Let's refresh:
We're considering only 1977-78 forward. The best seven year stint of that player, in other words the "prime" of their career.
Should note, that you are not required to name the seven years for the player, it is merely a guideline to focus thoughts on the player at his best and to ignore things like Qballer's post.
And should also note that in instances regarding injuries, yes, go the extra year. For example, Grant Hill only plays SEVEN FULL SEASONS from 1995-2005 despite it being ten years. Also even if they play, like David Robinson in 1996-97, for a few games, you can skip over/include that season. If a player does something like play 17 games in one season and 55 games in another plus six full seasons, you can include both shortened seasons even if it's eight total seasons/years. It's not really fair to enforce seven calender years on the players.
Some ideas of how to do it:
List 1-10 with comments why for each player.
Or:
List 1-5 with comments for each player, and five honorable mentions with a brief comment on those as whole.
And/Or:
Rank the five best offensive players and five best defensive players. Or just with your top ten/five list the top offensive player and top defensive player.
Really no set format, there are plenty of ways of doing it.
The following players should be considered PF's:
Lamar Odom
Kevin Garnett
Larry Nance
Dennis Rodman
Larry Johnson
Tom Chambers
Bobby Jones
Anthony Mason
Tim Duncan
Pau Gasol
The following players should not:
Larry Bird
Dominique Wilkins
Clifford Robinson
Marcus Camby
Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
113 posts
• Page 1 of 5 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by benji on Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:42 pm
Last edited by benji on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by [Q] on Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:47 pm
this should be an interesting one. i can see Malone, Duncan, Barkley, & Garnett making everyone's lists, but the other spots could be completely different for everyone.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Andrew on Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:57 pm
1. Tim Duncan
Karl Malone was the standard for so long (in the three point era if nothing else), but it has to be Duncan. He averaged over 20 and 11 his first eight years in the league (1998-2005, which included a couple of seasons where he played less than 70 games and the lockout shortened 1999 season), winning three of his four titles during that span including that near quadruple double in the 2003 Finals, is as fundamentally sound as anyone who's ever played the game and brilliant at both ends of the court; at one end, dependable post moves and respectable range on his jumpshot, at the other simply superb all around defense.
If we were to subscribe to the idea that players of a certain position must be this or that, then Tim Duncan is what a power forward should be. I'll be a little less black and white about the matter and say that if you're building your team around a star power forward, you're going to want him to be like Tim Duncan.
2. Karl Malone
Or Karl Malone. The Mailman ranks second on my list these days but he's still a great choice for the prototypical power forward. He could flat out score the basketball, was good for a double double (or close enough to it) for over a decade, with his prime probably being 1989-1995, though it's possibly a toss-up with 1991-1997. One of the league's true iron men who could bully opponents in the paint and punish them from midrange, I'd have to rank him lower than Duncan defensively and he wasn't quite as dependable as a clutch performer. No way I can rank him any lower than second though.
3. Kevin Garnett
This was a tough choice as I felt this spot should be Charles Barkley's and he'd be something of a sentimental choice since he's one of the players I grew up watching. However, KG is the superior defender and a multi-talented player who was right up there with Tim Duncan for the better part of a decade or so. From 2001-2007 he put up some fantastic numbers to the tune of around 22 and 13 and while his Timberwolves teams had their shortcomings, he was one of the top two or three power forwards in the league during that span. I've got to give him the third spot.
4. Charles Barkley
With KG getting the third spot, Sir Charles makes the list at number four. Defensively, I'd rate him lower than Duncan and Garnett and probably more favourably with Malone, but his rebounding numbers were phenomenal for a player his height. Only once in his career did he fail to average double digits in rebounds and that was his rookie year, when he played less than 30 minutes a game and came off the bench for 22 games (per 36, his rebounding average only drops to single digits in 1991, at 9.8 per game). He was also pretty well rounded for his position at the offensive end, being able to knock down a decent number of threes and midrange shots while doing damage down low and of course on the offensive glass. 1987-1993 was probably the best seven years span of his career.
5. Dirk Nowitzki
Considering the favourable comparisons with Larry Bird, I don't think it's out of place to rank him in the top five. Deceptively one of the best low post scorers in the league while at the same time having more range than anyone else on the list, he's truly an outstanding offensive player and incredible shooter...and probably a better defender than he's usually given credit for (though not at the level of a Duncan or KG). Despite the stereotype of disappearing in the clutch, he lacks numerous examples of underperforming in key games, important series and crucial fourth quarters that could be cited for other players with a reputation (deserving or not) of disappearing in crunch time. The 2011 Finals have probably finally dispelled that myth for most people.
