2015 NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavs

[Patr1ck]

Cleveland got all this big men and Blatt only plays James Jones as the backup "big".

They also got veterans who have been in deep playoff runs but they're buried in the bench.

Maybe this is an adjustment that is waiting to happen.

Air Gordon is right. If gsw pull out the next two, it will depend on who the main factor is.

[NovU]

I am totally ok with Curry getting his Finals MVP. The Cavaliers leave players like Iggy alone and doesn't take Thompson that seriously. It's Curry that Cavaliers spend their utmost energy to stop. Yet, Curry was decent in two wins. It's actually Shumpert that guarded Curry more than Delly btw, their best all around perimeter defender. Even then they'd double and triple team Curry at every opportunity. You have to give credits to Curry for still finding his game in 2 wins.

Giving it to LBJ? LoL, come on.

[airBerlin]

Shump has not guarded Curry more than Delly. Maybe in game 4 (even that I'm not so sure), but definitely not games 2 and 3. And I imagine the only reason it was different in game 4 is because of Delly's condition/cramps. I also didn't see much double (or triple) team's on him either during games 2 or 3, and is actually a huge part of the reason the Cavaliers lost game 4. There were waaaay too many plays where they doubled curry off a screen and he just hit whatever player that had set the screen for an easy bucket. I don't know if it was because the cramps or what, but Delly just wasn't staying in front of Curry like he was in the other games, nor was he denying him the ball.

I don't know why people are shooting down the idea of Curry winning the MVP, acting like he's had a terrible series. He had one bad game in game 2. He had one bad half in game 3, but led the comeback in the second half. People don't seem to realize that he finished with 50%, 27pts, and 7/13 from deep.

Also, going back to what I said about people saying Kyrie going out was a blessing. Game 4 was further proof that they need Kyrie. Cleveland's offense is atrocious without LeBron on the court. They need another playmaker available to run the offense so LeBron can rest. That's what Kyrie gave us.

[NovU]

Don't take my word for it.

Are they buying into the false hype that Dellavedova – who is having a spectacular series and playing great team defense – is somehow a Stephen Curry stopper?

Dellavedova hasn’t really covered Curry for two straight games now while the backside coverage and trapping on the pick-and-roll has been the real story. I challenge folks to index more than 5-10 instances in the last two games in which his defense was the key contributing factor to a win against Curry. It's just not there. Where he has been great is against everybody else not named Curry and of course in the 50/50 game. He held up in the post a few times on switches last night and one sequence against Festus Ezeli was outright surgical. He knows what he’s doing and deserves credit, but Iman Shumpert is still Cleveland’s preferred go-to defender on Curry as was the case last night down the stretch.

At the same time Dellavedova has turned the ball over and been unable to orchestrate reliable offense. He has been beat defensively on many occasions and made some ridiculous plays that he won’t be able to reproduce over the long haul. He too is going to be subject to fatigue as he runs through a million screens, including a bunch from Lee last night that doubled as football hits.

I doubt the Warriors view Dellavedova as a stopper and with all sorts of bad body language Curry appeared to be disengaged at times. I wouldn’t be surprised if he knows the offense is cluttered with all the pick-and-rolls but he too is married to the original team philosophy. He doesn’t lack confidence, but going agro in isolation hasn’t been his style since his teammates have emerged to form an elite playmaking unit.

I think this engine has stalled organically and it has slowly snowballed into a media fairy tale, but sometimes perception can be reality and a team with practically no Finals experience may very well let that stuff seep into their psyches.

Watching the game once(eye test) can be deceiving and obviously can't catch everything that goes on in the game. That's why analytics often differ with casual eye testers.

[airBerlin]

Watching the game once(eye test) can be deceiving and obviously can't catch everything that goes on in the game.

I think that's obvious, but yeah... I agree with this. There's a lot going on the court at once and usually people just focus on one area, usually the ball. Not to mention being limited to whatever camera angles they give.

I challenge folks to index more than 5-10 instances in the last two games in which his defense was the key contributing factor to a win against Curry. It's just not there.

But this has to be a joke right? lol. I'm surprised I even continued reading after that line, but I did...

He held up in the post a few times on switches last night and one sequence against Festus Ezeli was outright surgical.

I mentioned his good post defense in one of my previous posts when people were claiming he was trash on defense. That doesn't mean he didn't play Curry the majority of the time though.

He knows what he’s doing and deserves credit, but Iman Shumpert is still Cleveland’s preferred go-to defender on Curry as was the case last night down the stretch.

