The time is now

[Matthew]

There was once a time when there were no politics involved here. No "exclusive patchers" (to the orgies, you know what im talking about you faggots). A time when the inmates didn't run the asylum. Of course, its all changed now. There is politics. It seems that its infected the community and people seem to be walking around on eggshells. People from the Nlsc get their posts edited over there. Things need to change, yet they wont.

This is why we're a joke.

This is why the community isn't respected.

I could sit here and rant about how laughable it is that when Ben snaps his fingers, David does whatever (just look at the "stolen" retro reviews myself and andrew did, and then they go and make a dynasty section in their forums. WHAT A FUCKING ORIGINAL IDEA ). I could sit here and show how nbalive.org's motives are to become "the dominant website" and all that, but I'm not.

Just don't believe the hype, from either side. Think for yourselves and dont buy into blind following.

There comes a time to move on, and this is that time. I dont want this to be a post about me, rather a post about how we could improve the community. We cant move on with people having their own agenda's and serving their own ego. It cant be a coincidence that the worst game in EA's series happens to have the worst and most torn community?

People can make what you will of this thread. Turn it into somthing positive and turn the community back in the right direction, or watch it go into a flame. It's about time that people realised where this is all going, and how the community is a collection of people's energy. If there is nothing but negativity, the community will be negative. If people want that, they should not be allowed to be here.

That goes for the majority (not all, but the majority) of NLSC and NBALive.org users.

Before I go, it is time to acknowledge some people i do know from the community, they deserve it:

Jae: Who would have seriously thought in 2001 that when I'd throw in the towel in 2005 that you'd be the top of the list? You actually care about the community, are respected, and make the place as fun as you can. Good luck with it.

Stevan: I know he isnt around atm, but he deserves all the respect in the world, and I would love for him to take my vacant moderating spots.

Andrew: It's hard being the only one at the top, but i honestly believe to let this community thrive again you cant do it by yourself. You do do a great job, but let jae be admin also. If it doesnt work out, revert back. Its about time that idiots dont get given the opportunities to create havoc on the forums. You're a great bloke, and i know you might take this personally, but dont have thin skin. This isnt about personal issues, its about the community.

Air Gordon: Apart from having the best nickname on the forums, you also have alot of potential to help the site. Just continue to not pull any punches and go with your instincts on decisions

Yohance: Another guy who i dont get to see anymore online, but a true champion. Theres not much else i can say, just keep doing what you are doing in your life.

Jackal: I never remember your real name, but fuck it. You have a spine, which is great, and you also are mature enough to realise that you dont know everything. Great combination, and also a great leader.

Kobe4mvp: One of the few genuine users on here. Loves his lakers and basketball, only young but still mature. Remember, being mature doesnt mean you cant laugh, fool

Thats about it. If anyone wants to talk on msn: whichbank@gmail.com

[Ataraxia]

oh man you were my favourite moderator. Whose gonna support me when Melo gets bashed .

I agree with you, I think the community needs to be baptised(so to speak)....theirs just to many flame wars and hatred....I got into the drama but I got myself out as of late.

Oh well I guess this means Im the only one that'll be using this emoticon, therefore I declare it as my own.

Anyway good luck with whatever it is you plan on doing.

Heres a goodbye song

I would never bother you
I would never promise to
I will never follow you
I will never bother you
Never say a word again
I will crawl away for good

I will move away from here
You won't be afraid of fear
No thought was put into this
I always knew it would come to this
Things have never been so swell
I have never felt failed to fail
Pain... (x3)
You know you're right (x3)

I´m so warm and calm inside
I no longer have to hide
Let's talk about someone else
Steaming, soon begins to melt
[nothing else is right!!!!]
Nothin' really bothers her
She just wants to love herself

I will move away from here
You won't be afraid of fear
No thought was put into this
I always knew it'll come to this
Things have never been so swell
I have never felt so well
Pain... (x5)
You know you're right (x17)
Pain...

[J@3]

You're so gay Najira joking joking...