His 2011 season could probably be considered one of the best of his career, in which case I'd choose 2001-2006 as the other six seasons. It's kind of hard to choose for Nowitzki as looking back, he's been impressively consistent through his career right up to and including last season.
6. Kevin McHale
McHale's career numbers, while still outstanding, aren't quite as gaudy as some of the other players on the list. He never averaged double digits in rebounds (well, he came close enough in 1987 with 9.9) but then he did play with Larry Bird who was putting up amazing numbers. He shot the ball extremely well though connecting on 55% of his attempts throughout his career, twice topping the 60% mark and only once shooting below 50%. He didn't have the range of some of the others in the top ten but he had a tremendous post game with fantastic footwork and a wide assortment of moves. And he did it all playing most of his career off the bench, though admittedly he was a frequent starter for much of his prime (1984-1990).
7. Pau Gasol
Hard to rank Gasol any lower than this. Great scorer with good hands and offensive instincts, a solid rebounder (though his numbers aren't eye-popping given his size), somewhat of an underrated defender at times. Solid in the post and out to midrange, good ballhandling and passing for a big, fairly steady at the line and shoots a good percentage. I don't think he's as soft as he's sometimes painted as being but he does seem to lack assertiveness at times. Nevertheless he belongs in the top ten (can't believe I forgot about him the first time around
). A bit difficult to pin down the best seven years of his career to date but I'll go with 2004-2010.
8. Chris Webber
C-Webb's career was dogged by the timeout debacle at Michigan, along with an assortment of injuries and disappointment in the Playoffs and it pretty much fizzled out after his retirement in 2008 following nine ordinary games with the Warriors. However, he was a very talented player who was a 20-10 player for the six of the seven seasons spanning 1997-2003 (9.5 rebounds per game in the other year). You could possibly through his 2005 season in there as well, where he was again averaging 21 and close to 10 boards before the trade to Philadelphia.
I'd say he represented a bit of evolution at the power forward position that players like KG and Dirk ultimately took a little further and did better; he had a "traditional" offensive game for a big man but also had range on his jumpshot, being a decent three point shooter early on in his career. He was also part of a wave of power forwards who were a bit too big and not quite skilled enough with the ball to be point forwards, but still had very good ballhandling and passing skills for their position.
9. Dennis Rodman
Charles Barkley's rebounding numbers were phenomenal. Dennis Rodman's were off the charts. Per 36, he never averaged fewer than 10.3 boards per game. He collected seven consecutive rebounding titles and posted back-to-back seasons of 18 plus rebounds per game, all while being listed generously at 6'8" and battling much bigger players. A pesky defender with good instincts, his skill as a player was all too often overshadowed by his off-court antics later in his career, so it's great to see him finally inducted into the Hall of Fame. He also wasn't too bad offensively; he didn't really have a jumpshot (the odd three or midrange shot he'd bank in aside) or a plethora of offensive moves but his focus on defense and rebounding made him an unselfish passer and netted him many garbage baskets over the years. His run of rebounding titles from 1992-1998 were probably his best seasons, though he posted better scoring numbers earlier in his career with the Pistons.
10. Shawn Kemp
What could have been...Kemp should've been a star in the league much longer but as recently mentioned elsewhere, the lockout of 1998/1999 really did a number on his career as his weight ballooned, a few person problems intensified and he found himself struggling to lead lousy Cavs teams then riding the bench in Portland before a semi-respectable final season with the Magic. He had some great years in the mid 90s though, not too far under being a 20-10 player from 1992-1998 (and pretty much there Per 36; he never played more than 35 minutes per game) and was pretty versatile at his position. Kind of similar to Webber but a bit more turnover prone. He was spectacular in the 1996 Finals, too.
Honourable Mentions: Amar'e Stoudemire, Elton Brand, Larry Johnson, Larry Nance, Vin Baker, Charles Oakley, Buck Williams, Lamar Odom, Derrick Coleman, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Tom Chambers, Antoine Walker.
Karl Malone was the standard for so long (in the three point era if nothing else), but it has to be Duncan. He averaged over 20 and 11 his first eight years in the league (1998-2005, which included a couple of seasons where he played less than 70 games and the lockout shortened 1999 season), winning three of his four titles during that span including that near quadruple double in the 2003 Finals, is as fundamentally sound as anyone who's ever played the game and brilliant at both ends of the court; at one end, dependable post moves and respectable range on his jumpshot, at the other simply superb all around defense.
If we were to subscribe to the idea that players of a certain position must be this or that, then Tim Duncan is what a power forward should be. I'll be a little less black and white about the matter and say that if you're building your team around a star power forward, you're going to want him to be like Tim Duncan.
