Suns Finally Rid Themselves of Eric Bledsoe....

[NovU]

Shut up kid, if you have something personal to say, pm me. Let this board be about basketball only. You been doing this so many times I try not to interfere your business now. Didn't you notice?

[Dee4Three]

Oh, like you claimed that Shareef never played SF, said I was Very Wrong and that it was your home team, only to be totally wrong. Who's obsessed NovU? You are literally a full blown idiot. You are biased towards who you agree with, you lack even basic knowledge of the game, you are an idiot.

Flat out, an idiot. I'm sorry, but anybody that takes you seriously needs to think twice.

I can agree with Shadowgrin (his comment about Hakeem and his face up game) I can agree here and there with Air Gordon, etc. You? You are so concerned with who is on your side, you make yourself look stupid by making up shit to disagree with me or just disagreeing with me for the sake of it.

It's really obvious, and again... you come off as an idiot.

Just stop, because you sound ridiculous. Don't act like I come at you, or that I'm not talking about basketball. I am staying on topic, you are really ridiculous.

[NovU]

Just PM me kid. No need of all that insult publicly.

So you think Shareef was a good big and never soft. Fine I can live with it. Why cant you live with my view? U seem to be obsessed how others think. Grow out of it kid.

[Dee4Three]

No, I am contesting your stance of him being a shitty big. That's all, I am fine with you thinking that, I am not fine with you lying to start shit, making claims and than backpedaling because they were stupid, being biased with who you agree with and don't regardless if you really do or not, you suck in here NovU, the shit you pull fucking stinks.

Stop being a complete and total jackass.

[Dee4Three]

CBS Sports' analysis of the trade is solid. Getting Monroe in return for Bledsoe after banishing the latter and seemingly throwing away any leverage does put the Suns' front office ahead of the Bulls' and Knicks' brass, but all the players leaving with bad blood does indicate a toxic and dysfunctional culture all the same.

The Suns have really turned it around since Watson was fired (and his coaching staff). I wonder if Eric Bledsoe was holding the team back a bit as well and we didn't know it, as in maybe he had a bad attitude in the locker room (unmotivated).

Nice to see them turning it around honestly, I like many of the players on the team. I expect more growth out of Bender, but he's only 19.

[NovU]

No, I am contesting your stance of him being a shitty big. That's all, I am fine with you thinking that, I am not fine with you lying to start shit, making claims and than backpedaling because they were stupid, being biased with who you agree with and don't regardless if you really do or not, you suck in here NovU, the shit you pull fucking stinks.

Stop being a complete and total jackass.

lulz, why would you contest anyone here? See you are the one so fixated trying to prove a point, not me. I share my view and leave at that. You got issues kid.

Monroe is a shitty big by today's standard because he can't be that 1 in 4+1 bball era. Unless he learns to be one of four, his value will always remain low. Shit bigs like Thon Maker and John Henson got nod over Monroe's sorry ass in prime, it tells a lot. Otherwise he is a good basketball player. Same goes with Shareef. What's there to contest here? Nothing, if you do not agree, just "fuck off". Your stupid view of him being a great big because of REB numbers and shit stuff like that isn't gonna change my mind. It's stupid but k thx for sharing.

[Dee4Three]

Literally a moron. Everything I said about you above is true. Shitbag weasel.

"Why would you contest anyone here?" Oh, like when you contested me on him playing SF? You contradict yourself all the time, it makes it impossible to talk to you. Greg Monroe and Shareef were both above average PF'S in the NBA, that is my opinion. You literally lie, and backpedal in conversations. You are a damn fool. And disagreeing is part of this shitbag, that's right.. disagreeing. We are in a basketball forum discussing and debating basketball, are you fucking blind. What the hell is wrong with you? If someone tells me that Monroe is soft, backpedals and says its just Shareef, that's being a damn tool. If someone says that an all star power forward who averaged 21 and 9 is soft and SHITTY at his position, I will contest that if I disagree with it. Nobody is SHITTY at the PF position if they make the damn all star team and average over 20 points and almost 10 boards. You fought me on the SF thing, claiming its your home team, but you were proven 100% wrong, proving again that you have no FUCKING clue what you are talking about. You think I have any respect for your dirtbag opinion on Abdur-Rahim, when you just make shit up as you go along? Are you that dense? Will Bledsoe put the Bucks over the top? What the fuck is that? a lame ass attempt by you to change the subject is what it is, No NovU... Bledsoe won't bring the Bucks "Over the top". Don't come at me with lies and garbage and after make it like im obsessed with you, or practice the fuck off mantra started by someone else, another proof that you are a giant fucking tool. I could say the exact same thing as Shadowgrin, or Air Gordon about anything, and you would comment "Fair Points" on them, and with me you would disagree for the fucking sake of it because its me. That is the mark of a goddamn fucking tool.

