Resting Players

So, this is something that's causing some frustration and debate these days. The practice of resting players is becoming more and more common, and it's happening more frequently in marquee, nationally televised games than it used to. The networks aren't happy, fans aren't happy, and the league front office isn't too thrilled either. Of course, the practice has also been defended.

It seems to be broken down like this...

The Argument Against:

• Players back in the day didn't take games off unless they were really banged up, and generally took pride in playing as many games as possible; players today are soft and coddled.
• Right now, teams can announce scratches from the lineup very late in the proceedings, which is unfair to opponents and fans alike.
• As Jeff Van Gundy noted, to get tickets for certain games, fans often need to buy packages, in essence having to spend more money to see a marquee game where players sit out.
• Players these days have access to better treatment facilities compared to their predecessors, who as previously noted, still toughed it out regardless.
• Players who sit because they're allegedly banged up seemingly have miraculous recoveries when they play a night later; one night of rest couldn't possibly be enough to yield such a result, making the situation questionable.
• Players are getting a lot of money to play basketball, and don't give any of that money up when they rest. Few people in other vocations could take days off as casually as they do, or are not financially secure enough to do so.

The Argument For:

• Better treatment facilities and understanding of sports medicine favours rest; we know more than we used to about these things.
• Comparisons to older generations are based on nostalgia, "young people today" grumbling rhetoric, and "Old man yells at cloud" thinking.
• Today's game is faster/more physical than it used to be, with an increased risk of injury.
• Being a professional athlete isn't like other vocations, so any comparisons regarding workload or pay are difficult/unfair.
• Player health and well-being needs to be put ahead of fan desires, both in consideration of them as human beings, and as expensive investments by owners.
• It's a long NBA season, and the Playoffs are far more important anyway.

There's probably a couple more, but that's the gist of it.

For my part, I can see the benefit of rest, and look, if a player is actually really banged up or injured, then obviously he sits out. As Van Gundy said, there's a distinction between feeling disappointed that a player isn't able to play, and feeling ripped off because a player who is relatively healthy has chosen to take the night off. I find the claim that players are more injury prone today because the league is faster, more physical, or more athletic, somewhat dubious to say the least. It's true that we can fall victim to nostalgia and place the older generations on a pedestal, but they faced the same risks and without the advances in sports medicine that players today benefit from. The pride to play in as many games as possible, to compete from start to finish, is admirable. A lot of great players who were physical and athletic sat out very few games that weren't due to suspension or serious injury. The late scratches are at least bordering on being unsportsmanlike, and not quite on the level as far as the business/entertainment side of the sport is concerned.

Basically, I'd agree that there are times when rest is appropriate, but we're seeing it too much in marquee games that stars of the past would've prided themselves in playing, and it's going beyond resting the weary of legs of veterans who are getting up there in age, and have a lot of miles on the odometer. It's a bit on the nose when players are apparently too banged up to play, but a night later, they look fresh as a daisy, fresher than they should from just one night's rest in March. Given the expense of tickets and the fact fans often do have to buy packages in order to get tickets to certain marquee games, there are things that need to be addressed.

To Adam Silver's credit, it's something the league wants to address:

NBA commissioner Adam Silver has called the practice of teams resting marquee players "an extremely signifcant issue for our league" in a memo to league owners Monday obtained ‎by ESPN.

In the memo, Silver informed teams that the issue will be a prime topic of discussion at the next NBA Board of Governors meeting April 6 in New York and warned of ‎"signifcant penalties" for teams that don't abide by the league's standing rules for providing ‎"notice to the league office, their opponent, and the media immediately upon a determination that a player will not participate in a game due to rest.

Silver also warns that teams will suffer "significant penalties" if they don't provide adequate notice when it's decided that a player will not play due to rest. There are league rules that govern when and how teams must notify the league office, their opponent and the media about such decisions.

On Monday, ESPN released a statement about the teams resting their star players during nationally televised games.

"As always, our aim is to serve NBA fans with the best matchups involving the league's top stars and we share the fans' disappointment. We understand this is a complex issue and we're working closely with the NBA to best address it going forward from a media partnership standpoint, " the statement said.

I think that's fair. I remember back in the day, if a player went on the inactive list, they had to miss at least five games. The thinking was that if you're so banged up that you can't dress for a game, you probably need more than a night off.

As you might expect, older players have been outspoken about the issue. Karl Malone, not known for taking nights off during his lengthy NBA career, opined "If you don't have at least 10 years experience, get your ass playing. It's not work, it's called playing. Besides, tell our underpaid service members and police and first responders to rest." This resulted in Kelly Dwyer writing an article that kind of missed the point, made excuses, and dismissed an opinion because he didn't like it. At least he didn't use the word "hater", I guess.