2. Karl Malone
Or Karl Malone. The Mailman ranks second on my list these days but he's still a great choice for the prototypical power forward. He could flat out score the basketball, was good for a double double (or close enough to it) for over a decade, with his prime probably being 1989-1995, though it's possibly a toss-up with 1991-1997. One of the league's true iron men who could bully opponents in the paint and punish them from midrange, I'd have to rank him lower than Duncan defensively and he wasn't quite as dependable as a clutch performer. No way I can rank him any lower than second though.
3. Kevin Garnett
This was a tough choice as I felt this spot should be Charles Barkley's and he'd be something of a sentimental choice since he's one of the players I grew up watching. However, KG is the superior defender and a multi-talented player who was right up there with Tim Duncan for the better part of a decade or so. From 2001-2007 he put up some fantastic numbers to the tune of around 22 and 13 and while his Timberwolves teams had their shortcomings, he was one of the top two or three power forwards in the league during that span. I've got to give him the third spot.
4. Charles Barkley
With KG getting the third spot, Sir Charles makes the list at number four. Defensively, I'd rate him lower than Duncan and Garnett and probably more favourably with Malone, but his rebounding numbers were phenomenal for a player his height. Only once in his career did he fail to average double digits in rebounds and that was his rookie year, when he played less than 30 minutes a game and came off the bench for 22 games (per 36, his rebounding average only drops to single digits in 1991, at 9.8 per game). He was also pretty well rounded for his position at the offensive end, being able to knock down a decent number of threes and midrange shots while doing damage down low and of course on the offensive glass. 1987-1993 was probably the best seven years span of his career.
5. Dirk Nowitzki
Considering the favourable comparisons with Larry Bird, I don't think it's out of place to rank him in the top five. Deceptively one of the best low post scorers in the league while at the same time having more range than anyone else on the list, he's truly an outstanding offensive player and incredible shooter...and probably a better defender than he's usually given credit for (though not at the level of a Duncan or KG). Despite the stereotype of disappearing in the clutch, he lacks numerous examples of underperforming in key games, important series and crucial fourth quarters that could be cited for other players with a reputation (deserving or not) of disappearing in crunch time. The 2011 Finals have probably finally dispelled that myth for most people.
His 2011 season could probably be considered one of the best of his career, in which case I'd choose 2001-2006 as the other six seasons. It's kind of hard to choose for Nowitzki as looking back, he's been impressively consistent through his career right up to and including last season.
6. Kevin McHale
McHale's career numbers, while still outstanding, aren't quite as gaudy as some of the other players on the list. He never averaged double digits in rebounds (well, he came close enough in 1987 with 9.9) but then he did play with Larry Bird who was putting up amazing numbers. He shot the ball extremely well though connecting on 55% of his attempts throughout his career, twice topping the 60% mark and only once shooting below 50%. He didn't have the range of some of the others in the top ten but he had a tremendous post game with fantastic footwork and a wide assortment of moves. And he did it all playing most of his career off the bench, though admittedly he was a frequent starter for much of his prime (1984-1990).
7. Pau Gasol
Hard to rank Gasol any lower than this. Great scorer with good hands and offensive instincts, a solid rebounder (though his numbers aren't eye-popping given his size), somewhat of an underrated defender at times. Solid in the post and out to midrange, good ballhandling and passing for a big, fairly steady at the line and shoots a good percentage. I don't think he's as soft as he's sometimes painted as being but he does seem to lack assertiveness at times. Nevertheless he belongs in the top ten (can't believe I forgot about him the first time around
). A bit difficult to pin down the best seven years of his career to date but I'll go with 2004-2010.8. Chris Webber
C-Webb's career was dogged by the timeout debacle at Michigan, along with an assortment of injuries and disappointment in the Playoffs and it pretty much fizzled out after his retirement in 2008 following nine ordinary games with the Warriors. However, he was a very talented player who was a 20-10 player for the six of the seven seasons spanning 1997-2003 (9.5 rebounds per game in the other year). You could possibly through his 2005 season in there as well, where he was again averaging 21 and close to 10 boards before the trade to Philadelphia.
I'd say he represented a bit of evolution at the power forward position that players like KG and Dirk ultimately took a little further and did better; he had a "traditional" offensive game for a big man but also had range on his jumpshot, being a decent three point shooter early on in his career. He was also part of a wave of power forwards who were a bit too big and not quite skilled enough with the ball to be point forwards, but still had very good ballhandling and passing skills for their position.
