2011 NBA Finals: Mavs V. Heat, part deux

[hova-]

Jason Terry is not that bad at defense. His career steal % has him at 9th among active players in the league and 1.3 steals per game for his career doesn't sound too shabby either. I also think that he had some sequences against the Thunder were he did a great job staying in front of his man because his lateral quickness is really good.

The only problem is that he is way too small & not strong enough, so it's easy to shoot over him or post him up. But a bad defender? Not really.

[deihatein]

James Harden keep penetrating at him at will everytime Terry is on him. If Terry defends someone that is good at going to the basket they are going to take advantage and that what Harden did.

[hova-]

James Harden played the pick & roll all the time. He barely gets to the rim on isolations. Pick & roll is a different story because it's way tougher to defend once the screener gets you.

[benji]

Don't know about the Heat's p&r defense though.

It's pretty brutal when it locks in. They shrink and move the rest of the defense when the pick and roll is run, overplay the ball handler until he gets rid of the ball and often switch twice. Which they can get away with because Bosh/Haslem/Anthony can all switch (if there's no major low post threat) and LeBron/Wade/Miller can all switch. They can even get away with Chalmers/Bibby switching at times onto bigger non-threats.

Watch the non-ball Heat players, they collapse the triangle and cover areas not players:

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Now their goal against the Bulls was to fully trap Rose to prevent his drives, which they probably won't do against the Mavericks. But that area coverage is big, they try to deny the pass from the ball handler, cover areas and then have to make rotations:

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It's nothing too fancy but when you can switch and have athletic players like LeBron and Wade, even Bosh and Chalmers are quick for their position, you can take a lot more risk that they'll get to the ball in time and make rotations.

Now neither Bosh nor Haslem nor LeBron can shut down Dirk but what they can do much better than Gasol/Bynum, Ibaka/Perkins/Collison is guard him farther out because of the rest of the Heat help D.

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You can't leave any of those guys out there alone with Dirk because he's going to kill them, you can at least leave Bosh/Haslem/LeBron out there to check Dirk for much longer without helping and having to rotate. The Heat also wouldn't rotate like the Lakers did, they would leave one man, the far man to cover both of the other two shooters because they'd then re-rotate if the ball went back to the other side. Gasol/Bynum along with Perkins aren't fast enough to do this. If we replace those guys with Heat players then it's Haslem (Bynum) out there on Dirk, and if LeBron (Kobe) comes to help, then they can leave LeBron out on Dirk, Bosh (Gasol) would have moved to cover the corner shooter while Haslem moves down to check Chandler. Gasol for some reason wants to stay with Chandler more than guard the corner three, Kobe is too uncaring of finding someone to guard and Bynum rightly afraid of Dirk that they wind up with just a switch and a half until Gasol takes his futile run at Pedja.

This defense worked against the Celtics pick and roll and cut off Allen and Pierce on the normal kick outs well enough even if the KG/Rondo pick and roll isn't as good as the Dirk/anyone one. And that was before Spoelstra found out he could play just his best players.

It's part of why the Bulls O fell apart in both of the last two games. Because the Heat were using their Haslem/Bosh/Miller/Wade/LeBron lineup they could swap any player onto almost any other on the far side and could fully trap Rose daring the Bulls to have enough motion in their offense to beat it.

Here's some more rotation using crap players, Miller and Bosh, it of course runs better when it's LeBron/Wade instead of Arroyo/James Jones (who you can see panic and leave the corner three too open):

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Here's James Jones fucking up the rotation again:

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Now that we've discussed Dallas' pick and roll. How are they going to guard the Heat's?

BTW, http://www.mysynergysports.com/synsplas ... synPlayoff (Defensive Impact tab is the one that applies here.)

[The X]

I wanted to take Mavs in 6, but I ended up taking the refs in 6 since they will decide who wins this series

Funnily enough, I wanted the Heat to win in 2006

Blasphemy

I think your reverse jinx is to blame for Jason Terry's dunk/layup/can't decide what he wants to do miss. I blame that one play for the loss of the Finals. I use to like Terry (since his Arizona days as a 6th man behind Mike Bibby) but couldn't after that one play

[hova-]

Definitely tough D. Forcing many turnovers which lead to easy buckets for them at the other rim (especially easy when you have guys like LBJ and D-Wade who will also finish with the contact or avoid it). That's definitely one of their biggest strenghtes. I guess you have to like their line up on defense with almost no mismatches.

But at least during regular season, the Heat did not defend the three point shot very well. They did better against the Bulls though. I think this is very important for Dallas. To get some open looks for Terry, Stojakovic and Kidd.


I haven't seen any Heat game this postseason, so actually I don't know how they run the pick and roll plays. I read that Bosh was going to the paint more often instead of settling for the outside jumper this season. I guess they will run the pick & roll either with Bosh or LBJ? I mean Anthony, Z or Magloire doesn't sound too good at all. Don't know about Haslem though, he got a good jumper.

