X's T'wolves (NBA 2K11)

[Houndy]

Will's stock will rise. Just wait.

[kibaxx7]

Trichet will be a lottery pick, I hope

[The X]

Thanks for your feedback guys. I did the draft last night in the game so it was before all of your comments. Will take some time to prep it all for draft but I'd like to think I have it up before next weekend.

Will suck if Dirk is traded from Dallas On another note, you should trade a scrub for a second round pick and get Big Warren!

If that doesn't happen, mabe Blazers will pick him and Wilt and Warren will be the new Muggsy and Manute.

I got Dirk's rating wrong, it's actually dropped to 80 The Mavs haven't been offering him in deals with they have in a couple of Trade Finder trade options.

If the latter happens then I might have to get Barea & Yao traded to Blazers so Warren can back up Yao & you can back up Barea (rather than the other way around )

I say take Warren if he's still around and you can trade into the second round without giving up much, but doubt it can happen though.

^^^Will is spam posting!!

Looks like Andrew might've cleared that double post (kudos to him, saves me the cleanup troubles ).

As for Warren, as I said above, I had already completed the draft before everybody's comments so we'll just have to wait and see what happens. He's an intriguing prospect if he's a 2nd Round pick, but wouldn't want to be locked in with him under first round contract I don't think.

Great coverage. Looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.

A lot of factors played out and some didn't. As always, there will be some that like what I did on draft day and some that probably won't.


And to anybody wondering, the Beasley trade was legit. He was signed, sealed and delivered in the game until Prince refused to waive his no trade clause. Just wanted to let people know that it wasn't fabricated.

Will's stock will rise. Just wait.

Unlikely. All NLSC-ers start with roughly same rating (65 give or take) & the same potential rating (75 give or take). What they do with it is up to them & of course involves some luck. I'm going to try & stay clear from each NLSC-ers' path & let them develop as they would, as will be further indicated with the 2 NLSC-ers on my roster, whom I took to make sure they wouldn't go undrafted (they cost me Darko).

Trichet will be a lottery pick, I hope

As mentioned previously, this draft class is weak. The NLSC-ers last year have similar ratings to this year, but instead of going in the 15-40 range in a deep draft like last year, they're all ranked in the 5 to 15 range. Just goes to show you that there was higher value in late 1st Round/early 2nd Round last year as mid-1st Round this year



Final note, I seem to be above 15 players under contract (as will all remember I had like about 13 players under contract prior to draft, in which I've got three lottery selections which will be either draftees or traded for players. Last season I could assign the excess to D-League but this season I can't. Maybe I assigned the excess prior to getting to more than 15 players under contract. Would be a shame to have to clear roster space to get to 15. Wish I had of thought of this earlier. But I will sort something out.

[Fresh8]

Valor, I am not spam posting. I just take a liking to all the underdogs and also interesting players. Like Chuck Smith

[The X]

Valor, I am not spam posting. I just take a liking to all the underdogs and also interesting players. Like Chuck Smith

I think Chuck Smith will be starting SG for Raptors this season

[Andrew]

Valor, I am not spam posting.

I think he was referring to what I assume was an accidental double post, which I've since cleaned up.

[Fresh8]

Valor, I am not spam posting. I just take a liking to all the underdogs and also interesting players. Like Chuck Smith

I think Chuck Smith will be starting SG for Raptors this season

I hope so.

[Axel The Great]

It's understandable why the Kings take soft players in the draft; they're unmanly purple color suits that well. If they pick me at four, I respectfully demand a color change.

[hova-]

Just curious, is the 2k picture uploading working for you, X? I haven't been able to see my uploaded pics for more than a week now ...

[The X]

Valor, I am not spam posting. I just take a liking to all the underdogs and also interesting players. Like Chuck Smith

I think Chuck Smith will be starting SG for Raptors this season

I hope so.

