Shady's NBA 2K19 Simulation Sliders v4.0 2019 REVAMP **3/25

Hey Shady! Great Work again! Much appreciation for the effort. I always use your Sliders.

I also looked into Dee4Three's Sliders. Seems great too.

viewtopic.php?f=240&t=106212

Do you think you can use his sliders too? Maybe Combine with yours?

I've seen Dee's work and I think he's doing a heck of a job. I have some player movement sliders that I've been working on since before launch but I just didn't have them ready....they will be ready 9/24 so stay tuned for those I think you guys will be impressed with how well the game plays.

So...the CPU 3 point shooting out of the box has been atrocious for 3 years straight now.

I guess I never noticed before. The last couple of years I usually waited for your first "official" set to start playing. This year I jumped right in because frankly there isn't much else to play right now. I've made a couple slider tweaks for now to make my experience a little better but definitely will be looking forward to your next release.

Oh and just for kicks and giggles I tried User Timing with the shot meter turned off, thinking maybe it's significantly changed since the last time I used it many years ago. But it hasn't changed, it's so easy it's laughable. I was shooting 71% from 3, even a couple D rated 3 point shooters on my team sank some. I quit the game at halftime because I felt dirty like I was cheating.

So...the CPU 3 point shooting out of the box has been atrocious for 3 years straight now.

I guess I never noticed before. The last couple of years I usually waited for your first "official" set to start playing. This year I jumped right in because frankly there isn't much else to play right now. I've made a couple slider tweaks for now to make my experience a little better but definitely will be looking forward to your next release.

Oh and just for kicks and giggles I tried User Timing with the shot meter turned off, thinking maybe it's significantly changed since the last time I used it many years ago. But it hasn't changed, it's so easy it's laughable. I was shooting 71% from 3, even a couple D rated 3 point shooters on my team sank some. I quit the game at halftime because I felt dirty like I was cheating.

And I feel dirty allowing the game to tell me if a shot is going to go in or not, and it not mattering how the shot is released.

So, it's a matter of preference. And, I doubt you shot that percentage with the shot meter off, on higher difficulty, especially with D rated shooters. However, if you would like to demonstrate with a gameplay video, I'm all eyes and ears.

Also, in MY OPINION real player % would be the equivalent of you playing a baseball game, and it not mattering when you swung the bat, or how you made contact with the ball, it would be a hit based on the players batting average. So, you could swing extremely late, but if any portion of the bat made contact with the ball, it would go by that percentage.

And actually, a ton of people use user timing. And prefer it for some of the reasons I've stated, including having control of your own destiny. And, many feel cheap like myself using Real Player %.

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-basketball/923513-do-more-ppl-play-2k18-real-shooting-user-timing-3.html

And this is a great summary of what I am talking about. As he states "But of the two options, user timing requires more skill and knowledge of your team. With user timing you have to not only take a good shot for that player, you also have to shoot right with him. So to me the difference between the two options is that one requires knowing shot releases and one does not."



https://www.coach2k.com/2014/07/should-i-use-user-timing-or-real-player.html

Coach2K


NBA2K Hall Of Fame Player



Friday, July 4, 2014




Should I Use User Timing Or Real Player % In NBA2K?



In the game settings menu, there's an option for "Shooting Type". You can choose from one of two options. The first is "User Timing" and the other choice is "Real Player %". I've noticed there's some confusion on how I think these two settings work and which one is better for you to use.

Option #1 - User Timing

The default option is user timing. Each player in the league has his own shooting release. Paul George will have a different release than CJ Watson who will have a different release than David West. Because of this, you'll have to know each player's release (and how much space they need) in order to be effective with them. Some releases are easier to learn than others.




Each release can either be very early, early, excellent, late or very late. You goal is to get an excellent release on every shot you take. But even if you do get an excellent release, it doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to go in. It also doesn't mean that a shot release that wasn't excellent won't go in either. Those can go in even if not perfectly timed.

How likely that is will depend on the difficulty level and sliders you are using and whether it was a good shot, who was guarding you, whether your player has the ability to hit shots from there, the game situation and the defensive scheme employed at the time.

Option #2 - Real Player %

The other option is real player percentage. What this does is remove shooting releases from the equation. Because of that you can shoot the same with each player. You just shoot, release and not worry about timing. Each player's unique release point is no longer a factor, it's up to the percentages.

The other things are still important and still effect the shot. The difficulty, sliders used, the defense, shot selection and who is guarding you all come into play.

Which Shooting Type Should I Use?

The first problem I see with these two choices is how they are named. Because they named one shooting type by putting the word "real" in it, it gives the impression that it will provide more realistic shooting percentages and therefore must be better and even more challenging. Guys that stake their claim to sim basketball often feel it's more sim to use real player percentage because of that.

One of the other reasons that guys gravitate to that option is because they have played guys in quick match and have been torched. They've assumed that this is because his opponent knows the releases and all there is to it is getting an excellent release and the shots go in. While it's true to some degree, it's not the only factor.

The biggest factor is taking good shots. No matter what option you choose, good shots go in. What a good shot is - is debatable. Players often equate open shots as good shots and they aren't always good shots even though they can be.

But of the two options, user timing requires more skill and knowledge of your team. With user timing you have to not only take a good shot for that player, you also have to shoot right with him. So to me the difference between the two options is that one requires knowing shot releases and one does not.