Your basketball knowledge is shit, your lying and backpedaling is shit, the shit you pull in here fucking stinks. And you want to make a comment about PMing you if I am calling you names? How is that any worse than you being a condescending fucking prick? That's right, "Kid". You try and beat your chest like a tough guy, meanwhile all surrounding the beating of your chest is lies, contradictions, condescending, and full blown garbage basketball knowledge.

The shit you pull in here fucking stinks.

Keep being a tool in here, you are great at it.

[air gordon]

Lol good morning. Glad you had your coffee

Can't pass up that deal if youre the bucks. But Need some help down low. Love had his way last night

[Dee4Three]

I agree, I actually think it was a good deal both ways.

Curious how Bledsoe will blend with Brogdon and company. I think he fits that system, hopefully he comes in motivated and ready to work.

I do however wonder how he will fair playing off the ball more. Giannis is not only a one man fastbreak, but he brings the ball up quite a bit as well. Can Bledsoe be really effective on the wing at times?

We will see.

[hova-]

My two cents on some of the stuff here:

- Abdur-Rahim actually started his career as an SF iirc, he played that position with the Grizzlies and still later on with the Hawks. He had some serious mid range game. Then somehow later on he looked like he gained too much weight and was moved to PF. While he played more with his back to the basket, I thought he just got worse because of the weight gain and lack of mobility/size combination.

- Eric Bledsoe for Greg Monroe and this very protected pick is a shitty trade for the Suns. Monroe has no value on a lottery team as he is no game changer but rather a role player. He is actually a mixture of hard an soft imho, a bit like David West. He likes to bang for rebounds but he does not really have a "tough" offensive game as he does lack athleticism and has soft hands and a decent basketball IQ. So just like West he has a big body and loves to get boards, but prefers softer shots instead of dunking or slashing. Monroe does not strive in the new small ball ("4+1) system, but when you look at the Warriors for example I think he would fit in well, just like other teams who love to pass the ball - Spurs or Jazz ...

- Can Bledsoe play off the ball? Well, he has improved his three pointer a lot and he never has been a great floor general. Further he has the possibility to go to the basket after off ball screens or take the shot. I remember him as a backup for the Clippers where he never ran the show but played more off the ball. He was pretty good at that time. It's maybe his ego that will cause problems in this regard?

My opinion on this stuff. Now keep on fighting

[Dee4Three]

My two cents on some of the stuff here:

- Abdur-Rahim actually started his career as an SF iirc, he played that position with the Grizzlies and still later on with the Hawks. He had some serious mid range game. Then somehow later on he looked like he gained too much weight and was moved to PF. While he played more with his back to the basket, I thought he just got worse because of the weight gain and lack of mobility/size combination.

- Eric Bledsoe for Greg Monroe and this very protected pick is a shitty trade for the Suns. Monroe has no value on a lottery team as he is no game changer but rather a role player. He is actually a mixture of hard an soft imho, a bit like David West. He likes to bang for rebounds but he does not really have a "tough" offensive game as he does lack athleticism and has soft hands and a decent basketball IQ. So just like West he has a big body and loves to get boards, but prefers softer shots instead of dunking or slashing. Monroe does not strive in the new small ball ("4+1) system, but when you look at the Warriors for example I think he would fit in well, just like other teams who love to pass the ball - Spurs or Jazz ...

- Can Bledsoe play off the ball? Well, he has improved his three pointer a lot and he never has been a great floor general. Further he has the possibility to go to the basket after off ball screens or take the shot. I remember him as a backup for the Clippers where he never ran the show but played more off the ball. He was pretty good at that time. It's maybe his ego that will cause problems in this regard?