You've been telling me for a while you might do this, and while I never doubted you eventually would, everytime you seemingly put it off I was alot happier about it. I feel like making a long post for some reason, so I will. Matthew and I have known each other for a pretty long time, it didn't really start off too pleasantly... in fact, I think we probably flamed each other more than any two people have ever gone after each other before. Matthew was basically being used by Shane as some sort of verbal battering ram when he couldn't get one over on me, and to be honest he was the best person to pick for that particular thing considering when he wants to be Matthew can go nuts Eventually though things started to shift, and as other fights brewed between other members on the forums somehow Matthew and I started talking to each other on MSN and found that when we're not fighting like girls we actually get along quite well. From then on it was basically the two of us against whoever could throw their own aggression at us, it kind of peaked when we came up against Yohance and Shane and I think we did a pretty good job at that. Anyways, enough with the history lesson. I'll move onto the post now.

I could sit here and show how nbalive.org's motives are to become "the dominant website" and all that, but I'm not.

If people can't see it for themselves they're idiots.

Just don't believe the hype, from either side. Think for yourselves and dont buy into blind following.

Couldn't have said it better. Anyone can look across the communities and see that people can be like sheep. Whether it's those who apparentely agree with everything I say, or the ones who seem to want to become mini-Ben's. I thought Repole was like that but since getting to know him I realized I underrated his ability to think for himself, KevC however is another story. That's just one aspect though, and it's one example from .org. I'm not going to turn this into some anti-.org tirade.

It cant be a coincidence that the worst game in EA's series happens to have the worst and most torn community?

I dunno, FIFA is pretty shit

Of course, its all changed now. There is politics. It seems that its infected the community and people seem to be walking around on eggshells. People from the Nlsc get their posts edited over there. Things need to change, yet they wont.

I'm really not sure how to explain how things have changed. It would be easy to say that the reason it's become less about fun and more about politics and all of that bullshit is because there are two main rival sites, but that's not the case at all. People had their own sites for patching and whatever years and years ago and nothing like this happened, I guess what's changed is that the desire those people had was to make a site for people who enjoyed their patches, just somewhere for them to get a bit extra recognition like 4th-Quarter is basically doing now. Of course these days it's all about becoming the #1 site and having the best patchers, best posters, best idea's etc etc. Too much competition for something so ridiculous and stupid. Kevin recently brought up the idea of merging the two sites, and you know what, I'm entirely against this. No matter what they might think, most of the people whom would be involved in a merger have changed since when I knew them. I'd like to say though, if "exclusive patchers" and posters are "good for the community" then I'm not here, what a load of shit.

As far as what you suggested about me being admin, I'll be the first one to say that a large majority wouldn't like the idea. It's kind of interesting, when I first became a moderator obviously there were objections but alot of people have kind of swung to think it's not such a bad idea afterall. Although David did the biggest U-Turn, going from "Andrew should make you a mod. You'd be a great mod. I love you" to "I can't believe he made you a mod " lol awell, each to their own. I suspect the same would happen if I was an admin and I'm not entirely sure Andrew and I would agree on certain forum aspects but this all being said I can't see it happening any time soon.

From a personal standpoint my opinion on Matthew is that he's one of the most loyal people you'll ever meet. He's always more than willing to stick up for you and in my case basically single handedly got me the moderator job. I enjoy his posts because he seems to have found this great balance where on NBA Talk he offers his full opinion and manages to provoke good discussion, and on General Talk finds a way to be really funny... or provoke good discussion on politics, which isn't as funny but still. I'm not happy to see him go, I can understand his reasons though.

Seeing asthough I can't be fucked going to EB and getting one of those "lifes" we spoke of earlier, hopefully we'll be able to come up with something we can work on together in the near future Hopefully this can turn into something productive and not just a random flame war.

[The X]

only reason I go to dotorg is to check out cocobee's dynasty....that's it really....I get most of my patches from 4th quarter and nbafiles rather than dotorg....I thought they weren't meant to be patching website, but I just haven't seen it....guess I haven't really looked round there much....enough about that though....

yep, Fifa is a lot worse than Live IMHO....

don't really know you Matthew, so I can't really comment on your departure....nice NCAA picks though

peace

[Ataraxia]

You're so gay Najira joking joking...

[Andreas Dahl]

Sad.
I never really got to know you of the forum, or even on the forum either for that matter, but I still think it's a damn shame that you're leaving. As a poster/mod I think you were very good, very very indeed; and your leaving will leave a bit of a void in the team that can't really be filled. It would be good if you sticked around though (like Jackal) and perhaps even make a comeback whenever you feel like it.
Oh yea, I agree with Jae, the Fifa series is worse than the Live series.


