Albys RR10.1 (update 11th november 2013) released!

^ I mentioned the fact that I have been heavily involved in the game of basketball, not just playing it, but also following the NBA closely since elementary school in the late 90's.
I said this so I wouldn't be dismissed as just another guy talking out of his a$$, that was the only reason I said it, so my words would have some weight to it. You misinterpreted as me "stroking my ego" that's fine, you got your opinion.

That's my final comment on your problem, like I said... you want to continue going back and forth with me, bring some counter points to the issues I've brought up about this roster, and not your interpretation of how I'm coming across.... I'm not wasting any more time talking about irrelevance, I'm in here trying to get some light on the inconsistencies with this roster, not having to continuously explain myself to someone who's reading between the lines.

And no.... saying your team and player stats are "fine" doesn't explain any of the issues I've brought up at the top of the page.

^ yea like I said when I corrected myself, I take that back 85 is too generous for DeRozan, low 80's is proper... something like 82 would be right.. Chauncey Billups is rated an 82 in this roster, how messed up is that ? AN 82 rating for a guy who didn't play a whole year, and now is struggling yet he is rated like this is the same Chauncey in his final years in Detroit.... so Chauncey Billups is rated higher than not just DeRozan but a bunch of other players as well

Oh and yea I definitely expected the typical "Well make your own roster" bs, and why is that ? because you lack imagination when you try to diss me ?
why diss me in the first place, I didn't lie or say anything that's absurd in here, the mistakes I spoke about are extremely obvious, my points are well made.

I will be making my own roster for 2K14 when that comes out, from what I've seen in the various rosters in the last few months, I haven't looked into tendencies, but the Signature Skills, Attributes, and Signature Moves are definitely out of whack in every single one of these rosters, even from all the best known roster makers.
They all seem to follow the same formula like I said earlier, the player stats are either outdated and unrealistic or they try to do too much in the Signature Moves section. Like for example Blake Griffin had the same behind the back dribble that Jamal Crawford has.....
It's as if they're basing the stats on the players being in their prime which is the biggest mistake you can make.... for example Dwight Howard isn't Orlando finals D12, Deron Williams isn't Utah Jazz All Star D-Will....

I'm pretty sure Billups 82 overall also includes other intangibles he brings to the game like leadership, and basketball IQ. It's not just about playing ability.

^ i dont know, my pc just crapped out on me earlier today and my 2K13 is setup on there, so I can't check....
but to my knowledge there are no sliders for leadership and basketball iq.... I mean the sliders are just straight up actual playing ability.

Anyway that's basically the theme of this roster from what I've seen, it definitely seems like to me that some players are rated like they were in a time capsule from a few years ago..... I mentioned earlier like Dwight Howard, and Billups..... like I said I've only looked into a few teams and superstars, haven't gotten a chance to look at every single team.... but it's the ratings and the signature skills and moves that bother me from what I've seen.....
I can't speak on the player/team tendencies, team plays or any of the coach stuff at all, I didn't look into any of that...

Any solution for the salary bug?

+1

^ I mentioned the fact that I have been heavily involved in the game of basketball, not just playing it, but also following the NBA closely since elementary school in the late 90's.
I said this so I wouldn't be dismissed as just another guy talking out of his a$$, that was the only reason I said it, so my words would have some weight to it. You misinterpreted as me "stroking my ego" that's fine, you got your opinion.

That's my final comment on your problem, like I said... you want to continue going back and forth with me, bring some counter points to the issues I've brought up about this roster, and not your interpretation of how I'm coming across.... I'm not wasting any more time talking about irrelevance, I'm in here trying to get some light on the inconsistencies with this roster, not having to continuously explain myself to someone who's reading between the lines.

And no.... saying your team and player stats are "fine" doesn't explain any of the issues I've brought up at the top of the page.

