Kobe Bryant's level up skill: DIRK'S FADEAWAY.

[gogadantes]

This is a highlight mix from a game he played in the Drew League recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3mAi9gv ... r_embedded

Holy Shit.
HE. HAS. DIRK'S. FADEAWAY. NOW. And a real Dream Shake, too, looks like.
This is why he's in the same class as MJ and Magic and Bird. 33 years old and still adding something new to his game after failing the season before? @#$%.

[deihatein]

Wasn't Kobe already has a good fadeaway before?

[Andrew]

Yeah, looks more like the fadeaway he's had for a few years now.

[NovU]

For sure, it's nothing new.

Though I am interested to see how he will adjust his game as his athletism fades away. Last year whatever the reason it was, his game didn't look the same.

[gogadantes]

User avatar dei., I know, right?

Andrew, I'm talking about those one-legged fadeaways he shot a couple a times in that video? I don't think I've seen him do that before. Those are definitely Dirk's fadeaways.

[koberulz]

This one?

It's the wrong leg to be Dirk's, but I don't recall seeing him do that before.

[Andrew]

I guess it's kind of like Dirk's, nothing to get really excited about. Just another variation on a move he already used.

[Mavs4Life]

That is alot like Dirk's, & I'm glad somebody else realized that shot if useful, if you can make it.

[deihatein]

At least Dirk getting some recognition

[rise]

Kobe's been doing that fadeaway for several years. He just changed it up a tiny bit, and the change kind of resembles Dirk's.

It's not like Kobe's reinvented the way he scores or anything, contrary to what the title of this thread suggests.

[NovU]

Kinda looks similar to Dirk's but no biggie. Would be a cool thing if he could add that as one of his go-to moves but still a long shot. This one came against nobody in an exhibition match with probably 0 level of intensity. Level up skill? Too fast.

[gogadantes]

Relax guys, I'm not saying he reinvented the way he scores or the wheel or anything like that. It's just pretty admirable for me that a player 33 years old still adds something new to his arsenal in the off-season (you can tell he practiced those shots, too), and from an opponent whose team beat his in the playoffs, too. Not a lot of players are that dedicated, determined, and humble (at least in learning basketball-wise, we know he ain't humble anywhere else ). In my opinion this is what separates merely great players from the level of MJ, Magic, and Bird.

NovU, being a video-games geek as well as a basketball geek, watching that brought to mind old RPGs for me, where your player characters'd get new skills after they 'level up', hence the name. I didn't realize there's a rule of usage for this random idiom I threw in there
About his last season's performance, I think the reason was because of his injuries, I think he got at least 1 messed up finger, 1 or both knees messed up, and at least 1 of his ankles messed, this one in the playoffs. So his hardware wasn't up to standards that time, which was ironic because he was one of the few Lakers last playoffs who still had his balls on the court, while other perfectly healthy Lakers played (Pau, The 'Killer Bees') like they mentally checked out already.

As someone who really loves basketball and plays it religiously, I'm just amazed at this effort of learning that Kobe did (and make no mistake, that is hands-down Dirk's fadeaway) and want to share it with others. That's all.

[koberulz]

It's not Dirk's fadeaway. Dirk jumps off the other leg.

[gogadantes]

not Dirk's fadeaway? jumps off the wrong/other leg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyiCp4A4 ... CED4802BBE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EWAxe3 ... re=related

Sure.

[shadowgrin]

And a real Dream Shake, too, looks like.

Welcome to 2009?

while other perfectly healthy Lakers played (Pau, The 'Killer Bees') like they mentally checked out already

Give Pau a break. It would mess up your game too if the bitch responsible for destroying your long time relationship is sitting in front row in every game (because she's The G.O.A.T.'s wife).

I think he got at least 1 messed up finger

That's an understatement. His finger is probably fucked up really.
I forgot the exact name of the injury; the muscles in his shooting hand (index finger?) have become so developed/strong that it was able break of the ligaments in his finger resulting in the broken finger. Not that surprising really on how he ended up that way since we know how dedicated and determined Kobe aka The G.O.A.T. is in practice and improving himself through out his career. He trains hard so much that even his anatomy can't keep up.

Holy Shit.
HE. HAS. DIRK'S. FADEAWAY. NOW.

I'm talking about those one-legged fadeaways he shot a couple a times in that video? I don't think I've seen him do that before. Those are definitely Dirk's fadeaways.

In your Kobe video - 0:33, 0:39, and 0:47

*jumps off one foot* (or two like Dirk sometimes does too)
*right knee is out* (can be followed by a leg extension or not as shown in the vid)

*yawn*

Yeah, looks more like the fadeaway he's had for a few years now.

nothing to get really excited about.

