: Looks like it was 6 rebounds afterall. CBS Sportsline's live scores had it wrong.

[magius]

wow, who lit the fire under chandler's ass? i thought it was an anamoly, but he has been playing fairly well and consistently for awhile now. the past couple of games with gordon having monster games, these bulls are starting to remind of the finals sixers. i too would trade hinrich before i trade gordon, and i wouldnt even give it a thought, i almost prefer duhon to hinrich. its too bad curry left, as much heart as sweetney has, curry was the post presence that made you feel that team was heading in the right direction. dont get me wrong they still are, but now i feel they need a trade, i dont for who, but it feels like they're missing an even bigger piece than they were before.

i say trade sweetney and hinrich for something. they really need a bulky big.

[air gordon]

I wouldn't give up Duhon, he's simply too good for that price to give up,

Yeh i somewhat agree. Soley taking into account PG skills- Duhon is just as good as Hinrich. But you have to consider trading him if you can land a player that can score in the post

but think about it - what is Gordon's future? As good as the backcourt of Hinrich and Gordon is, it can't work long term. The price of Kirk guarding taller, stronger SG's will come back and haunt him sooner or later.

in the current situation, Kirk does get worn down. But finally Gordon is starting which has taken a big burden off of Hinrich. He no longer has to worry about being the primary scorer and get's better looks at the basket due to the attention Gordon gets. Smaller backcourts can work if you have good defensive players in your frontcourt.

My point is that - IMHO - Gordon can be trully effective only as a 6th man or a combo guard in a Arenas-Hughes-like backcourt where he shares the ballhandling duties with the primary SG. He has to be converted to the PG position or at least he has to develop playmaking skills and court vision. And then the Bulls should make a decision of either trading him to fill other needs or trading Hinrich for a tall SG with good ballhandling/playmaking skills (a la Corey Brewer). I could be wrong and the backcourt of Hinrich (6'4 with shoes) and Gordon (6'2 with shoes, but he is very long) is going to last for the next decade or so, but I don't think so.

i think it's premature to put a ceiling on a player who's only in his 2nd year. As Andrew mentioned- since becoming a starter, he's going through the best stretch of his career

As far as the whole Gooden situation goes - he probably has all the tools to be a star, but he has role player mentality and that is what he will be in this League for the rest of his career. Considering his resume, he probably won't be overpaid when the off-season comes,

you better believe he'll be overpaid in the offseason unless he latches on to a contender and signs for the MLE.

but do you really need another role player up front, when you already have Deng, Nocioni, Chandler and Sweetney? Sure, he fills a current need, but would the players you would give up for him hurt you long term? I there's harder to find a decent PG which Duhon certainly is, than it is a player like Gooden.

Yes- the team could use Gooden since he provides what those aforementioned players don't- consistent, low post scoring.

This team needs superstars not more role players.

It's hard to believe there's NOTHING out there that the Bulls can get in terms of a big man with all the assets & draft picks they have.

I think at this point Paxson is acquiring assets without trying to destroy the cap room he has. It's very difficult to obtain a superstar via trade or signing. And if you do- he brings some kind of baggage with him, is past his prime, or has some kind injury history. Now maybe the Bulls could get very lucky and land Pierce but that's a pipe dream right now

IMO the only way to get a superstar is via draft (and a lot of luck hehe). If you take a look at the current stars/up and coming studs- a lot of them were acquired via draft.


Ahh the streak is over- was pissing in my pants thinking they'd blow the lead again. Wouldn't say there were lucky in this one. They made the plays when they had to, unlike last night

[Andrew]

Gotta love Scott Skiles. Gordon has been averaging 30 per game in February but struggles early so he only gets to play 19 minutes, while Duhon gets to play 34 minutes even though he's been struggling as of late, shoots 3/10 including 1/6 from downtown.

[kinokong]

lol... i love those hardcore defensive coaches such as skiles and sam mitchell

[MetalHead]

Well, today's news. Bulls lose big in Sacramento. Every Bull scores, but no one above 14 points. Chandler blames fatigue from last night's Denver game. Your thoughts?

[Fenix]

Role player mentality? I guess that's why he's leading the team in scoring and has been having these 30 point games.

What? Gooden? 30 point games? When???

