Lakers Thread

[NovU]

Point proven w/ that db.

[Andrew]

Dwight Howard's Decision is Bigger Than Dwight Howard

Dwight Howard's decision on whether or not to remain with the Los Angeles Lakers following a tumultuous season is bigger than him -- it may have a significant effect on how free agents view the once-proud franchise in the future.

That's an important prospect for the Lakers of today, because their short term future hinges on their ability to attract marquee players in 2014. All of their biggest salaries will come off the books then, including Kobe Bryant's $30 million and Pau Gasol's $19 million, in hopes of being able to make a legitimate offer to the likes of LeBron James, among others, should he exercise his early termination clause with the Miami Heat.

The Lakers were clearly built to win now and in 2013-14, but reality has been a far cry from expectation around Hollywood after an embarrassing first-round exit from the 2013 NBA Playoffs.

Los Angeles needs to worry about what a Howard departure would mean for their ability to continue with their tried-and-true strategy of bringing in prime talent. Shaquille O'Neal couldn't wait to be the next great center in L.A. How much have things changed that Howard might not take more money to try to accomplish the same thing in a championship climate?

More than likely, it would be a grand way to say things aren't as glamorous as they seem in Laker-land and that the glory days of perennial competition for titles may be coming to a close.

I don't think the Lakers can lose their allure to free agents quite that easily given how successful they've been throughout the years, but it's an interesting point nevertheless. If Howard walks away from that extra $30 million or wants out via a sign and trade, even with the way he's handled his business the last couple of years that doesn't exactly give the Lakers a ringing endorsement and could perhaps make other players think twice. Their roster could be very thin as well, especially if Howard doesn't stick around. They'll finally have the money to make a big signing as they did with Shaq in 1996, but even before he arrived they were a 53 win team.

The article also suggests that Howard's best years are behind him, which I'm not too sure about. It remains to be seen whether he'll get much better, developing a post game that will serve him into the latter years of his career when he's not as athletic and more beaten up than he is now. However, as long as he's healthy he should remain one of the best centres in the league (if not the best centre in the league) and keep putting up numbers that are at least very close to some of his best years so far, for some years yet.

[Jackal]

I agree with you on the first part of your post, the legacy of the Lakers is their greatest selling point. Being in a huge market doesn't hurt either, players go to LA for the history and the lifestyle.

To put it in simple words; Howard is a wanker. The guy has fuck all of a clue of what he wants and even if he does..he's terrible at handling himself. You don't expect that from a "super star". Now I'm not saying the Lakers will sign James or anything like that, all I'm saying is Howard leaving won't be the end all of the franchise because..well as I said, he's a wanker. I think everyone pretty much sees that by now. Even fellow players. This guy called his previous team mates bums, so really...it's not like his opinion really counts for shit.

I do believe he won't be much better than a 20/10 guy. He's a second fiddle player trying to be a go to guy. I watched Shaq in his prime & I'm watching this guy and it's just sad. Shaq was athletic & skilled, this guy just relies on his athleticism. He has 0 post game and terrible hands. His footwork is shoddy at best, he backs down swinging his elbows more than relying on his lower body which gets him called for offensive fouls. He hasn't grown much as a player at all, he's whiney and acts like a kid who didn't get his favorite toy for Christmas.

It just makes me appreciate Bryant that much more, egocentric as he may be, he's grown leaps and bounds as a player back from when he started. Look at Tim Duncan, the guy is fundamentals to the T. Howard is just a guy relying on his athletics. A more defensive, less erratic version of Javale McGee.

[_Steve_]

In case of the Lakers you can blame Jim Buss for being a dickhead. He might be as stubborn as his dad was, but he's not that lucky in making good decisions. LA(L) hasn't been the best environment for success during the last few years. With D'Antoni being the 4th head coach since 2011 (or 3rd if you do not count Bickerstaff's short stint as a head coach) the Lakers lack the stability it needs to be successful.
Lakers might have gotten Nash and Howard in the off season, but at what cost? Signing Nash in his very late 30ties over 3 years ~ $27 million was not that smart.
Hiring/firing Brown and hiring D'Antoni despite the Zen Master was available the same time did also hurt the teams chances to stay successful.
I can't think of many offseason moves for the Lakers that will let them keep Howard. Afaik the luxury tax penalty will hurt the Lakers extremly next season with their current payroll, so despite the Time Warner Cable deal Lakers can't afford to spent even more for additional players. That makes Houston or even Dallas a more suitable landing point for Howard and will leave the Lakers in an much worse position as they were a year ago.

