Chicago Bulls Thread

[air gordon]

Rose has fancied himself as a pure point guard so i don't see a problem him being a distributor. it's a trap to believe what he says but what else can we go off of? haha

at the least, he needs to continue to push the ball every opportunity. he's seem to have a found a comfort zone in that midrange banker. there will be shots for him. Gasol, Niko, and now Butler have shown to be good passers.

it's the Free Bobby Portis effect. opponents are already flopping to counter his ultra aggression. Lowry got away with a flop and now one against the buck. just gotta enjoy the ride. Noah's eventually coming back

[Andrew]

Hopefully he can still get a bit of a run when Noah returns. If nothing else, I think he's proven himself capable of stepping up in the event that everyone's healthy but a couple of players ahead of him in the rotation get into foul trouble, as well as a good prospect for the future...perhaps sooner rather than later, if Gasol is indeed headed back to Memphis next year.

[air gordon]

Gasol is gone. He's proven he can still play. he's going to look for the last big payday.

Would you trade him??

[Andrew]

It's probably not worth it. I doubt anyone's going to give up good assets for a half-season rental. Finish out the year with one last run with him, let him walk if he walks (as would seem to be the foregone conclusion at this point), and then regroup with Noah, Gibson, and Portis.

[NovU]

I think he'll be willing to take Duncan-Dirk route and take a pay cut. Which loser wants to pay 36 yo guy big dollars, would Pau be happy playing for a loser in twilight years, or which contender wants to pay big for a guy that will require scheduled rest and min restriction?

Keep him.

[Moz]

a few thinking out loud thoughts about Rose. during Rose's rehab(s)- was he working on his jump shot, specifically his 3pt shot? that shot is so flat it's almost like dwight howard's superman "dunk" in the dunk contest a few years back. Niko can swish a near mid court 3pter while Rose's heave is a predestined brick.

I remember back then Hoiberg was giving shooting mechanics lessons on youtube so why not give him one and also bring Noah with him...

Gasol is gone. He's proven he can still play. he's going to look for the last big payday.

Would you trade him??

I reckon it's too late for that now, chemistry-wise... I would rather trade Mirotic than Gasol at the moment while he's streaking. Everybody knows that it's either the Bulls or the Grizzlies so teams will not risk a serviceable player or draft picks for him...

Everything is clicking at the moment. They're still allowing tons of second chance points but I reckon everything will be fine once Noah returns. Brooks is having some DNPs at the moment... If anyone on the roster that will be dealt, I reckon he's the one or he'll be part of it. Can't complain though since Hinrich is healthy and doing good as Rose's reliever (and of course Rose is healthy also). Snell is playing aggressive, McBuckets' shots are falling and Crazy Eyes Bobby is showing everyone that he's the steal of the draft. Now let's see how MDJ will gel in.

[air gordon]

Fair enough. I agree the chemistry is good so leave it as is. I bet if the bulls put both pau and niko for sale, there will be some good offers on the table

Are you guys comfortable if/when Pau leaves, Noah would be the only center in the team?

There have been reports of Hoiberg working with Rose on his shot...having him use a higher release point

Heard brooks has a veto clause in his contract.

Can't wait until Mjd comes back. Garpax will be forced to clear up some roster space

[Andrew]

Yes and no. If Gasol is gone leaving Noah as the only centre, I'd hope that they would pick up another big who's a "natural" five to share minutes in the middle. However, with the league trending towards small ball, they might be able to get away with playing Gibson at centre more often.

[Moz]

I'm more concerned about who'll be that other go to guy than who will backup Noah (and that's if he's re-signed) regarding Gasol... Yeh he tends to be a liability on the defensive end but he's a dependable scorer and playmaker, making it easier for Butler and especially Rose to deal carrying the load on offense. As Andrew mentioned, the trend of today's game is small ball so they shouldn't worry that much if their next guy is at 6'9/6'10. They did alright when Asik left so there's nothing to worry, with how we are seeing Bobby Portis is playing, regarding the frontcourt rotation.

Watching the Knicks for quite some time now, are you guys relieved that they didn't pick up Arron Afflalo? He doesn't do much anything but shoot jumpshots, that "defensively dependable" guy that the analyst are raving is nowhere, and (although he explodes every now and then) is inconsistent as fuck...

[Andrew]

He is coming off an injury, so you've got to give him that. He can be pretty good when he's got it dialled in. That said, I'm not really disappointed that they didn't get him. There's not really room for him in the rotation, anyway.

[air gordon]

I'm more concerned about who'll be that other go to guy than who will backup Noah (and that's if he's re-signed) regarding Gasol..

not trying to look too far ahead but while we're on topic: are you guys even comfortable with Noah as the center if Pau is gone? a lot of question marks with Noah's health

Phat- you talked about the recent bulls problems of giving up offensive rebounds and also taking into account last year's playoffs- they are going to need some help. the small ball theory does hold some weight but consider the bigs in the East (some are impending free agents but let's just assume they stay):
Mozgov
Brook Lopez
Okafor/Noel
JV
Drummond
Monroe
Horford
Bosh/Whiteside
Vucevic
Gortat

the bulls were okay when Asik left because Noah was at the top of his game. Wow was that just several years ago!

