v1.10 released...

The usual details...

v1.10 of the current roster update for NBA Live 2004 has been released and can be downloaded here. As usual, it is also mirrored here.

New in v1.10:
- 2004 Offseason Rosters updated through August 21st, 2004
- Player ratings and positions updated for better substitution patterns
- Player ratings updated for better simulated and in-game performance

As always, feedback is most welcome via email or in the NLSC Roster Patch Issues section in the forum.

A couple of notes:

Player ratings - as you know, I'm more than willing to correct problems and update ratings. But in the last few updates I've been asked to change various players back and forth (eg Bruce Bowen's three point rating). As soon as I'm asked to lower it to 70, I'm asked to raise it to 75. We'll need to work out a compromise so that the ratings are accurate and correct in most people's opinion (mine included ).

Again, I don't mind changing the ratings but some of the suggestions the last couple of updates have been contradicting each other and some of the ratings are going back and forth version to version.

2004 Olympic Team

I was planning on adding it, but Kq has just released an update for the National Teams Roster Patch that adds all the Olympic teams plus art. As with Mikki's rookie/sophomore rosters, I'd rather not add custom teams to the current roster update when much more indepth special rosters exist. Having said that, I'm not closed to the idea or the idea of adding more teams, but please note that I have some work to do on an update for the 95/96 mod.

OK, I think that's about it. Fire away with the suggestions.

Great work as usual Andrew

Looking at the Houston team at the moment and am wondering why Nachbar is rated 55 overall and Tryon Lue 53 overall?

Nachbar: 2.1 and 3.1ppg in last 2 years.
Lue: 10.5ppg, 8.6 ppg in the last 2 years.

Bob Sura probably should be in mid 50's for rebounding, at the moment he is 1 better then Piatkowski.

Also Mark Jackson should be on the Rockets roster he hasnt retired yet. Might as well put him on the roster as the rockets currently have 14 players.

Good job Andrew !

Hehe, will try it now !

Looking at the Houston team at the moment and am wondering why Nachbar is rated 55 overall and Tryon Lue 53 overall?

I made all the changes that were suggested for Lue and Nachbar that were suggested for v1.1, and that was the result. I can redo their ratings again if you like.

GS: Fish will be starting over speedy.

LAL: Devean George is on the injured list, so Jones should take his place. Bobbit should be on IL instead of Vujacic.

I made all the changes that were suggested for Lue and Nachbar that were suggested for v1.1, and that was the result. I can redo their ratings again if you like.

I'd say rate Lue around 56-57, and Nachbar 50-51.

Also how come Tony Bobbit is rated 4 better then Vujajic who was picked late first round?

Couple other observations:

Nocioni 59 overall, isnt that a bit too high for him?

Also Radmonovic from memory is 57 overall, however he averaged 12 points, 5 boards last season he is a low 60 or high 50's player I would say. He also 37 % from the 3pt line from 377 attempts, he is a great shooter and should be over 75 for 3's.

Everyone else has been telling me that Claxton will be starting for the Warriors.

GS: Fish will be starting over speedy.

im sorry but i have to disagree on this one. speedy will start. fisher's a pg but he doesn't play like one. he's a good defender(draws charges) and an excellent three pt shooter tho. the lakers can get away without a legit pg because their offense revolves on shaq (sometime's kobe). fish average's less than 3 assist per game even when he was a starter. i think he'll be more suited as a player off the bench(pg/sg).