Edit: What do you guys think would be a solid plan B if the Lakers miss on Howard?

[shadowgrin]

Pau Gasol for Chris Paul via sign and trade.

[Jackal]

Like OMG Shadowgrin stop being such a Chaker fan! You're almost as bad as those Chpur bandwagonners w/e!

Plan B would be to stay in a holding pattern, let Gasol be the focal point of the offense with Bryant out for whoever knows how long still, perhaps they can do something with Gasol's expiring around the trade deadline and if not just let the year be whatever it turns out to be. The two biggest contracts expire then and from there on out you see what it is you can do depending on who is available and/or willing to come to LA.

And agreed about Jim Buss, dude is in way over his head I think.

[Stress Fracture]

Rebuild (if they know what that word means)

Also, they can let Metta write memoirs of the franchise

[[Q]]

The guy has fuck all of a clue of what he wants and even if he does..he's terrible at handling himself. You don't expect that from a "super star".

I do believe he won't be much better than a 20/10 guy. He's a second fiddle player trying to be a go to guy. I watched Shaq in his prime & I'm watching this guy and it's just sad. Shaq was athletic & skilled, this guy just relies on his athleticism. He has 0 post game and terrible hands. His footwork is shoddy at best, he backs down swinging his elbows more than relying on his lower body which gets him called for offensive fouls. He hasn't grown much as a player at all, he's whiney and acts like a kid who didn't get his favorite toy for Christmas.

Agreed on all points. He hasn't gotten much better in the last few years. hell, you could argue that he's worse than he was in orlando, especially in the year that he made the finals

Scary part is, Deandre Jordan has a better post game than Dwight. He put in the time and effort and learned a few new moves in the offseason

Plan B would be to stay in a holding pattern, let Gasol be the focal point of the offense with Bryant out for whoever knows how long still, perhaps they can do something with Gasol's expiring around the trade deadline and if not just let the year be whatever it turns out to be. The two biggest contracts expire then and from there on out you see what it is you can do depending on who is available and/or willing to come to LA.

this would not be a bad plan at all. they need some 3 point snipers like Korver and then play like the Grizzlies under Hubie Brown when Pau was the center of the offense

[_Steve_]

The Zen Master tells us how he thinks of D'Antoni's open floor game, his coaching in general and how he would get the Lakers back on track (again).
Interesting to me was:

"I think I'm probably going to end up like a Tex Winter at some point," Jackson said, referring to his longtime assistant coach who popularized the Triangle offense. "Maybe like a Pete Newell. Pete was on the sidelines for a number of teams for maybe the last 15-20 years of his life where he just encouraged people how to play. He sat with Lenny Wilkens in Cleveland for a number of years. He was a helpful consultant. That might be what I'm left to do -- be a mentor of some sort."

I'd love to see him in that role but I doubt it will be with (D'Antoni and) the Lakers.

[shadowgrin]

Mentor/assistant to Brian Shaw if he gets a head coaching job.

[Jackal]

"It's free agency and I have the opportunity to choose where I'm going to play," he said. "God opens doors, and I'm relying on my faith to direct me. "I don't think it's fair I get criticized for waiting on such an opportunity."

Really? You waited for that? Did you completely blank on the fact you forced your way out of Orlando?

"It's free agency and I have the opportunity to choose where I'm going to play," he said. "God opens doors, and I'm relying on my faith to direct me. "I don't think it's fair I get criticized for waiting on such an opportunity."

Mmhm, "win". Your second fiddle ass doesn't know what "win" means. See: getting tossed with the franchise on your shoulders.

