NBA Live 14 Wishlist/Idea - Dynamic Hotspots

[JaoSming]

Did a video on it because visuals were needed (and hey, content) but I thought this was a neat idea I wanted to share after reading the Dime Q&A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9IdHAZ-yU8

phpBB [video]

Basically, using the Synergy data they get, interpolate that into ideal shooting locations for a player given the certain situation. This may be a Live 15 kind of thing, but w/e. Since they get data that tells them what Rondo likes to do offensively against other guards or bigger forwards, throw a hotspot on the court that tells the user 'Rondo in real-life would try and get here to shoot'. Or if nothing shows up, it means pass the ball.

The DNA stuff from Live 09 that would pop up was interesting, and I know when the hotspots were shown on the court it would tell you which way to drive...but this would be more dynamic and useful than a stat that shows up on the screen after the moves or shot was taken/done. Also, no boosts or anything for getting to this spot. Its supposed to be a simulation game, so give a spot the user should want the player to goto if they are playing them like real-life, but don't penalize or reward them for whatever decision they make.


Thoughts?

[NIB]

You just can't have a pre-determinated point or spot to make a jump shot or a layup inside the game, if that's your idea that's a crap one, imo... Never inside the game itself.

What you can have imo is a kind of graphic or some screen telling us the player type of playing, showing where he's gonna be able to hit more jump shots or drive to the lane more sucessfully, but outside the gameplay.

But.... Thinking better what you can have inside the game is a inteligent use of the circle that marks your controled player, some light can appear showing when some position is prefered then another, but this only can work with some pre-game explanation of the player abilities and tendecies.

[Andrew]

I'm pretty sure that JaoSming isn't talking about anything being pre-determined; he specifically says there doesn't need to be a boost or anything arcade-like. It would just be an indication of where a player prefers to shoot from, which could also be situation specific, based on tendencies and success rate data as collected by Synergy Sports.

I think it could work, it's an evolution of the Hot Spots concept and would make good use of the Synergy data. As far as an indicator being automatic, that should be a toggle option similar to playcalling diagrams. There should probably also still be an overlay that can be pulled up on the fly. User input and the reactions of the defense would still matter, but it'd be a good indication of how best to play with a particular player at the offensive end, as well as ensure that there is suitable AI in place that allows the CPU to have players play realistically when it is in control.

[JaoSming]

NIB, I think you missed the point of what I was saying. What you described are the hotspots thing that was in previously NBA Live games.

To try and sum it up briefly, with all the data Synergy provides it is possible to predict what a player will do with the ball in different situations. EA uses this for the AI so each players behave realistically, but this way would allow for the data used for the AI to be relevant to the user as well. Again, it's not telling you you have to shoot here, there should be no boosts/penalty for doing it or not. It is just a simple way to inform the user on what the real life player would try to do.

[Andrew]

Even in previous NBA Live games though, Hot Spots weren't a given basket; just an indication of how players shot from different areas of the floor. You could shoot better from there if the circumstances favoured it, but it wouldn't always go in.

[NIB]

No guys... Let's try to see together.

If there is marks (hot spots) inside the gameplay itself, i mean: if i choose a exhibition game between the lakers and the c's, if Nash gets the ball and some big man appears under the rotation to guard him, a hot spot will appear to determine which point of the floor he'll have more sucessfully chances to drive a play?

Cause if some red mark appears in the middle of the game itself, that's a bad idea. What you can have is a mark under the circle player icon that indicates what area of the floor he could perform a play more sucessfully, it's similar but a little bit diferent. If Jao's idea is putting or having some assist throughout the game.

In that example Nash circle will show a little red arrow light to the left or to the right, or the circle will just change its color to show you that this zone of the court it's worthy of a jump shot or (who knows) why not a pass.

I didn't say that the ball will necessarily goes in, i understand the "more realistic chance to grab a good play", even if the play doesn't happen sucessfully. What i am trying to see beyond Jao's idea is something less unreal and simply just more arcade.

Not saying it's a bad idea at all, just trying to adapt. I only dislike the idea if having a red mark on the floor showing me the way... That's annoying!

Oh, i'm just forgeting... Andrew comment about the "defence reaction" to this tool is also fundamental and i go deeper, players must develop ofensive and defensive skills based on their potentials.

Finally, i used to be a EA lover, but the Lives as Fifa simply stays too much arcade for me, so i change to 2K impressive realistic graphics simulation and Konami's PES6 (not the actual one) due to their more enjoyable gameplay. But i recon EA's drive for perfection at players progress.

[JaoSming]

Alright NIB, it is now obvious you didn't watch the video, or read my post, or read my reply to you. I'm not expecting you to do all three, but if you are going to reply like that you need to know what you are replying to.