HAWKS al harrington starting sf. he wanted out of pacers to be a starter. antoine walker works in the perimeter so harington can work on the low post.
travis hansen released. he signed with a team in europe.
NUGGETS kenyon martin lower strength to low 70's max. 78 is way too high.
PISTONS rasheed wallace lower inside scoring to 88-89. so he'll be lower than jermaine o'neal(plays more inside)
PACERS stephen jackson starting sg. reggie miller off the bench.
jermaine o'neal lower strength to low-mid 70's. at 79, he's as strong as elden campbell.
NETS eric williams starting pf.
lucious harris release to make room for jabari smith. i heard he will not return to the team along with rodney rogers.
KNICKS jamal crawford starting sg.
MAGIC sean rooks(unlikely to resign) release to make room for mario kasun.
BLAZERS damon stoudamire starting pg. van exel a combo guard off the bench.
SPURS kevin willis on injured list instead of b.udrih. they dont have a need a back up pg other than ginobilli. kevin willis is a free agent.
beno udrih higher 3pt to mid-high 50's.
manu ginobilli startting sg. here are reasons why:
- spurs will let him start for him to prove that he deserves the contract he has been given.
- he started at the first part of the last season. it's just he didnt adjust well so the spurs will try again and see what happens. if he doesnt perform well, brent barry will take his place.
- the spurs want a veteran pg to backup parker. this is why they signed charlie ward, who unfortunately did not adjust to the system well. ginobilli ended up as the backup pg. so this season, brent barry will be that backup. if barry starts, beno udrih, a rookie will be the backup pg. in short, they will be in that same position before they signed ward.
- devin brown will be given a chance to be the energy guy off the bench.
SONICS vladimir radmanovic higher 3pt to low-mid 50's.
RAPTORS jalen rose starting sg bec he's a good ball handler. vince carter starting sf.

As always, your hard work is truly appreciated Andrew! You seem to be very approachable and have a good pulse on the community.

At this time, I feel that I have to chime in because I've noticed some very troubling inconsistencies as of late and with the current roster. As you put it, there's too much going "back and forth" on several ratings. The way I see it, if you want a certain rating adjusted, one should try to back this up with logical and valid comparisions or valid stats for that matter (Nba.com is a good source)

I sent you a list earlier this year, mainly 3pt ratings based on player 3pt fg averages for the past 2 years. (Source: Nba.com). I've noticed that there's been some drastic (Some not so drastic) adjustments made to this list already. E.g. Tayshaun Prince has now been dropped from 75 to 64? Sam Cassell from 78 to 74?. I'm sure there's more. I don't know the impetus or justification for these recent changes. IMO I presented reasonably logical stats and reasons why these players deserve such ratings.

Anyhow, enough ranting. As you have previously deduced, these changes are not healthy and cause too much confusion. There has to be more of a standard adhered to when applying these adjustments.

On a side note, can you show the T'wolves some love and raise their team overall to something remotely close to San Antonio's?

Thanks.

I sent you a list earlier this year, mainly 3pt ratings based on player 3pt fg averages for the past 2 years. (Source: Nba.com). I've noticed that there's been some drastic (Some not so drastic) adjustments made to this list already. E.g. Tayshaun Prince has now been dropped from 75 to 64? Sam Cassell from 78 to 74?. I'm sure there's more. I don't know the impetus or justification for these recent changes. IMO I presented reasonably logical stats and reasons why these players deserve such ratings.

i think the changes made to tayshaun prince is a good move because he hasnt developed his shooting. he's very long,athletic and very active on the boards and defense. sam cassell three point rating was decreased to 74 because even though he's a good three point shooter, he makes more mid range shots. thi

Anyhow, enough ranting. As you have previously deduced, these changes are not healthy and cause too much confusion. There has to be more of a standard adhered to when applying these adjustments.

i agree that it's not healthy. there really has to be a standard. but i think you also have to consider that andrew needs t work on it because of the feedbacks.

Correct, Tayshaun is still developing his shooting game, however we just can't totally ignore his 3pt% stats either. If that were the case...well... you know the rest. We need to come up with a fairer balance to the applied formula. I can see the rating for his 3pt% being somehwere in the neighborhood between 71-75% with variables fitted into the equation, no more no less. 64 is too drastic of a drop and quite unrealistic IMO!

As for Sammy, again the fact that he can hit a good amount of mid range shots is valid. However, this very fact should not take away from his 3 point shooting (Do you play against the PC?). His rating of 78 was derived from a combination of his stats from the past 2 seasons. If we're going to make an adjustment like this we might as well modify the other player 3pt ratings to maintain uniformity! I feel that his 3pt rating should fall somewhere between 77 and 78 based on the aforementioned formula, as well as the 3pt stats assigned to players of a similar calibre. We need to look at these players as well if we're to reduce his to such a rating.