So what do you think of D'Antoni? "I love him," he said. "He's a great person." Is he a great coach? "He's a great person and I'm glad we had the opportunity to be together," said Howard, which some will undoubtedly interpret as goodbye.

Pff, good luck to this basketcase in Houston. When Ron motherfucking Artest says he didn't like you when you first came to the team because of your behavior, you know you're a fruitcake. Take D'Antoni's gimmick coach ass with you for all I care.

Each time Roy Hibbert catches a seemingly uncatchable pass and swiftly finishes with a hook or a jumper or going to the basket strong I cringe. LA got this fool who flails his arms asking for the ball and once he gets it either fumbles it like an oaf or misses so terribly it looks like his free throws. Best go be second fiddle to the Rockets with Harden, Howard's no LA big man.

[Jackal]

"It has to be his decision," said Bryant in a video interview with Mike Trudell of Lakers.com that was released Saturday. "The last thing you want to do is convince a person that they want to be here."

"If you have to convince [someone to return], when challenges or adversity comes up next season, it's very easy to say, 'Well they had to convince me to be here anyway. I really didn't want to be here. I'd rather be [somewhere else] but they sold me on it,'" Bryant continued. "You want it to be his decision. When it's something that's rooted inside of him, it's something he champions. I just want to be there to assist his decision."

Haha Kobe already preparing for Dwight to whine & mope next year if the going gets tough. Still think Howard will walk, it's a loss but not the end of the world.

[Andrew]

Kobe has a fair point there. At the same time though, if a player is mulling over all the possibilities and you truly want them to stay, it doesn't hurt to emphasise how it benefits them to do that and reinforce the notion that the situation can work. Kobe is right in that Howard has to make up his mind for himself and be secure in the decision, but it also kind of sounds like he doesn't want him to return.

[Bruce]

I agree with what Kobe said, if D12 can not decide why he wants to be a Laker, he will never be the #1 man for the team. If he can't make up his own mind, better see him go, than ruin the team for the rest of a five year contract.

[SoF'nAwesome]

Howard is only making it worse for himself. Do the Laker fans even want him now?

[Jackal]

"I just like posting for the sake of posting. Do you guys think I'm cool now?"

[SoF'nAwesome]

What a negative energized bitch

[Jackal]

Aaaanyways...since you're too dumb to talk to, back on topic.

Peter Vecsey: Warriors feel they had excellent meeting with Howard. Rockets feel equally excited at prospects of signing him. Lakers' competition is stiff .

Not sure why Golden State thinks the Lakers want to do a S&T with them, if they were hell bent on doing that I'm sure there would be better offers out there than Bogut/Barnes. Can't blame them for trying though but I think Howard ends up on one of the Texas teams. First option being Houston and then Dallas.

Edit: Totally agree with this article, even if I don't see Phil coaching again.

Let's address the 118 million reasons why the Lakers should tell Dwight Howard to go:

It all seems so unseemly for a franchise that's never had to beg a player to play for them, except for that one time in 1996 when Cedric Ceballos went AWOL at Lake Havasu.

The Lakers purchased billboard space last week imploring the often torpid Howard, who became a free agent Monday, to stay with them, complete with social media hashtag to make sure everyone knew they were serious.

A ploy? Maybe. The worst thing that could happen to the Lakers is for Howard to return.

Why be coy? In his career, Howard hasn't won anything. His Orlando team reached the finals once and Kobe Bryant punked him, with the Lakers winning the 2009 finals in five games and Howard leading his team in scoring just once in the series.

Howard showed the Lakers what it's like to own an expensive-looking sports car that tops out at 65 mph. The only thing he dominated was people's attention. He is sleek-looking and muscular, but his output isn't what anyone in sports would call a difference-maker.

The Lakers went 45-37 last season with him, and in the NBA's West they likely could do as well without him.

To keep Howard, the Lakers can offer $118 million over five years ($23.6 million per). Other teams can offer $88 over four ($22 million per).

In the process of keeping Howard, a team that was $55 million over the salary cap
last season will hamstring itself financially for the next half-decade because the NBA's new cap tax rules become almost a dollar-for-dollar hit.