This is not about finding the spot with the highest success rate, this is not about telling the player the best place to take a shot, this is not about rewarding the player for going to the spot or penalizing them for not.

The idea is highlighting the area the user selected player would attempt to go to and shoot in real life, given the current defensive situation.

Again, nothing arcadey, nothing gimmicky. If Nash (user) is being guarded by Cousins (CPU) at the left wing, and Synergy says Nash will normally drive right and do a runner in the lane in this situation in real life, instead of being like Live 09 and tell the user "Nash drive right 54%", this would highlight the lane. No boosts, just informing the user that real life Nash would try and take a shot here.

Do you get it?

[NIB]

Jao, calm down man... Heheheh

Your frustration about older conversations is simply too high, but i understand your feelings, so i am not going to use this lines to reply something later, period.
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Now... Down to the topic man, i understand from the very beginning your idea: show an area where the player will develop a normal play. Like a simulation, isn't it?

What i am trying to say is: "It's simply out question having highlighted areas during the game showing anything"

EA, 2K, Konami, whatever company simply won't buy an idea that puts something strange to the simulation inside the gameplay itself, even if a lighter one, IMO, Cause it goes against the law of simulation. When you go to a NBA game you simply do not see a red area at the 3 pt line showing me that allen will took that place to perform what he's used to do in real life, that's simply insane, IMO.

What you can use, is your PLAYER CIRCLE... You gotta use something that already exists and use in the favor of your idea.

[JaoSming]

I honestly, just do not know how to respond to you.

[JBulls]

:facepalm2: I honestly, just do not know how to respond to you.

There's clearly a language barrier here...

[NIB]

Do you know what's funny: This place (sometimes or for it's worst could be alltime) is like the circus show. One monkey eats a banana peel and all others do the same... Sad, poor and not needed.

Yeah, there's a language barrier. No one can answer a simple question: Do we talking about a red light appearing in the middle of the game?
English masters, just say y/n...

And for God sake, if someone answers (what it seems almost impossible) i'll sing happier then ever: "GLORY, GLORY, HALLELUJAH!"

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Full transcription at 1:18 ahead...

"What will make more sense is if dynamically, you get the ball with Rondo and like a LITTLE RED HIGHLIGHT SHOWS UP ON THE COURT, showing where if Rondo, if this is Rondo in real life, Rondo will want to make a move to this side of defender getting this spot..."

Jaosming, just a simple question based in YOUR VIDEO, NOT MY WORDS... YOURS... Do you assume that in your idea we'll have some kind of light showed at the moment of the game?

[chicagoRAW]

Off topic, but watching that video, man, NBA Live has great court art.

[JaoSming]

:facepalm2: I honestly, just do not know how to respond to you.

There's clearly a language barrier here...

It is not a language issue after his last response. He said he does not like additional video gamey stuff on the floors because it is not simulation or realistic. He said EA/2K/Konami would never do something like this because of that....which is silly since we have popups for dunkers/defenders/shooters, indicators for current player/who to pass to/who to defend, arrows and spots on the courts for plays, cell phone bars or a hotspot grid on the court for shooting, Nike replays with vertical leaps, all this stuff, but this 1 hypothetical and optional feature is too much.

Saying it is unfair, too impeding, not needed, etc, those are fine criticisms. Saying its too arcade-like and unrealistic, when the purpose is to quickly and accurately inform the user how to use players realistically makes my head hurt. I don't mind the idea of having this stuff in menus, like Live 08/09/10 did, but it didn't inform me, or other people, properly on how to use the player in a realistic fashion.

"What will make more sense is if dynamically, you get the ball with Rondo and like a LITTLE RED HIGHLIGHT SHOWS UP ON THE COURT, showing where if Rondo, if this is Rondo in real life, Rondo will want to make a move to this side of defender getting this spot..."

Jaosming, just a simple question based in YOUR VIDEO, NOT MY WORDS... YOURS... Do you assume that in your idea we'll have some kind of light showed at the moment of the game?

Yes, some kind of highlight, on the court, saying Rondo in real life would try and get to this spot to score.

[NIB]

:facepalm2: I honestly, just do not know how to respond to you.

There's clearly a language barrier here...

It is not a language issue after his last response. He said he does not like additional video gamey stuff on the floors because it is not simulation or realistic. He said EA/2K/Konami would never do something like this because of that....which is silly since we have popups for dunkers/defenders/shooters, indicators for current player/who to pass to/who to defend, arrows and spots on the courts for plays, cell phone bars or a hotspot grid on the court for shooting, Nike replays with vertical leaps, all this stuff, but this 1 hypothetical and optional feature is too much.