These are just my suggestions to Andrew after making my observations for the past few months, afterall this is the purpose of user feedback

Appreciate the input..

Looking at the Houston team at the moment and am wondering why Nachbar is rated 55 overall and Tryon Lue 53 overall?

Nachbar: 2.1 and 3.1ppg in last 2 years.
Lue: 10.5ppg, 8.6 ppg in the last 2 years.

Bob Sura probably should be in mid 50's for rebounding, at the moment he is 1 better then Piatkowski.

Also Mark Jackson should be on the Rockets roster he hasnt retired yet. Might as well put him on the roster as the rockets currently have 14 players.

I made those changes . The reason is that you have to look past the stat sheet to see the real value in Boki and Lue. Lue was hands down the worst starter in the league last year. He is flat out terrible. Boki meanwhile is going to get an expanded role building off of last season. He's their best backup 2 and 3 and is definitely better all-around than Lue (thus, the higher rating). He does just about everything well on the court except hit a consistent jumper. 55 isn't all too high when you compare it to other players in the L. Also, I played with him and IMO, the ratings are very good when he's user-controlled.

HAWKS al harrington starting sf. he wanted out of pacers to be a starter. antoine walker works in the perimeter so harington can work on the low post.

While the lineup maybe Harrington at SF, IMO he should be at PF in the game. Why? Because IRL, he'll be int he post and Walker on the perimeter (like you said). The AI in Live 04 just doesn't like bringing big men like Walker out a lot. Thus, playing him at 3 and Harrington at the 4 would produce a more realistic game.

PACERS stephen jackson starting sg. reggie miller off the bench.

I am 99% sure Reggie will start. However, I thought about it and the likelihood of Miller playing significant minutes IRL is slim...and if he starts the AI will be obessed with playing him a lot (instead of doing what the Pacers will - limited minutes, most coming in the 4th). So right now it's realistic lineup vs number of minutes. And in the past, I've opted for number of minutes.

lucious harris release to make room for jabari smith. i heard he will not return to the team along with rodney rogers.

We clash here again . I don't see any signs Harris will be released. I've heard rumors, but those have died. Harris is their most experienced 2 (including years and knowledge of the system) so I don't understand why they would release him.

KNICKS jamal crawford starting sg.

Just like Miller's case, I'm 99% sure Houston will start, unless he gets injured. Mostly it's another classy move and also, JC can be backup at both the 1 and 2.

SONICS vladimir radmanovic higher 3pt to low-mid 50's.

I thought Vlad was already had a 3 pt sign? Either way, it's gotta be in the 70s. He makes 1.8 pg at 37%...that's very good.

RAPTORS jalen rose starting sg bec he's a good ball handler. vince carter starting sf.

Heh, I made this change. Vince is equally adept at handling the ball, if not better, but that's besides the point (plus, the traditional SF should be a good ball handler). This is a very minor issue, but I'm anal retentive.....Rose will be the SF and Vince the SG, if Alston starts which he should. Rose is not only bigger and slower (thus, more realistic matchups in the game), but whenever he hasn't played PG last year (which was dumb in itself), he played SF.

Heh, shrwnt we just don't agree on a lot of things do we?

BTW, I feel Fisher will start over Claxton. I feel Claxton should start over fisher, as he's the clear cut better point guard. I don't think you can lose (or I guess from the responses the past few rosters, win) here.

Again, great work Andrew .

So you can see my point, I'm making these changes every update to use as many suggestions as possible. Again, I must stress that I truly do appreciate the suggestions, I want the feedback and I'm happy to put it to good use, but we do seem to be going around in circles.

Perhaps if we discussed some of the ratings before I implement them, we could come up with a fair and realistic compromise for some of the ratings. I've noted the latest suggestions, pending further discussions.

Just like Miller's case, I'm 99% sure Houston will start, unless he gets injured. Mostly it's another classy move and also, JC can be backup at both the 1 and 2.

im 99.1% crawford will start. he's isiah thomas' man. houston will still be limited by his injury at the start of the season. so he'll be a backup.

