2015 NBA Finals: Warriors vs Cavs

[Mandich]

It's guys like you that make me wonder why I even try.

Luckily the forum is packed with a good crew.

[Mandich]

DRtg is notoriously bad for perimeter defenders who don't get steals or blocks. (Or rebounds like Rodman.)

Just took a look at some examples and it's noticeable. A person learns as long he's alive.

Is there a better stat do determine a players defensive value ?

[S_Brat]

It's guys like you that make me wonder why I even try.

Luckily the forum is packed with a good crew.

Likewise my friend. Have a good day

[benji]

Multi-year counterpart data, multi-year adjusted plus/minuses, SportVU tracking possession data. The latter being the most accurate.

[Mandich]

Haven't found an OPP % outside the rim area. Is there any ?

EDIT: SportVU

[benji]

Individual player pages:
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203521/tracking/defense/

EDIT: http://stats.nba.com/league/player/defense/#!/

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/

There's where PPP is.

[Mandich]

Amazing.

Thanks.

[Alpha_]

Maybe I counted the Refs out too soon!

Fixed.

GSW got away with so many bullsh*t calls. Effing Refs!

[S_Brat]

Let's not make this something more or less than what really is.

Delly had a very specified role. That was to stay with Curry no matter what, wherever and whenever. And when Curry had the ball, double/triple team came at first chance possible and Curry was swarmed with defenders. Delly's done a good job staying with Curry. You can even see him staying with Curry 10 ft outside of three point line while ignoring rest of universe.

When players put up ridiculous numbers, it's often called a "video game-like performance", which is an apt turn of phrase to describe a star that's flat out dominating and seemingly hitting all their shots...like a basketball video game on an easy difficulty setting. The way Curry and the Warriors as a whole (good stretches by Thompson aside) played in Game 2, it was like a casual basketball gamer playing really badly: "Hey, Curry's got a three-point rating of 96. I'll just run it up the floor and bomb away from three with him!".

Haha, nice way to put this generation's basketball.

Curry definitely forced his game and his shot selections weren't just good imo in exception of ofc a few shots. He never got into a rhythm in this one.

But as much as Curry was playing really ugly, never have I seen LBJ running so many ISO plays which also is an ugly basketball, how many times has his overuse of possession stagnated the offense. This could be the case of "let's go to our best player and see what he can do on every stretch" series. In result we got a nice low scoring close game.

that i agree with.. thats why i found the spurs so much fun to watch!!! i hate ISO style basketball and i hate the quick 3 as well... like andrew said its like video game basketball... i like running plays and setting up the 3 like my Magic used to do back when they actually made it to the playoffs... that was fun to watch... but i have to say It was much better in game 2. Game 1 was unbearable to watch with all the ISO.... If the cavs can play this kind of defense and mozgov can keep contributing the way he does and jr smith can just get some consistency the cavs have a very good chance of pulling this one out... that will completely solidify LeBron as the ultimate best player in the history of the NBA... because he did it without almost any help.... no love, and no kyrie and he still gets the trophy? no doubt in my mind that will shut up the doubters... and in my books will put him above jordan...

[Mandich]

smh.

[Moz]

If the cavs can play this kind of defense and mozgov can keep contributing the way he does and jr smith can just get some consistency the cavs have a very good chance of pulling this one out...

that will completely solidify LeBron as the ultimate best player in the history of the NBA... because he did it without almost any help....

I miss the 76ers Iggy... Why the fuck he let himself went from that stud to a Iman Shumpert kind of guy... I'm not following the West so I'll ask is David Lee injured or he's just the Boozer of GSW? Curry not realizing that he have the talent to be more productive other than jacking up treys showed us that he's still not quite the elite PG that Paul and Nash were... Mozgov and Thompson has been making the opponents' bigmen their bitches in this playoffs... If they let go of Love and one of the NY pickups and retain those guys then sign a solid wing like let say Wesley Matthews or Afflalo, they'll be scarier (of course that's assuming that Kyrie will be somewhat healthy like this season)... What a messy game in terms of officiating...

[mp3]

David Lee is the forgotten man in Golden State now, 20 & 10 guy for years then over the last season and a half he is now know as David DNP CD...

[airBerlin]

It's pretty obvious when people don't actually watch the game and just look at the stats and highlights the following day. Delly played great defense. Not just contesting shots but also denying Curry the ball. And it wasn't just Curry that he did a good job defending. Off the top of my head I can remember times where he played really good post defense against Draymond and Barnes.

This is coming from someone who isn't even really a fan of Delly. It drives me absolutely insane watching him on offense sometimes. I could understand people making comments about his ball handling, passing, decision making, etc... But not giving credit to him for his defense in game 2 is absurd. lol

[air gordon]

of course im salty but i'm not butt hurt

This reliance on the three ball, though...well, it makes the game pretty ugly when teams and players start building a house with all those bricks.

so what is uglier? James ISO ball or 3pt shooting barage? haha

i believe the amount of 3pters shot in the last year's finals by the Spurs was the most ever in a finals. Popovich has said he hates 3pters/think it's cheating.

eventually defenses will adapt to this in trend thing. i do enjoy watching the clash of styles go head on though. You just have to shake your head when you see some of the shots GSW take, especially early in the possession.

i hope for next year the nba will go back to giving technical fouls for complaining. players from both teams are a bunch of big babies.