9. Dennis Rodman
Charles Barkley's rebounding numbers were phenomenal. Dennis Rodman's were off the charts. Per 36, he never averaged fewer than 10.3 boards per game. He collected seven consecutive rebounding titles and posted back-to-back seasons of 18 plus rebounds per game, all while being listed generously at 6'8" and battling much bigger players. A pesky defender with good instincts, his skill as a player was all too often overshadowed by his off-court antics later in his career, so it's great to see him finally inducted into the Hall of Fame. He also wasn't too bad offensively; he didn't really have a jumpshot (the odd three or midrange shot he'd bank in aside) or a plethora of offensive moves but his focus on defense and rebounding made him an unselfish passer and netted him many garbage baskets over the years. His run of rebounding titles from 1992-1998 were probably his best seasons, though he posted better scoring numbers earlier in his career with the Pistons.
10. Shawn Kemp
What could have been...Kemp should've been a star in the league much longer but as recently mentioned elsewhere, the lockout of 1998/1999 really did a number on his career as his weight ballooned, a few person problems intensified and he found himself struggling to lead lousy Cavs teams then riding the bench in Portland before a semi-respectable final season with the Magic. He had some great years in the mid 90s though, not too far under being a 20-10 player from 1992-1998 (and pretty much there Per 36; he never played more than 35 minutes per game) and was pretty versatile at his position. Kind of similar to Webber but a bit more turnover prone. He was spectacular in the 1996 Finals, too.
Honourable Mentions: Amar'e Stoudemire, Elton Brand, Larry Johnson, Larry Nance, Vin Baker, Charles Oakley, Buck Williams, Lamar Odom, Derrick Coleman, Kevin Willis, Anthony Mason, Tom Chambers, Antoine Walker.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by dare on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:55 pm
Do you think Brand could rank higher if it werent for his injuries? I'd put Gasol in close 10.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by rise on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:12 pm
Andrew, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Kenp was a center?
Anyway, here's my top ten. I'll put in years and whatever else later.
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Garnett
4. Nowitzki
5. Barkley
6. Rodman
7. Webber
8. McHale
9. Stoudemire
10. Camby (if he is a pf if not, then Oakley)
Anyway, here's my top ten. I'll put in years and whatever else later.
1. Duncan
2. Malone
3. Garnett
4. Nowitzki
5. Barkley
6. Rodman
7. Webber
8. McHale
9. Stoudemire
10. Camby (if he is a pf if not, then Oakley)
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by benji on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:17 pm
Nah, he'll be a center for this.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Andrew on Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:28 pm
dare wrote:Do you think Brand could rank higher if it werent for his injuries? I'd put Gasol in close 10.
I forgot about Gasol, Amar'e too. I'll be redoing my list.
z02 wrote:Andrew, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Kenp was a center?
Power forward for most his career and the era I'm referring to. He did transition to centre later in his career, when he wasn't so mobile.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by The X on Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:16 pm
z02 wrote:Andrew, correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought Kenp was a center?
If Kemp was a centre we wouldn't have had the Jim McIlvaine contract in Seattle & maybe, just maybe Kemp wouldn't have ballooned & the Sonics wouldn't have imploded. Big maybes though.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by NovU on Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:23 pm
I am thinking top 5 PFs can be listed in any order and each one still would present to be a strong case. But considering how Duncan had it done several times to win it all as a main guy on the team, I am guessing he's going to top the list of many folks here.
But Pete Chilcutt and Reef Rahim still on top of my list.
But Pete Chilcutt and Reef Rahim still on top of my list.
Enjoy! <3 Jao
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Mavs4Life on Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:55 pm
Honorable Mentions:
Charles Oakley
Larry Nance
Tom Chambers
Chris Bosh
Horace Grant
10. Pau Gasol
I was gonna put Gasol at their 9 spot, but I feel like Stoudemire has had a better career than Gasol. It’s tough to choose a prime for Gasol, he’s been a very consistent player. Gasol’s rebounding numbers have improved over time, & I think his prime may have just ended, & that he won’t be able to put up the same type of numbers next season. Hopefully he’ll prove me wrong.
Prime: 05-11
9. Amar’e Stoudemire
I rank Gasol & Stoudemire at the last two spots, because they still have time left in their careers. I find Amar’e very comparable to Chris Webber. Because both have, similar numbers, & both were apart of great teams to not get rings. Stoudemire was also apart of the new age of power forwards that were very comfortable with taking mid-range jump shots. Amar’e is a good scorer & still has much more to do with his career.