After each off-season I go through the league and sometimes swap player's primary positions so they get a chance to start. If for example with the Raptors you've got SG's Chuck Smith and Derozan with good ratings & then the starting SF being crappy, I'll maybe change Chuck to his secondary position (SF) and change his primary (SG) to secondary. Just helping the game where it doesn't work itself out

It's understandable why the Kings take soft players in the draft; they're unmanly purple color suits that well. If they pick me at four, I respectfully demand a color change.

Max Power wants it all as a rookie. Get drafted first, prove yourself, then you can talk colour change

Just curious, is the 2k picture uploading working for you, X? I haven't been able to see my uploaded pics for more than a week now ...

Sorry, haven't tried since I've been in off-season & no need for pics. From memory it was taking at least three or four days for my uploaded pics to show up. It sucks & is just plain wrong but it's not a priority to them I guess

[Fresh8]

You could always change Wilt to his natural position... C

[The X]

You could always change Wilt to his natural position... C

Captain Wilt?

[The X]

I read something interesting on my brother-in-law's Insider account prior to the draft on how many teams rank draft prospects for each draft so they don't reach & pick the next Rafael Araujo over Andre Iguodala just because you are desperate for a centre.

Ranking draft prospects by tiers

By Chad Ford
ESPN.com
Archive

Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are the consensus top two picks ... but are they franchise players?

Every time I put up a new mock draft (Mock Draft 5.0 came out Wednesday), I get a lot of feedback from readers who wonder how I put it together and how it differs from the Top 100. This is how it works: Both pieces are reported pieces. In other words, I talk with NBA scouts and executives to get a sense of:

A. Which teams like which players (mock draft).

B. What the consensus is among all 30 NBA teams about who the best players in the draft are (Top 100).

I use the word "consensus" lightly. Often, even GMs and scouts employed by the same team can't agree on rankings of players.

I had a very interesting conversation in Treviso, Italy, last week with a number of NBA executives and scouts about just how subjective this process is, how many backroom fights go on and how, from time to time, teams literally don't make up their minds until they are on the clock. They gave me a lot of funny examples (off the record). The point was that every team does things a little differently, and even within a team, there often isn't much consensus.

Obviously, both the mock draft and Top 100 are imperfect because the draft is an inexact science. NBA teams do more than watch prospects play games. They work out players, give them psychological tests, do background checks and conduct personal interviews. All of this factors into the process and can change opinions.

Factor in the ranking wars with another age-old debate -- do you draft for need or for the best player available? -- and it's no surprise the draft can be so volatile. Many teams take into account holes at certain positions (i.e., the team has no small forward) or coaching/system preferences (i.e., the Knicks draft players who can fit into coach Mike D'Antoni's system) when making their decisions.

To make sense of disparate rankings and debates over team needs, the past few years I've chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams that have been very successful in the draft: what I call a tier system. Instead of developing an exact order from one to 60 of the best players in the draft, these teams group players, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then, the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need.

This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available but also the player who best fits a team's individual needs.

So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, I put together these tiers. (Because the teams do not want to divulge their draft rankings publicly, the teams will remain anonymous.)

Players are listed alphabetically in each tier.

Tier 1

None

Note: This category is usually reserved for guys who are surefire All-Stars/franchise players. Last year, John Wall was the only guy in this tier. In 2009, Blake Griffin was the guy here. This year, Kyrie Irving and Derrick Williams are at the top of the draft, but neither guy is projected as a franchise player or a surefire All-Star.

Tier 2

Kyrie Irving (draft range: 1 to 2)
Derrick Williams (1 to 3)

Note: Irving and Williams are the top two players on the boards of the teams I spoke with, regardless of team needs. Both players are projected to be starters and potential All-Stars. While it looks like Irving has the best shot of going No. 1, there's still an outside chance it could be Williams.