Kobe's been doing that fadeaway for several years.

You gents are right...

Check out 0:42, 1:02, and 1:37 (2008 or earlier since he still has his #8 jersey)

phpBB [video]

1:08, 1:42, 1:55, 2:16, 3:09, 4:12, 5:29, 5:41, 6:25, 6:40 (Check out the chilling piani beat)

phpBB [video]

Just because you haven't seen Kobe do that shot and then suddenly you see him do it 3 times in an exhibition game means he 'leveled' up.
I find it absolutely ridiculous that you would even say that Kobe is a copycat of Choke Nowitzki when it's clear that Kobe The G.O.A.T. already has that move in his arsenal since he was still wearing #8 and Nowitzki was still choking.

[Murat]

(2008 or earlier since he still has his #8 jersey)

WHAT? THIS GUY DOESN'T KNOW WHEN DID KOBE SWITCH TO 24!

[gogadantes]

shadowgrin, EVERY SINGLE ONE of the examples you showed are all Kobe's original fadeaway. See, if you look closely the difference between his original fadeaway and Dirk's is mainly the base stance and the other leg.

Let's get technical here
With Dirk's fadeaway he (and Kobe in that Drew league video) intentionally tries to get a WIDE base/stance, a wide distance between his legs and then jumps off ONLY the left one, (with the right one not stepping on the floor for balance at all while he jumps) to create more distance, and then he almost always extends his right leg out to bother the defender even further (Always thought it's a risky move for the left ankle, but it obviously works for Dirk).

Now in both of the videos you showed, take a look at Kobe's stance, it's comparatively narrow like a normal fadeaway, and his right foot steps on the floor in the beginning to provide balance. When a fadeaway shooter's in the air, his right leg might be extended sometimes - look at MJ's fadeaways - but what you need to look at here is the STANCE before the lift-off and the intentional DISTANCE between the legs.
Take a look at all those fadeaways in your videos and then take a look at those fadeaways in the Drew League video, and tell me: do they look different? Then look at the Dirk videos up there and compare THOSE fadeaways with the Drew League ones. Do they look much more similar to each other? Be honest.

If you play as well, try it on the court, it will even feel differently when you imitate it (After last season's playoffs I tried doing that one legged fadeaway in my runs and I think it's more risky on your left ankle, but I guess those guys know what they're doing).
But if you still can't tell the difference I guess we can just agree to disagree.

-About the Dream Shake: yes, I know he already did that since 2009, fairly rarely, but IMO this one just looks closer to the real thing (2 fakes then shot, as opposed to 1 fake like Kobe usually does).

-Give Pau a break? I know about the girlfriend gossip (and that's what it is, gossip), and let me tell you this:
If I pay you millions of dollars to do your job, with 11 other people depending on you, not to mention hundreds more whose livelihood are closely tied to your job, and you're having girl problems, and you (grossly) under-perform, do you think I'd care? Of course not. That's called a job, responsibility, and being an adult. Leave that shit at home. MJ played with frickin stomach flu, Kobe played with that Denver court thing. And this guy got dumped/cheated on?

-Now about the last part of your post: I found a comment in that Drew League video link there that perfectly sums what I think, so I just copy-paste it here:

@LeBronMVPJames352114: Man, if you knew even a bit about basketball you'd know that everybody copies other people's successful moves, your LBJ included. It's not like an exam answer you can just copy-paste, it takes effort and practice to master someone else's move and make it your own. In basketball copying moves is a GOOD thing, that's why people are applauding Kobe here.

That's my thoughts EXACTLY. Read this:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/ ... udy-100604

In that article, Kobe himself said that he stole his moves from other great players. All hard-working ballers do (or try to do) that. MJ himself patterned his game after Dr. J and Connie Hawkins. Magic learned his own skyhook from Kareem. Successfully copying other good moves in basketball isn't bad, it's actually the other way around. It's an accomplishment. Like the guy above said, it ain't like cheating at exams when you were/are a kid.

In no part of my post did I say he was a copycat(?) of Dirk. I'm a huge Lakers fan since Magic's time, I'm a member at silverscreenandroll (that's the LAL fansite), and I'm a huge Kobe fan as well (hence this post) and I think he's G.O.T (Greatest Of Today, GOAT? be realistic man, MJ and Magic and the rest want to have a word with you). But unlike you, I don't need to bring other players down (Choke Nowitski?) to make my sentiment known. I think that's juvenile.
No need to feel insulted(?) because Kobe's hard working enough and humble and willing enough to learn from other good players even as a Future Hall Of Famer. I'm willing to bet that Kobe doesn't (doesn't feel insulted, that is, if you're not clear).

