U R B - WHERE SIM HAPPENS ! 2023 Roster Preview! 11TH November

[che]

Che, the touches tendency is in no way associated with USG. It's actually ((FGAper36+ASTper36)-3PTAper36)x4

This is why Shaq wasn't getting much touches in the games you played in 03-04. Up until that season, he averaged approximately 18-19 FGA per 36 minutes, that season he averaged 14. That's a major drop.

My bad, I must've misread the mod description. I actually looked up USG and was surprised that the formula didn't include assists in any kind of way, glad your formula does.
I'm gonna critizise your touches tendency formula here. My only objective is to suggest improvements, I respect the amount and the quality of thought and also work you put in this project and I'm not gonna be offended if you don't like my ideas. Also I have no idea how the sim engine works, I just care about gameplay and the fact there is a a big gameplay difference between a 20 USG% Shaq and a 26 USG% Shaq is the only reason I care about that stat.

I believe touches tendency affects the amount of plays run for a player but may affect also affect freelance mode in some way, don't know (please correct me). Ultimately it affects how much a player will get the ball (and thus FGA and thus PPG). The USG% stat is almost the same thing, a function of FGA, FTA & TOV to measure how likely a player is to end a possession, to be the final stop. I believe your formula is closer to USG% than to (my understanding of) the touch tendency because your factors (2PA & AST) also measure the ending of a possession, you collect those two stats by being the last or second to last stop. Your formula doesn't care whether the play started with you or if some other guy made a play and the ball was just swung to you (unless the guy directly assisted you) and I don't know a stat that does. So I'd agree that going the ending-possession way is the way to go.

What I believe would increase the accuracy of your touch formula is

1. working in FTA & TOV, because they depict the ending of a possession as well as FGA does and I don't see a redundancy here, a FTA is usually the same kind of positive conclusion to an attack as a FGA. Using FTA would boost Shaq (and other stars who get fouled a lot) and btw. his FTA remained constant even as his FGA dropped off, like you mentioned, he just converted at a much worse rate in he '04 season than before that.

2. Also is there a possibility of replacing AST/36 with something like a "passes-that-led-to FGA"/36 (if that even exists)? Reason being that AST depicts only made baskets while FGA depicts both makes (FGM) and misses, which seems incoherent.

3. Furthermore, wouldn't per 100 poss. stats be more appropiate than per 36 min. stats for this (eliminates pace)?

4. May it be a good idea to insert some biases into the formula, like substracting a few points for guys who bring the ball, start the play and will see lots of the ball anyway (like PGs, the Pippen/Odom & maybe the Kobe/T-Mac types) and adding a few points for guys who need to be fed the ball in certain positions to be effective (anyone who can't dribble, especially post up bigs)?

Feel free to ignore this if you think that stuff wouldn't affect gameplay enough or would be too inonvenient to implement, just trying to provide critical feedback here and the mod plays awesomely well as is.

[slimm44]

Answers in bold

Che, the touches tendency is in no way associated with USG. It's actually ((FGAper36+ASTper36)-3PTAper36)x4

This is why Shaq wasn't getting much touches in the games you played in 03-04. Up until that season, he averaged approximately 18-19 FGA per 36 minutes, that season he averaged 14. That's a major drop.

My bad, I must've misread the mod description. I actually looked up USG and was surprised that the formula didn't include assists in any kind of way, glad your formula does.

It's very possible the mod description was written by a dude from Poland that thinks he's an eagle when he's really a chicken lol (inside joke)

I'm gonna critizise your touches tendency formula here. My only objective is to suggest improvements, I respect the amount and the quality of thought and also work you put in this project and I'm not gonna be offended if you don't like my ideas. Also I have no idea how the sim engine works, I just care about gameplay and the fact there is a a big gameplay difference between a 20 USG% Shaq and a 26 USG% Shaq is the only reason I care about that stat.

I'm open to constructive criticism. The sim engine is not effected by touches at all. The sim engine somehow determines per and usg% based on compiling other stats, I believe.

