BIBLICAL debates 2005

Other video games, TV shows, movies, general chit-chat...this is an all-purpose off-topic board where you can talk about anything that doesn't have its own dedicated section.

Postby COOLmac© on Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:56 am

yeah....mel brooks rocks.....i have seen "dracula dead and loving it" in HBO 13 times now in one month.......and i'm still loving it.... :lol:

ok enough talking about shlongs here...and btw the philosophical thread kicks off with much intensity that it will reap more harvest than the bible thread.....so i dont want to do this early but i was forced to do so.....in line with all our religion debates i have decided to include a question and answer portion in this thread.....feel free to ask any questions and i will read the answers out in the bible......here's a good example

QUESTION:
How can our hard-headed fellows be saved if they do not want to beleive in God?

ANSWER:
Hard-headed? Meaning, they do not want to believe? You see, we cannot really force to believe those who do not want to believe, although, there are instances when “the hard-hearted” could be soften by the power of God.

God can make him soft-hearted. This is what Ezekiel 11:19 says, “And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you, and I will take the stony heart…” God said, the stony heart will be replaced with a heart of flesh. Flesh is softer than stone. God can do that. And do you know to whom God will do that?

In Jeremiah 10:23, “Oh Lord, I know that the way of men is not in himself: It is not in men that walketh to direct his steps.”

The Bible said, man cannot direct his steps. It is God who directs his ways. In Proverbs 16:9, it says: “A man’s heart deviseth his way: the Lord derecteth his steps.”

And whose steps shall be directed by God? In Hosea 14:19 it is written: “Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right and the just shall walk in them…”

It is God who directs the steps of those who want to be worthy in the eyes of God. He is showing them the way. However, the moment God sees that the person is taking Him for granted, and that the most important things to him are money, honor and riches, God will no longer direct his steps.
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Postby COOLmac© on Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:36 pm

here i'm bringing my full arsenal: pls read and be amazed; :shock:

Question:
This is about the time of Noah, wasn’t it that the earth was engulfed by a huge amount of water? Did it mean that, that big volume of water purely came from earth only, and not from outside the earth?

ANSWER:
Genesis speaks of two places of water … (1:6-8) “And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven, and the evening and the morning were the second day.”

The very immediate heaven that we see has water above it, and under it. “Under” refer to the earth, the ground. There is also water up in space. You see, the space is made up of 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, and one percent of all other gases.

Therefore, oxygen and hydrogen are abundant in our atmosphere. And if you are going to combine two molecules of hydrogen with one molecule of oxygen, the result is water.

Put some ice in a glass, and after a while, there will already be moisture outside the glass. That is because the molecules of hydrogen had combined with the molecule of oxygen.

And during the time of Noah, there was a huge volume of water which did not only come from the atmosphere but also from under the earth (Gen. 7:11). “In the sixth hundred year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up.”

The fountains of the great deep were broken. You see, the earth has many layers. Isn’t it that it has a core? After that is the aquifer layer, or the chaos layer on the earth. This layer is made up of strong rocks that holds and controls the core. Next to this is the water. The aquifer was the one that was destroyed during the time of Noah. This is the reason why, today, scientists have discovered faults underground.

This is also the reason why there are earthquakes which are of tectonic origin because the foundation of the earth had been destroyed due to man’s wickedness during the time of Noah.

That was where the huge amount of water came from, in addition, to the heavy downpour. The water that overflowed came from both under the earth and the atmosphere. And the quantity of water, then, made possible to submerge the earth, even the highest mountain on earth. Actually, if only the ice in the North and South poles would melt, all the seas will overflow and all the land, including the mountains, will be covered with water by about two inches that is minus the rain.

That is why it is not surprising that Mount Everest was covered by water, not to mention that it rained incessantly for 40 days.
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Postby bullsfan009 on Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:18 am

COOLmac© wrote:to bullsfan....i'm going/planning to propose late this year.just have to make sure my WEDDING savings get my plan right on track....oh boy the economy here worsens by the minute.....

btw is a year and a half already enough to tie the knot? what do you think? are you married yourself? well for i know DW is having a baby soon next year..... :mrgreen:

That's great COOLmac :D One and a half years is definitely enough, in my opinion. When you think about it, that's a long time. If you and your woman are right for each other, and you both know it, what's the point in waiting???