Prime: 04, 06- present
8. Chris Webber
In his prime, Webber was a great scorer, rebounder, & leader. He was also one of the best passing big men; sometimes you thought he was a guard. Some may say he doesn’t deserve to be on the list, but he's in the top 10 in my mind
His Prime: 98-03
7. Kevin McHale
Part of the legendary 80s Celtics, McHale was a better scorer than rebounder. He was a very good insider scorer, & was able to average his most pints while Larry Bird was still in his prime. And on a lighter note he's a better rapper than Isaiah Thomas & Magic Johnson combined. I never really got to see McHale play, seeing that when started watching basketball he was a veteran about to retire. Still, he was am amazing PF.
Prime: 84-90
6. Dirk Nowitzki
Well...yeah. The best german to play, best Mav of all-time, that's all
. The main thing is that he stepped up when he had to become the team leader, taking the Mavs to the finals, getting them the best record in the league. I'll admit, he has had some times when he's choked, but who hasn’t? Andrew said everything else I wanted to; except I feel that his prime was when he became the franchise player. Just glad, he got a ring this year & can walk away from the game saying "I'm a champion".
Prime: 04-09, 11
5. Kevin Garnett
An all-star for 14 straight years, 9x 1st Defensive-Team, Garnett was & still is an amazing NBA player. The thing that amazed me with Garnett when he entered the league was his length, how he was lean, but still had power inside the post. He was also apart of the best broken-up 1-2 punch in NBA history . He is also one of the best big men with a mid-range touch. “The Big Ticket” will always be one of my favorite PFs of all-time, & one of my favorite players of all time.
Prime: 01-07
4. Dennis Rodman
One of the greatest rebounders to step on the court, most people remember Dennis Rodman for his hair, but remember at one point it was normal. He’s the best rebounder within any recent time, Dennis Rodman, could arguably be placed above the next guy on my list.
Prime: 91-97
3. Karl Malone
I see Malone & Barkley tied for 2nd place, so Malone isn’t really 3rd just also 2nd. Speaking of second, even though he only got as far as the Finals twice in his career, Karl Malone racked up enough points to rank 2nd all-time, only trailing the great Kareem-Abdul Jabbar. Malone was almost always giving you a double-double & a great finish on a pick & roll.
Prime: 87-93
2. Charles Barkley
I put Barkley above Malone, because of Barkley’s amazing rebounding abilities. Only 6-6, Chuck averaged a double-double for his career. He also was never afraid to go outside & shoot a three, though it’s understandable seeing he’s the height of shooting guard. For his range & rebounding, Charles Barkley deserves 2nd place in this race.
Prime: 86-93
1. Tim Duncan
Duncan’s playoff play is what really gives him the # 1 spot, that & his rebounding. In just his 1st playoff game he scored 32 points & grabbed 10 boards, doing the same in the next game. Duncan knew how to play from the get-go, grabbing huge board on some of the great big-men, making the All-Star team as a rookie, leading the Spurs to all 4 of their championships, Tim Duncan is a 1st-ballot hall of famer, & the best PF of all-time
Charles Oakley
Larry Nance
Tom Chambers
Chris Bosh
Horace Grant
10. Pau Gasol
I was gonna put Gasol at their 9 spot, but I feel like Stoudemire has had a better career than Gasol. It’s tough to choose a prime for Gasol, he’s been a very consistent player. Gasol’s rebounding numbers have improved over time, & I think his prime may have just ended, & that he won’t be able to put up the same type of numbers next season. Hopefully he’ll prove me wrong.
Prime: 05-11
9. Amar’e Stoudemire
I rank Gasol & Stoudemire at the last two spots, because they still have time left in their careers. I find Amar’e very comparable to Chris Webber. Because both have, similar numbers, & both were apart of great teams to not get rings. Stoudemire was also apart of the new age of power forwards that were very comfortable with taking mid-range jump shots. Amar’e is a good scorer & still has much more to do with his career.
Prime: 04, 06- present
8. Chris Webber
In his prime, Webber was a great scorer, rebounder, & leader. He was also one of the best passing big men; sometimes you thought he was a guard. Some may say he doesn’t deserve to be on the list, but he's in the top 10 in my mind
His Prime: 98-03
7. Kevin McHale
Part of the legendary 80s Celtics, McHale was a better scorer than rebounder. He was a very good insider scorer, & was able to average his most pints while Larry Bird was still in his prime. And on a lighter note he's a better rapper than Isaiah Thomas & Magic Johnson combined. I never really got to see McHale play, seeing that when started watching basketball he was a veteran about to retire. Still, he was am amazing PF.