I believe touches tendency affects the amount of plays run for a player but may affect also affect freelance mode in some way, don't know (please correct me). Ultimately it affects how much a player will get the ball (and thus FGA and thus PPG). The USG% stat is almost the same thing, a function of FGA, FTA & TOV to measure how likely a player is to end a possession, to be the final stop. I believe your formula is closer to USG% than to (my understanding of) the touch tendency because your factors (2PA & AST) also measure the ending of a possession, you collect those two stats by being the last or second to last stop. Your formula doesn't care whether the play started with you or if some other guy made a play and the ball was just swung to you (unless the guy directly assisted you) and I don't know a stat that does. So I'd agree that going the ending-possession way is the way to go.

I don't think touches influences freelance tendencies, at least in how I have freelance tendencies set up. I only give players Use Pick, Iso, or Post Up if they have above 50 in touches tendency. This forces action to guys with higher touches and eliminates guys with lower touches from being freelance threats. Even if touches does influence freelance, it would still influence the AI to go to the guys it should.

What I believe would increase the accuracy of your touch formula is

1. working in FTA & TOV, because they depict the ending of a possession as well as FGA does and I don't see a redundancy here, a FTA is usually the same kind of positive conclusion to an attack as a FGA. Using FTA would boost Shaq (and other stars who get fouled a lot) and btw. his FTA remained constant even as his FGA dropped off, like you mentioned, he just converted at a much worse rate in he '04 season than before that.

Sometime in the past, I did it like this. It was something like (FGAper36+FTAper36+ASTper36+TOper36)*3. I don't remember why I stopped doing that, but I'm pretty sure this way is about as efficient. I'll look into it, though.-

2. Also is there a possibility of replacing AST/36 with something like a "passes-that-led-to FGA"/36 (if that even exists)? Reason being that AST depicts only made baskets while FGA depicts both makes (FGM) and misses, which seems incoherent.

If there is such a stat, it would only be for the last season or two.

3. Furthermore, wouldn't per 100 poss. stats be more appropiate than per 36 min. stats for this (eliminates pace)?

It's possible that it would be marginally more accurate. I think the idea of including TOper36 in the formula would yield bigger differences, but I could be wrong. I honestly don't think there's going to be a drastic difference either way.

4. May it be a good idea to insert some biases into the formula, like substracting a few points for guys who bring the ball, start the play and will see lots of the ball anyway (like PGs, the Pippen/Odom & maybe the Kobe/T-Mac types) and adding a few points for guys who need to be fed the ball in certain positions to be effective (anyone who can't dribble, especially post up bigs)?

I have no idea how to do this and I try to stay away from subjectively determining ratings/tendency when at all possible.

Feel free to ignore this if you think that stuff wouldn't affect gameplay enough or would be too inonvenient to implement, just trying to provide critical feedback here and the mod plays awesomely well as is.

My question for you...Are you willing to help with this project in any way?

[slimm44]

OK, I ran 4 different formulas for the 2004 Lakers. I ran:

1. ((FGAper36+ASTper36)-3PTAper36)*4
2. (FGAper36+ASTper36+FTAper36+TOper36)*3
3. ((FGAper100+ASTper100)-3PTAper100)*3
4. (FGAper100+ASTper100+FTAper100+TOper100)*2

At least 3 out of those 4, the Touches broke down like this...

1. Kobe (every time)
2. Shaq
3. Payton
4. Malone
5. George

Kobe was either 9 or 10 points higher in touches than Shaq in every formula. \

With that being said, I don't think it's worth editing 13,000+ players to get the same result.

[skoadam]

It's very possible the mod description was written by a dude from Poland that thinks he's an eagle when he's really a chicken lol (inside joke)

I can even be a chicken but for sure not hawk peck hard

[skoadam]

Age of players fixed, please re-download URBV32.
Good find eustachy1,

[MrMojok69]

I completely removed and re-installed the 2K13 in my PC... I would like to know guys if you also need to load the URB roster that you use to start a game mode (Asso, CAL) first before you can actually load the Saved game?