My opinion on this stuff. Now keep on fighting

I agree about Monroes fit, in fact I have seen some articles that said he would be great on the Spurs if he gets bought out, or even the Celtics.

Bledsoe with improved 3 point range will obviously help off the ball. If he can fit into a Eric Gordon type nitch I think it will absolutely work.

And yes on Rahim. He played all of his years with the Grizzlies at the SF position, switched to PF with Atlanta (First year he was there he was an all star), and still was decently productive with Portland though he did look a bit more out of shape.

I like Monroe, I actually hope that he lands on a team that can compete. Another guy I like at the PF position that I would like to find a new home is Kenneth Faried. He is the odd man out on the Nuggets because of the number of bigs they have, but he still has plenty left in the tank. I think he could be a key contributor on a contender who needs someone at that PF position.

[hova-]

When Faried fell out of the rotation I was really surprised - he was living on the NBAs highlight reels in his first two years. I don't know if injuries were also a problem, but he somehow did not appear anymore in the top ten with dunks or blocks.

After watching a few Mavs games vs the Nuggets in the last two years it was possible to see that his basketball IQ is not very good. He gets many charging calls against him because he does not have any decent moves when going to the rim. His back to the basket game is still very raw and for the future he could also have problems on the defensive end when he will regress athletically.

Maybe he just needs more playing time and a solid PG at his side though to run the screen&roll, get some alleyoops and go for offensive boards after the shot. Could play a role like Theis or Baynes with the Cs maybe? But I think he will never be more than that.

[Dee4Three]

Agreed about his lack of repertoire. Where he got most of his points were off his energy and athleticism. But in todays NBA where players like Marcus Smart not only exceed but Excel with that type of energy, I would hope Faried could find a spot on a team and be part of a regular rotation.

His days of being on highlight reels are probably gone because he can't even get on the floor (And if he has one it will be a rare scene). But hopefully he finds a spot somewhere. I like players that really put it all out there when they are playing, I feel like every team needs guys like that. For the Celtics in 07-08, it was Leon Powe and Tony Allen. Maybe Faried can be the Leon Powe on a contender.

[Andrew]

I don't think players like Faried are completely outmoded or irrelevant in today's league, but his lack of offensive versatility (and in particular, three-point shooting) does hurt him. If nothing else, it causes him to be overlooked. When the threes aren't falling, a player with his hustle and rebounding abilities can still shine. Look at all the extra possessions Tristan Thompson snared for the Cavaliers in the 2016 NBA Finals. That was an underrated part of their comeback from being down 3-1.

[Sauru]

Shut up kid, if you have something personal to say, pm me. Let this board be about basketball only. You been doing this so many times I try not to interfere your business now. Didn't you notice?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Dee4Three]

I don't think players like Faried are completely outmoded or irrelevant in today's league, but his lack of offensive versatility (and in particular, three-point shooting) does hurt him. If nothing else, it causes him to be overlooked. When the threes aren't falling, a player with his hustle and rebounding abilities can still shine. Look at all the extra possessions Tristan Thompson snared for the Cavaliers in the 2016 NBA Finals. That was an underrated part of their comeback from being down 3-1.

Totally. Like when I mentioned Powe above, he could be a big difference maker on a contender.

I think any team can benefit from a Faried type. I know I certainly wouldn't have an issue with him on the C's.

[hova-]

I don't think players like Faried are completely outmoded or irrelevant in today's league, but his lack of offensive versatility (and in particular, three-point shooting) does hurt him. If nothing else, it causes him to be overlooked. When the threes aren't falling, a player with his hustle and rebounding abilities can still shine. Look at all the extra possessions Tristan Thompson snared for the Cavaliers in the 2016 NBA Finals. That was an underrated part of their comeback from being down 3-1.

Totally. Like when I mentioned Powe above, he could be a big difference maker on a contender.

I think any team can benefit from a Faried type. I know I certainly wouldn't have an issue with him on the C's.

I think there are always players who have their story written in the Playoffs. You named Powe as an example. I remember JJ Barea being the spark plug of the Mavericks in 2011. At that time he was considered too small and he did not have the solid outside stroke he has now. But he is a competitor and he just kept fighting on every single possession, driving amongst the trees drawing foul after foul.

