Freezing Issue

[Mark.]

Hey its me back AGAIN with another error.

The game keeps freezing, not crashing but freezing causing the whole system to crash.

I notice that when this happens the graphics card is usually pretty hot. I though this could be the graphics card but when I put another card in it seems to over heat too.

Then I looked at air flow problems, I had basically no fans so I went a bought 4 case fans, 2 for the front, 1 for the back and 1 that I mounted so its pointing directly at the heatsink on the video card.

Still I keep getting the freezing so i've just currently done a whole system reformatt which I was hoping would be the problem, but alas it still freezes.

Now ive noticed the problem in Need for Speed Underground 2 as well, but havent experienced it in any other games YET. However I have had it freeze once when watching a DVD, but that could just have been random since thats 1 out of about 30 times, where as NBA Live freezes almost everytime I play an actual game unless I only Intervene a 4th quarter (i'm assuming this is becasue the error doesnt get a chance to happen).


Anyway I'm thinking it could be a Motherboard error or CPU error, but the graphics cards are getting very hot so im leaning towards motherboard.....


Also I have ran benchmarks on basically all components, and the computer has preformed well. Only thing I havent fully tested is the Hard Drive since its an online test that and i dont have the computer hooked up to the net (It did pass the first test though when I had it hooked up last.

So any help would be appreciated. I'm looking at either forking out approx $75 to get it tested at a computing store, or sending the motherboard back to the supplier, or just selling the whole PC as the error is not very common most apps except NBA Live really.

[COOLmac©]

one thing though.....adding too much fan around can slow the power from the supply to the computer processor causing crashes.....the video card is always hot in graphically intense games....it also turned hot in graphics editing.....there are 4 main culprits in a system freeze......and these are in order.

1.BAD MEMORY
2.BAD CPU
3.BAD MAIN BOARD
4.NEAR DEATH HDD

wait up for more second opinion as i can never point out whats wrong with your machine without physically checking it

[Mark.]

Some more info,

I was just playing Morrowind, and I got a message from PC Probe (A program that measures the temp of the CPU and Mobo and also fan speeds) that said my CPU temp was above the threshold 75 degrees celcius/ 167 Farenheit. I just set my threshold higher to 80 and continued to play, but shortly after the system froze.

Also I forgot my specs:

Pentium 4 3.0ghz
Asus Mobo p5p800??
2x 512 mb Ram
120 gb HDD
Raedon 9600 xt 256mb G-Card

Also the system is not very old at all either + I have the new drivers (tried rolling back etc)

[curious101]

I notice that when this happens the graphics card is usually pretty hot. I though this could be the graphics card but when I put another card in it seems to over heat too.

What's the brand and model of the graphics card that you replaced? Was it the same? Based on your specs, it could be that your PSU cannot handle all the power that your components demand. If you only have a 300W PSU, then your other components would surely overheat. Check if your PSU's exhaust is too hot.

Then I looked at air flow problems, I had basically no fans so I went a bought 4 case fans, 2 for the front, 1 for the back and 1 that I mounted so its pointing directly at the heatsink on the video card.

Remember that the concept of air cooling is not to literally cool the inside of the case by putting fan directly in front of a component. Rather, air cooling is exhausting all the hot air inside the case to maintain a "cool" temperature. I'd suggest you put only 1 in front (intake), 2 at the back (exhaust), and 1 at the side panel, pointing towards your graphics card.

Also I have ran benchmarks on basically all components, and the computer has preformed well. Only thing I havent fully tested is the Hard Drive since its an online test that and i dont have the computer hooked up to the net (It did pass the first test though when I had it hooked up last.

What benchmarking software did you use? Sandra, 3DMark 03, 3DMark 05, and Aquamark? The last three mentioned is supposedly heavier than NBA Live 2005 and would certainly freeze your system if there's a really serious hardware problem.

I was just playing Morrowind, and I got a message from PC Probe (A program that measures the temp of the CPU and Mobo and also fan speeds) that said my CPU temp was above the threshold 75 degrees celcius/ 167 Farenheit. I just set my threshold higher to 80 and continued to play, but shortly after the system froze

Kindly post your CPU temps, fan speed, CPU core voltage reading, other voltage readings. Normal graphics card temp reading are on the 38-50 degrees celsius range on idle, +/-10-20 on load. Your graphics card is hot.