Yeh he tends to be a liability on the defensive end but he's a dependable scorer and playmaker, making it easier for Butler and especially Rose to deal carrying the load on offense...

the loss will be big no doubt. After Butler, who is the next guy up?? if we are just looking at pick and pop situations, Pau has been a beast in the midrange/long 2, i believe shooting >50% (!). i would like to see Niko put in those situations, but instead run that screen at the 3pt line.

Perhaps we saw a true glimpse of Hoiberg ball in that short stretch of games when Rose was out. the Ports-Niko-Dougie-Butler-Brooks/Hinrich lineup had some good runs. lots of spacing with each player "capable" of hitting a perimeter shot and able to get out on the break.

with how we are seeing Bobby Portis is playing,

he is the wild card. i believe there is a lot riding on Niko developing into something but if this guy is as good as we hope, this would be like the bulls getting their own Draymond Green.

Watching the Knicks for quite some time now, are you guys relieved that they didn't pick up Arron Afflalo? He doesn't do much anything but shoot jumpshots, that "defensively dependable" guy that the analyst are raving is nowhere, and (although he explodes every now and then) is inconsistent as fuck...

yeah he has been garbage since he was traded from denver to portland. thank goodness he's not in a bulls uni

last thing- would you guys be open to resigning Gasol? we've gone through his positives and negatives. i agree he'll want to go to a contender and with the TV money coming through, he will get paid. it would take a multi-year contract to resign him IMO

[Andrew]

I'd be open to it. His age and the negatives are a concern, but it's not as though he doesn't bring anything at all to the table. So yeah, I wouldn't be against them keeping him, if it's a possibility. The multi-million dollar question is, how much do you give him? It's difficult to gauge right now, the way salaries are changing. $10-15 million is almost the new $5-8 million, what with the ballooning salaries. What may have once seemed like overpaying is arguably now fair market value, even a bargain in some cases.

I'm not as comfortable with Noah as the starting centre as I once was, because of his health and regression offensively. However, I think it'll work out fine as long as Gasol's scoring can be replaced, and they pick up some serviceable journeyman big to provide insurance off the bench, to give them a couple of options in addition to small ball.

[Moz]

not trying to look too far ahead but while we're on topic: are you guys even comfortable with Noah as the center if Pau is gone? a lot of question marks with Noah's health

I'm encouraged with how he's playing before being sidelined with the shoulder injury (which is not a recurring one) so yes... Just like the usual, let him be the main facilitator and sign/draft/trade for a offensively dependable PF or C (who's also defensively capable) to be paired up with him... Sending Taj back to the 2nd unit and pairing him with a stretch 4 will be fine...

Phat- you talked about the recent bulls problems of giving up offensive rebounds and also taking into account last year's playoffs- they are going to need some help.

They do indeed although today's game is all about the perimeter (also do you noticed that bunch of the offensive boards they're letting are the long ones?)... Team defense (along with their streaking offense) is letting them get away with that problem so, as I've said, having a 2 way PF/C (or perhaps a stretch 3)will be a great addition.

he is the wild card. i believe there is a lot riding on Niko developing into something but if this guy is as good as we hope, this would be like the bulls getting their own Draymond Green.

Crazy that they could've had him instead of Teague

last thing- would you guys be open to resigning Gasol? we've gone through his positives and negatives. i agree he'll want to go to a contender and with the TV money coming through, he will get paid. it would take a multi-year contract to resign him IMO

I reckon it's time to move on with Gasol after this (coincidentally, the Hawks game suggests that)... I'm not dismissing his production with this team but he's making his frontcourt buddies double their work and efforts on the defensive end... I'm probably the only one who will say this but the time Pau got on board, they lose their identity as one of the defensive juggernauts of the league...

[air gordon]

I'm encouraged with how he's playing before being sidelined with the shoulder injury (which is not a recurring one) so yes... Just like the usual, let him be the main facilitator and sign/draft/trade for a offensively dependable PF or C (who's also defensively capable) to be paired up with him... Sending Taj back to the 2nd unit and pairing him with a stretch 4 will be fine...

yeah Noah's per 36 #'s were impressive before the injury. is the stretch 4 you speak of Niko?? haha. 45% from the land of 3 since moving to SF

I reckon it's time to move on with Gasol after this (coincidentally, the Hawks game suggests that)... I'm not dismissing his production with this team but he's making his frontcourt buddies double their work and efforts on the defensive end... I'm probably the only one who will say this but the time Pau got on board, they lose their identity as one of the defensive juggernauts of the league...

i'd be open to it. His age and the negatives are a concern,

it would be a luxury to have Pau come off the bench next year. did not see all of the ATL game but i heard he was being exploited big time on PnR. in the playoffs the bulls opponents will be giving them a heavy dose of that and crashing the boards on offense. to his credit Pau has been remarkable on the pick n pop but he has lost his efficiency in the post. i would like to see the team move in another direction next year if Pau will not accept a role off the bench.

i would like to the see the team invest in a starting caliber SF moreso than a big man.

i was going through some of the numbers when Asik was still on the team. the defensive numbers for the lineups of Asik & Gibson as the c/pf are pretty damn staggering. remember those 2 closing out games?

