2012 Season MVP Talk: KD vs LBJ vs Rest

[NovU]

I am guessing top 2 seeds for both conference are pretty much locked. I don't see the Heat winning the conference nor for the Spurs. The Heat will be resting players frequently from now on(8 games in 10 days? No reason to risk), while the Spurs has tougher schedule ahead than the Thunder. At least they both got a comfortable lead from rest of the pack though so the focus moves to how much rest the stars can get for the playoffs.

Having said that, you guys probably have someone in mind by now who the MVP is. And to keep the tradition alive, the league will pick either KD or LBJ, two best players from top 4 teams.

TEAM RECORD

	W/L	PCT	GR	PTS/G	Opp PTS/G	Ranking
Oklahoma Thunder	43-16	0.729	7	102.9(2nd of 30)	96.2(16th of 30)	#2
Miami Heat	41-17	0.707	8	100.2(4th of 30)	93.5(6th of 30)	#4

+1 point for Durant.
Team record wise, KD obviously holds an upperhand. But Lebron has a case in that his teammates missed quite a bit of games while the core for the Thunder have remained relatively healthy throughout the season.

SRS

+1 point for James.
Simple Rating aka SRS suggests us that Lebron brings bigger impact(positve) than Durant, to the team. And the Heat suffer more when Lebron is not on the floor, while the Thunder do fairly OK even when Durant is not on the floor.

Basic Boxscore Stats(Screw table, too lazy)
-----------MPG---FG%-----3p%----FT%----OFF---DEF---RPG---APG---SPG---BPG---TO---PF---PPG
Durant---38.5---0.500---0.377--0.856--0.6----7.3---7.9---3.5-----1.4----1.2----3.7---1.9---27.6
James---37.7---0.530----0.363--0.763--1.6----6.4---7.9---6.4-----1.9----0.8----3.4---1.5---26.8
TIE
Both produced amazingly efficiently. Arguments can be made for both players. Can't go wrong either way.

Advanced

+1 for James.
I don't think any explanation is needed here.

Homerism aside, I do honestly think that Lebron has been better than Kevin Durant this season. He gets my vote for MVP rightfully. But I think KD will eventually win it as the team record usually overshadows all other criterias.

So who's your MVP? Discuss.

[Martti.]

With the season LeBron's having, he should win it.

[Lamrock]

Um Chris Paul?

[Andrew]

I feel it's between LeBron and Durant as well. Both are having great seasons, their teams are winning and no matter which one of them wins it, it'll feel like the other was snubbed. LeBron gets the nod in my book, but I hope the voting is close.

[NovU]

Um Chris Paul?

What about him?

[Lamrock]

I'm surprised he isn't getting traction for this award. Only LeBron really has better numbers and he made the clippers actually good. If they manage to pass the lakers and win the division, I think he might have a shot.

This award is Durant's to lose though.

[NovU]

It's unfortunate that Chris Paul only has advanced stats to show for, which I actually think should be enough for him to be in the discussion right up there with Lebron. But as usual, voice of "Stats are not everything!" outpowers the minority report. And always will...

But on the bright side, he has been one of everyone's favorites among staticians, while Kobe has never been likable to them because Kobe made their job 10x harder(he never really lived up to his reputation with statistics, and his fans marked their works as hating and wrong).

[Alpha_]

LeBron. Who else?

[Andrew]

This award is Durant's to lose though.

Although LeBron gets my vote, if Durant gets the nod then I don't believe it's completely unwarranted or undeserved. The MVP award gives recognition to a standout player and Durant's right up there this season.

[NovU]

I don't necessarily think Lamrock's standpoint is wrong though. There is no clear cut outline in voting for a MVP. And each year, media pretend to choose the true best player based solely on the individual performance, which to some people should be by the statistics. As much as likability, and sympathy can be unspoken justifiable factors in person's decision to vote for a player, same can be said for the statistical standpoint like Lamrock's. It's probably why he had to mention Chris Paul as well.

But at the same time, we can't have players like Lebron winning it all the time because of his statistical excellence. So I think it's somewhat justifiable to give others a recognition time to time, within reasons ofc. And Kevin Durant... is humble, likable, loyal, durable, hasn't-won-it-b4 and his team is on top of western conference. That makes him an appealing candidate to many I guess.

[atlwarrior]

I will go as far to say... Why not consider Kobe for MVP? He's the leading scorer in the NBA at 33 years old, has quite a bit of 40 point games, and the Lakers are rolling right now. They are also sitting at 3rd in the west!

I would also consider Dwight Howard but his recent injuries might keep him from getting it.

[shadowgrin]

Kevin Love.

[Lamrock]

My argument for Paul isn't just stats. If it was, LeBron would be my pick. MVP's tend to come from teams who improve, and Paul alone is the reason for the Clippers going from bad to good.

I figure his case is similar, but better than 04-05 Nash. They sucked last year - were a .390% team, and then they trade half their rotation (including their third best player in Eric Gordon) and now they're at .617% and could win the division. His metrics aren't too far off LeBron's, and with Miami continuing to underwhelm (they're better than the Clips, the D-Wade, Chris Bosh and company are a better supporting cast than Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan and a bunch of scrubs), I consider team improvement to be a factor in this case. His raw stats don't necessarily jump off the page, but Nash (my favorite player) posted 16 ppg, 12 apg and 19 ppg, 11 apg in his MVP years. 19 PPG, 9 APG, 2.5 SPG should be enough to put Paul in the conversation over Kobe at least.