Of the two options, I feel user timing is harder not easier and that's why I recommend it. Also, if you play users online, the only option is user timing. It makes sense to make your skills portable from mode to mode.

To me, I think using user timing also makes the game more sim because I have to shoot different with each player instead of just hitting a button and not worrying about it. It also makes the game more interesting if I know I've got 12 unique players to learn how to shoot with.

Keep The Focus On Taking Good Shots

I've shot a high percentage (over 70% on 12 minute quarters, hall of fame difficulty and simulation sliders) in games using user timing and also in games where I have used real player percentage. To me the over riding factor is taking good shots. If you do that, you will do well.

What's a good shot? Well that's going to depend. Only time spent playing with your team in tons of situations will tell you what a good shot is for each player on your team. You have to recognize each players unique abilities and apply that to the game at hand based on the defense being played, who is on the floor and the game situation.

Which Do You Use?

How do you feel about these two choices and which do you use? Let me know in the comments.

A lot of others agree with me:

First of all I always prefer user timing. It's a huge part of the gameplay and one that makes you feel in control of the most satisfying joy in basketball: making a bucket.

In general, both use player attributes and ratings. These include wide open, contested, fading away etc.

On Realfg%, timing the shot release doesn't matter. It always uses the exact player rating for the situations described above.

On Timing, they get slightly altered and boosted or decreased based on if you are late or early etc. It works well and percentages seem to add up realistically. To me it gives just enough of user skill input to make it fun, while staying realistic.

In my experience, only "excellent" timing and wide open (which is hard to do regularly) means a make every time.

I always felt like I was getting cheated by using Real FG% for some reason.

I'm sure I wasn't, just felt that way to me. Like in the back of my mind after I missed a wide open shot I'd say "Real FG% screwed me there!"

So relax. Your way isn't better, it doesn't require more skill, and in my opinion it requires less (And others opinions). Enjoy the sliders and the way you play, but don't make stuff up.

So relax

This coming from the dude who acting all salty and offended because I tried his way and it was too easy to score. Skill or not put aside, it's so much easier to score it's ridiculous. At least with Real Player % you can get some realistic statistics because the RNG will never let you shoot too high.

If I didn't want to challenge myself I'd use User Timing, but unfortunately this game is too arcade by default and I like to have a challenge. It's why I come here for sliders that improve the realism of the game. I don't want to shoot 60-80%, I want to shoot 35-45% even if that means missing a shot I probably shouldn't once in a while.

As I've said 3x now, User Timing or Real Player % I release my shots at the apex naturally, it's why I was able to go straight into User Timing and dominate. So your argument of it not mattering when the shot is released is irrelevant because I'm still releasing the shot in a natural shooting form. The RNG factor of Real Player % makes the shots harder to hit, no matter the situation therefore it is the more difficult way of taking shots and results in the more realistic percentages which in my book is a double win.

I'm done dealing with you, at this point I'm convinced you're either a troll or just a very stubborn individual that is the "my way or the highway" type. I don't debate with brick walls.

So relax

This coming from the dude who acting all salty and offended because I tried his way and it was too easy to score. Skill or not put aside, it's so much easier to score it's ridiculous. At least with Real Player % you can get some realistic statistics because the RNG will never let you shoot too high.

If I didn't want to challenge myself I'd use User Timing, but unfortunately this game is too arcade by default and I like to have a challenge. It's why I come here for sliders that improve the realism of the game. I don't want to shoot 60-80%, I want to shoot 35-45% even if that means missing a shot I probably shouldn't once in a while.

As I've said 3x now, User Timing or Real Player % I release my shots at the apex naturally, it's why I was able to go straight into User Timing and dominate. So your argument of it not mattering when the shot is released is irrelevant because I'm still releasing the shot in a natural shooting form. The RNG factor of Real Player % makes the shots harder to hit, no matter the situation therefore it is the more difficult way of taking shots and results in the more realistic percentages which in my book is a double win.

I'm done dealing with you, at this point I'm convinced you're either a troll or just a very stubborn individual that is the "my way or the highway" type. I don't debate with brick walls.

It's totally valid, and 2K PROS also state user timing takes more skill. Stating you try and get a good release every time anyway doesn't mean you do, the game is still deciding your outcome no matter how you release it.

You can say it creates more sim stats (which works for ShadyMikes sliders) but you can't state it takes more skill.

Hopefully you read the whole breakdown above from a pro 2k player, a lot of people feel the same eay.

Also, timing on layups is in 2K19 and was in 2K17. So now it also doesn't matter how you release it around the hoop when doing real player %. You could accidently double tap the button, flick it, shoot it on the way down as you wait for a shot blocker to pass you by, etc, and it doesn't matter. With user timing, you not only have to watch the defense in the paint/coming at you, but you also have to make sure you release your layup/shot around the rim right.

I stand by my original post, more skill is needed for user timing. Certainly not trolling, considering how active I am on the forums and in different threads, and considering I've supplied plenty of reasons and backup for my claims.

I mentioned real player % at the beginning of this thread because I couldn't comprehend how someone would want to take that shortcut with the gameplay, other than if they were just shooting for sim stats. Glad I brought it up.

And FYI, "coach 2K" who did that breakdown represents 2K Pacers in the 2KLeague. He's a pro. I've seen other pros state it takes more skill as well. I agree with them.