The only reason to keep the Dwight-must-stay story line alive is in the hope that some knucklehead owner (cue Donald T. Sterling) will make a stupid sign-and-trade offer for Howard.

The Lakers expect the best from Bryant coming off his Achilles tear, but no one can predict even the hard-working Bryant can be 100 percent for all of next season. So the most expedient thing to do is take whatever hit awaits next season in the standings and prepare for the future.

So here's a simple three-point plan:

1. Let D12 go. He's better suited in a city where expectations aren't too high and going two rounds in the playoffs makes a lot of people happy. An immediate $118 million savings.

2. Suck it up and let either Pau Gasol or Metta World Peace go. The Lakers would get an immediate cap exemption if they do, which puts them in a position to spend money on free agents a year later.

3. Let this Mike D'Antoni mess play itself out for one more season and then ask Phil Jackson back for 2014-15, perhaps at the same time his girlfriend, Jeanie Buss, is making Laker decisions and not brother Jimmy.

The Western Conference isn't exactly the Battle of Stalingrad. Three of the teams that finished with the most wins in the conference fired their head coaches after the season. After you get past Oklahoma City, aging (or ageless) San Antonio and Doc Rivers' Clippers, it's a raffle.

If Bryant's healthy, the Lakers can make the playoffs next season and still remake the team for the future. Rebuilding in Los Angeles is a forbidden word, but as the Dodgers have learned, all it takes is one player (Yasiel Puig!) to cause immediate amnesia.

Space limitations do not allow listing all 118 reasons why Dwight should not stay, but here's a topper to go out on: His free-throw percentage was .492 last season, his lowest for a full season. In his eight seasons in L.A., Shaquille O'Neal averaged 52 percent or more on his free throws and shot better than 49 percent six times.

Howard is not going to produce an NBA title next season, much less win three NBA titles in his next five seasons.

[Andrew]

It all seems so unseemly for a franchise that's never had to beg a player to play for them, except for that one time in 1996 when Cedric Ceballos went AWOL at Lake Havasu.

The Lakers purchased billboard space last week imploring the often torpid Howard, who became a free agent Monday, to stay with them, complete with social media hashtag to make sure everyone knew they were serious.

I understand where that sentiment is coming from, but I don't know that it's a wise stance. As popular a destination as the Lakers have been for free agents over the years, I don't think they're in a position to be that arrogant at this juncture. You certainly don't beg a player to stay or come to town, but you make a pitch the same as anyone else, especially when you're not in the best position to win it all compared to the more successful eras in team history.

If the only pitch they're going to make is "We're the Lakers, you should want to be here", then not just Howard but other top free agents are going to ask "Why?", not to mention "What have you won lately?" and "Do I have to play second fiddle to Kobe while he frantically guns his way up the all-time scoring leaders?". If there aren't satisfactory answers to those questions and concerns, it could be a rocky transition into the next era. History suggests the Lakers will land on their feet with at most one season in which they just barely miss the Playoffs, but that approach, with the current regime? Maybe not.

Even if they're to let Howard go, it's important that they handle the situation well and if possible, in a way that allows them to re-tool on the fly, as they've done throughout their history.

Why be coy? In his career, Howard hasn't won anything. His Orlando team reached the finals once and Kobe Bryant punked him, with the Lakers winning the 2009 finals in five games and Howard leading his team in scoring just once in the series.

Howard showed the Lakers what it's like to own an expensive-looking sports car that tops out at 65 mph. The only thing he dominated was people's attention. He is sleek-looking and muscular, but his output isn't what anyone in sports would call a difference-maker.

I think that's underrating Howard slightly and with the Lakers' roster he's not in the same position to put up quite the same numbers that he did in Orlando, but it's a fair point. After showing some promise in his offensive game in his last couple of years in Orlando, he doesn't seem to have made any further progress and there are questions as to whether he can truly be a franchise player, which he'd need to be as Kobe nears the end of his career.

The Lakers went 45-37 last season with him, and in the NBA's West they likely could do as well without him.