Kobe for MVP is a joke. The Lakers are having their worst season in years, and Andrew Bynum has been better all year. He leads the league in scoring by taking a million shots, but Durant is a close second, and is having a much better season all around.

[atlwarrior]

I wouldn't necessarily say the Clippers have "scrubs". They actually have a deep bench and Mo Williams is one of the best sixth man in the league but you do make a strong case for CP3.

[benji]

As requested...

WS leader minus second place player on team:

Code: Select all

Kevin Love      6.3
LeBron James      5.8
Tyson Chandler      3.8
Chris Paul      3.2
Kevin Durant      2.8
LaMarcus Aldridge      2.4
Joakim Noah      1.8
Marc Gasol      1.6
Marcin Gortat      1.3
Paul Millsap      0.6
Pau Gasol      0.1
Dwight Howard      0.1

WS leader as % of top three players WS on the team:

Code: Select all

Kevin Love      58.4%
Tyson Chandler      49.4%
LeBron James      48.9%
Chris Paul      45.6%
LaMarcus Aldridge      43.8%
Kevin Durant      40.9%
Marc Gasol      40.7%
Marcin Gortat      40.3%
Paul Millsap      40.2%
Joakim Noah      40.2%
Dwight Howard      39.2%
Pau Gasol      35.6%

Difference between WS/48 leader out of top three WS players and second place WS/48:

Code: Select all

Chris Paul      0.093
Tyson Chandler      0.078
LeBron James      0.067
Kevin Love      0.062
Ryan Anderson      0.034
Andrew Bynum      0.023
Marc Gasol      0.021
Marcin Gortat      0.020
Kevin Durant      0.013
Derrick Rose      0.005

[|)e8*]

tony parker

[NovU]

Hot damn. Kevin Love with a decent sidekick would earn him a real place in MVP talk. Let's hope he will get one next season.

My argument for Paul isn't just stats. If it was, LeBron would be my pick. MVP's tend to come from teams who improve, and Paul alone is the reason for the Clippers going from bad to good.

I figure his case is similar, but better than 04-05 Nash. They sucked last year - were a .390% team, and then they trade half their rotation (including their third best player in Eric Gordon) and now they're at .617% and could win the division. His metrics aren't too far off LeBron's, and with Miami continuing to underwhelm (they're better than the Clips, the D-Wade, Chris Bosh and company are a better supporting cast than Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan and a bunch of scrubs), I consider team improvement to be a factor in this case. His raw stats don't necessarily jump off the page, but Nash (my favorite player) posted 16 ppg, 12 apg and 19 ppg, 11 apg in his MVP years. 19 PPG, 9 APG, 2.5 SPG should be enough to put Paul in the conversation over Kobe at least.

Kobe for MVP is a joke. The Lakers are having their worst season in years, and Andrew Bynum has been better all year. He leads the league in scoring by taking a million shots, but Durant is a close second, and is having a much better season all around.

Agreed. By all means, nothing justifies that he's under Kobe in the MVP race as the official NBA site itself suggests. In my book, he'd be the second in the ranking just behind Lebron. But that's strictly speaking from individual statistical point of view. I also believe his likability has been somewhat affected as well due to the things that went wrong in the process of leaving the Hornets. And not that Kevin Durant is undeserving or anything but media will feed him with extra cookies and milk when voting the MVP. If I am not wrong, he'll be the MVP this season at this pace.

[rise]

I've got Lebron. The Heat are barely a playoff team without him.

[shadowgrin]

I've got Lebron. The Heat are barely a playoff team without him.

Someone wants you to see this... http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2010.html

[Andrew]

Kobe for MVP is a joke. The Lakers are having their worst season in years, and Andrew Bynum has been better all year. He leads the league in scoring by taking a million shots, but Durant is a close second, and is having a much better season all around.

As long as he's one of the best players in the league and the Lakers are a top three team in the conference, I think it's fair enough to include him in the conversation. Having said that, I'd have to agree that he's not a frontrunner for MVP.

[Kenny]

I'd give it to KD myself. When it comes down to it, I think Miami would do fine without LeBron with Wade and Bosh. LeBron's stats are awesome, but I think the situation Durant's in, I think he has the better case. Chris Paul and Kevin Love definitely warrant consideration too, but playing for a non-playoff team will hurt Love, since there's that whole emphasis on winning.

lol@Kobe... we all know how shit the Lakers are doing without him...

[NovU]

I don't believe the Lakers are better off without Kobe Bryant as there virtually is nobody to replace him at his position. But a case can be made as other more efficient players can benefit from having more usage. Kobe is nearly an average player this season and doesn't deserve to be in the discussion otherwise for his run at scoring title imo.

I think Miami would do fine without LeBron with Wade and Bosh.

I think so too. But that still should not negate what he has done on the court this season. Besides, Wade was injured for so many games and Bosh also missed some games as well this season.

[Martti.]

Love? It's not Live 06.

[NovU]

Didn't know the Spurs would be able to take over the conference this fast. Still counting on OKC to be on the top when the season is over though. But in any case the Thunder fail to win the conference, it'll hurt greatly on Durant's chance to win the MVP. Because the Heat are resting Wade often these days as the season is nearing the end, and this provides Lebron a chance to put up some monstrous numbers like tonight.