Yea idk I think the whole shot meter green release thing is cheese. I guess you can say it takes more skill I really don't know...but what I do know is shot stick timing is easy AS HELL on default sliders and it has been FOR YEARS so I don't get the skill argument literally at all.....as for the pro guys I think there's a reason they are pro's at a video game and not pros at actual basketball lol. I play basketball and honestly at no point have I thought about the "release" of my jumper.....I'm more focused on keeping my elbow in and my follow through.....Steph Curry doesn't miss a jumper because his release was "very early" lol guys can shoot their form perfectly and a ball can rim out or something and I think real shooting % reflects that very well.

EDIT: And I for one think "proo" 2K players should literally be the last people on this planet we should be asking about what's sim LOL

Yea idk I think the whole shot meter green release thing is cheese. I guess you can say it takes more skill I really don't know...but what I do know is shot stick timing is easy AS HELL on default sliders and it has been FOR YEARS so I don't get the skill argument literally at all.....as for the pro guys I think there's a reason they are pro's at a video game and not pros at actual basketball lol. I play basketball and honestly at no point have I thought about the "release" of my jumper.....I'm more focused on keeping my elbow in and my follow through.....Steph Curry doesn't miss a jumper because his release was "very early" lol guys can shoot their form perfectly and a ball can rim out or something and I think real shooting % reflects that very well.

EDIT: And I for one think "proo" 2K players should literally be the last people on this planet we should be asking about what's sim LOL

Not at one point as a real basketball player have you thought about the "release" of your jumper?....

C'mon man.... we always think about the release of our shots. A consistent release/release point is critical to being a consistent shooter. If you indeed actually play basketball, you absolutely care/think about your release point. I have played basketball all my life and I always try to time my shot the same/release the same, or at the same point. So that can't be taken seriously.

And I said that I play on higher levels than pro, and I don't use the shot meter. And again, I am not the only person who thinks it takes more skill, a lot of people do. It's not "Cheese" in the least, and you have to know where the defense is, how much space you have, how good the shooters are, AND when to time the shot/layup.

You guys can do what you want with the sliders, but lets be real in here. It's honestly a fact that user timing takes more focus and skill than real player percentage, as in my example, you control no part of the shooting motion involvement on real player %. Back to me example about release point, you could technically drive the lane on a layup, and double tap the button or hang in the air to avoid being blocked, resulting in a wild shot towards the rim, and the release point (Which would be crap) woulldn't even matter.

Your sliders may produce more sim results stat wise, but they are absolutely not for "More skilled" players when it comes to shooting/layups. You can prefer it, but don't be unrealistic.

This is me shooting years back. My release is the same every single time, its my form, my rhythm. When I shoot, I try and get the same RELEASE every time, including release point. And yes, it's something you practice AND think about. And by the way, IF I release it incorrectly (Too fast without the proper roll, or on the way down) I have a MUCH lower chance of hitting my shot. That is real basketball, and thats why I prefer user timing. You have to time the players shot just like you do in real life, and you have to time layups just like in real life. And, if you time them properly, you have a better chance of making the shot. That is not debatable, that is fact.

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You see guys like Steph release the ball at all different points all the time to get the shot off quicker based on the level of defense so we're going to disagree heavily there, I watched Iverson for years hang in the air and wait until the last second to lay the ball in so we're going to disagree there as well.

You see guys like Steph release the ball at all different points all the time to get the shot off quicker based on the level of defense so we're going to disagree heavily there, I watched Iverson for years hang in the air and wait until the last second to lay the ball in so we're going to disagree there as well.

You just used two of the greatest scorers of all time. And Steph talks about his release and release point in interviews and in his tutorials on youtube. Just because he is off balance doesn't mean his release point changes on most of his shots, or that they don't have a lower chance of going in. Players hit adjusted shots, but the % chance of it going in goes down if the release isn't right. Again, that's not debatable.

And not to be a jerk, but I question if you have ever played, or ever played seriously, considering you said you never thought about your release in BASKETBALL. You can't say "I've seen this guy hit at a different release point" and automatically say that the % is the same as his standard release point. That makes absolutley no sense. Tough shots go in, but the % on tough shots and shots not released properly is LOWER.

You see guys like Steph release the ball at all different points all the time to get the shot off quicker based on the level of defense so we're going to disagree heavily there, I watched Iverson for years hang in the air and wait until the last second to lay the ball in so we're going to disagree there as well.

You just used two of the greatest scorers of all time. And Steph talks about his release and release point in interviews and in his tutorials on youtube. Just because he is off balance doesn't mean his release point changes on most of his shots, or that they don't have a lower chance of going in. Players hit adjusted shots, but the % chance of it going in goes down if the release isn't right. Again, that's not debatable.

And not to be a jerk, but I question if you have ever played, or ever played seriously, considering you said you never thought about your release in BASKETBALL. You can't say "I've seen this guy hit at a different release point" and automatically say that the % is the same as his standard release point. That makes absolutley no sense. Tough shots go in, but the % on tough shots and shots not released properly is LOWER.

Follow through & elbow. Never thought once about release point. Don't know what else to tell you.

You see guys like Steph release the ball at all different points all the time to get the shot off quicker based on the level of defense so we're going to disagree heavily there, I watched Iverson for years hang in the air and wait until the last second to lay the ball in so we're going to disagree there as well.

You just used two of the greatest scorers of all time. And Steph talks about his release and release point in interviews and in his tutorials on youtube. Just because he is off balance doesn't mean his release point changes on most of his shots, or that they don't have a lower chance of going in. Players hit adjusted shots, but the % chance of it going in goes down if the release isn't right. Again, that's not debatable.