Peace.

[gogadantes]

@badger: what? I didn't write that man, you're mistaking me with shadowgrin there

[Martti.]

I find it easier to shoot fadeaways off one leg from that range then normal jumpers, at least they go in for me more often.

[rise]

For me, I like it better a little bit closer to the rim. I have a crazy fadeaway from like 7-10 feet or something like that, that I can actually hit regularly. Outside of that, I have a hard time even hitting the rim with a fadeaway. My fadeaway looks UGLY though, I'm kind of all over the place and I bring the ball up to my left side and just chuck it up, but yeah it works. I usually fadeaway on one leg, and (like shadowgrin said in his essay) it is quite risky on my ankles.

[Murat]

(2008 or earlier since he still has his #8 jersey)

HEY SHADOWGRIN DOESN'T KNOW WHEN DID KOBE SWITCH HIS NUMBER TO 24!

[rise]

(2008 or earlier since he still has his #8 jersey)

HEY SHADOWGRIN DOESN'T KNOW WHEN DID KOBE SWITCH HIS NUMBER TO 24!

WHY DOES IT MATTER

[shadowgrin]

(2008 or earlier since he still has his #8 jersey)

HEY SHADOWGRIN DOESN'T KNOW WHEN DID KOBE SWITCH HIS NUMBER TO 24!

Doesn't matter. Kobe could be wearing a numberless jersey and he would still take his defenders to school and show other teams how basketball should be played.
The number doesn't matter. Maybe LeBron should have realized that. He can even wear 23 again but he still won't be as clutch as Ruben Patterson, Jason Richardson, or Louis Williams.

With Dirk's fadeaway he (and Kobe in that Drew league video) intentionally tries to get a WIDE base/stance, a wide distance between his legs and then jumps off ONLY the left one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3EWAxe3aPw

And the first fadeaway that Dirk did in the video you linked had him jumping from both feet (same at 1:20). It's not like he exclusively does it on only one leg.
Dirk even said it himself in the video. Jumping off one feet, two feet it doesn't matter to him.

and then he almost always extends his right leg out to bother the defender even further (Always thought it's a risky move for the left ankle, but it obviously works for Dirk)

Always? Watch your own vid that you posted. Not always.

Now in both of the videos you showed, take a look at Kobe's stance, it's comparatively narrow like a normal fadeaway, and his right foot steps on the floor in the beginning to provide balance.

Dirk does occasionally too. Watch your own vid. Even check out 1:05. He jumps off the right leg to step back then jumps with the left immediately.

When a fadeaway shooter's in the air, his right leg might be extended sometimes - look at MJ's fadeaways - but what you need to look at here is the STANCE before the lift-off and the intentional DISTANCE between the legs.

Again, your own vid. There are some shot/s there where Dirk doesn't even extend his right leg and jumped off without the stance that you are referring too.

Take a look at all those fadeaways in your videos and then take a look at those fadeaways in the Drew League video, and tell me: do they look different? Then look at the Dirk videos up there and compare THOSE fadeaways with the Drew League ones. Do they look much more similar to each other? Be honest.

I do find Kobe's recent angle to be similar to Dirk. Kobe leans back a little more now when taking the shot compared to before.

If you play as well, try it on the court, it will even feel differently when you imitate it (After last season's playoffs I tried doing that one legged fadeaway in my runs and I think it's more risky on your left ankle, but I guess those guys know what they're doing).
But if you still can't tell the difference I guess we can just agree to disagree.

They are professionals for a reason.
Your anecdote is different from others anecdotes. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it automatically means that someone copied Dirk when you see them do it.

-About the Dream Shake: yes, I know he already did that since 2009, fairly rarely, but IMO this one just looks closer to the real thing (2 fakes then shot, as opposed to 1 fake like Kobe usually does).

Hakeem said Kobe can do it faster thus the one shake is already enough to catch his defender off guard. It means Kobe is getting older (less faster) so the 2 shakes. Time is catching up to The G.O.A.T. I want to watch him play forever and show the other losers the real way basketball is supposed to be played.

-Give Pau a break? I know about the girlfriend gossip (and that's what it is, gossip), and let me tell you this:
If I pay you millions of dollars to do your job, with 11 other people depending on you, not to mention hundreds more whose livelihood are closely tied to your job, and you're having girl problems, and you (grossly) under-perform, do you think I'd care? Of course not. That's called a job, responsibility, and being an adult. Leave that shit at home. MJ played with frickin stomach flu, Kobe played with that Denver court thing. And this guy got dumped/cheated on?

