2012 NBA Finals: (2) Heat vs (2) Thunder

[Sauru]

I know what you are saying. MJ's clutch genes are something Lebawn could never have.

one thing is for sure, the entire nba hopes he never fully gets it. if lebron finally gets to a point where being talked about as being the best player is no longer good enough and starts playing on a new level where the question is laughable then the nba is in for a world of hurt. i think most people consider lebron the best talent in the league but he could be better. its crazy when you think about it but if he stops competing against the other players and starts competing against himself he will be unstoppable

[RedPhazon8]

one thing is for sure, the entire nba hopes he never fully gets it. if lebron finally gets to a point where being talked about as being the best player is no longer good enough and starts playing on a new level where the question is laughable then the nba is in for a world of hurt. i think most people consider lebron the best talent in the league but he could be better. its crazy when you think about it but if he stops competing against the other players and starts competing against himself he will be unstoppable

It would be scary if that happens while he's still in Miami, it would be too bad though since if he found the mentality he had in the finals while with Cleveland instead of letting the all the outside stuff get to him it would of been awesome to see him get the Cavs a championship. I guess that service is in the past though and we gotta face what's happening now.

[NovU]

if he found the mentality he had in the finals while with Cleveland instead of letting the all the outside stuff get to him it would of been awesome to see him get the Cavs a championship.

I think mentality would have been a factor but not a major one. Here's a number game that everybody loves...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6959

The blog itself tells you little but their discussion is where the money's at, and gets to inevitable MJ-Bron talk which again everybody loves.

Cleveland's % of winning Championship
2006: 0.0
2007: 4.6
2008: 0.5
2009: 36.7
2010: 30.0

Expected number of titles: 0.718

It's difficult to win championships. Jordan had pretty similar talent on his roster in his first 5 seasons as Lebron did in his 7-year run. Pippen and Grant had already started to emerge in seasons 4 and 5, and Cartwright was pretty solid - definitely comparable, if not better than, the talent Lebron had in his last two seasons.

With that talent, the Bulls won 47 and 50 games, and never made the NBA Finals. Before that, they never made it past the first round. So I think Jordan would've definitely had problems winning in Cleveland with the roster they had.

Later the Bulls acquired more talent and won 6 championships, fielding some of the greatest teams in NBA history. In fact, they won 55 games and lost in the second round to would-be finalists Knicks in the year Jordan was gone.

Bulls had some of the greatest teams in NBA history (including THE greatest in '96) and Jordan was a major, major part of the team. However, the team was stacked and it was the team effort that won all those championships.

[RedPhazon8]

I think mentality would have been a factor but not a major one. Here's a number game that everybody loves...

Probably, but I also forgot to include the new style of play he also used this season, being a post up player along with finishing at the rim could of been a huge difference along side that mentality.

[shadowgrin]

Bulls had some of the greatest teams in NBA history (including THE greatest in '96) and Jordan was a major, major part of the team. However, the team was stacked and it was the team effort that won all those championships.

[Nick]

To illustrate a more important point, here's a decades worth of "randomly" selected Chicago Bulls basketball teams. These are their records in both regular season and playoff games decided by three points or less. Which ones feature Michael Jordan? Which ones won a title? Which one won 72 games?

Bulls: 5-8 (.385)
Bulls: 7-8 (.467)
Bulls: 10-7 (.588)
Bulls: 15-5 (.750)
Bulls: 6-11 (.353)
Bulls: 6-4 (.600)
Bulls: 13-4 (.765)
Bulls: 8-9 (.471)
Bulls: 4-2 (.667)
Bulls: 6-9 (.400)

Give up the answer, benji!

[Andrew]

I don't know that any of the Bulls teams were particularly stacked. Having Jordan and Pippen at the top with third players like Horace Grant for the first threepeat then Dennis Rodman for the second certainly made them formidable. Give or take a few noteworthy exceptions, there weren't a whole lot of stars or borderline stars outside their three top players though. Solid and serviceable role players who did their job and had their moments, sure, but saying they were stacked is being a bit generous towards some of those role players.

[shadowgrin]

For the love of Kobe Andrew disrespect Luc Longley and Bill Wennington again and you will taste the backside of my glove and prepare for our duel.
Those two guys in the team, STACKED. End of.

[Andrew]

No love for Dickie Simpkins?

[benji]

Because shadow's an ugly dope trying to pawn off all his crappy games onto my once pristine Steam account and doesn't know how to actually discuss things, I granted him a bit of a waiver. But alas, here we are.

Give up the answer, benji!