I never said you were wrong, because I don't care about the 'issues" you brought up. I just have a problem with the way you are trying to get your point across, and I'm not the only one judging by your previous comments. I don't need to counter your points, because arguing about that with you is pointless. No matter what anyone says, you'll always be right in your eyes, as you have made very clear in your previous posts. I am getting very consistent stats, which is what we all want, a realistic game and I'm getting that so I'm very happy with the way the roster is. The "issues" you've brought up are issues to you, and I don't care about them because I'm getting great game play, I'm having a lot of fun and I'm getting very realistic stats. Just because something is an issue to you, doesn't automatically mean it's an issue to someone else, I hope you're able to realize that.

^ are you really going to sit there and deny that Blake Griffin and Dwight Howards signature skills are wrong ?
you really going to deny that Jamal Crawford being rated an 80 at Off the Dribble shot is correct when he's the best off the dribble shooter in the world, you're gonna deny that rating Billups a guy who's coming off a torn achilles not playing for a year being rated 82 when Demar Derozan is having his best year as a pro is rated a 77.....
and this is just from the few players I've looked at, I'm sure there are many more..... and you gonna deny that these are "not problems" because YOU'RE having fun ?

yea I guess you're right, we really don't have much to say to one another any more because it's pretty obvious to me that if you're telling me that these aren't problems to you, that you're not a simulation gamer and you're looking for an arcade experience..... so that's my bad for going back and forth with you, I assumed since you were in here you were a simulation guy.... sorry bout that brah

^ are you really going to sit there and deny that Blake Griffin and Dwight Howards signature skills are wrong ?
you really going to deny that Jamal Crawford being rated an 80 at Off the Dribble shot is correct when he's the best off the dribble shooter in the world, you're gonna deny that rating Billups a guy who's coming off a torn achilles not playing for a year being rated 82 when Demar Derozan is having his best year as a pro is rated a 77.....
and this is just from the few players I've looked at, I'm sure there are many more..... and you gonna deny that these are "not problems" because YOU'RE having fun ?

yea I guess you're right, we really don't have much to say to one another any more because it's pretty obvious to me that if you're telling me that these aren't problems to you, that you're not a simulation gamer and you're looking for an arcade experience..... so that's my bad for going back and forth with you, I assumed since you were in here you were a simulation guy.... sorry bout that brah

Dude, not only are you coming off like a total prick, you are so wrong on so many levels. There is more to ratings than just what you see and what your opinions are. Crawford is a decent shooter but very streaky, and much more of a volume shooter. Derozan is a very pedestrian starting shooting guard. He may score more points, but is horribly inefficient. As for the sig skills? Howard has been injured all year, but still has been defensively pretty good (think about how awful the other 4 defenders are on that team. Wait, nevermind, you're probably one of those guys who still thinks Kobe is a good defender).

Oh yeah, and overall rating is A HORRIBLE WAY to judge rosters.

If you don't like the roster, don't download it. The fact is, Alby's rosters have been THE PREMIER sim rosters for 2K along with Slimm's. If you can't see that, that's your problem. I'm sure you can find plenty of rosters where you can cheese with Jamal Crawford.

^ I'm not judging the whole roster simply on overall, haven't you read anything I wrote brah....
but ridiculous..... that you think DeRozan is "pedestrian" so 18ppg is "pedestrian" to you.... you argued yourself out of the discussion on that point alone....

But I'll humor the rest, and it's simply ridiculous that you think Dwight Howard is still a defensive anchor on the same level he was when he was in Orlando when he won multiple defensive player of the year awards.... I don't even have to explain this one.... and btw what does the other 4 defenders on the team have anything to do with one player's sig skill or slider ? are you saying because the 4 lakers are horrible defenders let's just keep D12's defense up for the sake of it ?

That you think Blake Griffin's signature go too dunk package should be "Bigman backscratchers" or that you think Crawford (and we're not talking anything about shooting here, we talkin about his off the dribble shooting slider) that you think his rating of 80 is proper when there isn't anyone in the world better than Crawford when it comes to pulling up for a jumper off the dribble... the only other guy that comes close to Jamal in this respect is JR Smith, and yup you guessed it, he's also rated an 80 in this.....
ridicilous that you think according to this roster JJ Redick (A PROTOTYPICAL SPOT UP SHOOTER WHO LOSES THE BALL IF HE TAKES MORE THAN 2 DRIBBLES) is rated 76 for this slider and Derrick Rose and Chris Paul are 77 and 79