Shelling out a significant amount of money for testing would be my last resort. Like in my case, I had no spare parts like a CPU, memory, mobo, and power supply unit, so I had no choice but bring my PC to a shop and have it tested there. They later found out that my CPU's dead and so I had to replace it. Sometimes, taking your PC to a shop, even if you know you can solve the problem...only that you don't have the spare parts, is the only choice.

[Mark.]

my PSU is 370Watts and i have swapped it with another 370 or 350 (cant remember properly). I have a pretty basic one too, ie no dual 12v rails etc.

The card(s) I swapped were both ATI, one was identical and one was a 9500, the errors occured in both.

I have done Sandra 3d mark 2001 (i think) 3d mark 2005, and some random Ram test that used a boot cd. I havent done aqua mark yet.

What temps would you like?? The ones for when the computer is not stressed or when playing games?? I have no way to monitor my graphics card temp.

If I can remember properly my CPU temp (at rest) was 50-55, 60 sometimes. Mobo temp was 29-31, i cant remember fan speed sorry. My volatages were 11.5-12.1, 5.0-5.5 and I cant remember for the 3v range. And I dont have a reading for the CPU core.

I will give more accurate readings later on today when I get back to my dorm where the PC is.

Thanks

[curious101]

If I can remember properly my CPU temp (at rest) was 50-55, 60 sometimes. Mobo temp was 29-31

You mobo temp is fine. You CPU temp is hot for an idle temp. Normal P4 3.0 GHz Prescotts range from 39-45 C at idle. At full load, temps are at 50-55 C. As long as it's below 70, system freezes should not occur.

Sandra reports all the information you need about your system. CPU information can easily be obtained with a double click and waiting for a few seconds. The model, frequency, core voltage, temp., etc. is reported there. The same goes true for memory and graphics card info. Sandra can actually report all of them.

I think the Radeon 9550's and higher models have GPU temp sensors built within them. Can't you see the temp monitoring feature in the control panel of your display properties? Right after running 3D Mark 01 or 3D Mark 05, go right away to your cpanel and check the GPU temps. See if it goes higher than 80 C.

Here are some testimonies I got from other forums about the PSU:

edited---
If you dont want to experience problems on your PC in the future like stability issues, hardware malfunction, loss of data, boot up problems, etc. then I suggest that you change your generic PSU now.

Maybe you don't believe in this. I experienced all those problems before but after I changed my PSU to a branded one everything's working fine now.

- i think that's a sign of unclean power surging from the PSU, going to the motherboard and all other devices.

- Just bought a new hec 475 PSU. problem solved

- There you go! I guess you've learned that you should take as much care in choosing your PSU as you do when choosing the other PC components.

------------------------------------------
After you have borrowed spare parts from your friends (borrow a PSU, a good one with high amperage on the +12V rail. Enermax, HEC, Task brands are reliable.), and the problem still occurs... after you have booted with minimal components, when you have done all benchmarks properly, and the problem still occurs...it's now your best option to take your PC to a professional.

[Mark.]

Yeah I have had tempeture warnings during playing Live and other games saying that the CPU is over 70 degrees, then not long after a freeze occurs, however the freeze happens with out warnings often too.

I cant seem to find a way to check the tempeture of my card, I cant find the section in the control pannel of the display settings.

None of my friends seem to have a really decent PSU either. And my system is pretty much on minimal componenets as it is.

Looks like I might have to get it tested.

[David]

fuck.. 70 degrees.. what are you trying to do fry your entire mobo?

The average running temp for a CPU should be 17-25 degrees..

I can't believe it was at 70 degrees you must be mistaken.. but I would think you are overheating your CPU.. that is why it is "freezing" up. or more like "shutting down" .. CPU's have a cutout mech on them so if they get too hot they shutdown rather than melting...

To solve your problem you need more fans in your case and increase the air circulation through the case and over the CPU...

[Mark.]

yeah ive done all that, P4's do run rather hot, but yes 70 is far too hot. It doesnt shut down however, it just freezes. I have contacted the supplier and he suggested checking that the heatsink is on properly, which I believe it is, or applying some more heat paste (which I will have to buy, but dont know where to get it).