I don't have any copy of the previous roster prior to the latest release V31 so I can't test it further if ever it's another creepy bug that I only encounter, I'm really confused if I'm the only one who experienced this or other users already reported about this?

I hope I didn't make you guys mad by reporting this kinda of issues, already spent a couple of days figuring things out but I don't know... it's really creepy there's always another problem after another.

jtrotterj,

This isn't really going to help you much, I don't think. But I wanted to say I can make my game crash pretty consistently at quarter end. It happens when I make changes like this:

1) use editor to set the 1996 Bulls to be Free agents
2) Start game, create new season, select Bulls as my team
3) replace the top 12 guys on the Bulls 2015 roster with the 1996 Bulls guys

Now when I play a game everything seems normal until the end of the first quarter. Game crashes to desktop, no "nba2k13.exe has encountered an error and must close", the program just exits with no error.

In the past I've done similar things, that resulted in crashes. I used the Bulls as an example but I've done this with other teams too. Is this at all similar to what you've been doing?

[skoadam]

MrMojok69, main question is, it crashes when you are not touching anything also? Redmc is very powerful tool and you cant just change things here and not bother about other tabs. When you change all 96 bulls players into FA(using redmc), what you did in team tab with 96 bulls? Because there is still 96bulls players assigned to the 96 Bulls roster and in players tab you gave them -1 -1 TEAM ID1 and ID2. It must end with crash.
Im not saying do not try this or that, but use it wisely. The problem is, i never see crash on my end(sry year ago when i was trying to use scoreboard from erixxx). Maybe other users can confirm this because i feel stupid about it.

[jtrotterj]

I completely removed and re-installed the 2K13 in my PC... I would like to know guys if you also need to load the URB roster that you use to start a game mode (Asso, CAL) first before you can actually load the Saved game?

I don't have any copy of the previous roster prior to the latest release V31 so I can't test it further if ever it's another creepy bug that I only encounter, I'm really confused if I'm the only one who experienced this or other users already reported about this?

I hope I didn't make you guys mad by reporting this kinda of issues, already spent a couple of days figuring things out but I don't know... it's really creepy there's always another problem after another.

jtrotterj,

This isn't really going to help you much, I don't think. But I wanted to say I can make my game crash pretty consistently at quarter end. It happens when I make changes like this:

1) use editor to set the 1996 Bulls to be Free agents
2) Start game, create new season, select Bulls as my team
3) replace the top 12 guys on the Bulls 2015 roster with the 1996 Bulls guys

Now when I play a game everything seems normal until the end of the first quarter. Game crashes to desktop, no "nba2k13.exe has encountered an error and must close", the program just exits with no error.

In the past I've done similar things, that resulted in crashes. I used the Bulls as an example but I've done this with other teams too. Is this at all similar to what you've been doing?

thanks for sharing your experience @MrMojok69 yeah that's exactly my problem but was able to lessen the consistent crash during the end of 1st quarter by following Skoadam suggestion to change the default scoreboard, however same thing happened now in the end of 3rd quarter.

I've tried this solution (Solution #2: Always run NBA in High priority)and was able to finish the game atleast 2 games in a row, wasn't able to test is further because I encountered another problem getting crash now on creating a player, it only allowed me to create max 3 new players then it will crash after that.

I've been creating a custom team/playbooks/trades with 2K15 roster when I encounter that crashes. But now I also encounters the 1st/3rd Quarter crash by just using the FinalURB2015 or FinalURB2016 roster without changing anything.

Can you test the NBA in High priority and changing the default scoreboard to see if you will encounter the crash?

it's pretty dissapointing right? When you spend a lot of time and effort to build your custom/favorite team then end up crashing during the end of 1Q when the game is pretty realistic and competitive right?