They're in order:
1990-91 Bulls: 5-8 (.385) - Title + Jordan
1991-92 Bulls: 7-8 (.467) - Title + Jordan + 67 wins
1992-93 Bulls: 10-7 (.588) - Title + Jordan
1993-94 Bulls: 15-5 (.750)
1994-95 Bulls: 6-11 (.353) - Some Jordan
1995-96 Bulls: 6-4 (.600) - Title + Jordan + 72 wins
1996-97 Bulls: 13-4 (.765) - Title + Jordan + 69 wins
1997-98 Bulls: 8-9 (.471) - Title + Jordan
1998-99 Bulls: 4-2 (.667)
1999-00 Bulls: 6-9 (.400)

[Houndy]

Let me guess.. we're comparing Jordan with LeBron?

[Mavs4Life]

I think they're comparing Kobe VS Jordan VS LeBron.

[NovU]

It's no brainer really when it comes down to who's better between those three though.

MJ not only won but he did in such a manner that it was clearly his plays that decided the outcome which led to a lot of good things. That provided pressures on upcoming superstars to not just win but to win in a spectacular fashion, something Kobe seemed to get caught up in all the time with his shoot first and pass later mentality. Lebawn however decided to shy away in couple occassions as shown in last year's Finals.

Ultimately MJ's a winner in any discussion. What he did was just incredible, 6 consecutive titles(excluding 94 & 95). People expecting Lebawn or Kobe to duplicate Jordan's career is bit folly.

But again this notion that MJ never had a choke moment in his career also is a joke. Saying that out loud is a pure case of successes grow in the mind of fans while failures are diminished as time goes by. Much gratitude to the eventual successes.

[benji]

The no-brainer is that Jordan and LeBron were/are the best players in the game during their era.

Kobe never came close. Including Kobe in a discussion with LeBron and Jordan is like including Robert Horry and Derek Fisher.

[shadowgrin]

Kobe never came close. Including Kobe in a discussion with LeBron and Jordan is like including Robert Horry and Derek Fisher.

There's nothing like a Finals thread to make all the hibernating retards come out and share their vast knowledge of the game.

[benji]

And here comes the assault on the American patriots, those who believe in American citizens who never fly off to Italy to perfect their game or learn a language other than English. To assault those who join with eleven other apostles and deliver the message.

Quite frankly it's disgusting and you should respect the now proven place of True America in Miami.

[Andrew]

Saw this linked over at B-R: Tyler's Think Tank: Lebron vs. MJ

[NovU]

Saw this linked over at B-R: Tyler's Think Tank: Lebron vs. MJ

MJ by just 3.5? Too close...

[Andrew]

I felt so too, but LeBron does deserve his due as already having established himself as one of the best players the league has ever seen.

[shadowgrin]

More fabricated hype and lies for LeBron James.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

James sat under overcast skies on the Ritz terrace, wearing a white T-shirt with the slogan EARNED NOT GIVEN and sipping a Sprite.

Lies. Given by the refs.

he gathered his teammates at American Airlines Arena before Game 5. "This is what I told them," he says. "If someone came to you right now and told you, 'If you don't win tonight you won't see your family again,' how would you play? Approach this game like your family is in danger. How bad do you want to see your family again?"

Clearly, James is a psychopath.

He couldn't find his Finals MVP trophy.

"Where's my trophy?" James hollered, rummaging through his locker. "I left it right here!" He rushed through the tunnel back to the court, where he had to give an interview, but the moment it ended he asked, "Have you seen my trophy? Who took my trophy?" On the way to the press conference, where the MVP trophy was waiting all along, he relaxed a bit. "It's just an individual award, anyway," he says. "It's not the one that matters."

More lies and pretension. What a fake.

Coach Erik Spoelstra presented the Heat with a replica of the Larry O'Brien trophy before the playoffs began. It was black ceramic, and everyone on the roster signed it with a gold marker. "It was a commitment we made to each other to do everything it took," James says. "That trophy became our goal." After each victory, Spoelstra drew one gold line on it.

lol Riley.

Basketball tends to reward its patient stars, like Nowitzki, who bided his time and waited his turn. James spent nine years chasing a title, all the way from Cleveland to Miami

Waited? More like choking for both of them. lol patient, if LeBron was patient he would still be with the Cavs.

[imefimef]

The beauty of Shadowngrin's comments (sounds like an oxymoron right?? I Know!) is trying to figure out the line between actual opinion and just jokies.

[shadowgrin]

I find your post insulting, I may be a moron but I definitely am not a bovine.