If you watched games 2 and 3 you would know this is false. In fact, I remember even Tristan being on Curry (from switches) more than I remember Shump guarding him. As for game 4, I already gave my opinion of why Delly probably wasn't guarding him quite so much, and it has nothing to do with Shump being "Cleveland's preferred go-to defender".

[NovU]

That is not false because that is what I also saw. Listen, this thread is full of my posts praising Delly, mostly on couple of clutch defensive efforts in late game situation. I also mentioned about couple times he got burnt alive and most of all, pointed out about excellent team defense on Curry throughout watching game. You are the one raving like Delly's some sort of second coming Kawhi Leonard/CP3.

You just can't be serious arguing Delly's a go-to-perimeter defender over Shumpert for the Cavs. What are you smoking? The writer was right on the money as far as Cavs defense is concerned.

[Spree#8]

Very impressed with Iguodala in this series. He's been the Warriors' best and most consistent player through 4 games. Perhaps the most underrated player of the past decade (and I mean underrated for real, not "5-time All-Star, Finals MVP, 3-time All-NBA and undeserved 2-time All-Defense" kind of underrated), he's always been a high impact player without stunning box score numbers and in these Finals, maybe more people will start noticing it. On offense, he's making the Cavs pay for daring him to shoot and - along with Livingston - moving the ball, making smart passes, taking some responsibility off of Curry. On defense, he's the only man who can slow down LeBron. If anyone's interested, here are James' numbers with Iguodala on/off the court, extrapolated per 48 minutes:

on 45.4 TS%, -12.7 net, -9.2 +/-, 34.4 PPG, 4.0 TPG
off 51.6 TS%, +5.4 net, +12.9 +/-, 45.2 PPG, 1.8 TPG

Good thing Kerr stopped fooling around and put Dre on him from the opening tip already. In the first 3 games, James was destroying Barnes each and every time in the first few minutes. The Warriors also seem to have finally recognized that they need to push the ball and turn up the tempo, because Cleveland is only playing 7 people, including their one-man army logging huge minutes.

Another thing the small lineup accomplishes is luring the Cavs into making Timofey damn Mozgov their first option on offense. He's playing well and mismatches are cool to have, but if you really believe you'll win the championship with Mozgov's low post isos, more power to you. I'm definitely interested in seeing Blatt's adjustments in game 5.

[Mandich]

Those are some big differences there. He was also very good offensively in the games they won.

It looks as though Iguodala is still an elite defender.

[NovU]

You guys realize defense has been leaving him open systemetically, right? (kinda like SAS was fine with Griffin taking mid range) The Cavaliers are giving him room while tightenig and trapping Curry and Thompson at all cost.

Not that he hasn't been playing well, I wouldn't rave about it like he's some sorta Kawhi that's gone unrecognized.

[Sauru]

You guys realize defense has been leaving him open systemetically, right? (kinda like SAS was fine with Griffin taking mid range) The Cavaliers are giving him room while tightenig and trapping Curry and Thompson at all cost.

so you are trying to say that curry is more deserving of the MVP because they are playing more defense on him even though he has been horrible?

[NovU]

Or are you trying to say that Iggy is the MVP?

[airBerlin]

That is not false because that is what I also saw. Listen, this thread is full of my posts praising Delly, mostly on couple of clutch defensive efforts in late game situation. I also mentioned about couple times he got burnt alive and most of all, pointed out about excellent team defense on Curry throughout watching game. You are the one raving like Delly's some sort of second coming Kawhi Leonard/CP3.

You just can't be serious arguing Delly's a go-to-perimeter defender over Shumpert for the Cavs. What are you smoking? The writer was right on the money as far as Cavs defense is concerned.

Wow. You make absolutely no sense at all lol. It's really hard to have a legit discussion with delusional people, but I'll try to sort my comments the best I can.

This is what you said:

It's actually Shumpert that guarded Curry more than Delly btw

This is what I said:

Shump has not guarded Curry more than Delly. Maybe in game 4 (even that I'm not so sure), but definitely not games 2 and 3. And I imagine the only reason it was different in game 4 is because of Delly's condition/cramps.

So firstly, I would love to see where I've been 'raving' over Delly. I made one comment of praise about his defense in game 2. And if you think Shump was guarding Curry more than Delly in game 2 you are far more delusional that I already suspect. So I won't even comment any further on that game..

Game 3:

phpBB [video]

I know this isn't the best indicator for the game in it's entirety, but I doubt you're going to rewatch the entire game. Tell me, who is guarding Curry in the majority of these possessions? And of the few times that Shump is actually guarding Curry, where is Delly? Oh, he's on the bench. And of the few times where Tristan is guarding Curry, who was the player that switched? Delly.

