The PHILOSOPHY thread...because thinking is for free...

maybe i should stop visiting matrix forums from now on.....i feel kinda wierd after......poeple there are nuts talking about symbols in the movie and stuff like the green tint,the shades, the writings at the walls, newspapers etc.etc

if another matrix movie pops up...it will confuse poeple even more....it's one of those movies that doesn't promote a single hypothesis.....it's a kinda open film..which each viewer can view it's own opinion on what's really is going on.....that's just my philosophical observation

granted I missed a few, actually 90% of my philosophy classes, Descartes probably was trying to get at that....I guess that's just how I interpreted it as I can see a link to the movie from the demon....

he was saying something that we might not really exist physically since we might bjust be deceived by a greater being. but by being deceived he is sure that we have a mind that is being deceived

the humans in the Matrix don't really exist so to speak physically....and we are being deceived by the robots who create the Matrix as the ultimate deception of the human race....

but I think you are right on what he was descartes was trying to get across, but I still see the parallels between the 2.....

Which brings us to the question: I sreality something pre-existent or is it something that the sentient mind perceives and thus defines as such?

This is much like the 'tree in the forest makes a sound' question...

I would like to hear you ropinions on this...

Is reality something pre-existent or is it something that the sentient mind perceives and thus defines as such?

Hmm, maybe it's both? We are placed in a pre-existent world that we define as reality, but at the same time, the way we percieve this world is different from everybody else's. To our perceptions, reality is different from other perceptions, but the tangible world that is called reality is all the same.

To go at a deeper level, I'll pose another question: Would anything intangible (in the mind, "universal truths" such as love) count as reality or illusion?

To go at a deeper level, I'll pose another question: Would anything intangible (in the mind, "universal truths" such as love) count as reality or illusion?

probably just concepts that we as a society has agreed on. more like "truths" or norms that has been set up by society

The perception of reality is really impossible to determine. Take into account people who think they've been abducted by aliens or travel time, that is a reality to them. Then look at those who think it's a load of shit, in their reality that is not even possible.

To go at a deeper level, I'll pose another question: Would anything intangible (in the mind, "universal truths" such as love) count as reality or illusion?

Neither one of them IMO since it's only a feeling (talking about love here). But if I have to chose between them I would say that it's reality, but only for the individual who experience the feeling (but love is not only a feeling it happends real stuff body actually, the body produces more of something that makes you feel that you're in love, so maybe it is 100% reality).

To go at a deeper level, I'll pose another question: Would anything intangible (in the mind, "universal truths" such as love) count as reality or illusion?

I think, that if they were illusions they would be part of reality, so they may actually be both.

About the Descartes comments, the spanish texts call the hypothetical higher power literally the "Genio Maligno" (evil genius).
Just a useless piece of trivia...

About the Descartes comments, the spanish texts call the hypothetical higher power literally the "Genio Maligno" (evil genius).

we actually kept saying "evil genius" several times when we discussed Descartes in class Philosophers make up so many words

Okay, this is real philosophy, discussing th every fabric of reality. I would like to make a request to all of you, so please bear with me for a moment.

I would like anybody interested to give me a definition of the term "reality" in a single sentence. If you do, we will then go from there. Trusr me on this one...

reality=show nah j/k

reality is living everyday of your life with ups and downs.

reality is living everyday of your life with ups and downs.

Are you sure this is the definition you want to give to "reality" . These are things included in 'reality'. Try to give a deeper, more philosophical definition...

Okay, this is real philosophy, discussing th every fabric of reality. I would like to make a request to all of you, so please bear with me for a moment.

I would like anybody interested to give me a definition of the term "reality" in a single sentence. If you do, we will then go from there. Trusr me on this one...

Looks like you need to brush up on some Descartes.

"I think...therefore I am."

I'd rather have it the traditional way:

' "Reality" is ....... '

reality is when i'm confronted with things which i dont expect and things which i expect to happen all at the same time.

reality is when i'm confronted with things which i dont expect and things which i expect to happen all at the same time.

Go deeper man, this is the philosophy thread...

For example: "Reality" is what the mind perceives as a given"

or

"Reality is the sum of the fundamental truths that rule this world"


Make another attempt...

Bloody hell you're pushy

Reality is a subjective interpretation of the surroundings that individuals percieve.

reality is everything i can be aware of but also the things i have learned of; like the microscopic world.......unreality is what i haven't experience yet like heaven or hell; which i have faith upon to be real but i can't prove.

HOWS THAT for a change

Bloody hell you're pushy

Did you just call me a pussy??? oh, it's pushy.... well, yes , I try to get the best out of people...

Reality is a subjective interpretation of the surroundings that individuals percieve.

Good,good, that's more like it... although there is a contradiction in you rdefinition IMO. Will adress later, when more have spoken their mind....

Life is full of contradictions, anyway

Edit: I can't figure out why it is a contradiction, though... so I'm waiting for your explanation

Last edited by cyanide on Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why is it a contradiction???

Perception IS subjective.

the humans in the Matrix don't really exist so to speak physically....and we are being deceived by the robots who create the Matrix as the ultimate deception of the human race....

That is the whole issue being discussed here... Is reality a pre-existent truth or something that requires the sentient mind to give it substance?

"I think...therefore I am."

So if someone is brain-dead, he is dead as a whole, is that what you say? This is another matter of definition. Definition of the terms 'life' and 'alive'.

Reality is a subjective interpretation of the surroundings that individuals percieve.

It's not really a contradiction in the accurate use of the term, just a question that I have to pose...

Do those surroundings exist before the individuals perceive it, or do they require perception to be valid and existing? For example, would the definition " Reality is a subjective interpretation of what individuals perceive as their surroundings " be very far from what you were trying to say?


Another example. Let's suppose that due to a mass scale and worldwide illness of the eyes avery person 2 generations from now is what we now call 'colorblind'. Let's assume that a colorblind man now perceives our 'red' as his 'green' .

Question. What would 'red' be in 2 generations from now?

Interesting points, Dweaver I guess the addition of, "percieve as their surroundings" is more specific (and maybe more accurate).

Red in two generations from now would probably be no different, unless the arbitrary word "red" is assigned to a different color that we call "green." We're already redefining what red means today, and red could be pink or orange for color seeing people, and for colorblind people, it could still be green. "Red" is arbitrary and it's assigned to the perception of what we commonly see as the color "red."

"I think...therefore I am."

So if someone is brain-dead, he is dead as a whole, is that what you say? This is another matter of definition. Definition of the terms 'life' and 'alive'.

You'll have to ask Descartes about that one.

But honestly, do we know what goes on in a brain-dead person's mind? Is it fair to say that he or she doesn't think?

This makes me think some. How would you define a dream and say that it is different from reality? Perhaps reality is a dream, and when you die, you are really awakened.