NLSC Greatest of All-Time: #11

-13th number of the many

-#10 was won by Dennis Rodman

-#11 has the most voting options so far and could literally go in ways. Well, just 3, realistically, but I'd have no problem with any player taking it. Except Ilgauskas.

-You can vote for players in any way you want: On-court impact, Off-court impact, championships etc.

Nominees:

1. Paul Arizin (1950-51 to 1961-62)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
21.9	7.9	2.2	.506	Nr	Nr	19.7	.183

* He missed his 3rd and 4th year because he served in the freaking marines. Arizin came back right when the shot clock was added and became one of the best players of the decade. He won an NBA Title in 1956,

Arizin was constantly amongst the league leaders in points, minutes and shooting percentages. But he often got into foul trouble.

He was also money at the free throw line where got like crazy.

2. Isiah Thomas (1981-82 to 1993-94)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
19.1	3.5	9.2	.516	106	107	18.1	.109

* So we've heard it time and time again. Isiah Thomas is a top 3 point guard in NBA history. Many put him in front of Stockton, some in front of Magic.

Isiah isn't top 10. Top 15? Probably.

Isiah had a few years almost as good as people think he was his whole career. I will give him that. Those years came in the mid 80s where the Pistons only got out the first round once. But the span of his "greatness"" was only three years. Right when his team started winning, he started getting worse.

When great players get on great teams, they lower their USG%, up their efficiency and Ws/48 gets a big boost. Isiah's usage remained the same, his efficiency got even lower somehow, and his Ws/48 got lower. Even his Ortg got worse when his team started being relevant. Virtually every team has it's "star" player finishing at the top of win shares inside that team. Iverson did it in 2001, showing he was the best
player on the team. Stockton did it. Kidd did it. Paul did it. Isiah finished 3rd and 4th on every relevant Pistons team.

How is that even possible ? Isn't he an All-time great?

No.

Those Pistons teams would've done just as well with guys like Price, Stockton, Casell etc.

Isiah "sacrificed" his stats for the team. Yeah right. The guy had the ball all of the time, hence his good raw stats. He was turnover prone, shot a lot, and wasn't efficient. His career TS% is 51%. That's
horrible.

But, he had great Playoff performances!

Not in the 1988 Playoffs. Not in the 1989 Playoffs. In the 1990 Playoffs he had 1 good series. So that's 1 series where he upped his play from the regular season out of the possible 12 in those Pistons
runs. Yeah, that's greatness.

Just look at guys like Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Terry Porter torching their opponents in particular Playoff series.

Here is a list of players with better win totals than Isiah: John Stockton, Magic Johnson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Mark Jackson, Maurice Cheeks, Gary Payton, Terry Porter, Andre Miller, Chris Paul, Fat Lever,
Nate McMillan, Rod Strikland, Chauncey Billups, Muggsy Bogues, Mookie Blaycock, Derek Harper, Doc Rivers, Penny Hardaway, Mark Price, John Lucas, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo. There are more, you know.

So much about him being a winner. He can thank Rodman, Laimbeer and even Dumars for his titles.

What's the case that he is better than the rest? We've just dealt with his stats, his Playoff performances, his rings, his "leadership". What's left ?

The Media.

3. Elvin Hayes (1968-69 to 1983-84)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
19.7	11.7	1.7	.491	101	97	17.7	.116

* Another one of those forgotten 70s stars. I included his lone Houston season into this span. Elvin Hayes has the same problem as Isiah. For a few years, he was as good as people thought he was, but for
those other 10 years he wasn't that great at all.

Hayes was a really good defender and logged big minutes, hence his good raw stats earlier in his career. He topped 40 minutes per game in 9 of his first 10 seasons.

4. Yao Ming (2002-03 to 2010-11)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
21.0	10.2	1.6	.596	112	99	23.0	.200

* So Blazer fans are upset by the injuries their players suffered, when in reality they couldn't be a contender even when fully healthy. The only recent team that can be mentioned with this poor Rockets are the Thunder.

McGrady and Yao should've dominated the NBA. Yao was an elite center (yes they existed after Shaq, with both Ming and Howard having great years) that was great both ways. There isn't really much more you could ask for from a center.

But, you know, injuries.

He was constantly amongst the league leaders in TS%, Drtg and Ws/48.

A shame such a great career had to end the way it did. Same goes for T-Mac.

5. Bob McAdoo (1972-73 to 1985-86)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
23.9	10.2	2.5	.551	104	100	20.7	.151

* I included his lone season in New Jersey to the span.

McAdoo was great for a few years. He was arguably the best offensive player in his 2nd and 3rd year in the league.

He led the league in PER, Ws/48 and TS%. Probably would be in the very top of Ortg if they kept track of that stat. He also rebounded at a very high level. He was a good free throw shooter and got to the
line very often. He even won the MVP.

