What takes more skill? Rap or Rock?

[Riot]

I didn't say that, the RAPPERS say that. I DONT SAY THAT...

It's cool though because I got homies in high places.

[J@3]

That music spoke to my inner most being as it continues to do today, even at the ripe ol' age of 30. The funniy thing about both artforms is how there is sort of a civil war within both. For instance in Rock it seems like you're not a "real" fan if you like Good Charlotte, Blink 182 or Creed. In Hip Hop, "real" Hip hop heads despise 50 Cent, Ja Rule and any other commercial act. Why?

I'm not one of those people that subscribe to the theory that if you listen to a certain artist you're not a real fan. I mean, there's Good Charlotte songs I like, same as Blink 182, Creed and whatever other constantly disrespected band that's around. Same goes for rap, the point I was trying to make however is that you can't deny certain people just because they don't fit into the "respectable" category. Everyone says "well 50 Cent and Nelly aren't rappers, they're musical creators of the almost-rap variety" or some other vague thing... basically implying that they don't belong in their category because they're not respectable. Rock fans wouldn't deny people like Good Charlotte or whatever.

Look, there's enough room for all of us to live and love. I'll never feel rock the way you do Jae but I'd never say your feelings or the artform you love are foolish. Catch my drift?

I know what you mean, and you're right. I honestly can't see the problem with this thread though. I mean sure people are putting down other peoples likes and dislikes, but no one's getting hurt and nothing's getting personal. Unless someone's name is Rap they've got no reason to get pissed off about it. End of the day, we're all still friends and nothing someone says about our musical tastes is going to do enough damage that people would start hating each other.

On another note, as you mentioned you're 30 years old so I guess it's kinda guaranteed that you're going to be more mature than most of us, that being said there's probably 3 year olds with more maturity than some people at the NLSC but that's another thread... I suppose it's just our way of discussing that we'd put down the other forms of music, I mean in debating they say you shouldn't do that but the day some old fat guy in a business suit sits down and starts grading all of our threads is the day I'll start following the rules of debating Your points are valid though, and to be honest this thread could potentially go on for weeks.

Holy shit I've just noticed this is still on topic

[Matt]

Big L (deceased) - Who?

Big L was a legend in New York. Too bad he got killed He was one of few rappers that could effctively deliver punchlines in songs...in particular i like this one "Ask Beavis I get nothing Butt Head" ehehe. He also made a song with Pac called "Deadly Combination"

R.I.P

more respectable artists....Common, Black Thought, Big Pun, AZ, old Snoop Dogg

If your name is Jae, do not read what I'm writing below










3 Days till the release of Talib Kweli's "Beautiful Struggle"....can't wait This stuff is gonna be excellent!!!

[John-John Joe]

That music spoke to my inner most being as it continues to do today, even at the ripe ol' age of 30. The funniy thing about both artforms is how there is sort of a civil war within both. For instance in Rock it seems like you're not a "real" fan if you like Good Charlotte, Blink 182 or Creed. In Hip Hop, "real" Hip hop heads despise 50 Cent, Ja Rule and any other commercial act. Why?

I'm not one of those people that subscribe to the theory that if you listen to a certain artist you're not a real fan. I mean, there's Good Charlotte songs I like, same as Blink 182, Creed and whatever other constantly disrespected band that's around. Same goes for rap, the point I was trying to make however is that you can't deny certain people just because they don't fit into the "respectable" category. Everyone says "well 50 Cent and Nelly aren't rappers, they're musical creators of the almost-rap variety" or some other vague thing... basically implying that they don't belong in their category because they're not respectable. Rock fans wouldn't deny people like Good Charlotte or whatever.

Look, there's enough room for all of us to live and love. I'll never feel rock the way you do Jae but I'd never say your feelings or the artform you love are foolish. Catch my drift?

I know what you mean, and you're right. I honestly can't see the problem with this thread though. I mean sure people are putting down other peoples likes and dislikes, but no one's getting hurt and nothing's getting personal. Unless someone's name is Rap they've got no reason to get pissed off about it. End of the day, we're all still friends and nothing someone says about our musical tastes is going to do enough damage that people would start hating each other.

On another note, as you mentioned you're 30 years old so I guess it's kinda guaranteed that you're going to be more mature than most of us, that being said there's probably 3 year olds with more maturity than some people at the NLSC but that's another thread... I suppose it's just our way of discussing that we'd put down the other forms of music, I mean in debating they say you shouldn't do that but the day some old fat guy in a business suit sits down and starts grading all of our threads is the day I'll start following the rules of debating Your points are valid though, and to be honest this thread could potentially go on for weeks.

Holy shit I've just noticed this is still on topic

Valid points Jae, you're right. Why should I impose my views on a totally harmless thread? I guess I'm a "tolerance" fanatic, I'll get off my soapbox (for now)

[John-John Joe]

Big L (deceased) - Who?

