BIBLICAL debates 2005

Other video games, TV shows, movies, general chit-chat...this is an all-purpose off-topic board where you can talk about anything that doesn't have its own dedicated section.

Postby bullsfan009 on Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:51 pm

Jackal wrote:Kept in holding = a cell...the cops, the popo...clear now?
yeah, I got you now...

Jackal wrote:How do I feel when I do good? Just as when I do bad? It's all for kicks. People sin against me? Then I feel rage. They did wrong against my sister. I felt rage. Then I went & vented that rage on them. You should ask them how they feel now.

Hehe, they should try to sin against anyone's sister or female relative again...

I'm sorry that something happened to your sister. I can't relate to that, so I'm not sure what to say. What about this though- knowing how it feels to have your sister wronged, would you ever wrong someone else's sister? Knowing that she had a brother like you who would be hurt & enraged by it?


Nietzschean Pride wrote:But my point was that a man can reach happiness solely based on the feeling that he is doing his best and then some to improve himself everyday.
IMO, you have to add "a sense of purpose" to this. FOR WHAT are you doing your best & improving yourself? Some dream, some goal, some purpose. Tied to a sense of purpose are going to be the hopes, dreams, goals, or whatever you want to call it.
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Postby cyanide on Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:23 am

bullsfan009 wrote:
Nietzschean Pride wrote:But my point was that a man can reach happiness solely based on the feeling that he is doing his best and then some to improve himself everyday.

IMO, you have to add "a sense of purpose" to this. FOR WHAT are you doing your best & improving yourself? Some dream, some goal, some purpose. Tied to a sense of purpose are going to be the hopes, dreams, goals, or whatever you want to call it.


I think what he means is, that rather than basing one life's to a goal where one hopes to attain it, it's feasible to better oneself to that goal, so the end result is even if you don't reach that goal, you're still a better/improved person and can use that experience to explore other avenues rather than put oneself down for shattered dreams.
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Postby bullsfan009 on Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:13 am

OK, I see what he's saying now, thanks Cyanide. But persuit of an ultimate goal or dream will require bettering yourself to it no matter the end result, and no matter how you react to it if you should be unsuccessful.

I just think that "purpose" is getting lost in all of this. IMO, it's crucial to happiness.
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Postby Jona on Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:38 am

The "purpose being crucial to happiness" is a great thought Bullsfan.

Basically, looking for the "meaning" in your life, looking at it as the little motor that keeps you running even in the worst circumstances, is a life philosophy adopted by many.

A feasable goal is a very powerful motivator for a healthy mind. (Y)
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Postby Null17 on Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:42 am

actually according to all my philosophy teachers, our purpose is to find happiness or something to that manner. or i think it goes both ways
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:55 am

I think what he means is, that rather than basing one life's to a goal where one hopes to attain it, it's feasible to better oneself to that goal, so the end result is even if you don't reach that goal, you're still a better/improved person and can use that experience to explore other avenues rather than put oneself down for shattered dreams.



Bingo! Right on the money, Cy. (Y)

But persuit of an ultimate goal or dream will require bettering yourself to it no matter the end result, and no matter how you react to it if you should be unsuccessful.

I just think that "purpose" is getting lost in all of this. IMO, it's crucial to happiness.



Purpose=Goal. Hope has nothing to do with it... or at least, the 'process of feeling hopeful' has nothing beneficial to do with your purpose.


Basically, looking for the "meaning" in your life, looking at it as the little motor that keeps you running even in the worst circumstances, is a life philosophy adopted by many.



And discarted at a latter stage by a huge percentage of them. Only when one realises that absolute understanding, total awareness, complete truth, and utter perfection are in fact unattainable, then he can pursue them without the pressure of success looming over his/her head like the sword of Damocles... "The road to perfection is infinite in length, but has a lot of small happy spots along the side. The longer you have walked on that road, the more different happy spots you get to visit." - Another dead guy -

In a few words: Pursue perfection, even though you will never fully achive it. But it is only when you aim for 100% , that you can reach 97%. Aiming for 97% will land you lower.
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Postby cyanide on Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:59 am

Nietzschean Pride wrote:In a few words: Pursue perfection, even though you will never fully achive it. But it is only when you aim for 100% , that you can reach 97%. Aiming for 97% will land you lower.


