What I Liked and Didn't Like...
Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:30 am
about the Spurs-Rockets game. A tad late, I realize but anyways, I am well aware this is not the full game, but there are some issues that already strike me (some have been mentioned in other threads, I realize that).
What I Liked:
- Collison detection...at least when Houston was on offense. Awesome. Realistic fouls, getting to the line. Now most fouls are like in the NBA.
- Interface. First thing that stood out. Looked very, very nice. Totally improved over last year.
- Graphics (and lighting). Looked very nice to me (except for the net and player animations, will explain the latter later).
- Blocked shots. No more swatting shots when behind a player, blocking it clean (1 in 1000 odds when you're behind a player and can actually block it cleaning, always happened to me in 04).
- Improved help defense. Still not the best, at times it was the user who brought Yao over to block the shot, but it's better than last year. Or so it seemed.
- Stealing. Especially late in the 4th, when Sura poked the ball out of Parker's hands, and instead of it bouncing all the way down the court or it immediately ending up in Sura's hands, there was a quick loose ball, which the user bounced on. Probably the most realistic and pleasing part of the awesome video.
However, there was a part of steals I did not like. There was way to much just press the steal button when the ball is in the air and the player suddenly has it. This is probably a result of a lack of offensive movement (will be addressed later), which results in the defender just standing there. and grabbing the ball, which doesn't look correct. The one steal like this that struck out to me most was Pike stealing it in the 3rd/4th quarter...he had a vertical that rivals Vince!
- No more superman speed on fast breaks by defenders.
- Tip ins. Very, very nice.
What I Did Not Like:
- Collison detection/blocking when SAS had the ball. For some reason, the Spurs were afraid of contact and seemed to avoid drawing a foul. Also, Yao seemed to be a Wilt down low...I don't believe there was even 2 fouls called on him for trying to help and block a shot.
- The post game. The Spurs hardly got the ball down to Duncan when he was in the game, and he couldn't do much against a terrible defender in Howard. It was basically back down Howard until he's doubled, kick out, or take a shot. Not many post moves.
- Post defense. Against Duncan, the double team never came fast enough. Same with Yao. It took about 4-5 seconds before a player reacted and ran over. It shouldn't be immediate, but these guys are post threats. It would be stupid to give them that much time, considering the fact that in real life, they probably would've taken the shot (or passed the ball out) in 4-5 seconds time. Also, when a defender fronts a post player, the other big man defender almost always is wandering nearby ready to double the post player (in case the pass goes over the fronting defender). I never saw that in the replays.
- Results of the dunk button are the same as last year. I saw Howard take it to the hole after a confusion by the Spurs and he suddenly got super burst on his steps. Basically, in 04, you couldn't stop this, once the player hits the dunk button and the players starts going up...unless the player misses. I have no idea how Howard got so much burst, but it was grossly unrealistic.
- Player animations. Let's start with dribbling up the court. The players seemed to be hunched a bit when they came up the court...it didn't look right. The jump shots were a bit funky too. It seemed as the player would, on the way up, move their butt back a bit, then wait till when they have just come down from the peak to take their jumper. Most players in the NBA take their jumper at the peak of their jump. The jump shot wasn't really textbook...it wasn't really Marion flinging it out there, but the arms were a bit more forward than a textbook jumper and the release always came late as I already mentioned.
- Passing has only changed marginally. I saw only one good quality bounce pass, and that was from Parker to I believe Duncan in the post. The others were these one arm throw up in the air-hope he catches it, type passes, which of course, the player does catch. There need to be a LOT more bounce passes, especially into the post. The fast break passing was ridiculous. Anyone who has seen 1 game of basektball could figure that out.
- Defense. It seemed like one freestyle move and the player was gone. I know the user often messed around with Sura/T-Mac by hitting the "Take Charge" button and having Parker drive by them. But it also occurred with players like T-Mac, Sura, JJ, just one freestyle move and you're in the lane.