Big L was a legend in New York. Too bad he got killed He was one of few rappers that could effctively deliver punchlines in songs...in particular i like this one "Ask Beavis I get nothing Butt Head" ehehe. He also made a song with Pac called "Deadly Combination"

R.I.P

more respectable artists....Common, Black Thought, Big Pun, AZ, old Snoop Dogg

If your name is Jae, do not read what I'm writing below

3 Days till the release of Talib Kweli's "Beautiful Struggle"....can't wait This stuff is gonna be excellent!!!

Yes sir, Talib's new joint is going to be a lovely thing. As far as Big L goes, did y'all know his first appearance on wax was in 1990? One million dollars to the person who can name the artist whose song he first appeared on. Need a hint? Think "DITC."

One of my favorite Big L lines from back in the days: "Chicks stick to my dick like magnets on refridgerators"

[Jay-Peso]

IMO, rap takes more skill but lately it's been kind of computer gizmo crap.

IDK about rap anymore but eminem still owns.

[Filip]

I see it like this: It's more difficult to play guitar like Slash than rap like Eminem.

[GloveGuy]

IMO, rap takes more skill but lately it's been kind of computer gizmo crap.

IDK about rap anymore but eminem still owns.

I'm guessing you haven't heard "Just Lose It", the first single to his upcoming album, Encore. It's trash. Even worse and more poppy than "My Name Is", "Real Slim Shady", and "Without Me".

[XianeX]

IMO, rap takes more skill but lately it's been kind of computer gizmo crap.

IDK about rap anymore but eminem still owns.

I'm guessing you haven't heard "Just Lose It", the first single to his upcoming album, Encore. It's trash. Even worse and more poppy than "My Name Is", "Real Slim Shady", and "Without Me".

That made me sick. I heard rumors that it was a fake rip but if it's real, then it's utter and total trash.

[Null17]

Rock.

2pac etc, great rappers, i respect them, all these other turds that seem to think that talking about bitches and hoes is good rapping can go fuck themselves

took the words right out of my mouth...err i mean fingers, whatever...

[Colin]

I was in Montreal for my brothers wedding on the weekend so sorry this is late. I thought about this about 2 seconds after I left the computer and it relates to another point. Jowe mentioned that rap relies on samples a lot. Yes it does, but that's because rap is a lyrical music, whereas rock is a insturmental music. Then Jae says that I can't name multiple people from groups and that's it's like naming everyone in a band. It's not because you can't just take artists from rock bands and have them release albums. A drummer won't release an album of nothing but drumming because that's just silly, the same way a guitarist doesn't usually just play a guitar for an hour without vocals and release it. However having a rapper release a solo album makes sense because with any member of a group they can release a solo album that encompasses all aspects of rap.

I mostly just used the group names there so people recognize the individual and less-used name more. Everyone there except MC Ren, Chuch D, the Mobb guys, and maybe Q-Tip have released solo albums. That way people who aren't big fans, ie. the rock fans, know who I'm talking about. And Guru is the only MC in Gang Starr like I mentioend before.

Comments of yours I understand:
Biggie (talks about 'bitches and hoes') - Yes he does, but it's not just simple stuff like "This girl sucked my dick/then my whole clique" or w/e it's very well built. His material was average. But if you're only thinking about material why downgrade Mos Def and Chuck D? More later.
Meth - (talks about getting high) - His material has gone down hill since early Wu albums and I'll give you that.

Comments that (IMO) suck
MC Ren - - I always thought he was at least as good as Ice Cube, I love his verse on 'Set it Off'
Kurtis Blow - - He was an original and an innovater in hip-hop, created the best basketball song in history...and b'ah it's useless, you even laughed. I think he's good.
Q-Tip - (sucks big time) - The Low-End Theory is one of the best albums in hip-hop history and Q was leading the way with well built rhymes that had good subject matter. He also produced most of it if I'm not mistaken.
Chuck D - (another group member, hip-hop or rap?) - Hip-hop or rap? Are you sure you listened to rap? This is in absolutley no way not rap. Rapping about society consciouos(sp?) material (Fight the Power) to a DJ scratching a nice beat is the essence of rap.
Cormega - (sucks ) - His verses are as well constructed as a Nas or Biggie verse and comes at it with a smooth, slow flow almost Rakim like. He hasn't had very good production behind him though.
Rakim - (decent not great) - Excuse me? He is the best verse constructor in the history of hip-hop. I have never heard a bad song, or even a bad verse, come from this man's mouth. He also had Eric B. giving him amazing beats. If you haven't listened to Paid In Full (the album, not just the song) in full you shouldn't comment on him.
Mos Def - (Rubbish) - I'm tired this will be quick. A very relaxing flow that talks about social and political issues (What's Beef?, Mathematics) might get a little too 'sensitive' for your liking.

I figure you don't like those guys because judging by the fact you only give NWA, Scarface, and sort of Pac a thumbs up, you like harder, more 'gangsta' rap with more gun/crack talk. Ever listened to M.O.P.?