And not to be a jerk, but I question if you have ever played, or ever played seriously, considering you said you never thought about your release in BASKETBALL. You can't say "I've seen this guy hit at a different release point" and automatically say that the % is the same as his standard release point. That makes absolutley no sense. Tough shots go in, but the % on tough shots and shots not released properly is LOWER.

Follow through & elbow. Never thought once about release point. Don't know what else to tell you.

I just don't believe that, at all.

Again, my points are absolutely valid. Your sliders can be good for realistic stat outcomes, and preferred by those who don't want to time shots, and that's perfectly fine, that's why the option exist. But, let's not talk about those who use User Timing as "less skilled" or "cheesers" (and the less skill part is simply not true), and act snobby about it, because that's the way it comes off. You are no more "sim" than I am because you use real player %, and it certainly doesn't mean you are more "skilled".

Do your thing, but keep it real.

Let me ask you directly. When a player shoots a shot that's not his normal release (on the way down, or really quick) does it have the same chance of going in as his regular shooting motion? Or does the percentage chance of it going in go down? So, if Trevor Ariza catches the ball in the corner, and hes open, if he flicks it up towards the hoop, does it have the same chance to go in as his regular shooting motion/release?

I doubt you shot that percentage with the shot meter off, on higher difficulty, especially with D rated shooters. However, if you would like to demonstrate with a gameplay video, I'm all eyes and ears.

Easy enough, I'll put this debate to rest right now with gameplay. I'm not sure what the rules are on posting personal videos on this site so I'll just post a link instead of embedding them.

I will preface this by saying I'm no YouTuber nor am I trying to be, so the quality is poor (I think because I had HDR on). Also for some reason the only sound it recorded was the whistles and buzzers. This was captured on PS4.

The first video is with User Timing turned on for Shots/Layups. I clearly show in the settings the Shot Meter is off, and I turn User Timing on because I knew if I didn't you'd cry BS. I played the same way I always do, I did not change how I shoot the ball, I did not even focus any attention on my release point, I shot and drove as if I was playing on Real Player %. It was so easy I didn't even miss my first shot until almost 7 minutes into the game:
https://youtu.be/pHUanNo5_mE

After watching you will see I start off and stay hot, first shot missed at 7 minutes and was shooting 75% until the end where I had a couple bad shots due to good defense which brought my overall for the quarter down to 65% and 40% from 3pt.

Now onto the second quarter, I change back to Real Player % and you will see this. I started off decently hot but it dwindled quick, it was a noticeable shift in the difficulty of making my shots, both from range and on the drive.
https://youtu.be/HSoTJN8bVWI

After watching this one you will notice I start to struggle a little bit to score. I end up with a 42% & 17% from 3pt. These are low but personally I'm okay with them because it's much more realistic than 65/40.

So my final thoughts are this; If someone like me, who has used Real Player % for years can turn on User Timing without Shot Meter and score this easily, just think how much of a joke it is especially to someone who uses User Timing all of the time and actually practices with it. If I used this all the time and got used to my players sweet spots I'd be shooting 80%+ every single game which quite frankly is a joke.

So the theory that it takes more skill to use User Timing is completely disproved by me, a complete noob to using User Timing. Furthermore as we see in the videos, scoring with Real Player % is noticeably harder to do, however it does result in a more realistic playing experience.

So my point stands, User Timing is cheese/arcade, Real Player % is for simulation players. You have absolutely no leg to stand on bro, you can show quotes of random "pros" that you don't even know all day long. I took the mature route and proved it with gameplay.

This discussion is over. Let's get back to the reason we're here, the sliders.

I doubt you shot that percentage with the shot meter off, on higher difficulty, especially with D rated shooters. However, if you would like to demonstrate with a gameplay video, I'm all eyes and ears.

Easy enough, I'll put this debate to rest right now with gameplay. I'm not sure what the rules are on posting personal videos on this site so I'll just post a link instead of embedding them.

I will preface this by saying I'm no YouTuber nor am I trying to be, so the quality is poor (I think because I had HDR on). Also for some reason the only sound it recorded was the whistles and buzzers. This was captured on PS4.

The first video is with User Timing turned on for Shots/Layups. I clearly show in the settings the Shot Meter is off, and I turn User Timing on because I knew if I didn't you'd cry BS. I played the same way I always do, I did not change how I shoot the ball, I did not even focus any attention on my release point, I shot and drove as if I was playing on Real Player %. It was so easy I didn't even miss my first shot until almost 7 minutes into the game:
https://youtu.be/pHUanNo5_mE

After watching you will see I start off and stay hot, first shot missed at 7 minutes and was shooting 75% until the end where I had a couple bad shots due to good defense which brought my overall for the quarter down to 65% and 40% from 3pt.

Now onto the second quarter, I change back to Real Player % and you will see this. I started off decently hot but it dwindled quick, it was a noticeable shift in the difficulty of making my shots, both from range and on the drive.
https://youtu.be/HSoTJN8bVWI

After watching this one you will notice I start to struggle a little bit to score. I end up with a 42% & 17% from 3pt. These are low but personally I'm okay with them because it's much more realistic than 65/40.