It also resulted in this somewhat disrespectful, ad hominem-fuelled post on Facebook:



Look, I'm not a fan of Karl Malone. He's done and said some pretty stupid and ridiculous things, including a couple that make him kind of a garbage human being. He also did choke in some big moments, and although he went to three NBA Finals, he didn't win it all. However, all of that is irrelevant to his point, making that a rather cheap shot and tired non-argument. Are we to assume that those words would automatically carry more weight if they were said by Shaq (four championships), MJ (six championships), or Bill Russell (eleven championships)? Malone is still a Hall of Fame player, who played 19 years in the NBA and seldom missed a game until his final year with the Lakers, when injury struck. He's more than qualified to talk about this.

And on that note, if the lack of a championship disqualifies Malone from commenting on the situation, or invalidates his opinion, then Kelly Dwyer's commentary, as well as the comments from people on the article saying he should "hush up" and whatnot, are even more out of line. After all, not only do us fans and Kelly Dwyer alike lack an NBA championship, we haven't even had an NBA career! Malone's accomplishments as a professional basketball player are still more than 99.9% of the population has achieved when it comes to the sport. If he should "hush up", then the rest of us definitely have to "zip our lips". Funny how a lot of people don't see the hypocrisy, though.

I was just watching an interview with Byron Scott and Richard Jefferson and they gave some interesting insights about resting players:

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My take on it is, why do they have to pull the players out of the games completely. How about just reducing minutes? Or do it the Iverson way and just skip practice. In some of these DNP games, the star players actually suited up for games. Or are they concerned that putting players in for reduced minutes will hurt their stats? Whatever happened to playing for the fans.

Some of what Jefferson says has merit, but overall I think he's wide of the mark. The MVP acknowledges a standout player in the current season. What LeBron did in the NBA Finals last year is irrelevant to this year's regular season MVP race; he already has two trophies to show for that performance. For what it's worth, Westbrook, Leonard, and Harden all top him in PER, ranking first, second, and third in the league respectively. That said, LeBron is having another fine season, and he's Jefferson's teammate, so fair enough.

As far as sitting out games for rest hurting MVP chances, it's an interesting question. I don't think it should be a hard and fast rule, especially when a player ends up playing at least 90% of the season anyway. At the same time, since the question has been broached, I can't help but feel there's something to that. If you're going to acknowledge one standout player and you're looking to differentiate between the frontrunners, maybe you do favour the guy who's gone out there night and night out, and not taken any games off for rest. If anything, you might consider it a tiebreaker, rather than a disqualification.

I agree with the idea of reduced minutes, or excusing them from practice. Surely that makes more sense, especially excusing them from practice, since those are at the team's discretion and not part of the competitive schedule. The season is long and it could be argued that a game here or there doesn't matter, but it adds up, and can have implications with Playoff seeding and tiebreakers. The Cavs haven't locked up homecourt throughout the first round, and they've looked vulnerable at times this year. You'd think they wouldn't want to give any games away right now. Forget pride and old school mentality and all that; resting their players could cost them an advantage in the postseason.

i must say that resting players is horrible for the fans. i remember buying tickets to the hawks when the celtics came to town back when they had the big 3 thing going on. well it was near the end of the season and their spot was already locked in so they decided to rest all 3 of them. it was horrible. i paid for seats in the 7th row to see these guys and none of them played. from a fans point of view its the worst possible thing and because of it i will no longer buy tickets to a basketball game near the end of a season.


however from a business point of view i fully get it. the spurs have proven that resting your players from time to time helps a lot so i get it.

Reducing minutes seem to be the more viable option for teams, much like what's done in the preseason.

Don't think there's a solution to satisfy all parties. Owners have a lot of $ invested in their money makers and the players have a strong union

I'd like to see less back to backs and less games overall

The fans do get screwed. Most teams impose an extra charge for the premium matchups. I'd for one would lose it if brought the family or out of towners to watch the bulls play whoever and the marquee names sit out for "rest"

I think Malone would still be playing if had access to what the current plays have now

Fewer back to backs is a good idea. The league has already been working towards cutting them, but further reductions would be appropriate.

Why don't they make the schedules more player friendly? Push the playoffs back and spread the games out a little more. It's funny that these teams are resting players on the big TV games, but it does suck for fans who paid to watch. The cavs did come off of 4 games in 6 nights before that clippers game

Also, didn't giving players more time off during the all Star break create a more compressed schedule as well?

Supposedly that's what they'll be doing, spreading it out more by reducing the preseason and starting the regular season a little earlier, in order to reduce back to backs and other rough scheduling.

This is a smart move in this schedule. A wiser schedule would reduce resting. For instance, to reduce resting chance for a nationally televised game, you would give a day-off or two, or give a matchup against a lower-seed team (like Nets or Magic).