yea come at me with facts bro.... not your opinions

^ are you really going to sit there and deny that Blake Griffin and Dwight Howards signature skills are wrong ?
you really going to deny that Jamal Crawford being rated an 80 at Off the Dribble shot is correct when he's the best off the dribble shooter in the world, you're gonna deny that rating Billups a guy who's coming off a torn achilles not playing for a year being rated 82 when Demar Derozan is having his best year as a pro is rated a 77.....
and this is just from the few players I've looked at, I'm sure there are many more..... and you gonna deny that these are "not problems" because YOU'RE having fun ?

yea I guess you're right, we really don't have much to say to one another any more because it's pretty obvious to me that if you're telling me that these aren't problems to you, that you're not a simulation gamer and you're looking for an arcade experience..... so that's my bad for going back and forth with you, I assumed since you were in here you were a simulation guy.... sorry bout that brah

Do you have any comprehensive reading skills, or do the letters just form words and sound like farts in your brain? I start my post by saying that I never said you are wrong. I understand the points you are making, and I'm old enough to respect another persons opinion. I'm saying that the problems you are finding, aren't problems to me because I am getting realistic results with realistic game play. Did you even play any games with the roster? No, I am not an arcade gamer which is exactly why I'm happy with my current Association with all-around statistics that are nearly dead even to their real life counterparts, same goes for the overall gameplay of the teams and players. You have an opinion, which is fine. But you can't accept that that opinion isn't shared by everyone else. In order to validate your own opinion you feel the need to tell us what an amazing expert you are on the NBA and basketball in general, which again, is your own opinion not shared by everyone else. You are giving your OPINION, which are not at all facts.

I think we're all really looking forward to your NBA 2k14 roster. I know that I will scrutinize every single little detail and statistic that's wrong, and I'm positive a lot of things will be wrong with it.

^ cool, but nah, as far as player ratings/tendencies/signature skills and moves, I guarantee you I will say confidently I know my shit when it comes to all of these, I'm extremely confident in that. As far as the coaching tendencies I don't give a shit about those, team plays I'm also well versed in.



AND MY GOODNESS SC12, on the Jamal Crawford volume shooter comment, you are absolutely clueless..... you're doing the same exact thing as these roster makers, basing your opinions of players on how they were in the past...... BUDDY take a good look at Jamal Crawfords shooting percentage this year.... his FG's for this season 358 made on 807 attempts, 3 pointers 114 made of 295..... that's 44% fg's and 39% threes..... and he's a volume shooter according to you ? gotdamn, I'm talking to kids in here I swear


and git outta here, I just saw the Raptors live from the 9th row last month, talkin bout DeRozan is "pedestrian" I seen the dude with my own two eyes.... lol, pedestrian player averaging 18 a game

^ cool, but nah, as far as player ratings and tendencies, I guarantee you I will say confidently I know my shit when it comes to player ratings and tendencies, I'm extremely confident in that, that will have to be my main focus. As far as the coaching tendencies I don't give a shit about those, team plays I'm well versed in as well.

Here's the thing with player ratings and tendencies though; They are largely opinion based. Even if yours are pretty much perfect, that doesn't mean it will translate well to the game. And I really am looking forward to playing with your roster, not just for scrutiny purposes but because I mostly agree with the points you've made, and you have a leg up on us non-Americans because you get to watch almost all of the NBA games (NBA League Pass is just way too expensive). The "errors" in the roster don't bother me because everything is turning out so amazingly well with my game. I just think you need to realize that they're opinions and not facts.