So my final thoughts are this; If someone like me, who has used Real Player % for years can turn on User Timing without Shot Meter and score this easily, just think how much of a joke it is especially to someone who uses User Timing all of the time and actually practices with it. If I used this all the time and got used to my players sweet spots I'd be shooting 80%+ every single game which quite frankly is a joke.

So the theory that it takes more skill to use User Timing is completely disproved by me, a complete noob to using User Timing. Furthermore as we see in the videos, scoring with Real Player % is noticeably harder to do, however it does result in a more realistic playing experience.

So my point stands, User Timing is cheese/arcade, Real Player % is for simulation players. You have absolutely no leg to stand on bro, you can show quotes of random "pros" that you don't even know all day long. I took the mature route and proved it with gameplay.

This discussion is over. Let's get back to the reason we're here, the sliders.

This doesn't prove anything. All of my points still stand, user timing adds another dimension in the gameplay that you don't have in real player %, on layups AND shots.

What a snobby attitude. You are not more "sim" than me because you use real player %, and certainly doesn't mean you are better at the game, or more skilled.

Come on man first you called the dude a fraud and said he was "making stuff up" then the dude posts 35 minutes of gameplay to prove his point and you say it "doesn't prove anything" at this point you're just trolling bro..........I think we can put this "debate" to rest.

Come on man first you called the dude a fraud and said he was "making stuff up" then the dude posts 35 minutes of gameplay to prove his point and you say it "doesn't prove anything" at this point you're just trolling bro..........I think we can put this "debate" to rest.

I don't waste that much time "trolling", Mike. And my points still stand.

I play my share of arcade type basketball for "fun", like with my brother. But, I also play sim, and have played sim for over two decades, and since real player % became a thing, I've never used it. I have had a TON of games that resembled sim basketball.

I also play on the hardest level, and challenge myself against the CPU (including using user timing where I make my own destiny).

To call people who don't use real player % arcade or cheesers is fucking ridiculous, comes off snobby, and is absolutley inaccurate. It's a shitty attitude to have, an uppety attitude that honestly smells like shit. Millions of user have enjoyed user timing over the years, and I guatantee lots have had sim battles with that option, to act like you are "above that" with those comments is a damn joke.

Yes, 2K pros who put the game on the display also agree with me, these people are paid to play the game competitively for more money than a lot of people make with a college degree working full time for a year. Acting like 2K pros, myself, and the others are cheesers and arcade is ridiculous.

Un-fucking-real.

I didn't have the patience to read everybody's point and whoever is on whatever part of the argument, but I will just drop my knowledge here, based on the 600 hours+ I've put in 2K17 while creating the NLSC Community Roster.
While having the RP%, the shot meter stills matter. A lot actually. What is different in comparison to User Timing is that the RP% adds/takes away from the quality of your release depending on the situation.
Like Kyrie Irving would get a boost inside the paint even though you released half way through earlier and make that shot, Hassan Whiteside would get a downgrade when shooting 3's even though you were 0.2 seconds away from a perfect release and brick that ball.
But if you totally mess up a layup with Kyrie and release it 1/4 way through, you will miss that shot no matter the RP%. If you attempt a 3 with Whiteside and be 0.05 seconds away from a perfect release, you will probably get that shot in.
So RP% it's User Timing + strong situational modifiers.

I didn't have the patience to read everybody's point and whoever is on whatever part of the argument, but I will just drop my knowledge here, based on the 600 hours+ I've put in 2K17 while creating the NLSC Community Roster.
While having the RP%, the shot meter stills matter. A lot actually. What is different in comparison to User Timing is that the RP% adds/takes away from the quality of your release depending on the situation.
Like Kyrie Irving would get a boost inside the paint even though you released half way through earlier and make that shot, Hassan Whiteside would get a downgrade when shooting 3's even though you were 0.2 seconds away from a perfect release and brick that ball.
But if you totally mess up a layup with Kyrie and release it 1/4 way through, you will miss that shot no matter the RP%. If you attempt a 3 with Whiteside and be 0.05 seconds away from a perfect release, you will probably get that shot in.
So RP% it's User Timing + strong situational modifiers.

As coach 2K mentions in his breakdown. User Timing is still situational just like Real Player %, but now you have to time it. The attributes/tendencies/defense still factor in on User Timing. So that's not true at all.

Also, on the videos he posted above, he is using easier than Pro level shooting sliders. Default pro is 50 across the board on shooting sliders, he has 51 and dunk in traffic on 55. He also has the CPU sliders at 50 (For shooting, because I cant see the rest). The defense being played by the CPU is atrocious in his video, because they are playing on LOWER difficulty. Ive said numerous times on this post about playing on HIGHER difficulties (I play on superstar). You guys are talking about "More skill", and boasting that you play sim and others player arcade and "cheese", and follow that up with a video of you playing on easier than pro shooting sliders, against CPU on pro sliders, and say "AH!! Gotcha!". You are kidding, right? Not one thing was proven with those videos. If I played against the CPU and they were playing that poorly on defense, I wouldn't even want to play because it's no challenge. I never play on pro or even all-star, because on those levels the CPU defense is easily exploitable. Talking to me about skill... and posting easier than pro gameplay (With shooting)... unreal.

Not only that, your example of Whiteside. You release Whiteside can't get green on his threes right? Have you seen his meter (I don't use one, but I've seen the meters for the shooters). Have you ever taken a three with Whiteside in a game? Go into practice, on HOF difficulty, and shoot 100 threes with Hassan Whiteside. Have you taken a contested shot and looked at the meter, it doesn't turn green, do you know how hard it is to hit contested shots with user timing? Do you know how much harder it is with poor shooters? Do you know how hard it is to hit contested layups WHILE timing the shot accurately (Those layups don't go green).