Definitely the best guideline to doing well in school, which I have followed in the last several years, but you finally put it into words for me.
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:14 am

Ofcourse, for multiple goal-pursuing one should take under consideration the bidimensional 'performance curve'.

On the x-axis, you have time dedicated to the task (0 to infinite). On the y-axis, you have the percentage of completion of the goal. (0 to 1. 1=100%, 0.35=35% etc...).

This curve is of the y=1-e\/(-x) variety... While x increases, y increases as well... but when x=infinite then lim[y(x)]=1.

Enough with the math already. What this means is that as you progress in your goal, it is getting harder and harder to progress to the next level, exponentially harder to be specific. If it takes you 3 weeks to get from 60% to 70%, then it would take you more than 5 weeks to get from 70 to 80, 9-10 weeks to get to 90, 20 weeks to get to 95, 35 weeks to get to 97, 45 weeks to get to 98, and absolutely INFINITE amount of weeks to reach 100%.

hence, the unattainability of absolute perfection is mathematicaly proven. :lol:

Moral: When you dabble with multiple goals, first decide hoe far you wish to go with each one and how much work you are going to put in, totally and divided. If you do not, you'll have a haze of info and feedback over your head that will at the very least make you extremely unproductive, if not cause total failure. :!:
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Postby Jona on Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:21 am

Null17 wrote:actually according to all my philosophy teachers, our purpose is to find happiness or something to that manner. or i think it goes both ways


Eudaimonism!
Look it up :P
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:28 am

Eudaimonism!


Ahhh... the ever present Greek words... 8-) (Y)
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Postby COOLmac© on Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:05 pm

hopes= feasible goals
wish= unattainable goals

WORD said 8-)
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:34 pm

hopes= feasible goals
wish= unattainable goals


When you wish for something, you hope for it to come true. MS Word.
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Postby COOLmac© on Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:57 pm

nah you "WISH" it to come true! WORDpad
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Postby Jona on Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:29 am

DWeaver wrote:MS Word.


COOLmac wrote:WORDpad


I'm having a hard time deciding which one was worst! :lol:
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Postby Null17 on Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:34 am

Jona wrote:
Null17 wrote:actually according to all my philosophy teachers, our purpose is to find happiness or something to that manner. or i think it goes both ways


Eudaimonism!
Look it up :P


searched for the meaning. not sure what kind of happiness it means there but what my teachers were saying was something in the light of deeper happiness not earthly pleasure. we're mostly taking up teachings of socrates, plato and aristotle as well as augustine and aquinas.
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Postby Jona on Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:53 am

Aristotle was mostly in favor of eudaimonism, you could reach happiness through your own self, seeking goodness.

The earlier Epicureans thought of hedonism as an ultimate goal, but not for the "earthly pleasures" (sex, drugs and rock n' roll), but for "higher pleasures" like contemplating nature and simple meditation.
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Postby COOLmac© on Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:37 am

i am intrigue.
i gotta try one of these
Eudaimonism!


and Jona. WORDpad is far better than MSWORD :wink:
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Postby COOLmac© on Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:12 pm

hey good thing i have it here in my archives. its a hefty read but its well worth it i guess
the subject of salvation can be divided into 3 things i guess hehe

the church
people outside the church
people against the church


LET US START WITH PEOPLE WITHIN THE CHURCH


The Kingdom of God on Earth, and the Means by which a Person can Enter
into It




hERE ON EARTH, the Church is called as the house of God and is being introduced as God’s kingdom (I Tim. 3:15). Since the Church is a kingdom, it is necessary that a man enters it and be a part of it, according to the Bible. In St. Paul’s first epistle to the Corinthians in chapter 1, verses 9 and 2, it says--

“God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.”