His performance than dropped, but he was still a very capable player. Then the injuries came.

McAdoo then joined Showtime where he won two titles.

6. Zydrunas Ilgauskas (1997-98 to 2010-11)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
17.2	9.7	1.5	.534	107	103	18.5	.139

* When he got over his injury troubles, he was a good player. Ilgauskas wasn't an ideal defender, but he rebounded and brought scoring to the table.

Honestly he only had one season worth mentioning in this list full of players with great seasons, but this voting isn't based on stats, so here he is.

7. Detlef Schrempf (1989-90 to 1998-99)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
17.6	7.7	4.3	.598	119	107	18.3	.172

* One of the most underrated small forwards of All-time. I'll call him the most underrated.

Here is a guy that led the league in Ortg and was constantly at the top of it with his ratings. He was an elite efficiency scorer as he was at the very top of TS% year after year.

He played for teams that made noise in the Playoffs, so that helps him a lot. His Ws/48 collumn is also great in his prime.

He is just a great offensive player. But then again, many small forwards were. And he wasn't that good of a defender.

8. Arvydas Sabonis (1995-96 to 2002-03)

P/36	R/36	A/36	TS%	Ortg	Drtg	PER	Ws/48
17.8	10.9	3.1	.574	112	97	21.2	.200

* He arrived in the NBA with a second hand body. He suffered some serious injuries while playing in Europe.

The thing is, if he came into the league right after getting drafted, Sabonis would've probably been the best center in the league and one of the best centers ever. Just look at is stats when he was basically
Cleveland Shaq.

He had it all. He really did.

Imagine Hakeem. Only 4 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier.

Passing, scoring, soft touch, great in the post, good rebounder, elite defender, efficient, makes a team better...the perfect player.

But this is all just a speculation, as he did come into the NBA after his prime.

Other Notable Player Shoutout

Chris Andersen started wearing it after coming back in the league. JJ Barea wore it in his first years. Dana Barros was an efficient shooter. Earl Boykins was like 3'4. The Great Larry Brown wore it. Jamal Tinsley wore it while being a part of those good 2k Indiana teams. Klay Thompson looks like someone who will move up quickly in the ranks. Vernon Maxwell was mad and won a few titles. Brook Lopez is one of the best big man in the league when healthy. Caldwell Jones had a long NBA career as a defender. Jrue Holiday somehow made the All-star team a few years back. Clem Haskins was a good guard in an era lot of players got overlooked. Walt Frazier wore it in his twighlight years in Cleveland. Monta Ellis continues to be ineffective. Glen Davis was a solid player in Boston. Jamal Crawford is the type of player that really earns the 2k signature skill "Microwave". Mike Conley continues to be one of the most underappreciated point guards in the league. He can play.

Yao over Sabonis

Sabonis, hope his son can live with the pressure, although still hasn't dad's body.

Yao Ming

I am going with Yao Ming.

Great old school center, destroyed by injury far to soon but going on his size and skillset alone he gets my vote.

Isiah Thomas having rings is a plus for me here.

I'll go with Isiah Thomas, but the analysis of his advanced stats is interesting, and does make me hesitate a little. The reason I ultimately went with him is because he was still immensely talented, and found a way to succeed in a time when bigs definitely still ruled the roost. I know that's coming dangerously close to the Barkley-esque "eye test is better than your nerdy stats" argument, which isn't my intent, but the guy had a lot of basketball talent, albeit talent that he didn't utilise very efficiently. And apparently he's not so great at spotting talent in a front office role, either.

isiah loses points for thinking pippen was over-rated

Isiah's peak iirc came early and was short. He's remained a media's boy for a whole career though.

I don't know... I'm torn between Sabonis and Yao. I will go with Sabo since Yao prolly has tons fans already.

i would have loved to watch an injury free yao ming career

You know what's funny. Yao played his young career in the NBA, his career ended at age of 30. In contrast, Sabonis's NBA career started at age of 31. He still played some serious ball in the NBA with his last leg.

As much as I wonder what Yao's injury-less could have been, I also wonder what if Sabo came to the NBA at young age.

The reason I didn't vote for Isiah is because of the whole Magic Johnson issue years ago and then.... New York... never forgets...

Though we do in fact re hire!

Though I didn't vote for him, Sabonis is an interesting scenario. I think if he had come to the NBA in his prime, he would've been very successful, and ranked up there as one of the best centres of the era...I mean the 80s and 90s, not just the few good years he played towards the end of the latter. He'd be talked about in the same breath as some of the other great bigs who came along during those two decades. However, I don't know that he'd be the greatest, as is sometimes suggested. Sporting legends can run a bit wild when we enter "What If?" territory, since the hypothetical scenarios can't really be disproved, and there's always a couple of apples and oranges comparisons being made along the way.