Shadymike, cmon man, you saw the sliders in that video. Shooting sliders favor the user, and represent EASIER than pro difficulty. I've said to keep it real, but you guys can't seem to do that. Calling me stubborn is laughable in this case, for anybody who can think critically without being biased.

The defense the CPU is playing looks like its on ROOKIE.

This is his video on user timing gameplay. Only TWO outside makes (Wide open threes) and the rest easy shots at the rim (Because the CPU is playing no defense)

You are using that as proof? You are talking about "skill" when you are playing against THAT defense, ANYBODY would shot high on that defense and only shooting at the hoop. Unless the game FORCES you to miss wide open looks.

1st basket: Dunk with no defense
2nd basket: Layup with no defense
3rd basket: Wide open dunk
4th basket: Shot 4 feet from the rim
5th basket: Wide open three from the top of the key
6th basket: Wide open dunk
7th basket: Wide open layup
8th basket: Wide open dunk
9th basket: Wide open three
10th basket: Wide open layup
11th basket: Open layup
12th basket: Wide open layup
13th basket: Layup

Easy enough, I'll put this debate to rest right now with gameplay. I'm not sure what the rules are on posting personal videos on this site so I'll just post a link instead of embedding them.

I will preface this by saying I'm no YouTuber nor am I trying to be, so the quality is poor (I think because I had HDR on). Also for some reason the only sound it recorded was the whistles and buzzers. This was captured on PS4.

The first video is with User Timing turned on for Shots/Layups. I clearly show in the settings the Shot Meter is off, and I turn User Timing on because I knew if I didn't you'd cry BS. I played the same way I always do, I did not change how I shoot the ball, I did not even focus any attention on my release point, I shot and drove as if I was playing on Real Player %. It was so easy I didn't even miss my first shot until almost 7 minutes into the game:
https://youtu.be/pHUanNo5_mE

After watching you will see I start off and stay hot, first shot missed at 7 minutes and was shooting 75% until the end where I had a couple bad shots due to good defense which brought my overall for the quarter down to 65% and 40% from 3pt.

Now onto the second quarter, I change back to Real Player % and you will see this. I started off decently hot but it dwindled quick, it was a noticeable shift in the difficulty of making my shots, both from range and on the drive.
https://youtu.be/HSoTJN8bVWI

After watching this one you will notice I start to struggle a little bit to score. I end up with a 42% & 17% from 3pt. These are low but personally I'm okay with them because it's much more realistic than 65/40.

So my final thoughts are this; If someone like me, who has used Real Player % for years can turn on User Timing without Shot Meter and score this easily, just think how much of a joke it is especially to someone who uses User Timing all of the time and actually practices with it. If I used this all the time and got used to my players sweet spots I'd be shooting 80%+ every single game which quite frankly is a joke.

So the theory that it takes more skill to use User Timing is completely disproved by me, a complete noob to using User Timing. Furthermore as we see in the videos, scoring with Real Player % is noticeably harder to do, however it does result in a more realistic playing experience.

So my point stands, User Timing is cheese/arcade, Real Player % is for simulation players. You have absolutely no leg to stand on bro, you can show quotes of random "pros" that you don't even know all day long. I took the mature route and proved it with gameplay.

This discussion is over. Let's get back to the reason we're here, the sliders.

I want everybody who views this thread to watch and see how someone can doctor gameplay in order to support a point. I break down the gameplay below. On User Timing, EVERY basket made in the quarter is wide open, and only TWO outside shots (Both wide open) are made baskets. He talks about shooting 75% in the first 7 minutes, only ONE outside shot was made in that timeframe (The wide open three). The rest are layups and dunks. Embedded videos to display this ridiculous attempt.

Here is his "User Timing" video. He shoots 6 outside shots in this video, and hits two (The two wide open ones), he missed two good looks as well. He shot 33% on outside shots, the rest of his baskets are completely wide open under the hoop

phpBB [video]

1st basket: Dunk with no defense
2nd basket: Layup with no defense
3rd basket: Wide open dunk
4th basket: Shot 4 feet from the rim
5th basket: Wide open three
6th basket: Wide open dunk
7th basket: Wide open layup
8th basket: Wide open dunk
9th basket: Wide open three
10th basket: Wide open layup
11th basket: Open layup
12th basket: Wide open layup
13th basket: Layup


Here is the second video he posted of the second quarter, with "Real Player %. He is taking contested outside shots constantly. This is literally intentional contested shot taking in order to prove a point. I'm actually shocked at the stupidity of displaying these videos as proof, when it's so obvious whats going on. ANYBODY that watches these videos easily sees what I am talking about, and any credibility you had (Which wasn't any to begin with with me) is completely out the window.

phpBB [video]

1st basket: Made layup
2nd attempt: contested three Missed
3rd attempt: Contested shot
4th basket: Heavily contested three MADE
5th attempt: Heavily contested three missed
6th basket: 5 foot fadeaway semi contested made
7th attempt: Contested corner three:
8th basket: Shot at the rim, made and a foul
9th basket: Wide open layup
10th basket: Wide open dunk
11th attempt: Semi contested three missed
12th attempt: Contested three missed
13th attempt: Wide open dunk


He is playing with easier than pro shooting sliders, and the defense by the CPU could be picked apart (It doesn't need to be because he is just running in for easy scores) by any rookie who picks up the controller, the defense is a joke, and the videos are even more of a joke. Also, in the second video, he doesn't show the sliders (Top of them for shooting) you have no idea if they were changed or not, but the defense is certainly more active in the second video. Regardless, that wouldn't matter in this case really, cause of the 13 basket scored in the user timing video, 11 were WIDE OPEN under the hoop, and the two outside makes were completely WIDE OPEN. But, it would just prove further doctoring. He called this proof, when on easier than pro sliders for shooting, and horrible CPU defense, he shoots 33% on outside shots with User Timing.

