A Petition for Change

[Donatello]

preface: After much debate, I chose to post this in Dynasty Issues rather than NLSC issues. If this was the incorrect choice, please feel free to move the topic.


Andrew and the NLSC community,

As you have no doubt read, quite a number of the Dynasty Posters on this forum are becoming a little bit frustrated with the lack of comments to their hard work, as well as the sheer number of dynasties that keep it hard to keep up with anything. We are truly drowning in Dynasties at the moment. While it is wonderful that so many people are enjoying Dynasty mode, it's just a becoming a bit taxing.

As an effort to try to enhance the Dynasty experience, I decided to open three distinct Dynasty sections on a different forum (LiveDynasty). Dynasty Issues (not for Dynasty Stories, but for general talk about the feature), Rookie Dynasty Stories (for beginning Dynasty Stories, or those that aren't updated as frequently), and Pro Dynasty Stories (for those Dynasty Posters who work long and hard to bring a quality dynasty to the table). This is so that it's easy to find the dynasty you're looking for- but it also promotes a higher quality of dynasties, as people will put more effort into their work for a desire to move up to "Pro" status. I personally like the system quite a bit, as has everyone else I've gotten feedback from. My only problem with this is that it takes away from the NLSC, whether that was the intention or not.

The purpose of these forum sections was not to take away from the NLSC, as the Series Center is my online home..hell, I was bored out of my mind when the forums were down for a few hours to move to the new server. But, it has become abundantly clear to me that if these sections on the LiveDynasty forum continue as an 'exclusive' feature, it won't kill the NLSC Dynasty Board, but it definitely won't be helping it.

The purpose of this petition is not to complain, whine, or bitch about not getting comments. The purpose is to try to help the NLSC become as strong as it can be. This is our request:

That the NLSC adopt the 3-Section format for Dynasties; General Issues, Rookie Stories, and Pro Stories (or a similar format).


We do realize that this would require a great deal of extra moderation, but we are willing to provide this help (if needed) in any way we can. I know personally, I spend so much time browsing these forums that it would be absolutely no problem- several of us feel this way, as much as we want this change made, we'd be willing to work for it.

I will be attaching a poll, but please feel free to leave your comments. Again, I want to stress that this is not to demean the NLSC, or to complain about it's format, it is just an honest request from honest members to improve upon it. This is also not a threat of boycott. We wish to thank you for any and all consideration on this matter.

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I agree with donatello. There has been alot of good dynasties going down as of late and it's mainly because either the lack of comments or the lack of time. When you take the time out to post a good dynasty, it helps for people to respond to it in a way that makes the dynaster feel good about posting the dynasty and makes them keep wanting to update. When you haev 2-3 dynasties added each day to the forum just makes it worse. I love the idea of the Rookie, Pro and dynasty issue thing. This dynasty forum is also filled with questions about the dynasty feature and that could be put in another thread and just have a thread for nothing but dynasties. As for the pro dynasties, we can have explanations (like on livedynasty) on what a pro dynasty really is and what a rookie dynasty is and the same for the rookie dynasty. I also browse the forums enough to become a mod for this particular section and I think I've been around the NLSC community long enough to become a mod on something that I think that really needs to be changed. Adding the threads won't do anything but add more to the site and I'm 99.9% sure that it won't subtract from the site IMO. It's just sometime when you take maybe an hour or two to do a recap and only get around 2 comments for it, makes people not want to update the dynasty no more. For one, I know it makes me mad so I'm not going to leave me out of it, but I know some other dynasters that would like more comments as well. You'll be surprised if you get alot of comments, a dynasty can improve just like that because they get alot of confidence in what their doing.

[Jing]

ditto man, get more organized
i think

[trubucksfan]

yeah i feel bad for not posting my dynasty here but when i gett one comment for every 2 updates i do its tough because i worked hard on it. i think seperate sections for people would really help promote the better dynasties and the solid dynasties in rookie will really stand out compared to all the other ones so it will be easy to see if they should be promoted.

[iKe7in]

I think the problem is that people who go to all this trouble don't realize that their dynasties aren't that interesting and no one actually reads them anyway. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't ever even go to the dynasty forum, let alone a single thread to read pages of details. If I want to get involved with a dynasty, I'll do my own, its much more interseting. So I don't think you should be surprised when you don't get any replies.