[edit] NJ, don't post just for the sakes of posting; e.g. posting a single emotion...

[iKe7in]

I think the best evidence that our community is the worst among EA is what occurs when someoen proposes new ideas or comments positively about the forum. Almost every single one of them here turn into attacks on dotorg or dotorg member, and almost every single one at dotorg turns into an attack on dotorg or a dotorg member. It's bullshit. The threads that are trying to be constructive turn into a mess of shitty jokes and insults, and eventually gets locked.

The rivalry is fucking stupid. Stealing ideas? Its not like anyone here or there has come up with something completely new. Look around. These 'new ideas' are a common theme on every mod site or sporting news site. The only difference is that they don't fuck up their sites with petty jackasses pointing fingers at everyone in sight. Its at the point now where guys are waiting for the other site to use a version of an idea from the other site just so they can call them on it. Andrew and Ben/David have to pass over good ideas just so they don't get ripped by the other site. Ridiculous. The whole point of having a community is sharing ideas. Andrew was hesitant to add a Work in Progress forum awhile back because dotorg had just introduced theirs a few days before, meanwhile basically every single game mod site has one. Did dotorg 'steal' the idea from those sites. No, its a common idea among the sites that makes the community run better.

I recently though the idea of combining the sites was a slim possibilty. Now I know for sure that there is no chance in hell. The day they combine will be the day that Yogi Stewart wins MVP. NLSC has the best forums, dotorg has the best patches, and 4th-quarter/nbafiles is the most member friendly imo. Combining them seems like common sense, but common sense isn't exactly an epidemic in this community.

Cambyman, we had a nice little run-in after i got added to the team. I said I was here for patching help, and maybe some portrait patches, and some more tutorials. You claimed I was here for something different when I said I probably wouldnt need to release patches here(which you read at dot fucking org!!!). I think we resolved it. That kinda bugged me so I didnt really like you. You seemed to have your own agenda, but you were still a good poster on other topics and made realy good arguments. I still respected you and you will be missed, good luck.

[Jackal]

Two words. (To start off with atleast.) : This sucks.

After losing Yohance, now you're leaving. Leave us to die won't you.

Nah, seriously man, it's been a blast the last couple of months. I can't really express how thankfull I am towards you. I'm not gratefull for just one thing, it's numerous things. Firstly, you can't even begin to imagine how thankfull I am to you for giving me enough courage and actually believing JCLive can be something special. It might not seem I'm interested in the site, but I am. This is why I'm especially grateful. You believed in the site, you gave me the courage to talk to Andrew.

On many different occassions you supported me on various issues where most other members just refrained from posting or just pretended not to know what's going on. Many thanks for all those times. Many thanks for telling me I fucked up whenever I did too. Jae too for that matter, he's said it before as well, not everything I do is correct and never has he refrained from telling me so. Since I'm talking about people who've told me I've been wrong instead of not saying anything about it, I'll throw David into the mix. These three guys, as different as they may seem, all great guys after you get to know them a bit. All three of them have helped me in some form or the other. Posting wise and appreciating the "community".

Anywho's, as I tend to do, I've rambled on for long enough, just hope I see you on MSN just as often and that you'll still give me critisism about JCLive and ofcourse help with improving with the NLSC anytime you have a chance to do so.

Perhaps in a few months time, or maybe a bit more than that, we can actually start discussing a meltation of the two larger NBA Live related websites.

Till then, take care.

[Ruff Ryder]

Sad.
I never really got to know you of the forum, or even on the forum either for that matter, but I still think it's a damn shame that you're leaving. As a poster/mod I think you were very good, very very indeed; and your leaving will leave a bit of a void in the team that can't really be filled. It would be good if you sticked around though (like Jackal) and perhaps even make a comeback whenever you feel like it.
Oh yea, I agree with Jae, the Fifa series is worse than the Live series.

Agreed for the most part. I say it's about time someone makes a post like this. This has become crazy, "OMG, you can't have rotating forum logos cuz .org has that!" Now, I don't really have any beef with .org, its just that some people there piss me off like crazy. People like Rip insult our intelligence.
It seems like all the morons that get banned there come over here-but that is completely irrelevent to the point. I was kinda thinking that the NLSC could host sites like 4th-Q or the Remix Team, but I wasn't at the time, expecting 4th-Q to get as big as it is now. Its forums are still in development, but the patchers are . It's kinda like the Western Conference vs. the Eastern Conference. One conference dominates for a while, then the power starts to seem to shift a little bit. In return the other conference makes some moves, etc. Like balance of powers or something. Its almost a damn monopoly and thats a shame.