^ Sorry but I don't see it that way, the few errors in this roster I briefly talked about are fact.. otherwise I wouldn't have even said anything, I'm not someone who goes on a forum to argue his opinion, lol...
I mean it's a fact that Dwight Howard after massive back surgery even he himself said the other week he's not even close to Superman D12 from Orlando days... I mean that's fact.....it's fact that Blake Griffin should have Finisher instead of Interceptor sig skill.... He finishes contact layup dunks all game long, but this guy in this roster is telling me "Nah nah, Blake Griffin gets out and plays passing lanes to intercept passes more often than finishing" fact, just like it's fact that Blake's go too dunk is NOT a bigman backscratcher, I mean not to mention he's wearing the Lebron X shoes in this roster, and you can't even assign him a Jordan shoe when he signed with Jordan months ago..... and everything else I mentioned as well.... but it is what it is, I hope they get better at these things.... until then I'll be having to make my own adjustments to make it as real life as possible


and, bahahaha, I still can't stop laughing about the Derozan being pedestrian comment, I'm watching the Raptor Lakers game right now, Derozan's pedestrian ass has 26 points on 12-16 shooting with 5 rebounds and 5 assists..... pedestrian
hell I'm tempted to change my mind on him again and give him the original 85 overall, lol

is there anyway i can fix the accessories for the home and away colors?

for example when the Cavs play home they use white accessories and when they play away they use black.

HOME


AWAY

yea come at me with facts bro...

You mean like your 'facts'?

there isn't anyone in the world better than Crawford when it comes to pulling up for a jumper off the dribble... the only other guy that comes close to Jamal in this respect is JR Smith

Suggesting that these two players are the best dribble jump shooters in the league is the most laughable this in this entire thread, and pretty much discredits anything else you wish to say on the matter, or how you're a big baller and know the game, and saw them play from the 9th row

The funny thing is you think roster makers are throwing darts at a board, when in reality they've made the game play 50x closer to a realistic NBA product than that 2K releases. If a mediocre SG who plays in Canada isn't rated as highly as you feel he should, I can look past that, because of the wealth of immense positive impact the roster has on game play.

Here's a fun fact, though, since that's what we're shooting for. DeMarr DeRozan ranks 177th in the NBA in PER. 177th. 153rd in APER. These are widely regarded as the most accurate available advanced metrics regarding player production. So, really, aside from being 23rd in PPG in the NBA, he really doesn't bring much to the table, and honestly, he's not bringing those points at a higher rate than his peers in a similar range. DeRozan shoots 65.5% from Inside (League Average 64.5%), 42.0% from Close (39.1% League Average), 38.9% from Mid-Range (League Average 39%), and 25.3% from 3PT (League Average 36%). How is this guy special again? Cause he takes 15 shots a game?? Looks like an average NBA SG to me who helps a little more than better offensive guards in rebounding, and doesn't have a great jump shot... I have no idea if Alby's roster reflects this, because I don't even use his roster. That's how ignorant and foolish and childish you sound here -- that even if his roster is waaayyy off and incorrect, you still sound like the tool here. Kudos, I guess.

I've never seen him play from the 9th row, though, so I can't have a thorough grasp on his skill set.

^ Sorry but I don't see it that way, the few errors in this roster I briefly talked about are fact.. otherwise I wouldn't have even said anything, I'm not someone who goes on a forum to argue his opinion, lol...
I mean it's a fact that Dwight Howard after massive back surgery even he himself said the other week he's not even close to Superman D12 from Orlando days... I mean that's fact.....it's fact that Blake Griffin should have Finisher instead of Interceptor sig skill.... He finishes contact layup dunks all game long, but this guy in this roster is telling me "Nah nah, Blake Griffin gets out and plays passing lanes to intercept passes more often than finishing" fact, just like it's fact that Blake's go too dunk is NOT a bigman backscratcher, I mean not to mention he's wearing the Lebron X shoes in this roster, and you can't even assign him a Jordan shoe when he signed with Jordan months ago..... and everything else I mentioned as well.... but it is what it is, I hope they get better at these things.... until then I'll be having to make my own adjustments to make it as real life as possible

I agree with you about the Dwight Howard and Blake Griffin points. Those are a couple of the little things I changed myself. But I think you understand what I was trying to say that a lot of things are just a matter of how someone sees it. Anyways, it was a fun little debate and I'm glad it didn't get too personal .

Thanks folks for this constructive analys.
ChrisCP3Paul used some heavy words, but is not a big problem for me. Every work it could be better, so surely RR5 will be better than RR4, actually my best roster ever.