Tier 3

Enes Kanter (2 to 6)
Brandon Knight (3 to 7)
Kawhi Leonard (5 to 9)
Jonas Valanciunas (3 to 8)
Jan Vesely (3 to 10)
Kemba Walker (3 to 9)

Note: This is a larger-than-usual Tier 3, and it says something about how NBA GMs are seeing this draft. They believe the six players above all have NBA All-Star potential, but all six have significant weaknesses that could keep them from living up to it. All six players were consensus top-10 picks. Leonard and Walker barely squeaked into this tier. A number of teams have them in Tier 4. Some teams believe Knight, Kanter and Valanciunas could all end up as Tier 2, or even Tier 1, players over time.

Tier 4

Bismack Biyombo (8 to 20)
Alec Burks (10 to 17)
Jimmer Fredette (7 to 15)
Marcus Morris (9 to 15)
Chris Singleton (10 to 18)
Klay Thompson (9 to 17)
Tristan Thompson (6 to 16)

Note: This is a smaller-than-usual tier, and it was difficult to find a real consensus. Teams are saying that these seven players likely will fill out the rest of the lottery. This is where the real depth of the draft is. Biyombo, Burks, Singleton and both Thompsons each got one or two Tier 5 votes. Since we've listed 15 players, one of these eight likely will slip out of the lottery.

Tier 5

Davis Bertans (17 to 29)
Marshon Brooks (13 to 20)
Kenneth Faried (13 to 21)
Jordan Hamilton (11 to 19)
Tobias Harris (14 to 22)
Tyler Honeycutt (18 to 30)
Reggie Jackson (17 to 31)
Nikola Mirotic (20 to 30)
Darius Morris (21 to 35)
Markieff Morris (13 to 19)
Donatas Motiejunas (12 to 20)
Josh Selby (17 to 28)
Nikola Vucevic (14 to 21)

Note: These players look like locks for the first round but most likely won't make the lottery. A few teams had Brooks, Harris, Markieff Morris and Vucevic in Tier 4 but not quite enough for them to make the cut; they were very close, though. Bertans, Honeycutt, Jackson, Mirotic and Darius Morris were borderline picks here. Every one of these players dropped out of the top 30 on at least one NBA team's draft board.

Tier 6 (All First-Round Bubble)

Bojan Bogdanovic
Jimmy Butler
Norris Cole
Justin Harper
Charles Jenkins
JaJuan Johnson
Malcolm Lee
Travis Leslie
Jon Leuer Shelvin Mack
Chandler Parsons
Kyle Singler
Iman Shumpert
Nolan Smith
Trey Thompkins
Jeremy Tyler
Jordan Williams

Note: This is what I would call the first-round bubble group, and this is where the consensus started to break down. A few teams had Harper, Jenkins and Tyler in Tier 5, but many did not. Overall, there are just two spaces left in the first round ... so most of the players on this list are falling to the second round.

So how does the tier system work?

A team ranks players in each tier according to team need. So, in Tier 4, if point guard is the biggest need, a player like Fredette is ranked No. 1. If shooting guard is the biggest need, Alec Burks or Klay Thompson is ranked No. 1.

The rules are pretty simple. A team always drafts its highest-ranked player in a given tier. Also, a team never takes a player from a lower tier if one from a higher tier is available. So, for example, the Bucks are drafting No. 10 (Tier 4 territory); if Kawhi Leonard (a Tier 3 player) is on the board, they take him regardless of positional need. If the Bucks have Klay Thompson ranked No. 1 in Tier 4, they still take Leonard, even though shooting guard is a more pressing need.

This system protects teams from overreaching based on team need. The Bucks won't pass on a clearly superior player like Leonard to fill a need with Thompson. However, the system also protects a team from passing on a player who fits a need just because he might be ranked one or two spots lower overall.

Last year, I gave you my favorite historical example from the Atlanta Hawks. Because of team positional needs, former GM Billy Knight took Marvin Williams ahead of Chris Paul and Deron Williams in 2005 and Shelden Williams ahead of guards such as Brandon Roy and Rajon Rondo in 2006.