Now I don't know wtf I just said.

[J@3]

I think the best evidence that our community is the worst among EA is what occurs when someoen proposes new ideas or comments positively about the forum. Almost every single one of them here turn into attacks on dotorg or dotorg member, and almost every single one at dotorg turns into an attack on dotorg or a dotorg member.

Go back to .org then

[COOLmac©]

see you around camby man(used to try the urban legend thing in the mirror...where i get to say your name 3 times.then you wont appear )
you were a great constructive disciplinarian for me...thanks

[iKe7in]

I think the best evidence that our community is the worst among EA is what occurs when someoen proposes new ideas or comments positively about the forum. Almost every single one of them here turn into attacks on dotorg or dotorg member, and almost every single one at dotorg turns into an attack on dotorg or a dotorg member.

Go back to .org then

I didn't mean the NLSC community is worst, I meant the Live community as a whole. I don't consider myself to be branded as a dotorger. I'm a team member here and a patcher/mod at 4th-quarter, so I don't understand your point. Really, there was no judgement on either site as being better in my post, so stop looking for every opportunity to slam dotorg you fucking child. Everyone, meet reason #1 why the Live sites will never combine. Jae, you might be a great mod and a respected poster, but your views on bettering the Live community are fucked.

[J@3]

Jae, you might be a great mod and a respected poster, but your views on bettering the Live community are fucked.

I haven't told anyone my views on bettering the Live community though? I've been specifically told by .org members that all they want to do is do things that are "good for the community". I stated that having "exclusive" patchers and posters is not good for the community. I really have no problem with you Kevin, you're an intelligent guy but in this case I really don't know what you're talking about.

[iKe7in]

I just kind of get the impression that you have too much of an 'us against them' mentality. I agree with you about the exclusive patchers (especially when only a few actually stil patch), but other than that, the two sites are essentially the same. I guess I went a little overboard there, sorry for that.

If for some reason hell did freeze over and the Live community united under one site, the best way to ensure success is to see what is already out ther and has worked well. www.mvpmods.com is easily the best EA mod site out there. The forums are extremely active, technical probelms are solved a few weeks after the game is released, there are a wide variety of patches and yet there are not that many player patches, the site hosts patches for its users, and its crew is top notch, as they both keep control of their enormous forums well, and have developed several patching tools to help the community. They are a shining example of what we could have.

[J@3]

I don't think it's really us against them, but I do think there's too many personalities that just aren't compatible as far as working together goes. Another site that's just merged is TheDugout and some other Championship Manager website, that'd gone really smoothly and their forums are now fantastic but I think in the case of the NLSC/.org I'm not sure if it could work, or if people would necessarily want it to happen considering both are thriving websites as they are. We'll see what happens, I hear that Live 05 isn't really as patchable as other Live games have been so hopefully that'll change next year and the patching scene will grow again.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Another site that's just merged is TheDugout and some other Championship Manager website, that'd gone really smoothly and their forums are now fantastic

Not really. The Dugout and FM gamer forums merged about a month or so back, and were doing nicely until they decided to host two different 'General Talk' sections' one for the members of each of the older forums. Then a week back the FMGamer off-topic section moved back to its former adress due to personality clashes, only to move back again into the united site a few days later.

As you see, there can never be true harmony when two different communities merge, whether in society or the Internet.

I am new here so I cannot be knowing much of this 'rivalry' that I hear is going on, but why are you making such a fuss over it, anyway? If you're happy with this forum as is, contributing and having fun,why should you care what some other forum's members do? Just stick to where you're feeling good, and let the morons burn, is what I like to say...

And CambyMan, I don't really understand why you're leaving. We had our little clashes, for fun mostly, and I think you have the spine and attitude to let some meaningless thing go, when it's better to do so. You're a Warrior man, don't give up on something you enjoy just because things haven't been going so well lately...

Peace.