Shadymike, I've lost a lot of respect for you calling this "Proof". And for the other dude, you have no respect from me period for this stunt. These videos are absolutely a joke to the max.

Stay awake people, people will certainly prove themselves for what they are over time. Make sure you always watch videos that are sent to you, don't trust anybody until they prove they can be trusted. I am actually infuriated at this, as it insults the intelligence of anybody who views it (This thread and these videos). You should be ashamed of yourself, that is some really low level shit. literally nobody who watches this display (And your words) would ever trust you again on here.

I was just playing as I always play, there is nothing doctored or intentional here. I can understand an argument for dunks because those aren't going to miss but the layups are all User Timing as well. I'm an old school NBA fan and I play a lot in the post and on drives, I'm not a fan of the current NBA fad to just shoot 3's all day long (mostly why I don't play online, it's a chuck fest). I typically only take jump shots if wide open or if I at least have an edge/step on them. There was only one shot I took the whole game that I felt was a bad shot and that was the Ingram shot in the second video around 14:05. There were 1 or 2 other bad shots but that was when the shot clock was running out so it was do or die situation regardless so I don't count that as a bad shot just my fault for not paying attention to the clock better.

I hope you also realize these "pros" you're referring to play multiplayer/PvP. In that mode you HAVE to use User Timing, so of course they're going to use that or endorse it because it's the only way they play. There is no such thing as professional AI players and if there was, us here are pretty much creme of the crop. We Sim players like playing solo against AI, and we want an authentic basketball experience. User Timing VS. AI is extremely cheese, you will almost never lose unless you're simply not a good player. With Real Player % it adds in that extra RNG obstacle to even out the skill-gap between the user and the AI. As I said before I call it a "handicap" because without it I won't lose any games and that's boring. I like a challenge and Real Player % is simply the more challenging way of playing the game, it's the only way the AI can actually beat you. The AI also plays with Real Player %, so we're just evening the playing field.

I truly don't understand why you're taking this so personal, even so much as to call us snobby, uppity, and cursing like we're out to get you. We're just trying to explain why we play the way we do, and why it's the better shot type for Sim/AI play. You've been nothing but extremely toxic this entire time and seem to be just trying to look for a fight and I'm not here to fight. You even go as far as to waste your time and try to breakdown my videos by claiming I'm doctoring them. You also claim I use less than Pro sliders which isn't the case, I used All-Star then edited them to match Shady's sliders as I said I was using his sliders as you will see above it has the 51's. Regardless that is a failed argument because the sliders affect both shot types.

I understand your viewpoint that User Timing adds an extra element to a shot on top of the other elements since you have to time your shots, except you don't have to, that was the point of my videos. I was making no conscious effort to time my shots, I shot the exact same way I always do when I play on RP%. I was curious to test it out because it had been so long since I used User Timing and I quickly remembered why I switched, it's just too easy to score, yes a lot were drives but on RP% I would have missed half or more of those low post shots and drives, not the dunks most likely but that is irrelevant. You claim I'm playing against bad defense when I'm using All-Star and did not manipulate any AI settings that Shady didn't already change. The defense was no different in the 1st and 2nd quarters, the difference was it was simply harder to score on them with RP%.

I think you may need some mental help, you are delusional and clearly have an anger management issue. There is cheap online counseling at betterhelp.com I use it myself for my daily job stress. I highly recommend it as it has helped me be more calm and think about my actions more. I wish you luck in the future, I'm ignoring you from this point on as I should have about 5 or so posts ago.

Just stop. Look at your statements in regards to your "proof", look at everything around it. You messed up, and showed your true colors. Own up to it, admit it, be better next time, and move on.

You played in sub pro difficulty, shot 33% on outside shots, clearly doctored the gameplay (as your gameplay in the first video is completely different than the second), and made up a bunch of lies. That's not debatable at this point, it's clear that's what hapoened . Calling me a troll, and stubborn, and stating I need mental help, when all of the above is what YOU pulled in this thread, is really concerning. And stating you would have missed half of those shots under the rim on real player % (when they were wise open) just adds to your bulk of pies in order to support your own view point. It's painfully obvious what you tried to pull. You shot 33% on sub pro difficulty with user timing in that quarter on outside shots, and on higher difficulties I can only imagine the percentage you would shoot. I've been true during this entire thread, during the entire conversation, and you have been proven as full of shit through most of it, and your backpedaling attempt in your videos/statements is just filled with more lies.

The person who calls out the obvious fuckery, blatant lies. And shady practices, is not the one who needs mental help. The person who pulls all of that shit is the one who needs to take a long look at themselves in the mirror.