A wiser schedule would be for Cavs:

Day 1: @Nets
Day 2: @Celtics (on ABC)

or

Day 1: Suns
Day 2: @Warriors (on TNT)

or

Day 1: Clippers
Day 2: REST
Day 3: Warriors (on ESPN)

Scheduling an "easy" opponent before a tough one isn't always going to be feasible. Travel, building availability, and the unpredictability of a particular team turning out to be better or worse than expected is going to throw a wrench in those plans at some point. However, making sure that teams don't play the night before a marquee matchup on national TV might be a way of discouraging the practice, so that's a good idea.

Meanwhile, having given away a few games where players have rested, the Cavs now have the Celtics snapping at their heels, just a game behind them for the top seed.

This resting thing is crazy.. im sorry.

These guys are not even hurt, I don't want to hear that the game is more physical/athletic now, or any of that nonsense. Yes, there are back to backs, but rest is happening outside of those back to backs. The fans pay the players salary, without the fans the players/league doesn't exist. Jordan played all 82 games at the age of 39/40, You didn't see Stockton/Malone taking rest days, you didn't see that stuff before. Now the players sound like a bunch of babies.

The fans deserve better, this is garbage.

ALSO: they really shouldn't deviate from the traditional 82 games, it can impact history and how players are stacked up against other players. Now, I agree with starting the season EARLIER, I think that is a great idea. 2 or 3 weeks earlier, that would give the coaches/players less excuses.

Iam totally against resting players and it's something that me and my mates played victim too back in 06 when we had a lads holiday from England to Orlando, we got tickets too 4 Magic games (Celtics, Clippers, Bobcats and Heat) we paid extra for the Heat game only to find out an hour or so before tip that Shaq and Wade were not going to play!

If you want to rest players then reduce there minutes by half for some games but don't just give them the night off.

isiah thomas made some great points about this. calling it entertainment he asked what would happen if you paid to see a singer and they sent the back up on stage. never really thought about it like that. i mean when it happened to me it pissed me off but i leaned towards the players side as a championship is the ultimate goal. however all people talk about is how much better sports medicine is today and how much more athletic these players are so why do they need days off? then when you think about the point thomas made, fans pay top dollar to see the best players and when they do not play you are basically ripping off the fans. the second a team lands a big name tickets prices soar so yeah i am now on the side that this is some straight up bullshit

Not only is sports medicine better, but I don't think players are at any higher risk of injury than they used to be, or that the game is more physical or demanding, or anything like that. Players also travel in a lot more comfort than they used to as well, which is one of the reasons they've recently changed the NBA Finals series back to 2-2-1-1-1, rather than the 2-3-2 that it was for around three decades.

What I find to be rather ridiculous is when players have a full contact practice on Day 1, rest and sit out a game on Day 2, and then return to play in a game on Day 3, fresh as a daisy and showing no signs of fatigue, especially if the rest for them sitting the night before is given as some kind of mild injury/soreness. With such miraculous cures at their disposal, you'd think players would never miss a game unless they were seroiusly injured, or show any signs of fatigue when there's a day or two between games. Frankly, it's insulting everyone's intelligence.

It's completely stupid to play your best players for no advantage. Oh, the fans didn't get to see them play one game? Boo hoo.

Just because some teams ground past players into dust (or those players stupidly gave themselves a life of pain for little gain) is no justification to damage your investment now. Not only from a business perspective, but a winning one.

When you see other teams doing something stupid, you don't copy it just because. Or because people did stupidly in the past.

Sorry that stuff like being smart about the human body interferes in your personal emotions like precautions regarding CTE does for football/hockey/xtreme sports.

Hopefully Silver continues to be smart about this and his statement is just being sly like his gambling comments.

What I find to be rather ridiculous is when players have a full contact practice on Day 1, rest and sit out a game on Day 2, and then return to play in a game on Day 3, fresh as a daisy and showing no signs of fatigue, especially if the rest for them sitting the night before is given as some kind of mild injury/soreness. With such miraculous cures at their disposal, you'd think players would never miss a game unless they were seroiusly injured, or show any signs of fatigue when there's a day or two between games. Frankly, it's insulting everyone's intelligence.

You mentioned this twice now but what is ridiculous about it? Isn't it statistically proven players generally play better when rested? Personally speaking as a guy just trying to stay in shape I will have a better workout if there's a rest day between them. My knees and ankles sure agree

Benji, your argument stinks

What I find to be rather ridiculous is when players have a full contact practice on Day 1, rest and sit out a game on Day 2, and then return to play in a game on Day 3, fresh as a daisy and showing no signs of fatigue, especially if the rest for them sitting the night before is given as some kind of mild injury/soreness. With such miraculous cures at their disposal, you'd think players would never miss a game unless they were seroiusly injured, or show any signs of fatigue when there's a day or two between games. Frankly, it's insulting everyone's intelligence.