As for me, I'm just 18 so no, I'm not married nor even close to it. I do want to get married one day, and preferably sometime in my 20s, while I'm young :wink:

And Dweaver, dude :shock: Good luck with that baby- I had no idea you were gonna be a father. That's a big responsibility- I hope you're up to it. (You better be, 'cause it's too late to back out now! :lol: :lol: )
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Postby bullsfan009 on Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:32 am

Now- back on topic...

I like how you are eager to defend your faith with actual evidence, and not like many Christians who are told to just believe because you're supposed to, and it's not holy to question things. If you really believe that you are right, then you should be able to defend it in every which way.

That was cool info there COOLmac- it's obvious you've thought this stuff through (Y)



:arrow: And now, I'll introduce a question for you & anyone else to answer & ponder. It's one that has given me much trouble... :)

QUESTION: If you had to kill 10 people, otherwise 100 people would die, would you? Say for some reason you were put into this situation, and you had absolutely no choice but to chose to kill the 10 people, and then the group of 100 would be spared, or if you don't kill the 10, then all 100 will die.

(This is along the same lines as: "If you were literally starving to death, and the only possible way to get food was to steal it, would you? What about if it was your brother, or sister, or kids, or wife that was starving? Would you steal???)

:arrow: This sounds like just a philosophy question, but the reason it's also a religion question is because the real question being asked here is: "Would you go against the laws of God to do good on earth?"

I'll give you my answer after you all give yours... :wink:
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Postby cyanide on Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:02 am

bullsfan009 wrote: :arrow: And now, I'll introduce a question for you & anyone else to answer & ponder. It's one that has given me much trouble... :)

QUESTION: If you had to kill 10 people, otherwise 100 people would die, would you? Say for some reason you were put into this situation, and you had absolutely no choice but to chose to kill the 10 people, and then the group of 100 would be spared, or if you don't kill the 10, then all 100 will die.

(This is along the same lines as: "If you were literally starving to death, and the only possible way to get food was to steal it, would you? What about if it was your brother, or sister, or kids, or wife that was starving? Would you steal???)

:arrow: This sounds like just a philosophy question, but the reason it's also a religion question is because the real question being asked here is: "Would you go against the laws of God to do good on earth?"

I'll give you my answer after you all give yours... :wink:


Before I give my answer, I would say it's very different from "If you were literally starving to death, and the only possible way to get food was to steal it, would you? What about if it was your brother, or sister, or kids, or wife that was starving? Would you steal???)" because you're sacrificing yourself for others or stealing for your own sake (I'd do it if the food is being stolen from the rich)...

Now for my answer, I would kill 10 people because killing 100 people would be worse, and I'd rather be directly responsible for the death of 10 instead of indirectly responsible for 100 deaths.
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:16 am

One who believes in God, truly believes, would not kill the 10 men. maybe it is God's will, maybe it is something completely different, but if he believes, he will not break the most important of his commandments.

What I would do? I would probably try to talk my way out of it (I'm pretty good at it :P ), but if that didn't work, then I would NOT kill. The weight in my cosciousness would be greater if i single-handedly slaughter 10 innocenst, than the one of 100 people dying because i did not commit another foul deed. If you quantify on this matter, you are probably missing the point.


"Would you go against the laws of God to do good on earth?"


We all know that this one does not exactly apply in my case :D



And Dweaver, dude Good luck with that baby- I had no idea you were gonna be a father. That's a big responsibility- I hope you're up to it. (You better be, 'cause it's too late to back out now!


Thanks friend, 7 months to go... I hope they're twins... man I love kids... Plus the wife is all mellow too lately... Can't get any better, except I've been sick for 2 days and just hanging around the bed with my laptop...
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Postby bullsfan009 on Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:06 am

Dr. DWeaver99027 wrote:Thanks friend, 7 months to go... I hope they're twins... man I love kids... Plus the wife is all mellow too lately... Can't get any better, except I've been sick for 2 days and just hanging around the bed with my laptop...

No wonder you've been making so many posts all over the place! :lol: :lol: :lol: just kidding- hope you feel better soon.


Dr. DWeaver99027 wrote:One who believes in God, truly believes, would not kill the 10 men. maybe it is God's will, maybe it is something completely different, but if he believes, he will not break the most important of his commandments.