- Team offense was lackluster. I remember when the testers went to the EA offenses, they lauded the team offense. However, I did not see much. It was either Bowen jacking a shot (what happened to that primacy rating? he took way too many contested or hurried 3's, most of his IRL come off Duncan kick-out directly to Bowen or another player which gets rotated around). I saw the former happen once, and the latter happen oh.....zip times. Houston was the same, but that was due to the playing style of the user...there would definitely be better ball rotation if they incorporated more chest passes and bounce passes instead of one arm and jump passes that have lots of air time.
There was hardly any dribble penetration, kick out, rotate, take the jumper. It was dribble penetration, take the shot/get to the line.
- Mid-ranged jumpers I saw about 5 of. In the entire game.
- Clarence Weatherspoon the 7th person on Houston's bench? Nachbar, Padgett, neither are top 10 in Houston's lineup? ...that makes me worried about the other parts of the roster. But minor issue...
- Player personalities weren't exactly pleasing. Howard and Taylor are jump shooters. They just stand around 15 feet and wait for someone like T-Mac to penetrate, and kick out to them for the jumper. Bowen shoots a lot less. Ginobili dribbles a lot more, slashes a lot more. Also, do you really think the Spurs would put Ginobili on T-Mac and Bowen on JJ?
- This one needs an example...if Sura dribbled the ball up, then stopped (but kept his dribble) at the 3 point line, with Parker on him, Sura would always turn to the side or turn his back. Same as 04. I don't know about you guys, but this was a big annoyance, as being a PC player, it was hard to do anything with Sura once he turned his side/back, except back down his defender, shoot, or pass. Hard to make any effective moves and what not. Point guards don't turn their side/back to their defender so often in the NBA because the defender is hardly up in his face so often...they usually give some room, unless you're a sharpshooter.
What I'm Unsure About:
- Big men shooting jumpers. Unfortunately, there was only one mid-ranged jumper by Howard, Yao, Taylor, Duncan, and Rose. And that was the very last shot of the game. It went in...I'm still curious how well big men hit mid-ranged jumpers (there are more mid-ranged shooting big men than post scorers, which really irked me last year). Hopefully the MEM-SAC videos will answer my question, as I will watch it in the near future.
- Comeback code? I know they said they took it out, but Houston was bricking every shot they took in the 4th. It seemed almost as if the comeback code was in there, but I'm not sure (thus, why this is under this section).
Actually, I'm going to put the 1st quarter of the MEM-SAC game in here too, since I'll forget my thoughts later...
- First play was awesome...there was actually a bounce pass. Secondly, there was player movement (MM moved in to receive the pass for a short jumper). Lastly, the tip by Wright was another beauty.
- Right after, Bibby made the one armed pass again, but it was ok this time, since the air time wasn't too significant. However, Brad Miller pro-hops (what the heck??) right into his defender, which is not only dumb but it didn't do much.
- 3rd play (2nd by Grizz) showed again nice movement by the Grizzlies. However, the user appears to like to jack 3's...either way, it wasn't a terrible 3, just there could've been a better shot.
- 4th play: Again, Bibby blows by Williams with one simple move. He pro-hops into Wright (again, what the heck? it's stupid and turn the ball over). I liked how Bibby fell down, but I don't like that he hit the floor and immediately bounced back up to dive for the ball, like he had a jet pack.
- 5th play: Looked nice, Wright had an open jumper (which I'd bet he would've taken in real life, it was only 15 feet, which is standard for Wright), but he went inside and here comes freestyle air. It looked great, and went in luckily.
- 6th play: Nice ball movement again, Peja for an open 3. Still funky shooting animation.
- 7th: Nice entry pass (bounce pass!), to Gasol, but when you have such a wonderful post player vs a average defender, I don't see how he could move all the way across the paint (and back) without any help defense. Either way, the freestyle animation there was a bit unrealistic. Good thing he missed...nice offensive rebound though...but Brad Miller really fell asleep there...
- Brad Miller has way too much air time on the 8th play. Freestyle air again...the last two times it was marginally ok (the amount of time the player was in the air and the move he made), but not many players can hang as long as Miller did and take the shot (AND have it go in). A bit overdone.