Reflect on this conversation, how you handled yourself and others in it, and improve yourself. You will feel a lot better about yourself at the end of the day knowing that you handled things the right way.

We all make mistakes, I've made my share. As long as we learn from them, we will be good to go moving forward. Just be better man, be real.

Easy enough, I'll put this debate to rest right now with gameplay.

Complete BS

The first video is with User Timing turned on for Shots/Layups. I clearly show in the settings the Shot Meter is off, and I turn User Timing on because I knew if I didn't you'd cry BS. I played the same way I always do, I did not change how I shoot the ball, I did not even focus any attention on my release point, I shot and drove as if I was playing on Real Player %. It was so easy I didn't even miss my first shot until almost 7 minutes into the game:
https://youtu.be/pHUanNo5_mE

Complete and total BS. You made 2 out of 6 outside shots in that quarter on sub pro sliders. And you said I'd cry BS? Umm, all you did is deliver BS with your comments and video.

After watching you will see I start off and stay hot, first shot missed at 7 minutes and was shooting 75% until the end where I had a couple bad shots due to good defense which brought my overall for the quarter down to 65% and 40% from 3pt.

You shot 2 for 6 from the outside, every other basket was easy basket right at the hoop. COMPLETE BS.

Now onto the second quarter, I change back to Real Player % and you will see this. I started off decently hot but it dwindled quick, it was a noticeable shift in the difficulty of making my shots, both from range and on the drive.
https://youtu.be/HSoTJN8bVWI

Complete BS. You took a bunch of contested shots in this video, and made the same shots at the rim as you were making with User timing.

After watching this one you will notice I start to struggle a little bit to score. I end up with a 42% & 17% from 3pt. These are low but personally I'm okay with them because it's much more realistic than 65/40.

Playing on sub pro sliders and doctoring videos will do that for ya. Complete BS.

So my final thoughts are this; If someone like me, who has used Real Player % for years can turn on User Timing without Shot Meter and score this easily, just think how much of a joke it is especially to someone who uses User Timing all of the time and actually practices with it. If I used this all the time and got used to my players sweet spots I'd be shooting 80%+ every single game which quite frankly is a joke.

Sub pro sliders, 2 for 6 from outside (Other baskets easy buckets right at the rim) and completely different playstyle in both videos. Whats the joke? You or User Timing? Easily you. More BS statements.

So the theory that it takes more skill to use User Timing is completely disproved by me, a complete noob to using User Timing. Furthermore as we see in the videos, scoring with Real Player % is noticeably harder to do, however it does result in a more realistic playing experience.

Noticeably harder to do? Im sure you didn't think I'd break down the videos like that, Mr. 33% on sub pro sliders from the outside, and doctored videos.

So my point stands, User Timing is cheese/arcade, Real Player % is for simulation players. You have absolutely no leg to stand on bro, you can show quotes of random "pros" that you don't even know all day long. I took the mature route and proved it with gameplay.

You made no point whatsoever, you just proved you are a phony, and frankly an ass as well.

This discussion is over. Let's get back to the reason we're here, the sliders.

The discussion is over after that display? Videos that show nothing but the fact that you are full of shit? Imagine someone saying they play sim, and the people who use user timing are cheesers and arcade, meanwhile this person plays on sub pro difficulty with TERRRIBLE unrealistic CPU defense where you can just run in and score at will, and using the debate topic of saying user timing is cheese and arcade, shoots 33% on outside shots with it, and this person is calling other players Arcade and Cheesers? Are you kidding me right now? What the hell is wrong with you?



And I need mental help? You are kidding right? Anybody who can think critically and who sees this conversation (And your lies and videos) wouldn't say that I need mental help, they would say YOU need a reality check. You continue to be completely full of shit (Including more full of shit statement in your previous post). Own up to your mistakes and grow from it.

Imo Real Player % is better to use.

Imo Real Player % is better to use.

And that is perfectly fine! We all have our own playing styles, the contest was whether it took more or less skill, that was the discussion we were having. And, whether user timing was "cheese" or "arcade". Which I brought up a slew of points for my side, and I stand by them. Sko, use real player %, it doesn't make me think less of you or anything, I use your mods, I've used your sliders, etc.

It's the complete BS that I had to deal with surrounding it. Ball faced lies from someone who just continues down that same path, which to ANY critical thinker can see what he tried to pull and continues to. This isn't about real player % or User timing anymore, it's about someone being completely full of it, doctoring videos, calling out other gamers as "Arcade" and "Cheesers" while he himself plays the way he did in those two videos, and lies about the content in them (Even though its now been documented and proven he is full of shit). Stating other gamers are playing arcade and cheesing, when he's playing on sub pro difficulty, with atrocious unrealistic CPU defense, and just waltzing into the lane for uncontested shots right at the rim constantly (11 of the 13 makes in that quarter). That's not "sim", THAT'S arcade, THAT'S cheese. Anybody that can't see the irony here, who can't see how ridiculous his claims are, and what he demonstrates himself, are blind as a bat.

It's the blind support that ShadyMike through at him (Because he couldn't have actually watched the videos) And the insult to my intelligence and anybody elses who comes on here and sees the shit being pulled.

You and I are cool Sko, use what you want. That's not what this is about.

As productive as this "debate" has been **rolls eyes** I'm going to get back to my sliders now. I have here yet another encouraging first quarter from the CPU in terms of FG%, 3 pointers attempted, and FT's taken. I was the Wizards here...stay tuned people!