Right you are, Mr. Dweaver. (Y) That's my answer, although it's definitely easier said than done.

Quote:

"Would you go against the laws of God to do good on earth?"


We all know that this one does not exactly apply in my case

Maybe one day, Mr. Dweaver??? :mrgreen:

cyanide wrote:Now for my answer, I would kill 10 people because killing 100 people would be worse, and I'd rather be directly responsible for the death of 10 instead of indirectly responsible for 100 deaths.

You choose for the lesser of two evils here, or "the greater good." It's a compelling case, and a tough choice. I admire your wishes to do what's best here. IMO though, I go with what Dweaver said above.

I relate this to the stealing just by the fact that you're doing a wrong to make something on earth better or right. I know it's a far more drastic case, maybe that was a bad comparison...

Good answers there guys. (Y)
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Postby COOLmac© on Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:34 pm

my answer with my own philosophy only(since i got no bible here today)

1. i wouldn't kill anybody innocent....even if it involves saving 1000000000 lives, but if the lives of the men are worth killing........let's say they were evil men......let them die.....hehehe ........no seriously there is a saying in the scriptures about the certain people like soldiers,cops,guards and any other men of weaponry services, yes God will permit them to kill, why you may ask? because these men have a duty/honor to do so.....if they kill poeple not out of malice but on the call of duty, God will understand...He is a God of Justice after all.......

2. i wouldn't steal either just to have my stomache fill for the day,maybe i'll beg or go to the poeple who can help me.......there is always a way, if you seek deeper there is always a way out.....if not seek help and God will answer your call.......now regarding into doing evil to promote goodness....nah that's what the devil wants us to think.......it's the oldest trick in the book.......for satan.....so i hope you guys never bite into these......no good ol robin hood can be in heaven that's for sure :P

and to bullsfan i never knew you were in your teens......i have always thought i'm talking to someone older than me.........the way you have your views in life, your respect towards others and your very well thought conversation.........man o man.....i can never guess you were that young :lol:

i know DW is a big guy with a kid heart, but you my man.....i'm betting if i was a chicagoan i would vote for you for a chicagoan of the year award.......you guys have these kinda of awards?
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:21 pm

i know DW is a big guy


6' 2" 212lbs.... (Y)


with a kid heart


hey, I play NBA Live 2005... :lol:


the way you have your views in life, your respect towards others and your very well thought conversation


I concur. It's rare to have such well-constructed opinions at such a young age. I woul dsuggest you think about law school, but you believe in God... :lol:
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Postby bullsfan009 on Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:15 pm

thanks guys :oops:

COOLmac- you and I think alike when it comes to that question- I agree (Y)

Dweaver-

6'2, 212 pounds is much bigger than me- I'm 5'7, 161. :lol: (you may whup me in a fight, but you'll never catch me! :lol: :lol: )
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Postby Jackal on Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:16 pm

Dr. DWeaver99027 wrote:It's rare to have such well-constructed opinions at such a young age. I woul dsuggest you think about law school, but you believe in God... :lol:


Birthday (Year Optional):may 22, 1980


Someone said young?

Anywho's, I'll get out of this orgy and let you three be. :lol:
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Postby The GOAT on Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:43 pm

:shock: COOLmacs 25? Damn man, get a life! you shouldn't be posting 20 a day when you're 25!
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:43 pm

Anywho's, I'll get out of this orgy and let you three be.


Well look what the moron tide washed up... leave this thread alone and try to resist using words such as 'orgy' in a BIBLE thread. Thank you...
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Postby Jackal on Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:06 am

Rightousness, orgy's are bad ofcourse, atleast in God's books.

As I said, I'll let you three get back to blowing eachother off. That ofcourse is a good thing in God's books. :lol:
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:39 am

I'll let you three get back to blowing eachother off. That ofcourse is a good thing in God's books.


(: Stunned silence... :)
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Postby COOLmac© on Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:48 am

i'm 24 going 25 mind you..... :lol: the 20 post per day is a product of boredom being trapped in a computer chair in front of 12 monitors for 7 1/2 hour a day....weekend not included.........my newest trip now is going to matrix forums.......there seems to be more wierd poeple there. :shock:

actually DW is reffering to bullsfan not me..... :D
blowing off was never mention in the bible.......and so was other forms of making love.......all was written was that a man and a woman slept together.....i guess God alllows any kind of experiment in the bedroom as long as you stay faithful with one partner (Y)
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Postby bullsfan009 on Tue May 03, 2005 10:40 pm

OK, so what topic does everyone want to tackle next? There haven't been any posts here for almost a week...