- Dribble penetration (made me smile), although Wright passed on the jumper. Type of shot I would expect him to take (again)...makes a few post moves that don't really do much, then kicks out, then bad pass by Posey, bit unrealistic that Webber could just grab the ball (probably be tipped by Webber or Gasol when both go for the ball).
- Unrealistic upcourt pass. This is the time for the lob pass that has a lot of air time. I don't see how Webber could see Bibby and thread that needle right through all those defenders (or how Bibby could see the ball when his head was turned, until that is of course, the last second).
- No comment really on Williams' turnover, but very, very pretty entry pass by Peja to Miller from the sideline on the inbound...why Miller didn't just turn to the other side and lay it in is beyond me. Regardless, turns to his left, makes a few post moves, then throws a silly alleyoop to Christie. Bad animation. Probably should be a bounce pass to Christie, who takes it up strong for a slam.
- Very pretty jump hook by Gasol, but again, why do the Kings not double this post threat? How does he get across the paint? Honestly I would happy if EA would focus more on gameplay and team strategy/personalities (as well as player tendencies)
I liked the Memphis-Sacto highlights a lot more, from a gameplay standpoint, than the Houston-San Antonio ones. More realistic plays, but still (and obviously) not without flaws. Will check out the others later.
What I Liked:
- Collison detection...at least when Houston was on offense. Awesome. Realistic fouls, getting to the line. Now most fouls are like in the NBA.
- Interface. First thing that stood out. Looked very, very nice. Totally improved over last year.
- Graphics (and lighting). Looked very nice to me (except for the net and player animations, will explain the latter later).
- Blocked shots. No more swatting shots when behind a player, blocking it clean (1 in 1000 odds when you're behind a player and can actually block it cleaning, always happened to me in 04).
- Improved help defense. Still not the best, at times it was the user who brought Yao over to block the shot, but it's better than last year. Or so it seemed.
- Stealing. Especially late in the 4th, when Sura poked the ball out of Parker's hands, and instead of it bouncing all the way down the court or it immediately ending up in Sura's hands, there was a quick loose ball, which the user bounced on. Probably the most realistic and pleasing part of the awesome video.
However, there was a part of steals I did not like. There was way to much just press the steal button when the ball is in the air and the player suddenly has it. This is probably a result of a lack of offensive movement (will be addressed later), which results in the defender just standing there. and grabbing the ball, which doesn't look correct. The one steal like this that struck out to me most was Pike stealing it in the 3rd/4th quarter...he had a vertical that rivals Vince!
- No more superman speed on fast breaks by defenders.
- Tip ins. Very, very nice.
What I Did Not Like:
- Collison detection/blocking when SAS had the ball. For some reason, the Spurs were afraid of contact and seemed to avoid drawing a foul. Also, Yao seemed to be a Wilt down low...I don't believe there was even 2 fouls called on him for trying to help and block a shot.
- The post game. The Spurs hardly got the ball down to Duncan when he was in the game, and he couldn't do much against a terrible defender in Howard. It was basically back down Howard until he's doubled, kick out, or take a shot. Not many post moves.
- Post defense. Against Duncan, the double team never came fast enough. Same with Yao. It took about 4-5 seconds before a player reacted and ran over. It shouldn't be immediate, but these guys are post threats. It would be stupid to give them that much time, considering the fact that in real life, they probably would've taken the shot (or passed the ball out) in 4-5 seconds time. Also, when a defender fronts a post player, the other big man defender almost always is wandering nearby ready to double the post player (in case the pass goes over the fronting defender). I never saw that in the replays.
- Results of the dunk button are the same as last year. I saw Howard take it to the hole after a confusion by the Spurs and he suddenly got super burst on his steps. Basically, in 04, you couldn't stop this, once the player hits the dunk button and the players starts going up...unless the player misses. I have no idea how Howard got so much burst, but it was grossly unrealistic.