Here's another one: The Raptors selected Rafael Araujo with the eighth pick in the 2004 NBA draft because they needed a center desperately. Most teams had Araujo as a Tier 4 player, but the Raptors selected him in a Tier 2 category because there were no centers available in their tier.

If the Raptors had employed a tier system, they would have ranked inside the tier based on team need and fit rather than just ranking the prospects from 1-30.

In that case, the Raptors likely would have grabbed a player like Andre Iguodala instead.

Like every draft system, the tier system isn't perfect. But the teams that run it have found success with it. The system has allowed them to get help through the draft without overreaching. Compared to traditional top-30 lists or mock drafts, it seems like a much more precise tool of gauging which players a team should draft.

I right start posting tiers on how I see them prior to each draft, although I'll start by posting a subjective one for 2011 draft. I don't think I'll cover all the tiers, just maybe up to tier four.

[dare]

Nice read I think it can really help you pick prospects in the draft but you can't really tell if its the perfect pick because anything can happen

[The X]

Nice read I think it can really help you pick prospects in the draft but you can't really tell if its the perfect pick because anything can happen

Yes, the draft is not an exact science but protects teams from reaching. I think one of his previous tiers for the Bogut draft, he said Atlanta had Marvin Williams, Andrew Bogut, Deron Williams & Chris Paul (in that order) as tier 1 players. They picked on best available per this list & ended up with Williams despite the fact they already were stacked at that position. As Ford said, the Hawks needed a centre (Bogut) or a point guard (Deron Williams since they ranked him higher than Paul) so if they used the tier system they would've ranked the players as follows:

1. Bogut, 2. D.Williams, 3. C.Paul, 4. M.Williams

I remember watching draft & it was the last draft I remember having so many bad picks. I was thinking Hawks should take Chris Paul or Deron Williams, preferably the former. I'm no expert but if a non-expert can see that, then it shouldn't be that hard. Then again it was Billy Knight & he did the same thing the following year by taking Shelden Williams (a need pick although he was probably tier 4 player) over a tier 2 pick like Brandon Roy.

[Fresh8]

I was going to say 'nice article' until I realised it was Chad Ford's halfway through haha

And Wilt will be both Captain and Centre for Blazers!

[The X]

I was going to say 'nice article' until I realised it was Chad Ford's halfway through haha

And Wilt will be both Captain and Centre for Blazers!

Yes, Chad Ford sucks & it's not really his own methodology, just one he got from talking with NBA teams.

[The X]

2012 OFF-SEASON RECAP - NBA DRAFT PROSPECT TIERS (RETROSPECTIVE LOOK AT 2011)


Looking retrospectively at the 2011 NBA Draft, this is how I would have objectively broken down the draft in tiers (see here for tier explanation) for the T-wolves based on scouting reports and pre-draft workouts. I'm not saying I did or would have followed this methodology, but it is what it is.

Tier 1 (Surefire All-Stars/Franchise Players)

SG- Perry Buchanan (UCLA) - drafted #1

Tier 2 (Down-the-road All-Stars/Projected Starters)

SG- Chuck Smith (Oregon State) - drafted #2
PG- Floyd Bradley (Maryland) - drafted #3

Tier 3 (Potential All-Stars/Significant Weaknesses Present)

SG- Ciro Nunez (Argentina) - drafted #4
SF- Jin Lam (China) - drafted #9
SF- Art Burks (Vanderbilt) - drafted #12
PF- Johan Svensson (Sweden) - drafted #6
PG- Mo Bosh (Nebraska) - drafted #7