True about professionalism but let me tell you this: Did Kobe's rape accuser sit in the front row and watched him play? Did the chef that served Jordan bad sushi watch from the front row of that game?
Pau maybe a professional but he is still human.

That's my thoughts EXACTLY. Read this:

Why should I when you don't even watch the vid that you posted.

I'm a huge Lakers fan since Magic's time, I'm a member at silverscreenandroll (that's the LAL fansite), and I'm a huge Kobe fan as well (hence this post) and I think he's G.O.T (Greatest Of Today, GOAT? be realistic man, MJ and Magic and the rest want to have a word with you). But unlike you, I don't need to bring other players down (Choke Nowitski?) to make my sentiment known. I think that's juvenile.

So you're a member, good for you. I don't need to join every club or fansite to show my love for The G.O.A.T. Only bandwagoners do that. Same with the "I'm a fan of [team] since [player]" thing. That means what exactly?

[deihatein]

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[gogadantes]

@shadowgrin: man, you're bordering on comedic now. Let me just save time and sum up your response.
-About our fadeaway debate, this is the only part where you're still making sense. Sure, I agree that Dirk doesn't do that one-legged fadeaway every single time. But that's NOT the point of my argument. My point is that it's one of his legit go-to move, that he uses in the games. And now Kobe has it too. I never said that he uses it every single time. Nobody does every move every single time, Kobe didn't in that video I showed (his first fadeaway was a regular one). I like how you said 'NOT ALWAYS' in dispute whilst quoting a line from my post that clearly said almost always. Yeah, I agree, not always, dude. After all, I said it already

Basically that entire first part of your argument there is this:
You: Dirk doesn't do it every time, sometimes he does a regular fadeaway too.
My response: Sure. I agree. Never said that was my point.

Now to the part when your response stopped making sense:

Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it automatically means that someone copied Dirk when you see them do it.
What do you even mean? Of course it doesn't mean that. Again, In no part did I, or anyone in this page say that before you did. And I'm in no way comparing myself to those PROS, hence: "I guess those guys know what they're doing". Compared to me, that is. Who is so far inferior in basketball abilities. You're basically quoting me in a disputing manner, yet the content of your argument is basically the same direction as the quote.

Did Kobe's rape accuser sit in the front row and watched him play? Did the chef that served Jordan bad sushi watch from the front row of that game?
This is stepping into kids' argument territories here. Let's say I oblige you and then say "Yes, yes they actually did sit in the front row!", no one would have any way of confirming/disputing that claim, so we'd be going back and forth like little kids. Which I am not.
But the fact remains: stomach flu and a rape trial are both far more significant problems, both physical and mental, than getting dumped on/cheated on/whatever, wouldn't you agree? And MJ and Kobe still played (really) well despite those things hanging on their head/body. I doubt that court sitting arrangement is that significant a factor. It's not like Vanessa Bryant's sitting in a phone booth with Pau wearing a neon outfit or something. It's not that distracting. It's a big frickin court. Even if it's as melodramatic as you describe (which I really doubt ), if I were Phil Jax or someone, I'd tell Gasol to look the other damn way. Lots of other pros have vicious hecklers, enemies, mistresses, baby mamas, etc sitting courtside all the time. Compared to the level of the performance drop, with a crapload at stake, that's far too weak an excuse. Never said he's not human, but damn, be a man and suck it up. Everybody's got their own issues (some heavier than yours).

Why should I when you don't even watch the vid that you posted.
This is double kiddie cute. Pulling that statement out your...hat about me not watching the vid I posted, and then flat out not wanting to see clear evidence that kills your 'copycat' argument. This is when I lost the enthusiasm for a logical sparring, and incidentally, why you won't see another response from me about this particular 'debate'

So you're a member, good for you. I don't need to join every club or fansite to show my love for The G.O.A.T. Only bandwagoners do that. Same with the "I'm a fan of [team] since [player]" thing. That means what exactly?
Your statement is actually contrary to logic. A bandwagoner is a fan who's only on board when his/her team wins/is famous/whatever, so logically they would expend less effort in doing so. Becoming a member of a team's club = more effort. Someone who's a member of a club is by definition a more hard-core fan than a bandwagoner, because they take the trouble/hassle of becoming a member of a club for that team. My previous comment in this part is meant to convey that I'm a big fan of the Lakers (but I don't need to bring down other players for no reason to show that, as I think that's juvenile). That's what it means EXACTLY.

Sigh...I hate the lockout. For depriving me of any other NBA related activity to kill time that's worthier than this kind of um...stuff .