Just like Miller's case, I'm 99% sure Houston will start, unless he gets injured. Mostly it's another classy move and also, JC can be backup at both the 1 and 2.

im 99.1% crawford will start. he's isiah thomas' man. houston will still be limited by his injury at the start of the season. so he'll be a backup.

but we do seem to be going around in circles.

We are going in circles ...

With all the player movement, the fact that there are no active/inactive rosters and our varied guesses and projected lineups, lineups aren't all that important during the offseason. The new NBA season will always bring confirmation of our projected lineups.

Having said that, I'd like to feature educated guesses in the roster patch and I do want feedback about that, but sometimes I will exercise my editorial power and make my own educated guess - you're free to reorder the roster when you download it.

Anyway, keep it coming.

Good job Andrew, glad to see another update. Here are some suggestions:

* on Overall ratings, Bo Outlaw is 57 (4.6 PPG ; 4.2 RPG in 19.6 min) ; while Brian Cardinal only 56 (9.6 PPG, 4.2 RPG in 21.5 min). I suggest that Bo should be decreased as he's getting older
* Rodney Buford is overall 57 (1.9 PPG, 0.7 RPG in 6 min) while Ron Mercer (5 PPG, 1.3 RPG in 13 min) in 58. Buford ratings should be decreased. Buford is just a very good dunker and nothing else
* Shammond Williams (4.8 PPG, 2.2 APG in 14.4 min) is overall rated 54 like Alex Garcia (1.5 PPG in 2 games played). Garcia ratings should be slightly decreased
* Aaron McKie should be over Willie Green in Sixers starting 5 (no big deal, though )
* Ronald Dupree is bald
* Juwan Howard and Tyronne Lue have blue shoes. They should have red ones now that they are in Houston!
* Telfair is overall 62 while Trenton Hassell is only 57. I reckoin that Telfair isn't NBA ready and should just be rated around the 50's. Trenton Hassell could be rated higher a little, I'm not that conviced for him, it's up to you Andrew
* a 56 overall for Christian Laettner is now too much. I have to outline especially the 54 in quickness which is too high for that old big man
* Dana Barros, who is on the FA list, should be retired
* Olden Polynice and Shane Heal are still listed in the created players list, while it seems they are no longer included in the roster

Thanks Alexboom.

* Aaron McKie should be over Willie Green in Sixers starting 5 (no big deal, though )

Everyone else has been telling me that Willie Green will be starting for the Sixers this season, with Iverson at point guard.

* Olden Polynice and Shane Heal are still listed in the created players list, while it seems they are no longer included in the roster

Yeah, I moved them to team 38 rather than deleting them. Easily taken care of.

* Aaron McKie should be over Willie Green in Sixers starting 5 (no big deal, though )

Yeah, I've read countless articles saying that they're looking to start Green.

I thought Vlad was already had a 3 pt sign? Either way, it's gotta be in the 70s.

Radmanovic should definetely be at least 77 for 3's, he takes so many and still has a great percentage.

* Aaron McKie should be over Willie Green in Sixers starting 5 (no big deal, though )

Everyone else has been telling me that Willie Green will be starting for the Sixers this season, with Iverson at point guard.

My bad, I didn't knew that, I was just pretty astonished to see McKie behind Green (even if I like Green) as he's a proven veteran and as his overall rating was really better. So you were already correct, that's great!

If you didn't do it, maybe you could look at Green's ratings and see if you couldn't increase his ratings in some areas, in forecasting of his development next year

I've already upped Green quite a bit, he's gone up almost 10 points overall. McKie deserves to be rated better and in the automatic reordering the CPU will put him up into the starting five, but I'll be keeping Green as the starter until the real NBA shows otherwise.

EuroBasket.com reports that Jon Stefansson of the Mavericks signed with a team in Russia

Can someone explain to me how boston's ratings are figured out because it seems like they're overall rating continues to grow but it doesnt refelct in the game. I remember welsch had a 3pt sign and so did pierce. did they lose jones to LA? and i remember he had a 3pt sign as well.