And then in verse 2:


“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:”

In these verses, God wants and commands the people to enter His kingdom. However, the hypocrites, scribes and Pharisees did not only refuse to enter in His kingdom; they also prevented others from entering it. In Matthew 23:13, this is what is written--

“But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.”

Do you know that there are means by which a man could enter the kingdom of God? We can find it in John 3:3-5. These verses are fondly used by the members of the so-called “Born Again” Christian groups, who claim that church and religion are no longer needed. In these verses, we it reads--

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born again when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

It is very important for a person to enter the kingdom of God. But before one can enter this kingdom, a person must be born again. Apparently, these so-called “Born Again” groups derived its name from these verses. We deemed this as a very obvious misunderstanding of the context of the Bible. Being “born again” is not a name but a condition and a state of being that must be attained before a person can enter the kingdom of God.

To attain salvation, a person should first enter the kingdom of God. It is also for this reason why no person could claim that the Church is no longer needed because this would, in effect mean that the kingdom of God is no longer needed! But, how will it be possible for a person to be born again? He must be born of water and of the spirit! On the other hand, what does being “born of water and of the Spirit” mean? In Titus 3:5, this is what is written--

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.”

In other words, being “born again” refers to the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.”

Now, let us find out how the Bible interprets the “washing of regeneration,” which in turn, corresponds to being “born again.” In Acts 22:16, it said:

“And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

According to the Bible, the “washing” refers to “baptism.” Therefore, being “born again” commences with being born of water and of the spirit. And biblically speaking, it refers to baptism. Man must be immersed in water; and having imbibed the words and teachings of God, he will be cleansed from his sins.

Today, those who claim that they are “born again,” do not even perform baptism. They do not baptize their members. These deceivers are all in a hurry to collect tithes from their members. For them, all you have to do is raise your hand. Or, sometimes, you may just need a contact point where you can lay your hands on a radio or television set. You will be asked to accept Christ, and presto, you are already "born again." That is a blatant deception of many shameless preachers in our time.

And why are we saying that these preachers are bold and shameless? It is because the Bible itself confirms that, there are, indeed, shameless people. Ecclesiastes 8:1 says--

“Who is as the wise man? And who knoweth the interpretation of a thing? A man’s wisdom maketh his face to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.”

If a person knows the art of acting, the Bible said: “the boldness of his face shall be changed.” Undeniably, there are preachers who are really bold and shameless, and they propagate teachings that do not conform to what the Bible teaches.

Being “born again” is not attained by simply raising one’s hands. To be born again, you have to undergo a process that is prescribed by the Bible—that you must be born of water and of Spirit through baptism. The agent used in baptism for the cleansing of sins, is WATER, coupled with the power of God, and the SPIRIT which refers to the word of God.

To prove that these things are the ones being referred to, let us find out what Ephesians 5:26-27 says--

“That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Water plus the Word! Those who misinterpreted these verses said that, water is also the word. That is wrong! The water refers to the literal water, accompanied by the Word—water and Spirit, inasmuch as the Word is the Spirit! And we will be able to prove this in John 6:63, which says--

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”

That is why, what St. Paul said was right, “cleanse it with the washing of water by the word.” Therefore, being born again is a state, or condition, in life. It applies to people who have received baptism. “Born again” is not a name! The correct manner of addressing this person is by calling him a CHRISTIAN. A Christian is a person who has undergone the process that Christ, Himself, taught. And that is being born again of water and of spirit. This is the same reason why, joining together the words “born again” and “Christian” is a gross ignorance of the Bible. Why? If a person is considered a Christian, it is understood that he had been born again. And when we say that a person is born again, it is understood that he is a Christian.