MrMojok69, main question is, it crashes when you are not touching anything also? Redmc is very powerful tool and you cant just change things here and not bother about other tabs. When you change all 96 bulls players into FA(using redmc), what you did in team tab with 96 bulls? Because there is still 96bulls players assigned to the 96 Bulls roster and in players tab you gave them -1 -1 TEAM ID1 and ID2. It must end with crash.
Im not saying do not try this or that, but use it wisely. The problem is, i never see crash on my end(sry year ago when i was trying to use scoreboard from erixxx). Maybe other users can confirm this because i feel stupid about it.

I still encountered a crash using erixx scoreboard but now in end of 3rd Quarter, was able to complete the game by running NBA in High priority. Would be nice if other users would test if further too. Anyway I have default 2K13 installed and played the same saved game from URB2015/URB2016 that I'm having crashes with URB Patched and never encounter a single crash.

[slimm44]

I have never had a crash ever.

[jtrotterj]

I have never had a crash ever.

What's the 2K13 you guys are running store version? I've read Andrew comments in the community that (No DVD, No Login) users tend to encounter end of Quarter crashes. I'm using NO DVD .exe

@MrMojok69 can tell us what 2K13 you are running?

Edited: sorry skoa new member here I haven't read the community rules yet haha

[skoadam]

jtrotterj, im using both(exe), but its so obvious that original exe is little problematic when you want to use some mods. Right now i have 3 exe files in my game folder. Im using them because gameplay is also slighty fixed there...at least this is my observation after hundrets of games. I have no problem to prove i have legal copy of nba 2k13

edit: wow wow wow guys, stop talking about pirated versions in my thread lololol

[che]

My question for you...Are you willing to help with this project in any way?

Yes. I'll send you & sko a pm about this.
I'll copy your style and answer in bold. I have no idea how to quote multiple posts,so I'll just copy&paste the stuff I'm responding to. If I don't respond to a statement, I agree with it or take notice. I'll try my best to be as confusing as possible.

The sim engine is not effected by touches at all. The sim engine somehow determines per and usg% based on compiling other stats, I believe.

Touches affect FGA and therefore PPG & USG%, right?
It may not be much but after 12 games I increased 04 Shaq's touch tendency by 10 and two games later (so 14 total) his season USG% jumped 1 point from 19.6 to 20.9, his FGA were around 8 most games and then 12 & 13 for the final two (7min quarters). Small sample size and little difference but it's something.



(per 100 poss. stats)
It's possible that it would be marginally more accurate. I think the idea of including TOper36 in the formula would yield bigger differences, but I could be wrong. I honestly don't think there's going to be a drastic difference either way.

I also expect marginal differences. Thinking about it a bit more, it shouldn't make a difference at all because the touch slider only matters as a relative to a players' teammates and they will obviously play at the same pace that he does, so the per100/per36 difference should be the same for every player in a given team (unless the starters grind it out & bench goes 100mph or smth. crazy like that) but it may matter for all-star games, fantasy drafts and all-time teams, I'm sure the 80's Lakers had more possessions per 36 min. than the 00's Lakers, so if you get Shaq & Magic on the all-time Lakers, Magic's touches might be a bit inflated compared to Shaq's, you know? (that was one very short sentence )

If you ever happen to change your formula so drastically that you'll have to re-edit all the players anyway and decide to aim for best posible accuracy, maybe consider switching to per100 then.


OK, I ran 4 different formulas for the 2004 Lakers. I ran:

1. ((FGAper36+ASTper36)-3PTAper36)*4
2. (FGAper36+ASTper36+FTAper36+TOper36)*3
3. ((FGAper100+ASTper100)-3PTAper100)*3
4. (FGAper100+ASTper100+FTAper100+TOper100)*2

At least 3 out of those 4, the Touches broke down like this...