I still vote for the resurrection- it's the most outlandish, craziest claim of all in Christianity, but it's no place to start for people trying to disprove the religion, because there's lots of evidence for it.

What do you think, COOLmac? Or maybe you have another topic in mind?
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Wed May 04, 2005 7:51 am

there's lots of evidence for it.


Evidence? For resurrection?? Scientific evidence???

I'd like to hear it...
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Postby COOLmac© on Wed May 04, 2005 11:08 am

well in written txt in the bible the resurrection was purely introduced during Jesus time. i will post anything about resurrection when the dust clears from our office. :lol: because right now its a hell of a war zone right here.......
and yes dweaver......there has been scientific claims but i'm not very sure if there has been anybody resurected yet.....since the dead will only be resurrected in the judgement day (Y)
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Postby bullsfan009 on Thu May 05, 2005 2:43 am

Oh yeah, Dweaver, there's lots of evidence regarding the resurrection. Whether or not it's credible and scientific will be up to the individual. However, I've read a lot on this subject and there's some very strong arguments out there. I don't have time today, but I'll break it all out starting tomorrow.

Later-

P.S.- What's up with your job, COOLmac? :lol:
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Postby cyanide on Thu May 05, 2005 4:11 am

Maj. DWeaver99027 wrote:
there's lots of evidence for it.


Evidence? For resurrection?? Scientific evidence???

I'd like to hear it...


There's a bunch of them in the book called The Case For Christ. Pretty damn popular book too, although it recieved a lot of criticism from the left wing Christians.
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Postby AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy on Thu May 05, 2005 4:47 am

the left wing Christians.


:shock: What in heaven's name is that? Communists that believe in God?
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Postby COOLmac© on Thu May 05, 2005 11:23 am

well our office here is in total chaos since the vice president is here for her annual office branch check-up.....she'll be on a plane at exactly 3 pm this afternoon for her trip back to the aussies.......then i'll be back to my normal working conditions, e.g. back to my chair and isolated from the other staff. :lol:


anyways bringing someone back from the dead has been medically proven....back in my hometown a girl was declared dead for 3 days already and families are starting to grief and did a week long wake when on the 3rd night she just bust her eyes wide open and ask for a drink.......everyone was shocked... :shock:
but that is not the resurrection we are talking about...hehehe as i said the bible has a different view when it comes to the greatest promise of all time.....to live again after our earthly death..well stay tuned guys (Y)
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Postby bullsfan009 on Thu May 05, 2005 11:04 pm

Here goes (this will be a combination of my beliefs, and what I've learned from a couple different books- including "The Case for Christ" and "God in the Pits"):

Ok, first of all, if you want to prove that Jesus was raised from the dead, you need to backtrack for a second, and ask some fundamental questions:

:arrow: Did Jesus really live/ever exist???
Old writings from what is considered to be the time of Jesus (about 2000 years ago) that are not part of the Bible have been found that talk about a person named Jesus. Three of the authors were Josephus, Tacitus, and Pliny the Younger. From their writings, this can be learned about Jesus:

1. Jesus was a Jewish teacher.
2. Many people believed he performed healings/miracles.
3. Some believed he was the messiah mentioned in the Torah
4. He was rejected by Jewish leaders
5. He was crucified under the authority of Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius.

Anyone can do a simple Google search of these authors to read more...But for the sake of continuing, let's assume that Jesus did exist, and that #5 is also true- he was crucified. Then, the next question on the road to answering whether or not he was resurrected would be:

:arrow: Did Jesus die on the cross?
Obviously, if Jesus never died on the cross, and was taken down and revived, you couldn't say that he (literally) was raised from the dead. So did he die on the cross? Here are some arguments that go with the theory that he was revived and not resurrected:

1. In the Bible, it says that while Jesus was on the cross and still alive, he claimed to be thirsty (a natural body function result of losing so much blood). A Roman solider put some liquid in a sponge and gave it to him- maybe that liquid drugged him and made him appear dead when he was just heavily drugged up.
2. In Mark 15:44, Pontius Pilate reflected that he was surprised how soon Jesus died- maybe he was taken off the cross before he was actually dead.
3. This argument explains why the tomb was empty after 3 days- there was no dead body - and how Jesus could walk around afterwards, and eat, drink and talk with people.