- Player animations. Let's start with dribbling up the court. The players seemed to be hunched a bit when they came up the court...it didn't look right. The jump shots were a bit funky too. It seemed as the player would, on the way up, move their butt back a bit, then wait till when they have just come down from the peak to take their jumper. Most players in the NBA take their jumper at the peak of their jump. The jump shot wasn't really textbook...it wasn't really Marion flinging it out there, but the arms were a bit more forward than a textbook jumper and the release always came late as I already mentioned.
- Passing has only changed marginally. I saw only one good quality bounce pass, and that was from Parker to I believe Duncan in the post. The others were these one arm throw up in the air-hope he catches it, type passes, which of course, the player does catch. There need to be a LOT more bounce passes, especially into the post. The fast break passing was ridiculous. Anyone who has seen 1 game of basektball could figure that out.
- Defense. It seemed like one freestyle move and the player was gone. I know the user often messed around with Sura/T-Mac by hitting the "Take Charge" button and having Parker drive by them. But it also occurred with players like T-Mac, Sura, JJ, just one freestyle move and you're in the lane.
- Team offense was lackluster. I remember when the testers went to the EA offenses, they lauded the team offense. However, I did not see much. It was either Bowen jacking a shot (what happened to that primacy rating? he took way too many contested or hurried 3's, most of his IRL come off Duncan kick-out directly to Bowen or another player which gets rotated around). I saw the former happen once, and the latter happen oh.....zip times. Houston was the same, but that was due to the playing style of the user...there would definitely be better ball rotation if they incorporated more chest passes and bounce passes instead of one arm and jump passes that have lots of air time.
There was hardly any dribble penetration, kick out, rotate, take the jumper. It was dribble penetration, take the shot/get to the line.
- Mid-ranged jumpers I saw about 5 of. In the entire game.
- Clarence Weatherspoon the 7th person on Houston's bench? Nachbar, Padgett, neither are top 10 in Houston's lineup? ...that makes me worried about the other parts of the roster. But minor issue...
- Player personalities weren't exactly pleasing. Howard and Taylor are jump shooters. They just stand around 15 feet and wait for someone like T-Mac to penetrate, and kick out to them for the jumper. Bowen shoots a lot less. Ginobili dribbles a lot more, slashes a lot more. Also, do you really think the Spurs would put Ginobili on T-Mac and Bowen on JJ?
- This one needs an example...if Sura dribbled the ball up, then stopped (but kept his dribble) at the 3 point line, with Parker on him, Sura would always turn to the side or turn his back. Same as 04. I don't know about you guys, but this was a big annoyance, as being a PC player, it was hard to do anything with Sura once he turned his side/back, except back down his defender, shoot, or pass. Hard to make any effective moves and what not. Point guards don't turn their side/back to their defender so often in the NBA because the defender is hardly up in his face so often...they usually give some room, unless you're a sharpshooter.
What I'm Unsure About:
- Big men shooting jumpers. Unfortunately, there was only one mid-ranged jumper by Howard, Yao, Taylor, Duncan, and Rose. And that was the very last shot of the game. It went in...I'm still curious how well big men hit mid-ranged jumpers (there are more mid-ranged shooting big men than post scorers, which really irked me last year). Hopefully the MEM-SAC videos will answer my question, as I will watch it in the near future.
- Comeback code? I know they said they took it out, but Houston was bricking every shot they took in the 4th. It seemed almost as if the comeback code was in there, but I'm not sure (thus, why this is under this section).
Actually, I'm going to put the 1st quarter of the MEM-SAC game in here too, since I'll forget my thoughts later...
- First play was awesome...there was actually a bounce pass. Secondly, there was player movement (MM moved in to receive the pass for a short jumper). Lastly, the tip by Wright was another beauty.
- Right after, Bibby made the one armed pass again, but it was ok this time, since the air time wasn't too significant. However, Brad Miller pro-hops (what the heck??) right into his defender, which is not only dumb but it didn't do much.