Prime: 84-90
6. Dirk Nowitzki
Well...yeah. The best german to play, best Mav of all-time, that's all
. The main thing is that he stepped up when he had to become the team leader, taking the Mavs to the finals, getting them the best record in the league. I'll admit, he has had some times when he's choked, but who hasn’t? Andrew said everything else I wanted to; except I feel that his prime was when he became the franchise player. Just glad, he got a ring this year & can walk away from the game saying "I'm a champion".Prime: 04-09, 11
5. Kevin Garnett
An all-star for 14 straight years, 9x 1st Defensive-Team, Garnett was & still is an amazing NBA player. The thing that amazed me with Garnett when he entered the league was his length, how he was lean, but still had power inside the post. He was also apart of the best broken-up 1-2 punch in NBA history . He is also one of the best big men with a mid-range touch. “The Big Ticket” will always be one of my favorite PFs of all-time, & one of my favorite players of all time.
Prime: 01-07
4. Dennis Rodman
One of the greatest rebounders to step on the court, most people remember Dennis Rodman for his hair, but remember at one point it was normal. He’s the best rebounder within any recent time, Dennis Rodman, could arguably be placed above the next guy on my list.
Prime: 91-97
3. Karl Malone
I see Malone & Barkley tied for 2nd place, so Malone isn’t really 3rd just also 2nd. Speaking of second, even though he only got as far as the Finals twice in his career, Karl Malone racked up enough points to rank 2nd all-time, only trailing the great Kareem-Abdul Jabbar. Malone was almost always giving you a double-double & a great finish on a pick & roll.
Prime: 87-93
2. Charles Barkley
I put Barkley above Malone, because of Barkley’s amazing rebounding abilities. Only 6-6, Chuck averaged a double-double for his career. He also was never afraid to go outside & shoot a three, though it’s understandable seeing he’s the height of shooting guard. For his range & rebounding, Charles Barkley deserves 2nd place in this race.
Prime: 86-93
1. Tim Duncan
Duncan’s playoff play is what really gives him the # 1 spot, that & his rebounding. In just his 1st playoff game he scored 32 points & grabbed 10 boards, doing the same in the next game. Duncan knew how to play from the get-go, grabbing huge board on some of the great big-men, making the All-Star team as a rookie, leading the Spurs to all 4 of their championships, Tim Duncan is a 1st-ballot hall of famer, & the best PF of all-time
Last edited by Mavs4Life on Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by _Steve_ on Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:15 am
Mavs4Life wrote:fullquote
I' d just move Gasol above Amar'e.
Compared to Amar'e Gasol is the better defender. This is why I put him over Amar'e despite Amar'es great numbers. (The stats Gasol posted during the start of last season were great, so I think he isn't done yet.)
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Mavs4Life on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:11 am
SteveHTOWN wrote:Mavs4Life wrote:fullquote
I'd just move Gasol above Amar'e.
Compared to Amar'e Gasol is the better defender. This is why I put him over Amar'e despite Amar'es great numbers. (The stats Gasol posted during the start of last season were great, so I think he isn't done yet.)
True, I did have Amar'e at the 10th spot, then I switched them. I feel it could really go either way.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by NovU on Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:31 am
I'm more with Andrew's list especially with top 5. Rodman's the type of player that can contribute to a winning team but not as a main guy as opposed to Andrew's top 5 guys.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Rip32 on Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:34 pm
Honorable Mention
Chris Webber - Top 150 all-time, one knee injury in 2003 away from possibly a title and entirely different resume.
Kevin McHale - Great 6th man, great winner and greatest post scorer in terms of creativity of post moves.
Dennis Rodman - Best rebounding PF of all time, great defensive player early in his career. Vital to Bad Boy's success.
5. Dirk Nowitzki
- Best shooter and European player of all-time. I respect the fact that Dirk has overcame so much crap in his career. He started off as a skinny player would didn't like contact, he became an MVP, was humiliated in the first round (why does he get knocked for that, but we'll never hear about Duncan's team shitting the bed this year?) and now he came out at the apex. He's just so well-rounded, and he's still improving his game 10 years into his career as well.
4. Kevin Garnett
- Still under-appreciated. I know, that doesn't seem true, but people forget about how superb he was in Minnesota. His numbers there were spectacular, he was the best scorer, rebounder and defender at different points in his career. Up until this year, he's aged rather gracefully, finding a way to mold his game after losing the explosive athleticism he had in the early-2000s. His 2008 title locks up his top-5 status.
3. Karl Malone
- The NBA's ALMOST leading scorer. I've never been a fan, but he can't be denied as one of the best offensive front court players ever. He couldn't get it done on the biggest stage, but every other stage was his. Had he been able to beat Jordan once, I think we could argue him being No. 1 a little more. Not that I knock him down for playing with John Stockton, but he went ring chasing, which I don't really like (however, so did my No. 2).