:arrow: But maybe Jesus really did die on the cross! Here's some arguements to suggest that:

1. If you've ever seen the movie "The Passion" that came out like a year ago, you know what Jesus endured (and actually, all crucifixion victims) in and leading up to a Roman-style cruxifiction. First there was a flogging- most people were hit 39 times with a whip of braided leather thongs with metal balls woven into them, and pieces of bone inside them too. (In the Bible it says that Jesus was flogged 40 times) I don't want to go through exactly what this does because it'll make you queasy, but let's just establish the fact that LOTS of blood is lost in this process.
2. Jesus showed two symptoms of losing so much blood: (1) He was thirsty on the cross, like mentioned above, and (2) he collapsed while carrying his wood cross on the road to his crucifixion site, and soldiers ordered a man to carry it for him.
3. Now- when Jesus was nailed to the cross and hung up there, finally crucified, did he die up there? The main way that people died on the cross- the way you die is basically by suffocation/asphyxiation. Basically, each breath is hard (and not to mention, extremely painful b/c you're putting strain on the nails) and eventually after many hours, sheer exhaustion takes over and the person can't muster up the strength to breathe any more. So then the lack of oxygen leads to an erratic heartbeat, and cardiac arrest.
4. All of this leads to a build-up of fluids around the heart and lungs. And in the Bible, it mentions in John 19:34: "on the the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water."

I think it's just common sense here that Jesus died on the cross. Think about it: if he didn't, in the modern world he'd be strapped to a hospital bed for a long, long time. But his disciples put their lives (and some were crucified too) on the fact that he was up and about three days later. If he was just a blood-soaked mess that they were hiding away secretely, would they have been so inspired to get the same treatment, just to defend a lie?

So again, for the sake of continuing, let's assume that he died on the cross.

:arrow: What Happened to Jesus's Body?
This is the next question I'd like to tackle. There are a few theories on what happened to Jesus's body after he was put in the tomb:

1. The disciples stole it and hid it somewhere, and then ran around telling everyone they'd seen him alive.
2. Someone else stole the body, and when the disciples looked 3 days later and found the tomb empty, they believed he was raised from the dead.
3. The women who first saw the empty tomb forgot which tomb was Jesus', and looked in a different (and empty) tomb. Then they believed he had been raised from the dead.
4. The Roman or Jewish leaders secretly ordered the body to be removed.
5. Then there is the Bible's version: Jesus was resurrected from the dead, and walked out after 2 angels removed the stone covering it.

First of all, the theory that the disciples took it doesn't make sense because of a lack of motive. If Jesus really was dead, and they stole the body, all of his teachings about heaven and such would go out the window in their eyes. So then why would they risk their lives for a lie? In the book "God in the Pits," the author Mark Andrew Ritchie discusses this.

Whenever there's a conspiracy going on, the greater the pressure that is applied to the conspirators, the more likely they will give in to the instinct of self-preservation. For example, if you cheat on your wife/husband (spouce) and then decide to just lie about it, you'll keep on lying as long as whatever is to gain by lying (preservation of the marriage, stability, money) outweighs in your mind whatever there is to lose by lying (feeling guilty, nagging conscience, danger of being found out). Now, what if your spouce puts a loaded gun to your head and says, "JUST TELL ME THE TRUTH- DID YOU CHEAT ON ME???"

All of a sudden, the scales have shifted. What there is to gain (your life!) now severely outweighs what there is to lose by giving up the truth (angry wife, broken marriage, loss of money). So it's only natural that at this point, the conspiracy will be broken and the truth will come out.

So let's look at the disciples. If they stole the body, and knew that the resurrection "conspiracy" was false, what motives did they have to keep it going? Think about it: all they were getting for keeping up their conspiracy was jail, exile, torture, misery, and death. One disciple was actually crucified UPSIDE DOWN. But what would they get if they broke down the conspiracy, and admitted it was a lie? They'd recieve an overall end of suffering, and there would have been a financial reward for the one(s) who went to the Romans or Jewish leaders to turn everyone else in.