- 3rd play (2nd by Grizz) showed again nice movement by the Grizzlies. However, the user appears to like to jack 3's...either way, it wasn't a terrible 3, just there could've been a better shot.
- 4th play: Again, Bibby blows by Williams with one simple move. He pro-hops into Wright (again, what the heck? it's stupid and turn the ball over). I liked how Bibby fell down, but I don't like that he hit the floor and immediately bounced back up to dive for the ball, like he had a jet pack.
- 5th play: Looked nice, Wright had an open jumper (which I'd bet he would've taken in real life, it was only 15 feet, which is standard for Wright), but he went inside and here comes freestyle air. It looked great, and went in luckily.
- 6th play: Nice ball movement again, Peja for an open 3. Still funky shooting animation.
- 7th: Nice entry pass (bounce pass!), to Gasol, but when you have such a wonderful post player vs a average defender, I don't see how he could move all the way across the paint (and back) without any help defense. Either way, the freestyle animation there was a bit unrealistic. Good thing he missed...nice offensive rebound though...but Brad Miller really fell asleep there...
- Brad Miller has way too much air time on the 8th play. Freestyle air again...the last two times it was marginally ok (the amount of time the player was in the air and the move he made), but not many players can hang as long as Miller did and take the shot (AND have it go in). A bit overdone.
- Dribble penetration (made me smile), although Wright passed on the jumper. Type of shot I would expect him to take (again)...makes a few post moves that don't really do much, then kicks out, then bad pass by Posey, bit unrealistic that Webber could just grab the ball (probably be tipped by Webber or Gasol when both go for the ball).
- Unrealistic upcourt pass. This is the time for the lob pass that has a lot of air time. I don't see how Webber could see Bibby and thread that needle right through all those defenders (or how Bibby could see the ball when his head was turned, until that is of course, the last second).
- No comment really on Williams' turnover, but very, very pretty entry pass by Peja to Miller from the sideline on the inbound...why Miller didn't just turn to the other side and lay it in is beyond me. Regardless, turns to his left, makes a few post moves, then throws a silly alleyoop to Christie. Bad animation. Probably should be a bounce pass to Christie, who takes it up strong for a slam.
- Very pretty jump hook by Gasol, but again, why do the Kings not double this post threat? How does he get across the paint? Honestly I would happy if EA would focus more on gameplay and team strategy/personalities (as well as player tendencies)
I liked the Memphis-Sacto highlights a lot more, from a gameplay standpoint, than the Houston-San Antonio ones. More realistic plays, but still (and obviously) not without flaws. Will check out the others later.
Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:38 am
ok, well first of all i have to say...that you cant expect them to program a diff style of play for each individual player, it would be impossible to have on xbox or ps2. on pc it would work, but it would take a lot of time to do...
Mon Sep 13, 2004 11:42 am
SAG375 wrote:ok, well first of all i have to say...that you cant expect them to program a diff style of play for each individual player, it would be impossible to have on xbox or ps2. on pc it would work, but it would take a lot of time to do...
Well that's true...I have to admit everything from there was from a PC perspective. However, it is possible to do simple stuff, for example in Madden (at least in 03, forget about 04, haven't played 05), they had RB styles (speed, power, balanced). They could do things like that for big men (post, jump shooter, balanced, versatile, etc)...for shooters (Reggie Miller-esque [cant think of a proper name], slasher, stand still shooter, etc). Team personalities are possible, I believe ESPN had signs of them.
Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:11 pm
It was either Bowen jacking a shot (what happened to that primacy rating? he took way too many contested or hurried 3's
This was a beta, so the primacy ratings may not have been finalized.
Mon Sep 13, 2004 2:32 pm
sixerfan03 wrote:It was either Bowen jacking a shot (what happened to that primacy rating? he took way too many contested or hurried 3's
This was a beta, so the primacy ratings may not have been finalized.
That's true, but afaik, it was in the version the testers who went to Vancouver played with. But I don't remember too exactly.
Does anyone agree with my feelings? I'm just curious if anyone else notices the same flaws and strengths I do...