You mentioned this twice now but what is ridiculous about it? Isn't it statistically proven players generally play better when rested? Personally speaking as a guy just trying to stay in shape I will have a better workout if there's a rest day between them. My knees and ankles sure agree

The seemingly magical recovery, from completely banged up and in no way able to play, to fresh as a daisy and showing no ill effects the very next day, is ridiculous. As I also said, quite often resting players will be listed as having some kind of injury that surely wouldn't be 100% better with 24 hours' rest; it's insulting everyone's intelligence when teams do that.

Once again, I think the league should be looking at ways to give players more rest by reducing or eliminating back-to-backs. No doubt about that.

That hasn't been the rule for years now, players can be inactive for any reason.

Popp destroys all the babies who hate proper investment management:

San Antonio Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said such involvement could create “a slippery slope” capable of undermining relationships inside organizations.

“I understand Adam’s concern, and it’s a legitimate concern. We all have it. We all feel badly about [it],” Popovich said Saturday. “I think they used the example of the young man and his dad or whatever. They’ve saved up their money. They want to go see somebody play, and that person’s not there. I get it. If it was me, I’d be miffed myself. But we all have different roles, different jobs, and different goals. We can’t satisfy everybody. But I think that every owner’s gonna be different. I think it’s a slippery slope, and makes it difficult to keep trust, and camaraderie to the degree that I think you have to have to be successful in this league if owners get too involved in what coaches and GMs are doing.”

Just three games into the season, Popovich started to rest players, beginning with San Antonio’s Oct. 29 matchup at home against New Orleans. Since then, Popovich has rested a total of six players for a combined 19 games, including Danny Green, who sat out the club’s 106-98 victory Saturday night over the New York Knicks.

...

Popovich indicated that the trust developed among himself, general manager R.C. Buford and Spurs ownership is what has helped the organization build the culture the rest of the league appears to be trying to replicate.

“I think keeping owners informed about what’s going on is mandatory, and having input is fine,” Popovich said. “But I think there has to be an understanding that coaches and GMs have brains also, and we know who pays the bills. It’s a slippery slope, I think, if owners got too involved in that process. That trust relationship in those three areas is really important in creating a culture and making something that can be long-lasting. I’ve been here over 20 years. I think that says it all. They just let us do our jobs. We keep them informed as we should. And the chips fall where they may. If we’re not successful, I’m sure we’ll be gone just like anybody’s gone if things don’t work out well.”

Popovich expressed confidence, however, that league ownership, the NBA’s various partners, and coaches and general managers around the league can come to some type of agreement that would be palatable for all involved.

“The one comment that I’ve heard that makes a lot of sense, is that if you’re gonna rest somebody, if you can do it at home, then you should. Like, we’re resting Danny Green tonight,” Popovich said. “Danny Green is not LeBron James, but if we rested Kawhi [Leonard], if there’s a way we could do it at home, that seems like a logical thing to me; a reasonable thing that a coach or GM should think about, rather [than] that one time somebody’s gonna watch him play someplace else, if you can do it. Sometimes the schedule dictates differently. But that makes sense to me. So I think there can be areas like that where we come together and try to make everybody happy. But that’s why no basic rule has been written, so to speak. Because you can’t write a rule that covers everything. It’s complicated ... kind of like health care.”

Well, for whatever it's worth, not all current players are fans of the approach.

Rockets G Pat Beverley on the DNP-Rest trend: "I think that's bulls---. I think that's a disgrace to this league. I think that fans deserve better. I could care less about coaches ask players to rest or not.

That said, I doubt he'd object to fewer back-to-backs. So again, by all means look at making the schedule more player-friendly.

remember when patrick beverley had a scuffle against lebron james...

remember when patrick beverley had a scuffle against lebron james...

I don't think that has anything to do with his comment, he seems passionate about it and has his facts to back up his stance.

I agree 100% with him.

give the fans back their money then

schedule nationally televised games for teams not on a back to back game

the pops buford dynamic is an outlier.

It's completely stupid to play your best players for no advantage. Oh, the fans didn't get to see them play one game? Boo hoo.

Just because some teams ground past players into dust (or those players stupidly gave themselves a life of pain for little gain) is no justification to damage your investment now. Not only from a business perspective, but a winning one.

When you see other teams doing something stupid, you don't copy it just because. Or because people did stupidly in the past.

Sorry that stuff like being smart about the human body interferes in your personal emotions like precautions regarding CTE does for football/hockey/xtreme sports.

Hopefully Silver continues to be smart about this and his statement is just being sly like his gambling comments.

there is 2 ways of thinking for sure about this and i always was on this side of the fence until i realized that basketball is a league of stars and people pay to see the stars. maybe they should give a partial refund when teams rest all their star players. i mean this of course will never happen because like any business once a company has your money they keep it but it would be a lot better than saying "fuck what the fans think" because you know,the fans are the only reason these guys have the job they do