1. Kobe (every time)
2. Shaq
3. Payton
4. Malone
5. George

Kobe was either 9 or 10 points higher in touches than Shaq in every formula. \

At this point, the Shaq-Payton difference is more of an issue to me than Shaq-Kobe.
IIrc you have Kobe at around 76 and both Shaq & Payton around 67 in touch tendency in your 04 roster, the other players don't matter to me here.
I think substracting 3PTA is a good idea, no idea why it isn't featured in formula 2 & 4.
I did some quick math with your 2nd formula and I got:
Kobe 98 (89 with 3PTA substracted)
Shaq 89
Payton 72 (66 with 3PTA substracted)

I see a huge difference, which will likely hold up even if you calculate appropiately (I just did in my head, rounding and everything). The scale seems very high but that can be altered easily. Judging from BBR's USG and my expectation of what I want to see the team doing I much prefer these new numbers.


With that being said, I don't think it's worth editing 13,000+ players to get the same result.

Not gonna argue that.

[skoadam]

http://www.twitch.tv/urb_skoadam
is this working ?

[jtrotterj]

http://www.twitch.tv/urb_skoadam
is this working ?

The stream of woking but the video quality is not good....shared some screenshot

[skoadam]

must check information about settings in stream software, i dont know s about this

[slimm44]

Che, try running a playoff series against the 2004 Lakers and post some stats. I'd like to see how that specific team looks specifically over multiple games.

[Niko Bellic]

I completely removed and re-installed the 2K13 in my PC... I would like to know guys if you also need to load the URB roster that you use to start a game mode (Asso, CAL) first before you can actually load the Saved game?

I don't have any copy of the previous roster prior to the latest release V31 so I can't test it further if ever it's another creepy bug that I only encounter, I'm really confused if I'm the only one who experienced this or other users already reported about this?

I hope I didn't make you guys mad by reporting this kinda of issues, already spent a couple of days figuring things out but I don't know... it's really creepy there's always another problem after another.

jtrotterj,

This isn't really going to help you much, I don't think. But I wanted to say I can make my game crash pretty consistently at quarter end. It happens when I make changes like this:

1) use editor to set the 1996 Bulls to be Free agents
2) Start game, create new season, select Bulls as my team
3) replace the top 12 guys on the Bulls 2015 roster with the 1996 Bulls guys

Now when I play a game everything seems normal until the end of the first quarter. Game crashes to desktop, no "nba2k13.exe has encountered an error and must close", the program just exits with no error.

In the past I've done similar things, that resulted in crashes. I used the Bulls as an example but I've done this with other teams too. Is this at all similar to what you've been doing?

thanks for sharing your experience @MrMojok69 yeah that's exactly my problem but was able to lessen the consistent crash during the end of 1st quarter by following Skoadam suggestion to change the default scoreboard, however same thing happened now in the end of 3rd quarter.

I've tried this solution (Solution #2: Always run NBA in High priority)and was able to finish the game atleast 2 games in a row, wasn't able to test is further because I encountered another problem getting crash now on creating a player, it only allowed me to create max 3 new players then it will crash after that.

I've been creating a custom team/playbooks/trades with 2K15 roster when I encounter that crashes. But now I also encounters the 1st/3rd Quarter crash by just using the FinalURB2015 or FinalURB2016 roster without changing anything.

Can you test the NBA in High priority and changing the default scoreboard to see if you will encounter the crash?

it's pretty dissapointing right? When you spend a lot of time and effort to build your custom/favorite team then end up crashing during the end of 1Q when the game is pretty realistic and competitive right?

MrMojok69, main question is, it crashes when you are not touching anything also? Redmc is very powerful tool and you cant just change things here and not bother about other tabs. When you change all 96 bulls players into FA(using redmc), what you did in team tab with 96 bulls? Because there is still 96bulls players assigned to the 96 Bulls roster and in players tab you gave them -1 -1 TEAM ID1 and ID2. It must end with crash.
Im not saying do not try this or that, but use it wisely. The problem is, i never see crash on my end(sry year ago when i was trying to use scoreboard from erixxx). Maybe other users can confirm this because i feel stupid about it.