[trubucksfan]

lol, those hits dont show up their all by themselves

[Donatello]

Maybe this is a better way to promote understanding of this issue, Kevin....

There is the "Patch Requests", "Patching Issues", "NLSC Roster Patch Issues", and "Announcements" for patches.....I'm sure you wouldn't be too pleased if they were all jammed into one section, would you? It would be insane. Not saying that there is nearly as much to post about dynasties as patching, just giving an example.

[Wormy10]

I agree with Donatello and everyone else
Organization is alot better

[NNpF]

Interesting you brought this up, as you might have realized I have yet to start my dynasty and it is pretty much because I have seen very few helpful comments posted in dynasty threads. I myself visit the dynasty section very little.

I have NBA Live 2005 but it is for the PS2 I just bought with my B-day money, and I like my dynasties to be detailed and full of pictures so I will not do a PS2 dynasty.

However, if this plan goes through I probably will purchase NBA Live 2005 for the PC as well and then start a dynasty here.

So it's pretty obvious I voted yes, this was a good idea Donatello

[Mark.]

I think its a good idea, sorry Kevin but I think pleanty of people view the threads, but when people ask for some feedback they just stay silent.

I dont think this idea may solve all the problems as it may not encourage more posting but it will give us "Dynasty Authors" incentive to post even when there is no feedback.

I also think that if a person obtains "Pro" Status, they should have to maintain a certain level of quality etc to keep the "Pro" status.

My two cents

Good idea Donatello

[HonorGlow]

..I also vote that Cocobee's and Micchy Boy's dynasties have five sub-threads within their own Dynasty thread(I don't that's technically possible though)

[Andrew]

My concern is whether there's enough interest to warrant three seperate forums and whether they'll actually be used. That said, I'm not nixing the idea at all, I just want to discuss it a little more so I'm clear on what changes I would be making and what policies would be in place.

Based on your descriptions, I'm guessing that the different roles of each section would be somewhat like this:

Dynasty General: General comments about Dynasty, questions about certain features and functions, technical stuff such as DBF editing and so forth.

Rookie Stories: Dynasty Threads by newer members and/or less popular Dynasty threads.

Pro Stories: The well-known Dynasty crew and the most popular Dynasty threads.

I'm not against the idea, but I'm not sure there's call for two seperate stories sections - I'm also pretty much against discrimination. Who would be deciding if a thread was "worthy" or not? Also, the organisation would be pretty much the same as it is now. Would spreading the stories over three different forums really garner more attention or would it just complicate matters?

Again, I'm not shooting down the idea without considering it, just trying to iron out all the details before a decision is made.

[Donatello]

Well I am all for not hurting anyone's feelings as well.....and I don't think it's so much a matter of 'worthy' by quality- as that is a matter of opinion. We're just talking about those that are updated frequently with a fair amount of content. I don't think anyone who updates their dynasty once a week with "I played 5 games and won them, next up is the Grizzlies" is going to be offended-- I'm sure they know that they are just casually posting their dynasty.

As I'm typing this I can maybe see where the issue with that would lie. On a smaller forum, it was an easy system to implement, but on a scale this large that would be quite a task- perhaps it could be done on a voluntary system? I'm not sure if all members would go for that, due to the ego of our species, but that's something to discuss, at the very least.

Another idea to perhaps discuss is at least a split into two sections- Dynasty "General", as Andrew called it, and Dynasty Stories. I think that all conversation about Rookie/Pro separations aside, a split for two sections would be completely beneficial....

And, Andrew, I really appreciate your response, I was fearing something more negatively fueled...I should have known better .

[Micchy_boy]

yeah the 3 section about dynasty will be great but also a little complicated to manage esp on this big forum who not only about live 05 but about live series.

now the 2 section would the best for us dynasters, General and Dynasty Stories. that will not be much to ask. at least all topic will be much organize for us dynasters.

and if you need few more mod, i personnally nominate donatello and honorglow.