Some notes/answers:
1) Yes, i agree, Griffin skills and dunk packages needed some fixes. I put finisher and post proficiency, and fix dunks.
2) Jamaal Crawford is already one of best guards of the game. I agree with your note so I raised to 84 shoot off dribble, the best in the game (with Melo and KD). Improved also CP3 shoot off dribble. Lebron, Wade, Kobe, JR Smith, Melo, Joe Johnson, Harden, Parker Durant and Curry are others players with 80 or more shoot off dribble value. 84-85 is a max value possible for this skill, if you increase again every shoot off dribble is money.
3) JJ Redick this year improved his skills (ball handling, pass and shoot of dribbling). Now is a very good player and i think 76 for SOD is a right value.
4) DeRozan: very great athlete and slasher, good points production but his lacks are heavy (one of worst nba guards on PER real stats). 79 is new overall on RR5. With potential 80, is a possible All Star player in next years of association mode.
5) the overall ratings is not the best mode for judge a roster. Especially my roster.

Ciao!

Any solution for the salary bug?

is a problem of the game, between first and 2nd season the game raise some contract with crazy numbers.
I try search a solution for RR5.
For now, you can change salary bugged manually in your association file from edit player menu.
The best thing is change salary before draft or at least before starting season.

These are players with possible salary bugged on 2nd season:

Reggie Evans
Jeff Adrien
Ben Hansbrough
Chris Copeland
Pablo Prigioni
Mozgov
Cartier Martin
Garret Temple
Anthony Tolliver
Kyle O'Quinn
Daequan Jones
Will Bynum
Damien Wilkins
Aaron Baynes
Gary Neal
Kevin Jones
Mike James
Ivan Johnson
Raja Bell
Jarvis Varnado
Chris Andersen
Mickael Gelabale
Alan Anderson
Patrick Beverley

Ciao!

Ciao means hello

Ciao!

Ciao means hello

In Italian, ciao means hello, but also means goodbye.

Alby, if I could provide you the same data I give Med on zoned FGA and FG% would you use it for your shooting tendencies and ratings?? All you need is a simple formula to translate the data from raw to ratings. Let me know.

Alby so let me get this straight ? you're basing your player statistics on the PER of the players ? well ok that explains everything then..... I don't know how else to explain it to you, but the PER is not a representation of a player's abilities on the court or how good he is at something specific, I wrote down an explanation of PER below. First let me use an example... ok last nights Lakers/Raptors game, Demar Derozan had a +/- PER of +0, and let's go ahead and look at his stat line for the night... he was 12-18 fg's, 4-4 ft's, 5rbs, 5asst, 1stl, 0trnvr...... and yet his PER for the game is +0, he played 44 minutes.
As you can see, DeRozan has a very good efficient game and yet he's a +0, Kobe Bryant had 41 points on 11-22 shooting and he was a +0 as well. I had no idea you guys based it on PER, you can see how strange PER can be at times just by looking at these two players from last night's game. The season PER leaders is the most accurate look at PER, but on a game to game basis it can be extremely lopsided at times depending on how many minutes were played.

I don't think you guys are really understanding what PER is and does... here in this link you can find a clear explanation of what PER really is, this article is written by the man who actually invented PER, John Hollinger who worked in the media prior, but a few months ago was hired by the Memphis Grizzlies http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2850240


And Alby, as far as your comments about off the dribble shooting how Kevin Durant and Carmelo are the best at it.... ok you have somewhat of a point on Carmelo, because in Denver when he would isolate almost all the time he was a great great off the dribble shooter from the triple threat in the high post, but this season for the Knicks he doesn't play or isolate like he did in Denver, so he isn't pulling up off the dribble jacking up shots like he did in Denver. Once again you're looking and judging a player on who he used to be and how he used to play, not how he is playing this year. He doesn't play like he did in Denver anymore, yea he still shoots off the dribble, but for the Knicks this year he shoots mostly off the catch and a lot in transition. Since he doesn't have to isolate all the time like he did in Denver he doesn't do his specialty triple threat off the dribble shooting anymore nearly as much as he used too. He is playing smarter this year and jacking up less shots, it's why his shooting percentages have improved.