[NovU]

Perhaps what's really stopping Bulls from reaching next level is Derrick Rose? Shouldn't you guys be talking about trading away Rose, not Gasol, Mirotic, or Butler(lol)? The Bulls has probable legit shot at surpassing CLE as the Eastern powerhouse as long as his replacement comes semi decent.

Derrick played 3rd most minutes for the Bulls this year and the team is absolutely a stinker when he's playing. Only PG that has worse +/- is Mudiay. I am actually surprised the Bulls even have a winning record with Rose averaging so many Minute Played and Usage Rate. In the meantime Gasol is 7th best center in +/-.

At this point, I think we have to consider Rose arguably the WORST PG in this league. At least Mudiay has the bad team around him, Rose doesn't.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... 6/lineups/

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_ ... position/1


And I am talking Jeremy Lin and Mario Chalmers as semi-decent replacement candidates. These perceived 2nd tier losers is what the Bulls needs to dethrone the self proclaimed King LBJ in East. Rose is that 'done'. When Butler is speaking out of frustration, it should be taken as entire insult is directed towards Rose. Team has to work their ass off to make up for his deficiency and he's still given the key to the driver seat.

[Andrew]

We've discussed the prospect of the Bulls trading Rose before. It comes down to one simple question: how?

With his history of injuries, current play, and a couple of years remaining on a big contract, he's not exactly the most tradeable player. It's feasible that a team might take a chance on him, but the Bulls would likely have to take on an even worse contract (or contracts) to get the deal done, and in terms of players and picks, they very likely wouldn't be getting anything useful in return. Ideally, a trade should either make the team better, or put them in a position to get better. I don't think the Bulls can feasibly work out a trade involving Rose that accomplishes either of those things.

I wouldn't call Rose the worst point guard in the league. When I think of the term "worst", I think completely lacking in skill, and virtually unable to do anything positive ever (which Rose has been able to do in flashes). He's certainly inefficient, but inefficiency does not necessarily mean an unskilled or terrible player.

Moving on from Rose is an option that I think a lot of people are open to at this point, but again, we're left with that question. How do you do it, with his low trade value and huge contract?

[air gordon]

Trry and keep up, Novu. The rose issue has already been brought up

Andrew,
Skill or no skills, the numbers don't lie. Even with his flashes/positive performances, it still doesn't skew the data. If we are not evaluating using player performance, what method do you suggest to use instead?

At least there is a slight upward trend in his numbers. Just ignore the turnovers lol

[Andrew]

Oh, I'm certainly not disputing the numbers or the performance. I just feel there's a difference between being the worst player and having the worst performance, but granted, it's splitting hairs and getting into a semantics debate. At the end of the day, he's performing below expectations, which of course makes it difficult to trade him. Whether they're trading him or he's a part of the plans moving forward, either way they need him to play better. Until then, they're kind of in limbo as far as he's concerned, which is frustrating.

Meanwhile, he's passed Ben Gordon for 10th place on the Bulls' all-time scoring leaders.

[NovU]

Ma bad, I guess I am late to the party once again.

Yeah, trading Rose is easier said than done.


I guess you guys realize potential of this Bulls team. You guys are literally a contender in East with the worst performing player in the league(unless you count Mudiay but DEN are fine with losing anyways). And you only have Cavs to beat in the playoffs to get to the finals. I think the Bulls need to be shopping for a 2nd tier PG using whatever the method: trade, D-League, FA. And to move away from Rose and start building up chemistry for the playoffs in second half of the season.

[air gordon]

you share the same sentiment as management. they don't have the cajones to make a deal though.

i don't know this team's "potential". they had a nice stretch of 6 games and now followed them up with some stinkers. they haven't done much to distinguish themselves from the rest of the conference.

Cleveland seems to be pacing itself until the playoffs

[Andrew]

Good take on the situation: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... 12472.html

And some further commentary on his recent remarks: http://uproxx.com/dimemag/derrick-rose- ... son-bulls/

[NovU]

Done.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jorogl2

[Andrew]

Good for the Bucks, apparently.

[air gordon]

Does friedell work for Rose's camp? After his piece on Butler suggesting the Bulls trade him, he puts out this fluff piece on Rose. And yes kudos to Rose for not putting his foot on his mouth

Looks like the Bulls are due for another public tongue lashing by one of their players. They stink again

[Andrew]

Also, knee tendinitis for Rose.