My favourite rap line right now (even though it's dissing Nas) is when Cormega raps on 'The Realest' off the album 'Hustler/Rapper' - 'Nas wouldn't even pump a Reebok'

[J@3]

Then Jae says that I can't name multiple people from groups and that's it's like naming everyone in a band. It's not because you can't just take artists from rock bands and have them release albums. A drummer won't release an album of nothing but drumming because that's just silly,

By that reasoning I could list Nirvana, then each other group Dave Grohl's been involved in ... and believe me there's alot of them.

I'll go through that list of comments that suck and elaborate...

MC Ren: Don't get me wrong I like him, I just wouldn't list him as one of the best rappers around.

Kurtis Blow: The laugh was relating to his last name, I don't know who he is.

Q-Tip: No apologies, I just can't stand him.

Chuck D: How many different "essences" can rap have?

Cormega: Well constructed verses? Wow give him legend status right now! He's good, but I don't see anything he does that makes him particularly special.

Rakim: Maybe you're listening to the wrong songs.

Mos Def: Isn't he an actor now?


I have listened to M.O.P... the way I look at rap, is if it's going to be about bitches and money at least make it somewhat entertaining. I'm not black, I'm not struggling through life so why do I want to hear someone rambling on about their life story?

Another thing, alot of rappers now are talking about politics re: George Bush etc, again, I'm an Australian... this does not affect me. I could understand an American (or Canadian for that matter) being able to relate to whatever they're saying but I can't, so if I ever listen to rap I only listen to stuff that entertains me... not this moral high ground work that people think is God-like.

[Colin]

By that reasoning I could list Nirvana, then each other group Dave Grohl's been involved in ... and believe me there's alot of them.

Go ahead, I think that' perfectly fine. Nirvana and Foo Fighters come to mind and they're both great. I don't like Nirvana though, just FF.

I'll go through that list of comments that suck and elaborate...

MC Ren: Don't get me wrong I like him, I just wouldn't list him as one of the best rappers around.

Kurtis Blow: The laugh was relating to his last name, I don't know who he is.

Q-Tip: No apologies, I just can't stand him.

Chuck D: How many different "essences" can rap have?

Cormega: Well constructed verses? Wow give him legend status right now! He's good, but I don't see anything he does that makes him particularly special.

Rakim: Maybe you're listening to the wrong songs.

Mos Def: Isn't he an actor now?

I think Ren is tied for best MC in one of the best groups ever so I put him up high. OK with Kurt, he stopped releasing albums before I was born so a bunch of people don't know of him. Ok if you can't stnad Q-Tip I can't stand guys like Big Pun and KRS-1 (both of whom should be on that list instead of Kurt and either Flash, Cube, or Ren ) but you should be able to recognize he's talented. About Chuck D and essences of rap. The 'essences' of rap i speak of are, good material, good rhymes, a DJ on the turntables, and not following the status quo of the industry. Or not succumbing to becoming a 'studio thug' if you're not. The Canadian rapper K-OS openly raps about how he came from the suburbs, doesn't have a crew, and talks to his dad everyday. Instead of telling everyone all kinds of fake shit *cough50cough.* Well-constructed verses = complex rhymes using all kinds of literary devices. Like in the rhyme I posted he's suggesting that Nas doesn't come near guns without saying anything that would get censored. IMO his weanknesses are not being consistent throughout songs, and the production he has behind him. Some songs are absolutely amazing (Tony/Montana) and some are below average (almost all of his songs with that piece of shit Dona.) And what you think about my opinion on Rakim is what I think about your opinion.

One thing I want to point out. It seems that when rock fans listen to songs the first thing they listen for is the music/beat, while rap fans listen for lyrics right away. I thought that up when me and a guy I met on vacation switched CD players. I listened to an 'awesome song by Metallica' while he listened to 'Kick in the Door' by Biggie. First thing he says when the songs over: "Does the beat ever change, or does it just loop for the whole verse?" When I first heard the song I didn't even notice that. I was too enthralled by Biggie's wordplay. Whereas I heard that same old Metallica sound with this guy 'singing' about some stupid shit.

And, yes they both require talent. I made the point on the .org forums a while back that Biggie or Pac wouldn't be able to write a song like Smells Like Teen Spirit (a song I hate.) And Kurt Cobain or Dave Groehl or whoever couldn't write a good rap verse.

Edit: I posted this then immediatly saw Mos Def in the Jae quote and realized I forgot to write about him. Yes he does act, but he has another solo album coming out at around the same time as Kweli's (ahhhh the devil) new album. And there's nothing wrong with being able to do both. If it's anything like Black on Both Sides I'll be happy.

[Matt]

funny thing is that Kweli's album has a few rock beats and Mos Def has a song on his new album with a rock beat too. Personally I don't like it (the Mos Def one is good though) but the lyrics are too good not to listen to