These stories will always happen, but I am not sure if GMs even anticipate that. As Andrew said lacking a three point shot in today's game pretty much gets you out of the rotation. It's not only the fact that you cannot hit the actual shot when open, but the fact that the defense will play you differently, back off, help out on every possession as they can leave you open etc.

It would be cool if Faried could somehow find his way though. Setting solid screens and hustling on the board is indeed very valuable. Being undersized is not that much of a problem anymore. If he could just become a 30% three point shooter, he would already be okay I guess.

[Andrew]

A big who can't shoot threes can alternatively make an impact if they have a great post-up game, and/or are a great passer. Even a solid midrange game will still keep the defense honest. Unfortunately, that's not Faried, either. He can still have an impact on the boards and defensively, but he's lost in the shuffle on offense.

[NovU]

Faried is a good player but a shitty big.

Is someone gonna contest me for saying this with?
"OH BUT HE AVGED SO MANY REB! HE IS A GOOD PF GOOD BIG!"
followed by excuses starting with "I never said" "I watched" "I meant" "You are" "You said"


lolz, sick stuff

[Dee4Three]

NovU, might be best to bow out of this one at this point. Your opinion is irrelevant considering the shit you pulled in this thread.

And Hova, the 2011 Mavericks playoff run is one of my favorites in NBA History, I was glued to the tv. The Mavericks and Barea frustrated the Lakers so much, it made Bynum put the cheapest hit of all time on JJ.

Barea was absolutely the spark plug off the bench, that's a great example. What a feisty little bastard, at all times.

I don't think it's as much as Faried developing a three point shot, I think it's more him having a semblance of a mid range game. I like Faried as a player more than the Julius Randles out there, and while Randle got put on the bench, he is still part of the regular rotation for the Lakers. I think Faried is just at a logjam in that position with Denver.

Van Gundy was saying it last night about Monroe, Monroe is a fine player. He thinks both teams got a good deal with that one. Like I said about Monroe, if he can land on a team that needs his services where there isn't a logjam at his position, he can either start at the PF position or be a vital player off the bench. I feel like Faried and Monroes situations as players are kind of similar.

[NovU]

Thought you would want to share why Faried is a good big. Or you might want to admit you just didnt understand what I said by 'good player' and 'good big man'. Rather than copping out and resorting to childish name callings try living up to your mistake, son.

No matter how you sugarcoat it, Monroe and Faried are shit bigs. There is a reason why they have such hard time breaking the rotation despite putting up big numbers in the past. Just look at who are in front of them in rotation, its factual they are treated as shit bigs. I speak the fact you speak your feeling. K thx now.

[Dee4Three]

I am literally going to have to talk around you because you bring nothing to this conversation.

We are having a discussion of where these players would fit best, and what they may need to work on or atleast have as a skillset to get more minutes. These bigs may be average at this point, or slightly above average, but they are not and were not SHIT bigs. While we talk about these players strengths and weaknesses, you just want to keep saying they are shit.

It's like talking to an adult but continually getting interrupted by a 12 year old who lies, contradicts himself, backpedals when he is caught, and just says things to get attention.

I'm going to attempt to talk around you at this point.

[NovU]

What I did was illustrating your deficiency in understanding of someone else's argument which led to thousand of you crying like 9 year old. Now you cant even argue my initial statement which you were contesting for ur lil mans pride. I hope we could avoid this next time, seriously.

[Dee4Three]

Which statement? The one lying about him not ever being a SF? The one about calling Monroe soft and backpedaling? Or the one calling the 21 and 9 PF a shitty big?

You are ruining the conversation. Butt out if you cant admit you were wrong and are just going to be a baby.

[Dee4Three]

I think another point that has been lost in this conversation is the age of the players we are talking about. While not old, in fact primed age, they are sitting behind younger developing assets. If management thinks that these guys have hit their ceiling, and that they are not immediate contenders, guys like Monroe and Faried can be the odd man out.

Not because they are not good big men, or average big man, but because they are literally the odd man out because they are no longer developing pieces.

I think that Monroe and Faried are still quality players at the Power Forward position, I think they are just the odd men out.