2. Charles Barkley
- Undersized, but powerful. From a rebounding standpoint, he might have been the best in this top-5. His offense evolved so much over his career, going from a fast break dunker to a lethal scorer from the three-point line and in. Unlike Karl Malone, he didn't gack his Finals' loss to Jordan, but his team's always struggled to get out of the East/West playoffs, so that has to hurt, but not as much as it hurt Malone who played with another HoF'r during their prime.
1. Tim Duncan
- Great scorer, greater defender. He's been the top dog on each of his title teams, and is one of the few big men to come into the NBA and step in as an elite player as rookie. Outside those bad commercials he made with Grant Hill in the 2000s, he's never been a huge figure for fans, but his play more than makes up for it. Best though is somehow he's never won a DPoY, how has this never happened?
Chris Webber - Top 150 all-time, one knee injury in 2003 away from possibly a title and entirely different resume.
Kevin McHale - Great 6th man, great winner and greatest post scorer in terms of creativity of post moves.
Dennis Rodman - Best rebounding PF of all time, great defensive player early in his career. Vital to Bad Boy's success.
5. Dirk Nowitzki
- Best shooter and European player of all-time. I respect the fact that Dirk has overcame so much crap in his career. He started off as a skinny player would didn't like contact, he became an MVP, was humiliated in the first round (why does he get knocked for that, but we'll never hear about Duncan's team shitting the bed this year?) and now he came out at the apex. He's just so well-rounded, and he's still improving his game 10 years into his career as well.
4. Kevin Garnett
- Still under-appreciated. I know, that doesn't seem true, but people forget about how superb he was in Minnesota. His numbers there were spectacular, he was the best scorer, rebounder and defender at different points in his career. Up until this year, he's aged rather gracefully, finding a way to mold his game after losing the explosive athleticism he had in the early-2000s. His 2008 title locks up his top-5 status.
3. Karl Malone
- The NBA's ALMOST leading scorer. I've never been a fan, but he can't be denied as one of the best offensive front court players ever. He couldn't get it done on the biggest stage, but every other stage was his. Had he been able to beat Jordan once, I think we could argue him being No. 1 a little more. Not that I knock him down for playing with John Stockton, but he went ring chasing, which I don't really like (however, so did my No. 2).
2. Charles Barkley
- Undersized, but powerful. From a rebounding standpoint, he might have been the best in this top-5. His offense evolved so much over his career, going from a fast break dunker to a lethal scorer from the three-point line and in. Unlike Karl Malone, he didn't gack his Finals' loss to Jordan, but his team's always struggled to get out of the East/West playoffs, so that has to hurt, but not as much as it hurt Malone who played with another HoF'r during their prime.
1. Tim Duncan
- Great scorer, greater defender. He's been the top dog on each of his title teams, and is one of the few big men to come into the NBA and step in as an elite player as rookie. Outside those bad commercials he made with Grant Hill in the 2000s, he's never been a huge figure for fans, but his play more than makes up for it. Best though is somehow he's never won a DPoY, how has this never happened?
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by shadowgrin on Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:56 pm
Rip32 wrote:5. Dirk Nowitzki
- Best shooter and European player of all-time. I respect the fact that Dirk has overcame so much crap in his career. He started off as a skinny player would didn't like contact, he became an MVP, was humiliated in the first round (why does he get knocked for that, but we'll never hear about Duncan's team shitting the bed this year?) and now he came out at the apex. He's just so well-rounded, and he's still improving his game 10 years into his career as well.
Because a 34-year old third option whose 1st seed team was eliminated in the 1st round is different from a 28-year old MVP whose 1st seed team was also eliminated in the 1st round?
Rip32 wrote: Best though is somehow he's never won a DPoY, how has this never happened?
One of the great travesties in the NBA.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by The X on Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:09 pm
I'm surprised nobody has squeaked Larry Nance into their top 10
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Mavs4Life on Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:47 am
Rip32, even I agree with shadowgrin. Duncan was a veteran when the Spurs got knocked out this year. Dirk was in his prime. (and he won MVP last year) That year sucked...
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by shadowgrin on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:48 am
The Mavs were just unfortunate that year. They had to face a team that had lots of players that was capable of abusing their defense.