Now, why are we discussing this matter? Because there is an intention why one should be born again, or go thru baptism. It is done so that one can enter the kingdom of heaven. John 3:5 says--

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

What is the kingdom of God that is entered by those who had been born of water and of spirit? Earlier, we mentioned that the kingdom of God on earth is the Church. And to prove that there is really a kingdom of God right here on earth, let us read Matthew 6:9-10, which reads:

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”

Actually, this is a very popular prayer and song among our fellows. According to the prayer that was taught by our Lord Jesus Christ: “Thy kingdom come;” and when His kingdom comes, “Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”

Our Lord commanded the Apostles to pray in that manner. But the question now is: has this prayer been realized? Had the kingdom of God come? You see, until now, many people still recite this prayer as if the kingdom of God has not yet come. Let us find out from the Bible if God already answered this prayer. This is what Matthew 6:33 says--

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”

In other words, the kingdom of God is already here on earth because God is commanding us to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness. God will never command us to seek for these if we are not going to find any, here on earth. In the first place, God made a promise to those who will search for these. Matthew 7:7-8 says--

“Ask, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.”

Therefore, when God said, “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness,” He, at the same time, gave a guarantee that it will be found by whoever seeks for it. But where can it be found? The assurance that the Bible gave is that, it can be found here on earth. This is the reason why we can be sure that there is a kingdom here on earth. Now, let us find out which is being referred to as the kingdom of God, which should be entered? Let us read what Colossians 3:15 says--

“And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.”

The body that Christ heads is the Church. Ephesians 1:21-22 gives us the confirmation--

“For above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come; And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church.”

Where is Christ ruling over? It is in the CHURCH, and not in what they call as “ministries,” or “international crusade!” The Church is the kingdom of God here on earth, and it is where people are enjoined to get in. That is why it is a big lie to claim that it is no longer important because the Church which was built in the first century is the realization of the prayer that Jesus Christ taught the Apostles. What is saddening is that, they have replaced that church with what they call “fellowships,” “ministries,” and “crusades.” They do not want to join the Church, and they also hinder others who want to get inside. The proof that the Church has an inner part is written in Matthew 25:30, which says:

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

It is outside the Church that the unprofitable servants are thrown. But, who are these unprofitable servants? I Corinthians 5:12-13 says:

“For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge that that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.”

The unprofitable slaves refer to the wicked persons, and their destination is the darkness outside the Church. Here, we have proven that there is an outer and an inner portion of the church. If we want to be saved, we have to get inside the Church, because the Church is the kingdom wherein God reigns. And for us to get inside the Church, we have to be baptized, or be born of water and spirit.



i'll continue with the gentiles and the unbelieving ones next time. okay?
for now the church. :cool:
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Postby COOLmac© on Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:02 pm

oh so sorry for that long reply man. now i have read recently this verse and it reminds me of the very basic thing that can save you during the A.D. time


Question:

What does a man need to do in order to attain salvation?

Answer:

Salvation depends on your obedience of the Gospel. Even if you are already a member of the true church, but are not obedient to the Gospel, you still won't be saved just like what is written in I Corinthians 15:1-2; and it states—

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.


so the gospel of Jesus Christ is the answer. it has everything. even how long your hair to the tip of your toes and washing of your feet. it wont miss it will answer all your questions. its life's instruction manual.

it includes how to repsect your parents, honor your behalfs loving your brothers and sisters. what more will save you than the gospel of Jesus my friend. i hope that summarized it all up :wink:
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Postby J@3 on Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:05 pm

What the hell is all of that.
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Postby COOLmac© on Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:14 pm

a question and answer. some poeple in the background dont want to be name ask a few stuff so i answer them here in the most appropriate place the BIBLE thread since their questions were needing answers comming from the bible :wink:
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Postby j.23 on Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:10 pm

i feel bad for being a christian/catholic/whatever the fuck i am considering i have no clue whatever coolmacs preaching about.
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Postby Andreas Dahl on Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:53 pm

j.23 wrote:i feel bad for being a christian/catholic/whatever the fuck i am considering i have no clue whatever coolmacs preaching about.
Oh don't feel bad, no one does.. :)

A question though Coolmac; wouldn't it be easier for you to reply in private if that's where people are asking you all the questions, rather than reviving a month old thread every time.
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Postby cyanide on Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:08 pm

I think he meant people, as in, more than one, so it would suit the general public more. Plus, I think he has a hidden agenda to attract newcomers :lol:
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:15 am

Hey Cy, what exactly have you been serving since 1984? :lol:
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