I still encountered a crash using erixx scoreboard but now in end of 3rd Quarter, was able to complete the game by running NBA in High priority. Would be nice if other users would test if further too. Anyway I have default 2K13 installed and played the same saved game from URB2015/URB2016 that I'm having crashes with URB Patched and never encounter a single crash.

I am starting to get crashes again sometimes in the end of the first quarter and end of the third quarter. I even did a clean reinstall and used the default scoreboard and ran the game on high priority. Even deleted the online data folder. I never had any crashing problems before until V24 or V25 came out then all these crashes started happening.

[slimm44]

I wish I could help you. I've never had a crash.

[skoadam]

It crashes only in 2015 and 2016 roster? Which mode? asso? season? quick game? Every team?

Hawks soldiers stop spamming my thread

[Niko Bellic]

It crashes only in 2015 and 2016 roster? Which mode? asso? season? quick game? Every team?

Hawks soldiers stop spamming my thread

I always play 12 minute quarters and season mode. I have used the FinalURB2015 roster file and the URB2015season file. I've played using the Raptors, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder. And I have had crashes with those teams. Is there anyway to disable the cut scenes during the end of quarters like the ones when they announce the upcoming games on Thankgiving or Christmas?

[jtrotterj]

It crashes only in 2015 and 2016 roster? Which mode? asso? season? quick game? Every team?

Hawks soldiers stop spamming my thread

I always play 12 minute quarters and season mode. I have used the FinalURB2015 roster file and the URB2015season file. I've played using the Raptors, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder. And I have had crashes with those teams. Is there anyway to disable the cut scenes during the end of quarters like the ones when they announce the upcoming games on Thankgiving or Christmas?

@steveurkel could you share me your v25 or v26 roster files? I haven't tested it yet with older URB release because I've already deleted my copies.

Would be nice if we can test that too so isolate what really the cause of crashing if it's a roster file or one of the mod files gone faulty. I've tested the v31 v32 to default 2K13 installed without any mod and never encounter a single crash BTW.

[Niko Bellic]

It crashes only in 2015 and 2016 roster? Which mode? asso? season? quick game? Every team?

Hawks soldiers stop spamming my thread

I always play 12 minute quarters and season mode. I have used the FinalURB2015 roster file and the URB2015season file. I've played using the Raptors, Lakers, Spurs, Thunder. And I have had crashes with those teams. Is there anyway to disable the cut scenes during the end of quarters like the ones when they announce the upcoming games on Thankgiving or Christmas?

@steveurkel could you share me your v25 or v26 roster files? I haven't tested it yet with older URB release because I've already deleted my copies.

Would be nice if we can test that too so isolate what really the cause of crashing if it's a roster file or one of the mod files gone faulty. I've tested the v31 v32 to default 2K13 installed without any mod and never encounter a single crash BTW.

I don't have the v25 or v26 roster files.

[skoadam]

crashstorm continue ehhh
ok guys, try this one
http://www.mediafire.com/download/knua7 ... /Saves.rar
there is v25 v26 and v27 or something like this i dont remember. Please test all of them one by one. You can also check other retro roster(i know mostly you prefer current roster but in the name of the science please check it). If problem will be still there it must be one of the file in zip parts.

[eustachy1]

Guys RLY i have never crash

[jtrotterj]

crashstorm continue ehhh
ok guys, try this one
http://www.mediafire.com/download/knua7 ... /Saves.rar
there is v25 v26 and v27 or something like this i dont remember. Please test all of them one by one. You can also check other retro roster(i know mostly you prefer current roster but in the name of the science please check it). If problem will be still there it must be one of the file in zip parts.

Thanks for uploading the previous roster release.

Tested URB 2015 Roster V7 (Asso - DAL vs SA 1MIN/Quarter)crashed in 3rd Quarter - 1st Test
Tested URB 2015 Roster V6 (Asso - DAL vs SA 1MIN/Quarter) not crashing yet in 7th consecutive test already

I hope this information would help to identify the cause why v7 and recent update such as v31 and v32 are having crash issues for some users like me.