Tier 4

SG- Dillon Stevens (Miami [FL]) - drafted #8
SG- Leslie Berry (DePaul) - drafted #5
C- Chuck Long (West Virginia) - drafted #17
C- Rudolph Schultz (Kansas State) - drafted #18
C- Jamaal Fordham (Illinois) - drafted #15
SF- Richie Strickland (Baylor) - drafted #11
PF- Dion Baylor (Ole Miss) - drafted #14
PF- Lloyd Murphy (North Carolina) - drafted #23
PF- Rickey Harper (Memphis) - drafted #10
PG- Lambros Washburn (Washington) - drafted #13
PG- William Witt (Portland) - drafted #24

[The X]

So you now all know that I was salivating over Perry Buchanan (he was easily best prospect in draft, rated 81 as rookie & made jump to 88 this off-season, he's gonna be a big star for years to come) & was disappointed not to get the number one pick. Getting the number one & three this year is nice, but I'd be happy to trade both in for a number one pick last year.

Going in to draft I knew there was the big 3 (Perry, Chuck & Floyd - lovin' the all first name basis, like Michael, Magic, Larry, Doctor/Julius, Clyde, Charles) but pre-draft workouts made it clear to me that Buchanan was the stud of the bunch.

Nunez & Svensson were borderline tier 2 guys that slipped into top of tier 3. I wanted Nunez at 6 but 76ers grabbed him at 4. But I was very happy that Svensson fell to me at 6. By the tier system I should've really taken Jim Lam, which in itself would've been a great pick since he had a stellar rookie year. Best case scenario is that he turns out to be a rich man's AK47. I just didn't want to choose a Chinese guy because Sit would've gotten too excited

[The X]

2012 OFF-SEASON RECAP - NBA DRAFT PROSPECT TIERS


Now taking a look at the 2012 NBA Draft, this is how I am objectively breaking down the draft into tiers (see here for tier explanation) for the T-wolves based on scouting reports and pre-draft workouts. I may or may not have used this methodology, but it is what it is.

Tier 1 (Surefire All-Stars/Franchise Players)

N/A

Tier 2 (Down-the-road All-Stars/Projected Starters)

C- Jesse Brown (Arkansas)
SF- Jaime Buford (Vanderbilt)
PF- Franklin Fleming (Colorado)

Tier 3 (Potential All-Stars/Significant Weaknesses Present)

SG- Andrew Andrew (BYU)
PF- Gordon Burks (Penn)

Tier 4

SF- Franklin Murray (Oregon)
SF- Brandon Payton (Penn)
SG- Richard Sharpe (South Carolina)
SG- Willis Lewis (LSU)
PF- Mark McCloud (Arkansas)
PG- Marvin Hale (Miami [OH])
PG- Dwight Woolridge (Kansas)
PG- Christophe Hasselhoff (Germany)
PG- Thierry Trichet (France)
PG- Max Gomez (Texas)

[Fresh8]

Transform your lottery picks into an All-Star? Although, I do feel it's your intention to keep all your picks.

Plus the draft is done anyways. Will be interesting to see what you did!

[The X]

Transform your lottery picks into an All-Star? Although, I do feel it's your intention to keep all your picks.

Plus the draft is done anyways. Will be interesting to see what you did!

Will have to see what happens.

Btw, I moved Andrew Andrew up one tier. He was on fringe & on second thoughts, he's tier 3. And just remember with these tiers, these are my pre-draft expectations & don't factor in post-draft ratings or anything like that.

[The X]

Some terrible news.2k is shutting down their community site, which is going to kill at least a few of the Associations on these boards. As mine is pretty light on pics, I foresee it continue, albeit with the odd crappy mobile phone upload and less pics of the day sadly

[Fresh8]

At least this will continue. That is all that matters!

[The X]

At least this will continue. That is all that matters!

Yep, but now I've got to go & download then upload every pic to say Photobucket. Could cost me a day or two as far as prepping draft. Ahh well, onto it I go.

EDIT: Finally, after a couple of hours I moved all pics over to Photobucket account. They are now free to shut down 2k community site I wasted the time I was going to waste away on the draft recap moving pics across from 2k community site. It probably put me back a day or two in relation to putting the draft up but was a necessary evil.