And Kevin Durant, you're confusing his game, his strength is shooting on the catch, and the world knows KD's shoot and catch game is flawless, there is nobody better in the world than him at catching and shooting.... but his dribbling and shooting usually ends up in an awkward off balance shot that isn't very high percentage, just watch one full game and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. JR and Jamal have the ability to completely lose their defender or throw them off balance and then pulling up for a nice, properly balanced jumpshot... and that right there is literally, Shooting off the Dribble...
I mean if you still don't understand, then let me tell you to look at it this way... with the game on the line the Coaches on teams will run the one play for their best player using his greatest strength. So for the Thunder, their coach will draw up a play where Durant goes through screens to catch and shoot the ball, and for the Knicks they will typically post up Carmelo either on the low block or the high post.... and now when it comes to JR Smith and Jamal Crawford, their coaches just give them the ball and leave them in a complete isolation situation... That's how good these two guys are at creating space and shooting off the dribble, that coaches let them go isolation with the game on the line all the time.


BigHort thanks for coming out, but here you go.... for the PER stuff read my above comment where I explained it to Alby.... and firstly and obviously I do think roster makers do a better job than 2K, but they fall short in things I discussed. They just don't seem to be fully familiar with some players.
The Derozan point, are you really shitting on a guy who puts down an efficient 18 points 4 boards 4 assists a game on 44% fg shooting.
And me calling Jamal and JR the best ? you must have no idea who these guys are and what their strengths are. Both JR and Jamal are known by even casual fans to have the ability to put their dribble down, create separation and get their shot off, A-N-Y-T-I-M-E THEY FEEL LIKE.... Read my above post to Alby explaining the Melo Durant shot off the dribble stuff for further explanation...

And you from New York, have you never gone to a Knicks game ? because I have, here's your own JR puttin in work.... yea that's right, off the dribble you guessed it..... and DeRozan puttin in work down in second pic for good measure

Alby so let me get this straight ? you're basing your player statistics on the PER of the players ? well ok that explains everything then..... I don't know how else to explain it to you, but the PER is not a representation of a player's abilities on the court or how good he is at something specific, I wrote down an explanation of PER below. First let me use an example... ok last nights Lakers/Raptors game, Demar Derozan had a +/- PER of +0, and let's go ahead and look at his stat line for the night... he was 12-18 fg's, 4-4 ft's, 5rbs, 5asst, 1stl, 0trnvr...... and yet his PER for the game is +0, he played 44 minutes.
As you can see, DeRozan has a very good efficient game and yet he's a +0, Kobe Bryant had 41 points on 11-22 shooting and he was a +0 as well. I had no idea you guys based it on PER, you can see how strange PER can be at times just by looking at these two players from last night's game. The season PER leaders is the most accurate look at PER, but on a game to game basis it can be extremely lopsided at times depending on how many minutes were played.

I don't think you guys are really understanding what PER is and does... here in this link you can find a clear explanation of what PER really is, this article is written by the man who actually invented PER, John Hollinger who worked in the media prior, but a few months ago was hired by the Memphis Grizzlies http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2850240

Maybe if you'd read your own explanation of PER, you wouldn't get it confused with +/- on the floor (what you were describing as "+0")
PER is an attempt at a metric to measure "Player Efficiency" field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. Then it's attempted to be "pace-adjusted." While it may not be perfect, it does list LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Dwyane Wade, and Tony Parker amongst the Top 5 NBA leaders, so I'd argue it's doing a pretty good job based on purely on the value of those players to their respective teams.

Look, I understand that you think that you can make a great roster based on your breadth of knowledge of the NBA. But there's a difference between paying attention to your favorite player's ratings and making a roster that works and can simulate closely to real-life. You need to understand how the attributes work together to simulate real life. When you do that and offer evidence to Alby's in the form of real-gameplay stats or sim stats, then I think it would be fair to attack his ratings. But until now, no one has come close -- that's why he's the "Roster Father."

If you want to make a roster based purely off advanced statistics, see the new stats section on NBA.com. They'll offer more info than you'll ever need.