All that all of this proves, however, is only that the disciples truly believed in what they were preaching. This doesn't mean they were right, however- many people have died for causes they believed to be right, yet anyone can tell that it was wrong (KKK members, Nazis, other cult groups). But remember this: the disciples weren't just saying that they believed that Jesus was resurrected, but that they had seen him alive. On this belief they were willing to place their lives- on an eyewitness account, not a belief! According to the Bible, the resurrected Jesus appeared to them many times, as well to other people, before finally going back up to heaven for good.

None of the disciples ever broke down and claimed that it was all a lie, that is, they believed to their deaths that they had literally seen a dead man walking again! :shock:

Referring back to the list of 5 possibilities of What Happened to the Body, this theory explains #2- even if someone else had stolen the body and that made the disciples believe he was resurrected, this doesn't explain their belief of having many encounters with him afterwards.

And for #3 and #4, why wasn't the body simply produced when all of the rumors and craziness started happening? That would have killed everything.

As for #5, the belief that Jesus was raised from the dead, that's what all of the above arguments have been trying to lead to. Obviously, there is no concrete, absolute proof of this. But I'm sure there's a lot more evidence than many people expected, and I know COOLmac has more, and on the internet, in bookstores, etc. there's lots more too. Ultimately, it comes down to belief- I just believe that there's lots of good reasons to do so.

And finally, I know that a lot of this "evidence" or arguements depend on: how accurate is the Bible? We should definitely go into this topic soon...
Last edited by bullsfan009 on Fri May 06, 2005 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby COOLmac© on Fri May 06, 2005 2:45 pm

very well thought indeed mr.bullsfan :applaud:
i want to add something though to have few of your arguments a little bit insy winsy concrete a little more.

:arrow: the romans always kill the one that is crossed....it is their law.
:arrow: during the time Jesus was crossed, the following day was a jewish holiday(or shall we say the sabbath)....so to avoid Pilate a war against the other Jewish law makers.....he ordered the lead guard to make sure that those crucified must die that day.....the two robbers(who by the way was nameless) was still alived that afternoon(remember Jewish tradition that at 6 pm it is considered to be the following day already) the lead guard(executioner) ordered both the robbers to be put down from the cross adn have their legs broken because they can't kill during the sabbath.....they think that breaking the legs/bones of these robbers and left them to rot and the top of the hill will surely kill them anytime soon.........
:arrow: but in the case of Jesus......since He was already dead by 3 PM that day, the guards took him down before 6 pm and have his body taken to Pilate....with this the prophhecy of Isaiah has been fullfilled..."not one bone of His body will be broken........."also remember that in Jerusalem were there was rarely an earthquake, a quake did occur that day, and a flash of lightning hit the valley next to the hill of the cross....(twas recorded in roman crucifixion archives)
:arrow: after that night....i think it was John who wanted to take the body......Fearing that many will opposed the move.Pilate ordered many of his men and escorted Jesus body to a tomb not far from calvary........which by almost midnight another earthquake occured..
:arrow: within the 3 day period going to the sunday ressurection.....the tomb was heavily guarded and no man can even came close to it.........but a few Jesus apparation has been recorded in the bible by the time of saturday and early sunday morning.......
:arrow: sunday the day which Pilate formally announce/give order to give out the body back to Jesus deciples......when the soldiers tried to return back to the tomb.......they saw the guards there asleep and the tomb was already half open......and the women claimed that they saw a angel inside talking to them.....imagine this.....the roman guards were asleep....by doing this they are putting their asses to capital punishment.......can it be divine intervention that they have fallen asleep?
:arrow: after that many have ecountered seeing Jesus.....even having meals with him....listening to his teaching, until that faithful day the disciples saw his earthly body asceneded to heaven:)

anyways that's the story i have been faithfully believing all my life about Jesus's resurrection ........

good points there bullsfan, you even covered the doubters point of view (Y)

anyways have you noticed that only the book of John, actually stress out Jesus carried a cross? the other 3 gospels all speak of the same guy that was ordered to carry Jesus's cross.......being flog 40 times and badly beaten....i dont think Jesus can carry anymore a physical cross.....i'm open for a debate at this matter soon.....lets all go back to the ressurection topic for now this week ok?

GOD bless you all poeple (Y)
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