[J@3]

Not really. The Dugout and FM gamer forums merged about a month or so back, and were doing nicely until they decided to host two different 'General Talk' sections' one for the members of each of the older forums. Then a week back the FMGamer off-topic section moved back to its former adress due to personality clashes, only to move back again into the united site a few days later.

there's a surprise, the Dugout off topic forum is drama central. Do you play CM dweaver?

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

I used to when I was younger. Now it's too time consuming, plus the FM 2005 is pretty addictive so I had to uninstall it.

And yes, the TTH forum is full of drama, and worst of all, British people. I don't know what happens to British guys who visit Internet forums, but their use of foul language is unparalleled, even by you Australians. I'm a member of the new FM forum, nicknamed 'The Mooner'.

[Jackal]

And CambyMan, I don't really understand why you're leaving. We had our little clashes, for fun mostly, and I think you have the spine and attitude to let some meaningless thing go, when it's better to do so. You're a Warrior man, don't give up on something you enjoy just because things haven't been going so well lately...

I don't think that's the reason he's leaving. The NLSC is actually doing well, so the leaving because it's not doing well reason just went out the window.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

The NLSC is actually doing well, so the leaving because it's not doing well reason just went out the window.

things haven't been going so well lately...

I said 'things', not NLSC... I meant the whole rivalry thing.

[Jackal]

Which makes even less sense given the rivalry "thing" has been going on for a long, long time. Suddenly he's gotten fed up of it? He's got thicker skin than that.

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Which makes even less sense given the rivalry "thing" has been going on for a long, long time. Suddenly he's gotten fed up of it? He's got thicker skin than that.

You are starting to sound increasingly British...

His reasons are his own, so he will act as he sees fit...

[Jackal]

His reasons are his own, so he will act as he sees fit...

You're beginning to scare me.

This is what you said:

don't give up on something you enjoy just because things haven't been going so well lately...

You insinuated he's quitting the forums because "things haven't been doing so well lately..."

After that, I said that probably isn't his reason for quitting. ("That" referring to "things haven't been going so well lately")

And then you respond with...

His reasons are his own, so he will act as he sees fit...

Anywho's, bottom line is this: I doubt he's quit because "things haven't been going so well lately".

Everything's been going fine, nothing that hasn't been happening before. In his honour,

[AlwaysWhat,NeverWhy]

Oh, brother...

If the CambyMan has anything more to add to his initial statement, I'm sure he'll be doing it soon.

In the end, his reasons ARE his own.

Peace.

[air gordon]

lol i'm really not observant.. i was asking jae if you really retired/made a retirement thread because i mentioned i had read something about you leaving in the "hall of fame" thread in the Nlsc iissues forum

you wanted this to be about the community instead of you, but sorry, i gotta at least pay some respect...

matthew's one of the few people i talk to from the nlsc community outisde of the forums. i really have no idea how that came to be but i'm glad i got to know him. he's got a good head on his shoulders and really knows his nba. he's one of the few posters that you could have a great discussion with and not take it personal. i'm still waiting for that thread where we have a debate that will go down in the books...

i should probably thank him (and jae) for suggesting me to become a mod for the nba section, even if i'm not doing anything different other then now i have to read the laker threads.

and since i'm a 'member' now, i guess i'm required to say something about this community thing:

it's difficult for me to make some comments about this whole community thing. i've been around for a little bit but i'm not really invovled or play the nba live game enough and not much of a gamer like i was before to know the whole storylines. lol i just post in the nba section, a very minute section of both sites but i could see there is some kind of anxiety betwewen the sites. i don't think there's some clear cut solution for whatever these problems are but i know it's a big mountain to climb.

no one is getting paid (unless i'm missing something) for their work put into this. and since the monetary reward is not there, i think it's natural for someone to want some other kind of recognition or at the least be competitive, possibly the roots of the these problems. also, this is an internet site- a lot gets lost in translation when you're not talking face to face with someone. who knows, maybe i'm way off here.

for me, i really have no problem with either site or the nba live community or the moderating. probably because i don't follow that behind the scene stuff or don't 'demand' that much from these sites. i'm guessing the more invovled you are and the more you 'demand' from the sites, the more problems you run into. i have enough dramas in my life, which is slowly disappating as i inch closer and closer to getting engaged.

anyway, good luck and thanks for the kind words, matthew. see you on MSN...

and good luck to the community and to the community leaders