Also, addressing the heights issues above: All heights and weights were based upon the measurements given on NBA.com. The only players that were fudged on was Kevin Durant "6-9 --> 6-10" and Paul George "6-8 --> 6-10": both players who are arguably even taller. If you don't like it in your roster, feel free to change it.

With that being said, can't wait for RR5, should be great.

Also it probably needs to be said that +/- on the floor means:
+0 -- The Raptors scored as many points as they allowed when DeMar DeRozan was on the floor
+14 -- The Lakers scored 14 more points than the allowed when Dwight Howard was on the floor
-8 -- The Raptors allowed 8 more points than they scored when Aaron Gray was on the floor

Alby so let me get this straight ? you're basing your player statistics on the PER of the players ? well ok that explains everything then..... I don't know how else to explain it to you, but the PER is not a representation of a player's abilities on the court or how good he is at something specific, I wrote down an explanation of PER below. First let me use an example... ok last nights Lakers/Raptors game, Demar Derozan had a +/- PER of +0, and let's go ahead and look at his stat line for the night... he was 12-18 fg's, 4-4 ft's, 5rbs, 5asst, 1stl, 0trnvr...... and yet his PER for the game is +0, he played 44 minutes.
As you can see, DeRozan has a very good efficient game and yet he's a +0, Kobe Bryant had 41 points on 11-22 shooting and he was a +0 as well. I had no idea you guys based it on PER, you can see how strange PER can be at times just by looking at these two players from last night's game. The season PER leaders is the most accurate look at PER, but on a game to game basis it can be extremely lopsided at times depending on how many minutes were played.

I don't think you guys are really understanding what PER is and does... here in this link you can find a clear explanation of what PER really is, this article is written by the man who actually invented PER, John Hollinger who worked in the media prior, but a few months ago was hired by the Memphis Grizzlies http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&id=2850240


And Alby, as far as your comments about off the dribble shooting how Kevin Durant and Carmelo are the best at it.... ok you have somewhat of a point on Carmelo, because in Denver when he would isolate almost all the time he was a great great off the dribble shooter from the triple threat in the high post, but this season for the Knicks he doesn't play or isolate like he did in Denver, so he isn't pulling up off the dribble jacking up shots like he did in Denver. Once again you're looking and judging a player on who he used to be and how he used to play, not how he is playing this year. He doesn't play like he did in Denver anymore, yea he still shoots off the dribble, but for the Knicks this year he shoots mostly off the catch and a lot in transition. Since he doesn't have to isolate all the time like he did in Denver he doesn't do his specialty triple threat off the dribble shooting anymore nearly as much as he used too. He is playing smarter this year and jacking up less shots, it's why his shooting percentages have improved.

And Kevin Durant, you're confusing his game, his strength is shooting on the catch, and the world knows KD's shoot and catch game is flawless, there is nobody better in the world than him at catching and shooting.... but his dribbling and shooting usually ends up in an awkward off balance shot that isn't very high percentage, just watch one full game and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. JR and Jamal have the ability to completely lose their defender or throw them off balance and then pulling up for a nice, properly balanced jumpshot... and that right there is literally, Shooting off the Dribble...
I mean if you still don't understand, then let me tell you to look at it this way... with the game on the line the Coaches on teams will run the one play for their best player using his greatest strength. So for the Thunder, their coach will draw up a play where Durant goes through screens to catch and shoot the ball, and for the Knicks they will typically post up Carmelo either on the low block or the high post.... and now when it comes to JR Smith and Jamal Crawford, their coaches just give them the ball and leave them in a complete isolation situation... That's how good these two guys are at creating space and shooting off the dribble, that coaches let them go isolation with the game on the line all the time.

Don't confuse skills and tendencies...
Yes, in NYC Melo play different than Denver, but his shoot off dribble is always great.
In my RR I changed players tendencies, and the team game-style (coach profiles) and playbooks influence players.
But the players skills are another thing.

Now you talking about tendencies (also for Durant), so this is another subject.
And in my RR4 Durant catch and shoot tendencies is already 99, and isolation tendencies are very high for JR Smith and Crawford.

Alby's please add DJ White to the Celtics roster next update as well as Tim Ohlbrecht a 6'11 255lbs Center for Houston.