[Andrew]

No negativity here. I know I've got a bit of a reputation for not liking change, but I'm actually not opposed to it all. I'm just against change for the sake of making a change or lateral changes. If change is to be made, I prefer it to be for the better. But that's a whole another topic.

I'd be more inclined to split the section in two rather than three, Dynasty General Issues and Dynasty Stories, I think that would be less confusing and really promote the idea of Dynasty Threads. Perhaps we could then explore other ideas to increase traffic in Dynasty Stories.

[Donatello]

i think a split into two would work wonders for promoting quatlity dynasties as well. because for every new dynasty on the board, there are 4 or 5 new threads just discussing general dynasty issues. so a split down the middle (while not our original plan) would still be, and i quote my dear ninja turtles, "tubular".

[Andrew]

I'd be fine with that. But before we go ahead with a split, are there any more details or ideas that need to be discussed, say, for promoting the story threads?

[Donatello]

This is exciting.......but I'm not really sure what else would need to be done before a conversion.....What are your ideas? (anyone?)

The only idea that pops into my head for after the 'split' is perhaps inside of the Dynasty Stories thread, once a Dynasty reaches a certain threshold or something (number of views or replies), it could be stickied? Just an idea. I don't even know if I like that idea or not

[J@3]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If people want comments in their dynasty threads COME UP WITH SOME ORIGINAL IDEA'S. I do visit the Dynasty sections, but 70-80% of Dynasties follow the exact same, or very similar, guidelines. How many have this new thing with 8 or 9 posts in a row with "Team History" "League Standings" etc etc... I mean that would be excellent if 1 person thought of it and that person was doing it, but not every single person who starts a dynasty. The point I'm trying to make, is that if people want others to comment on what they do then give them something to comment on. No point making numerous comments in different story threads which are essentially the same as each other.

That being said, I like the 2 section split idea.

[[Q]]

I'm not sure if the correct terms to be used should be "Rookie" or "Pro" cuz I personally be offended if I was a rookie, but I think that the dynasty stories should be separated... No offense to you guys, cuz I know you guys work hard on these things, but I don't really come here looking to read about someone else's dynasty. but yeah it should be separate.

[cocobee]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If people want comments in their dynasty threads COME UP WITH SOME ORIGINAL IDEA'S. I do visit the Dynasty sections, but 70-80% of Dynasties follow the exact same, or very similar, guidelines.

Exactly. That's been my point of view for a long time. Once you do something in dynasty, people start doing the same damn thing--where's the creativity.But then they want credit or comments on there dynasty post when there dynasty looks excatly like the 2 dynasty threads on top of them.

Honestly, people have to start questioning why they post there dynasty. Is it for commercial baseed reasons or is it because they really want a dynasty. I've seen a lot of attention hogs who can't even keep a freaking dynasty for more than 2 seasons? What's the use? I didn't find anything wrong with the old style. You put your dynasty up and if people like it then they like it.

No disrespect, but I could care less what happens to the forum because I really don't have the time to worry about people posting. I was just going to move my dynasty to an enviroment that seemed more fitted since people not on this forum were responding to me. It just made sense. But if you're stopping your dynasty because of lack of comments--then you might want to question your intent.

Jae has struck the nail on the head. Keep your dynasty fresh and don't make it look like anybody elses? So much shit has been around the dynasty forum except for making your dynasties better. We are having votes for the best dynasty-I mean C'mon. That's nothing but an ego boost-which has nothing to do with having a better dynasty?

It's scary to even be innovative because it'll get duplicated right after you, then that person wants attention like he made the shit up. It can be very dishearting. But I don't cry over it, I just try to come up with newer shit.

BTW--again, wasn't this the reason you guys came up with livedynasty.com? You're telling me you want people to post dynasties on both forums? What would be the benefit of having both forums identical? To spread it out? Spread what out? It's called extra work for the same audience base. Atleast you guys had a specific audience. Why didn't you wait to see if it worked on your forums first before you push your unproven ideas off to Andrew. I liek the energy, but I feel it's directed the wrong way? Why not make a post on how to add rookies? Something we need instead of making everything a competition.

Just my 2 cents. Drew, Do whatcha like man.

[J@3]

It's scary to even be innovative because it'll get duplicated right after you, then that person wants attention like he made the shit up.