The Mavs had trouble guarding slashers, as Wade had exploited them the year before. Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels - too slow against Wade. Devin Harris, Terry - too weak against Wade. Armstrong, Christie, Stackhouse - old. That was just against a single slasher like Wade. The Mavs defense against penetration was so weak that even Antoine Walker was driving to the basket during the Finals. That, coupled with the referees
GSW had loads of players that can drive inside - Ellis, B-Diddy, J-Rich, Pietrus, Barnes, S-Jax. Add Don Nelson's 'relentless' offense and his familiarity with the Mavs' plays, the Mavs were definitely in trouble with that match up against the Warriors (in hindsight).
The Mavs had trouble guarding slashers, as Wade had exploited them the year before. Josh Howard, Marquis Daniels - too slow against Wade. Devin Harris, Terry - too weak against Wade. Armstrong, Christie, Stackhouse - old. That was just against a single slasher like Wade. The Mavs defense against penetration was so weak that even Antoine Walker was driving to the basket during the Finals. That, coupled with the referees
GSW had loads of players that can drive inside - Ellis, B-Diddy, J-Rich, Pietrus, Barnes, S-Jax. Add Don Nelson's 'relentless' offense and his familiarity with the Mavs' plays, the Mavs were definitely in trouble with that match up against the Warriors (in hindsight).
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Mavs4Life on Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:45 am
Exactly, if Stackhouse was younger, he might of been able to guard Wade. That feeling of having the 1 seed is like, well we're sure to move on. Looking back on it though, we were worse than GS I actually don't think 06' was rigged even back in 06'. If we could've ended Game 3 the right way, we would've won the series. Dirk can put it all behind him now though.
I actually don't think 06' was rigged even back in 06'. If we could've ended Game 3 the right way, we would've won the series. Dirk can put it all behind him now though.-
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Andrew on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:38 am
The X wrote:I'm surprised nobody has squeaked Larry Nance into their top 10
I have a feeling that since Ben made a point of mentioning him in the first post, he'll be making the list. Perhaps I'm reading too much into that, though.
I definitely considered him, he was on the edge of the top ten in my honourable mentions.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Rip32 on Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:43 am
Mavs4Life wrote:Rip32, even I agree with shadowgrin. Duncan was a veteran when the Spurs got knocked out this year. Dirk was in his prime. (and he won MVP last year) That year sucked...
Should arguably the greatest player at his position EVER lose in the first round as the No. 1 seed? Helllllll no, especially when he has a top-10 (injured, I know) teammate. I know he isn't super star Duncan anymore, but he's not Orlando Magic version Patrick Ewing either. Duncan is still good, and he was absolutely dominated by Zach Randolph. The whole point of this past season was that Duncan got to rest throughout the year and have that extra boost in the playoffs. It flopped, just like he and the Spurs did. At the same age and with almost-equal mileage on him, Karl Malone was much better and didn't get bounced (with a worse team) at the same age.
I'm just saying, losing as the by-far best team in the regular season in the playoffs is an embarrassment and should be noted. He was the best player in the playoffs due to Ginobili's injury, too.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by NovU on Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:06 pm
Makes sense although TD's prime was way back. Nonetheless it was disappointing for some. N u still have him topping ur list.
Enjoy! <3 Jao
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Mavs4Life on Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:04 pm
"but we'll never hear about Duncan's team shitting the bed this year"
"u still have him topping ur list"
But,like you said. Malone (& I feel Barkley) can both put up good arguments for 1st place.
"u still have him topping ur list"
But,like you said. Malone (& I feel Barkley) can both put up good arguments for 1st place.-
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by Rip32 on Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:20 pm
NovU wrote:Makes sense although TD's prime was way back. Nonetheless it was disappointing for some. N u still have him topping ur list.
I do, but I feel like four titles still keeps him ahead of Malone and Barkley.
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Re: Greatest Of The Three Point Era: Power Forward
by shadowgrin on Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:16 pm
Rip32 wrote:Should arguably the greatest player at his position EVER lose in the first round as the No. 1 seed? Helllllll no, especially when he has a top-10 (injured, I know) teammate. I know he isn't super star Duncan anymore, but he's not Orlando Magic version Patrick Ewing either. Duncan is still good, and he was absolutely dominated by Zach Randolph. The whole point of this past season was that Duncan got to rest throughout the year and have that extra boost in the playoffs. It flopped, just like he and the Spurs did. At the same age and with almost-equal mileage on him, Karl Malone was much better and didn't get bounced (with a worse team) at the same age.
I'm just saying, losing as the by-far best team in the regular season in the playoffs is an embarrassment and should be noted.
It's not noted and no one wants to. It's a perk of being the best in your position, people can and will readily dismiss the eventual failures late in your career. The best SG in history didn't play 2 season with the Wizards, Kobe has been a Laker all his life. The best PG didn't come out of retirement 4 years and 50 lbs. later after his first retirement.
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