[S_Brat]

It's pretty obvious when people don't actually watch the game and just look at the stats and highlights the following day. Delly played great defense. Not just contesting shots but also denying Curry the ball. And it wasn't just Curry that he did a good job defending. Off the top of my head I can remember times where he played really good post defense against Draymond and Barnes.

This is coming from someone who isn't even really a fan of Delly. It drives me absolutely insane watching him on offense sometimes. I could understand people making comments about his ball handling, passing, decision making, etc... But not giving credit to him for his defense in game 2 is absurd. lol

haha i hear you on that... some of his passes just left you scratching your head... he did make a bunch of clutch plays in the end of the game... including two floaters a free throws and a 3....

i think people are misunderstanding giving the guy props for one game with crowning him MVP of the finals... its humorous...

of course im salty but i'm not butt hurt

This reliance on the three ball, though...well, it makes the game pretty ugly when teams and players start building a house with all those bricks.

so what is uglier? James ISO ball or 3pt shooting barage? haha

i believe the amount of 3pters shot in the last year's finals by the Spurs was the most ever in a finals. Popovich has said he hates 3pters/think it's cheating.

eventually defenses will adapt to this in trend thing. i do enjoy watching the clash of styles go head on though. You just have to shake your head when you see some of the shots GSW take, especially early in the possession.

i hope for next year the nba will go back to giving technical fouls for complaining. players from both teams are a bunch of big babies.

the spurs actually ran a play to set up the 3... they dont just run down the court and heave a three the second they reach the three point line... im all for shooting the three point shot... as my magic were very good if not one of the very best shooting it, at one point... but they went inside first and then were able to kick it out for a three... the warriors kinda of just randomly fire from the 3 point line... i guess i like the good ol fashion grind it out kind of basketball... i personally love seeing a defensive match over a shoot out... but thats just my personal preference... thats why i liked memphis and the celtics... unfortunately for them they didnt have any offense to compliment the defense... cavs are very limited as well... the one thing they have going for them is LeBron

[shadowgrin]

i believe the amount of 3pters shot in the last year's finals by the Spurs was the most ever in a finals. Popovich has said he hates 3pters/think it's cheating.

He has that stance for years but to be fair he's softened to it now as long the shooter is open or has decent space between the defender (from screens) or if there is a defender still successfully makes it (usually Manu I think) like all coaches prefer.

[Sauru]

At the very least, one could say that Dellavedova had the biggest play of the night. Had the Warriors secured the loose ball after Green blocked that layup by LeBron, and held on for the win, we could probably say that he had the biggest play of the night.

i fully agree. he saved the game for them there. love the games that can be broken down to 1 play. lebron was clearly the best player on the court last night but delly came up huge for them

Maybe I counted the Refs out too soon!

Fixed.

GSW got away with so many bullsh*t calls. Effing Refs!

the refs spent most of the game fucking over the warriors then when it gets to overtime they started fucking over the cavs. i am positive they were trying to keep the game close based on how they called this game. all of them should be fired it was a fucking disgrace

[Andrew]

so what is uglier? James ISO ball or 3pt shooting barage? haha

Toss a coin, and hope it doesn't come down.

[Sauru]

the 3 point shoots go both ways. when its raining 3's people love it, cant get enough of them. the biggest problem i saw with curry last night was he knew his shot was not going but didnt adjust at all. just kept forcing it up. the greats know how to adjust to an off night so they still have an impact. thats something he will have to learn if he wants to ever be more than just a great shooter

[Andrew]

Agreed. I can appreciate an impressive three-point shooting display, the skill required to pull it off and all that, but "run it up, fire up an early three, and brick it time after time" isn't pretty. As you said, Curry needed to make an adjustment. He had some success going to the rim, but kept settling for looks that yes, he does normally knock down, but wasn't yesterday.

[ThePointForward]

Looking at the ref report...
Green cheated on jump ball twice in the last two minutes + OT. C'mon now. When Thompson complained I would expect them to make extra sure it doesn't happen again.

Though ref reports are usually missing a thing or two. Like that "textbook" (in nfl) box out from Noah on Thompson when LBJ hit his game winner.

[[Q]]

Did anyone else notice at the end of the 3rd when dellevadova kicks his leg out to prevent speights from getting the ball?

[NovU]

Delly tried to draw the foul and got ran over by Speights. That was one play I liked refs calling it a non foul and continuation. Frigging cheap play is in his vein, I am inclined to believe it's LBJ effect.

[NovU]

phpBB [video]

Here... watch 5:09

Speights almost broke his neck.

Delly to me a LBJ's dirty bitch. Cavs wouldn't be in the Finals playing against the Warriors if it wasn't for dirtiness.

[Jackal]

I saw that during the game too, I thought more people would've been talking about it after I saw it in game. His "hard work" has a touch of "yuck" to it for me.