[maes]

I actually think there are less superstars with the team who drafted them than otherwise, certainly not to the point where the draft is the only means of getting a star player.

Looking at the current NBA lineup of stars, you have to discount guys like LeBron & Melo because their still in their rookie contracts which they have no control over, in terms of who they sign with or the salary. I think LeBron will stay with Cleveland, but i also thought Shaq would stay with Orlando and Webber would stay with Golden State and Kidd would stay with Dallas etc..

[air gordon]

Perhaps I should have said in the last few years the best way rebuilding teams got their stud was via draft.

Houston- Yao Ming
Phoenix- Amare
Milwaukee- Redd
Orlando- D Howard
I'll skip the 2003 draft since there were a lot studs there


With the current CBA- players can get more years/salary if they resign with respective team. I had already mentioned about trading for stars....

VanK- I think Andrew is referring to Gordon, not Gooden but I'll let Andrew speak for himself

[Andrew]

Role player mentality? I guess that's why he's leading the team in scoring and has been having these 30 point games.

What? Gooden? 30 point games? When???

Nick's right. I was under the impression you were referring to Ben Gordon having a role player mentality. Gordon's the one I was referring to as having been averaging 30 ppg for the month of February up until the Sacramento game.

[air gordon]

Good finish to a crappy road trip.

I thought the defense was good on Brand last nite. He missed a lot of shots when he had one on one situations. Most of his scores came off of penetration by the guards

Kudos to Hinrich- he realized his shot was broke so he drove it to the basket.

And for once, Pargo is off the shit list

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

I've been reading some rumors about a possible Ben Gordon for Ray Allen trade...

I think this is just what the Bulls need and if teh Sonics accept they should go for it...

Ofcourse, a way has to be devised for salary matching, so Tim Thomas could be included. But no loss there for Chicago.

[air gordon]

i'd prefer Pierce over Allen

He's younger, isn't strictly a perimeter player, get to the FTs more, better passer/defender/rebouder/clutch player

[beau_boy04]

and this guy suggested Gordon to be traded for either Ray Allen who is in his 30's or Paul Pierce
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com ... &cset=true

We know Gordon will become a very special player when all is said and done so why trade the 6th Player of the last year? coz he's short to play the SG position or not defensive minded enough to handle the PG ? well think of it how tall is Allen Iverson? look at him! and Gordon is actually taller than AI... and now im not inquiring Gordon will be as good as AI is but you never know. I will not trade Gordon as of right now unless you get a sure sure thing for many years to come and I don't think neither Ray Allen or P Pierce are by any way.

[Andrew]

Another lead blown in the last couple of minutes leading to the overtime loss, but a much better performance than the last Sacramento game. Gordon bounces back with another 30 point performance, 7 assists this time as well.

[air gordon]

the need for another competent big man cannot be overstated

Once Chandler fouled out, Sacramento killed the Bulls on the boards

again- Gordon is inbouding the ball on the final play of regulation

[Andrew]

again- Gordon is inbouding the ball on the final play of regulation

Of course. It would be madness to let the guy who's shooting well, scoring a lot recently and responsible for that OT game winner against the Knicks to attempt the final shot.

[maes]

Hmm i would think that if Paxson wanted Ray Allen he would have made a bid over the summer when Ray was a unrestricted free agent and Gordon's stock was sky high. Of all the teams courting Shuttlesworth, Chicago was not one of them.

Of course. It would be madness to let the guy who's shooting well, scoring a lot recently and responsible for that OT game winner against the Knicks to attempt the final shot.

I'd rather have a magic 8 ball running the bulls than Skiles. Aren't we paying this guy more than Gordon or Hinrich?

[Bullsfan239712]

wow......that kings game........i dont know why.......i had some feeling they would win and bet alot of money on that game..

and to this

I've been reading some rumors about a possible Ben Gordon for Ray Allen trade...

I think this is just what the Bulls need and if teh Sonics accept they should go for it...

Ofcourse, a way has to be devised for salary matching, so Tim Thomas could be included. But no loss there for Chicago.

I totally disagree....ben gordon has a full career infront of him for example, if the hornets were to give kobe a chance.....well the hornets would be up there instead of the crap their in now. Also look at the whole elton brand\tyson trade. Lets face it the bulls have made many stupid deccessions in their history and this would be just another bad one in my opinion