Saying it is unfair, too impeding, not needed, etc, those are fine criticisms. Saying its too arcade-like and unrealistic, when the purpose is to quickly and accurately inform the user how to use players realistically makes my head hurt. I don't mind the idea of having this stuff in menus, like Live 08/09/10 did, but it didn't inform me, or other people, properly on how to use the player in a realistic fashion.

"What will make more sense is if dynamically, you get the ball with Rondo and like a LITTLE RED HIGHLIGHT SHOWS UP ON THE COURT, showing where if Rondo, if this is Rondo in real life, Rondo will want to make a move to this side of defender getting this spot..."

Jaosming, just a simple question based in YOUR VIDEO, NOT MY WORDS... YOURS... Do you assume that in your idea we'll have some kind of light showed at the moment of the game?

Yes, some kind of highlight, on the court, saying Rondo in real life would try and get to this spot to score.

BINGO!
THANK YOU!
THANK U!

[NIB]

May i double post?

I like your idea Jao, at the end of the vídeo when i answered the first reply. What i don't like (IMO) is the red light, but the idea of giving the player a indication (plz correct me if i am wrong on this) gotta be minimal for don't imply on gameplay itself like a strange option, that's why i think about the player icon stuff.

[Patr1ck]

I wouldn't mind having either an on court diagram or a directional arrow on a player's icon pointing out a realistic tendency as long as I have the option to turn it off.

[Andrew]

I'd say that the indicator JaoSming added in the video was simply for demonstration purposes, illustrating the basic concept. I don't think he's suggesting it actually needs to be a big red light.

[NIB]

If you found a way to show a realistic tendence for a player (turning on/off - ofc) then you have a good tool, option, idea, whatever to play with it.

Don't wanna get off topic, but that's yours (i mean everybody that replies) diferential point of view between EA Lives to 2K games? I mean EA got more player realistics then 2K?

[Andrew]

Traditionally, I've preferred NBA Live's approach to dribbling controls, as the old Isomotion in NBA 2K always felt a bit awkward and clunky to me. I do like the right stick controls of NBA 2K13 though,

[deihatein]

I like the idea of the hotspot actually, but I think it would also be cool if the hotspot changes from quarter to quarter. For example Dirk has a hotspot from the midrange to start of a game, then when he start getting hot in the 3rd quarter from say the corner he get a hotspot in the corner. When in the 4th Dirk is basically unstoppable from mid to the corner.

How about the opposite when a player becomes cold from a certain hotspot? The marker could become blue or it disappears until the player starts shooting well from that spot again.

[JaoSming]

dei., I used the word hotspot more for the spot side of things, not necessarily actual hotspots.

No boosts, no benefit, just a place real-life Dirk would want to shoot from......although, I like your idea too, getting hot from the wing or something instead of getting hot/cold everywhere.

[deihatein]

dei., I used the word hotspot more for the spot side of things, not necessarily actual hotspots.

I guess I got used to the word hotspot lol.

No boosts, no benefit, just a place real-life Dirk would want to shoot from......although, I like your idea too, getting hot from the wing or something instead of getting hot/cold everywhere.

What I mean is, it gives you at least an idea that your player is getting comfortable shooting in a specific spot during a course in game. Similar to like running the same play when it works in your favor or an x-factor or something.

Will temporary a hotspot for a player work? After two or three possessions the player hotspot will be gone?

[shadowgrin]

Don't like it. It's like a graphical cpu assist or simulation nanny.
Same way I've never been a fan of hotspots except for use in practice mode where you get to know the areas you need to shoot better.

[NIB]

That's why i don't like to have some kind of assist... First i don't like the fact CPU is helping me. And second, it makes my game screen polluted, so must be something very discrete (why not using the player icon with some kind of legend to mark each assist you commonly have for each specefic player? - Cause that's a ressource you already have inside the gameplay, you don't deal with the second problem i describe above).

Even the assist being dynamically and discrete, users whom don't like CPU assist will have to deal with issues to accept this new ressource, but in other way, imagine playing the role season and your favourite team and player, whom develops into the playoffs, he is gonna change his behaivior in big games? I mean, the spot will give you diferent indications if your guy develop? Cause that's a nice idea to think about it.

It makes more sence to me work on this at the practice field then inside the real gameplay court.

And finally, getting a touch in what Andrew said above, you also can have some kind of display defensively, maybe a 'dynamic coldspot' (with a blue highlight appearing), but again, only in the pratice field, to keep your defensive guys alert and trainned for what's comming at the game. And ofc, developing during the season and in some career mode.

[shadowgrin]

That's why this...

I wouldn't mind having either an on court diagram or a directional arrow on a player's icon pointing out a realistic tendency as long as I have the option to turn it off.