EXACTLY! ... that's absolutely what happens. Not with the guys who do the copying to begin with, but the guys who create the idea... they just get disheartened and don't want to bother anymore. I know from experience (in some internet based thing I used to do) that if people just take your idea's, no matter who it is it's not a compliment, it's annoying. I mean, I don't even know who originated the new Dynasty style with the team history and stuff, but I do know 90% of the stuff Cocobee thought up has been stolen at some point by someone else. I mean come on people, surely at least one person can create an original idea. And instead of stealing that idea, why don't people applaud it? At least then you'd get your thread replies.

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I'm glad the idea was issued by donatello. As for having the same looking dynasties, people wouldn't even respond after someone asks them what are they doing wrong in their dynasty for people not to respond. Since everybody is doing the same thing, who is going to take the time out to do something new that will take double the time they already do to have a dynasty that people never respond to anyway? Like I said before, it's alot of ideas I can have, but lack of technology experience on stuff such as photoshop keeps me from doing it. If someone is more experience in photoshop than me and can come up with more ideas because that person is more experienced with technology then of course he is going to have alot more ideas. You shouldn't judge people who don't always have the tools to make their dynasty better and they use what they have. After having a regular format from like last year dynasty, nobody really wasn't that excited about it anyway then after I saw how many people had the "new" format I saw people responding and I decided to switch to the new format. I think people should start helping people out in the dynasties to help them coming up with more ideas by actually giving the person suggestions in their thread instead of saying the same stuff all the time about the dynasty. How would some people know that their dynasty needs a change when nobody comes out and say what your doing wrong or how to make it better? If someone has an idea that they can't use, then why not try to help that person out with the idea to help the other people learn how to use different tools. I know a few people that would help other people with their dynasties with different things such as revlin making that commercial on the video and if I'm not mistaken, he helped cocobee do something to help make his videos for his all-star weekend.

EDIT: I will also like to add that if your playing 82 games, play every game and give a solid update each time you play it, it will take awhile to finish a season. It's not THAT easy to finish a 82 game season when you play your games. If I could sim most of the game and like play in the 4th quarter, I wouldn't be able to really write recaps (which is my best asset to a dynasty). My recaps wouldn't be that good, because I wouldn't know what happened in the other quarters I played. So that would take away from something that I do well. That's why its important to me that I get some comments that will keep me going in my dynasty because it takes me awhile to play 12 min quarters and update each time. I remember last year when 04 first came out, take a look at those dynasties back then. I remember when I had no pics at all and my recaps made my dynasty good. Cocobee was using videos to recap his games and alot of people were doing fantasy draft. Now everything has changed to where everybody is so picky about what they really look at in a dynasty.

[Seonadancing]

I guess it's good that we seperate it to Dynasty Stories and General Dynasty Questions.

Cocobee is right about the intent of Dynasty story tellers. My intent is not to show off, nor get attention for what i'm writing. It's just something i do so i can go back to what i've written a month ago and look back to what happened with my Dynasty during that time. Good feedback is certainly encouraging but then we need to do something just because we like doing it and not because we seek praises from people. Why should everything be a competition right? Sometimes having fun is better.

Don't let lack of comments kill your Dynasty. Do it because you love the game and you like what you're doing.

[-BHZMAFIA-]

I guess it's good that we seperate it to Dynasty Stories and General Dynasty Questions.

Cocobee is right about the intent of Dynasty story tellers. My intent is not to show off, nor get attention for what i'm writing. It's just something i do so i can go back to what i've written a month ago and look back to what happened with my Dynasty during that time. Good feedback is certainly encouraging but then we need to do something just because we like doing it and not because we seek praises from people. Why should everything be a competition right? Sometimes having fun is better.

Don't let lack of comments kill your Dynasty. Do it because you love the game and you like what you're doing.

I agree with you, but what's really the point of posting your dynasty on a forum if you doing it just to be doing it. It's fun to do it, but either way it seems that if you get hardly any recognition for posting it won't make things better. Taking about two hours out of your day to post a dynasty (even though you like to do it) kinda makes you feel bad when nobody responds to it and if you don't like the dynasty then why not say some things that can help make the dynasty better?