As for game 4, I said Shump maybe defended Curry more than Delly, but I explained why: because of his condition/cramps/etc. And the reason I said "MAYBE" is because I do remember Delly defending the other positions more than usual, but there were definitely plenty of moments were Delly was guarding Curry this game. I made mention that he wasn't staying in front of him as well as he had in other games and his ball denial was also lacking in comparison too.

So what do you and your article have to show proof that Shump was guarding Curry more? Nothing. The only mention in that article giving any sort of evidence towards their claim was this line

but Iman Shumpert is still Cleveland’s preferred go-to defender on Curry as was the case last night down the stretch.

Oh, down the stretch of the game where Delly was already completely gas'd in the 3rd quarter. Got it.

[benji]

David Lee should be Finals MVP, he's the one who's broken the Cavs defense. They can't trap and dare the non-Curry/Thompson Warriors to beat the switches when he's on the court. The more he plays and the less Barnes/Ezeli does the more the Warriors will open up leads. They just have to play the Cavs even the rest of the game then. They were +15 with Lee out there in game three, only +4 in game four but the 14-2 run in the first was with him on the floor and he even outplayed Barnes massively in the fourth. (Warriors were rolling with Green-Iggy-Thompson-Livingston-Curry for most of that quarter's run.)

Plus LeBron's game was off in game four. Lee's the man to prevent another two wins LeBron digs out with Mozgov's help only offensively.

[shadowgrin]

LeBron will come back in game 5, even Jesus had to rest when he died and only resurrected himself a day later.

[NovU]

Don't trip, airberlin. If that single sentence where I figuratively indicated importance of Shumpert's perimeter defense which play key role in Cavs entire defensive scheme, is making you rage and say craps like that, then say no more because you have no real point. Because who the fuck cares who guarded more Curry to that extent, defense has millions of other things going at the same time.

Just listen to benji saying about David Lee making a difference for Curry. If anyone knew anything real about basketball outside of single coverage, should have noticed this instantly. The reason Kerr couldn't put Bogut anymore than he did is because Curry gets fucked up by multiple defender, trap, and fluent switches. Compare P&R that Curry ran with Bogut to David Lee. Defenders wouldn't even switch but would swarm Curry. When Curry passed to Bogut in open, the Cavs simply fouled him. This works in Cavs favor because, one: Bogut's a terrible freethrow shooter, two: game pace slows down to Cavs wants. With David Lee who can actually generate offense, what the Warriors got was capable in&out offense in sacrifice of defense. This brought Curry back into life in this series, not because suddenly Delly fucked up defensively.

So... do you really think Delly's single coverage defense is what killed Curry from get go to the finish? You have not answer this question yet but resorting to nitpicking silliness, 'down the stretch', lol, only to prolong meaningless debate? Talk about taking a word out of context. Do you really believe Delly's a preferred go-to-defender over Shumpert? That's the real question that was thrown at you that you laughed at, not just 'down the stretch'.

[NovU]

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/6/10/8 ... e-warriors
Worth a read. It's about how the Cavs have been playing defense.

[Andrew]

Good read. It does appear as though the Warriors have figured a few things out though, or at least found their shooting touch and confidence. As already noted, now it's time for another Cleveland counterpunch.

[Maverick]

I have a great feeling that this will be over in six. Tomorrow's game will be a close one though.

[JaketheFlake]

I really hope the Cavaliers win it this year because LeBron really deserve this one and I'm not even a LeBron fan. Besides if GSW wins the series, the whole media will praise their new "cover boy" Steph Curry. Man, I really think Harden got robbed this season.

[Mandich]

the whole media will praise their new "cover boy" Steph Curry. Man, I really think Harden got robbed this season.

By what standard ?

[JaketheFlake]

the whole media will praise their new "cover boy" Steph Curry. Man, I really think Harden got robbed this season.

By what standard ?

well, Harden really carried a subpar team, making him more valuable to his team compared to Curry's case. Harden also lead the NBA in win shares, which is more important than the 3 point records he built/broke this year. Howard's injury really boosted his MVP case though and I'm not discrediting Curry's effort its just thought Harden is Rockets, without him they are total different team, well at least this season.

[Mandich]

Curry was better than him in every other category thus more valuable and had a better Ws/48, so not much of a argument you have there. Nobody had 3pt record in their mind when they voted.

[JaketheFlake]

By the way, you might think I'm a Curry hater or something, I'm not.

[NovU]

Harden carried his team right down the sink hole alright in the Conference Finals.

[Mandich]

Doesn't have anything to do with his fantastic regular season and MVP considerations.