Again, I think that's marginalising Howard somewhat. I also think that's giving too little credit to the West, given that it's the stronger conference and the Lakers were a late run away - one in which Howard was the focal point - from missing the Playoffs. With Kobe's status still carrying a lot of what-ifs, though if he's healthy and a couple of other players on the team can step up, then another token Playoff appearance isn't out of the question.

But, having said all that...

1. Let D12 go. He's better suited in a city where expectations aren't too high and going two rounds in the playoffs makes a lot of people happy. An immediate $118 million savings.

2. Suck it up and let either Pau Gasol or Metta World Peace go. The Lakers would get an immediate cap exemption if they do, which puts them in a position to spend money on free agents a year later.

3. Let this Mike D'Antoni mess play itself out for one more season and then ask Phil Jackson back for 2014-15, perhaps at the same time his girlfriend, Jeanie Buss, is making Laker decisions and not brother Jimmy.

That's not a bad idea. Well, letting Gasol might be, if they want a good shot at making the Playoffs this coming season or aren't going to try to get something decent for him in return. Even if I think Howard is being a little underrated in that piece, it's looking like things might not be able to work out in Los Angeles, with it being a bad fit for him. If there's a decent sign-and-trade option on the table then I think they have to consider it; if you're aiming for a token postseason appearance then your draft pick isn't going to be stellar and there's questions about who's going to be around after next season. Parting with Howard isn't a terrible idea, but I think it has to be handled smartly.

[Jackal]

If Dwight Howard re-signs with the Lakers, I expect Jose Calderon to join L.A. as well so he can play with Howard and his buddy Pau Gasol. I'm told Dwight Howard and Jose Calderon are interested in playing together. Calderon may wait for Howard to make a decision before signing. It's no coincidence that when Dwight Howard to Houston rumors started heating up, there was a subsequent Jeremy Lin for Jose Calderon rumor.

I can see that working, don't know how they'd afford him though. Pau would get another guy to speak Spanish to.

In other news seems LA will lose Earl Clark to the Cavs, at 4,5 they'd probably have to pay 11 million just for him due to the taxes, steep price indeed.

[Andrew]

If not for the restriction on sign-and-trades for teams over the luxury threshold, I'd have suggested that the Pistons might have been willing to take on Steve Blake's expiring contract as $4-5 million wouldn't have been unreasonable for Calderon.

[Jackal]

phpBB [video]

Chuck, Shaq & Kenny speaking the truth.

Especially the last part from Shaq. Laker legends don't complain. Dwight isn't going to be a Laker legend.

[Jackal]

Minutes after finding out that Dwight Howard was leaving for the Houston Rockets, Kobe Bryant sent a message to the rest of the NBA with an instagram picture of him and Pau Gasol.

Now suddenly everyone's got love for Gasol. (Talking fellow Laker fans here..)



#vamos#juntos#lakerscorazon#vino
http://instagram.com/p/baJkWqxNiO/#

[benji]

It begins:

Arash Markazi ‏@ArashMarkazi 2s
Truth be told, Kobe always wanted Pau at center over Dwight.

Arash Markazi ‏@ArashMarkazi 57s
There are a lot of happy Lakers tonight.

Word is Steve Nash couldn't stand Dwight, btw. Much moreso than Kobe.

[Jackal]

Don't even start, is Dwight an amazing athlete and an addition to your favorite team? Yes.
Am I torn he's left? No.

Guy is a douchebag and watching him all of last year I summed up my thoughts on him in various posts. I can totally imagine Steve Nash not liking the guy, we see him from the outside and dislike him, can you imagine being close to his clowning ass? Dude, Ron motherfucking Artest didn't like the guy when he joined the Lakers. That speaks for itself.

Dwight's gonna get it from the LA media though:

Does a city of starry expectations want its favorite basketball team built around somebody who doesn't have the shoulders for it?

He spent much of the season recovering from back surgery, but even when he was close to 100%, his intensity was still 50-50. He played through pain, except when he didn't. He wanted the Lakers to be his team, except when it was his team. When Bryant suffered an Achilles' tendon tear, Howard also disappeared.