Anyway thanks for the replies

[The X]

I'm watching this space as you might be able to answer my freezing problems with it if you solve your problems....although my cpu doesn't really freeze during NBA Live, just when I have multiple programs running....I too have an ATI graphics card and the problems only started after I got the new motherboard and graphics card put in....

[curious101]

The average running temp for a CPU should be 17-25 degrees.

This is true for Intel Pentium 4 (Prescott) 1+ up to 2.4 GHz. Modern Pentiums like the those that have 600-800 MHz bus speeds and higher core voltages would reach an average temp of =/- 43 C.

I have contacted the supplier and he suggested checking that the heatsink is on properly, which I believe it is, or applying some more heat paste (which I will have to buy, but dont know where to get it).

I didn't suggest this to you because I assumed you bought a packaged PC and that the guys from where you bought your PC should already properly mount the heatsink for you. On the contrary, if you bought the parts independently and assembled them yourself...remounting the heatsink when your CPU's running hot would be the first solution.

or applying some more heat paste (which I will have to buy, but dont know where to get it)

The heat paste he's probably referring to is Arctic Silver 5 Alumina. This is the brand preferred by enthusiasts and overclockers alike. AS5 claims to reduce CPU/chipset/GPU/memory chips temps by as much as +/-5 C. That's already very significant for overclockers as they can extract some more juice out of their CPU's if the temp and core voltages are reduced. The proper term for this heat paste is thermal paste. Thermal pastes are available in some PC stores and are widely available in PC modification/enthusiast stores near you. They're actually a necessity in PC mod shops.

When using AS5, it should not be "more". The specific instructions can be found in their website. Only a small amount (about as thin as a bond paper) should be applied to the CPU/CPU core...just enough to cover the whole area and the texts on the CPU.

Sandra reports all the information you need about your system. CPU information can easily be obtained with a double click and waiting for a few seconds. The model, frequency, core voltage, temp., etc. is reported there. The same goes true for memory and graphics card info. Sandra can actually report all of them.

[Mark.]

Ok i just ran a test with Sandra and It told me that the Main board temp was too high and there was a "!" mark beside power/aux temp witha reading of 120 degrees celcius.

The CPU temp while running just sandra, msn messenger and Internet explorer is 52 degrees.

There is a tip that says: SMIBIOS/DMI information may be innacurate.

[curious101]

Ok i just ran a test with Sandra and It told me that the Main board temp was too high and there was a "!" mark beside power/aux temp witha reading of 120 degrees celcius.

The CPU temp while running just sandra, msn messenger and Internet explorer is 52 degrees.

There is a tip that says: SMIBIOS/DMI information may be innacurate.

The mainboard temp was too high? 29-31 C is a normal temp for mobos. On average, I reach up to 46 C for my mobo and I experienced no freezes. CPU temp is too high, 52 C at idle. I don't know about this Power/Aux temp but I'm guessing this is a power supply. 120 C? That's way too high, to the point of melting. You may have very inaccurate results. This could be a misconfigured PC Probe (a bad program written by ASUS). Temp sensors are pretty inaccurate because of environment limitations, but not very inaccurate. Use other temp monitoring software such as Motherboard Monitor (MBM) 5 and SpeedFan. Compare PC Probe temps with the ones reported by MBM and SpeedFan, perhaps you can see a difference. Also, try to read your temps from the BIOS if you have some kind of a HARDWARE MONITOR menu in your BIOS. BIOS readings tend to be more accurate by about 10 C.

How about your graphics card temps? Didn't you Sandra it also? Try to see what messages are reported by Sandra.

Wrong air circulation inside your case would also result to hot components. Try to open your case when you benchmark or when you play NBA Live 2005. The temperature of an open enclosure is sometimes significantly less than closed ones. If the same symptoms occur, then you have low power. Replace your power supply and run tests again.

In this way, you could determine what component is giving you random freezes because of defect or because it is very hot.

[Mark.]

Well I can answer two questions straight away,

I have tired it plenty of times with the side of the case off and the same error occurs.

I couldnt find any info about the temp of the graphics card sorry.

Ill have a look at those other programs during the day, but im thinking im just going to take the PC into a Computer Shop, its only $45 NZD.