At first I was like playing zone D could be a good idea like it was vs the Thunder. But then I noticed that the Heat have pretty reliable shooters in Jones, Miller and heck even LeBron in the last two rounds.

[The X]

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[[Q]]

we should post a list of all the people jocking the mavs in the previous threads and those jocking wade & lebron so they can have a flame war
mavs in 7. (possibly in 6, but i'm sticking by my prediction, which would turn out to be a pretty exciting series)

[George7]

Mavs in 6.
Close Dirk and you can be hammered by Peja and Terry in the corner. Kidd and Barea are a great guard couple who can run Miami's defense(exclude LeBron and Wade) nuts. I think also the Mavs are as mature as ever and this is their last chance and of course Dirk's and Kidd's last chance of getting a ring,and I want them to get one....

[benji]

we should post a list of all the people jocking the mavs in the previous threads and those jocking wade & lebron so they can have a flame war
mavs in 7. (possibly in 6, but i'm sticking by my prediction, which would turn out to be a pretty exciting series)

We'd need people who aren't suddenly appearing when their team might win and then disappearing like all the Lakers fans who supported Operation Kobe against Sauru last year. And on a forum with this few people it's really obvious.

I haven't seen any Heat game this postseason, so actually I don't know how they run the pick and roll plays. I read that Bosh was going to the paint more often instead of settling for the outside jumper this season. I guess they will run the pick & roll either with Bosh or LBJ? I mean Anthony, Z or Magloire doesn't sound too good at all. Don't know about Haslem though, he got a good jumper.

If the last few games are any indication you won't be seeing Z or Magloire again.

The Heat do run pick and rolls with Bosh as the screener. Where they have ripped Boston and Chicago apart is they finally started running it with LeBron and Wade instead. And then also setting a double screen.

Either two guys come out to screen on the same play. (Giving Wade or LeBron two options to pick from on the fly.) Or one that all three teams they've beaten had issues with was a high post screen from Bosh/Anthony/Haslem for LeBron to come around to set the screen for Wade. So LeBron's man goes around the first screen and is left way out of position for LeBron's screen for Wade.

On the two-man screen, the big man falls to the basket so you have to watch Wade and LeBron for drives and shots but also keep track of the big for either firing a pass to them. This is part of why Bosh went off, it's this play that got them the late winning basket with Bosh against the Celtics AND the Bulls.

They toyed with it during the season and I have no idea why it took until the Boston series until they ran them regularly. Boston couldn't guard it because they couldn't switch people like Jermaine O'Neal onto LeBron or Wade. Chicago ran into the same problem with Boozer. And these are two of the greatest defenses in the league.

They run the same thing in various ways, especially from the corner as a goal to create jumpers for Bosh when nobody guards him that far out. It was really the most logical thing they could do in the half court and you can go back in threads and find not just me but lots of people suggesting it as blatantly obvious, but they dicked around with it before figuring out that Boston simply could not guard it. And then that the Bulls had no better luck.

2008 Boston, 2004 Pistons and 2004-2007 Spurs MAY have been able to guard this team. Everyone else is shit out of luck. But we're talking about three of the greatest defensive teams of all time then.

And they strangely still don't push the pace even though nobody can guard them in transition and they have the speed to come down and setup these side pick and rolls in transition making them basically impossible to guard. Maybe we should hope they DON'T figure it out though.

At first I was like playing zone D could be a good idea like it was vs the Thunder. But then I noticed that the Heat have pretty reliable shooters in Jones, Miller and heck even LeBron in the last two rounds.

Eddie House, Mike Bibby, and Mario Chalmers as well.

Dallas cannot guard the Heat, they're too weak on the perimeter, but they can do what I said the Bulls had to do (and couldn't), and that is build an early lead and try and hold off the Heat using their streak shooting when the matchups allow for it.

If the Heat manage to close off the Dallas ball movement and pick and roll, Dallas is dead. The Heat will do what they've done all season and that's keep it close and then just drill down over and over using their talent late in the game erasing the lead. It's fucking ugly basketball and the Heat should be running people off the court instead of this crap, but as long as it works they're going to continue doing it. (Even though they're morons for doing it since they could up the pace and wreck everyone.)

[hova-]

Sounds pretty tough if you ask me. If basketball can be calculated, Mavs are in danger. It may depend a lot on Dirk and creating space for others if the double team is required. Don't know if the Heat will find a way to deny him like Collison did very well or just keep living with the fact that he may shoot over his defender over and over again.

I still think it's hard to contain the Mavs' pick & roll properly, but those vids showed that the Heat can defend it well. Maybe Barea can make a difference as his pick & roll play seems a bit unconventional. We'll see.

[benji]

Oh, Dallas can win this they just don't have a wide margin of error. They have to pour on the Heat early because the sheer talent is going to wear you down in the playoffs. It's how the Lakers beat everyone with Shaq and Kobe. It's why the Spurs and Bulls kept winning.

If those shots aren't falling, if Miami mucks up that pick and roll, if they have zero solution for the Heat's pick and roll, that's when they'll get run over no matter what.

It's somewhat similar to Orlando back in 2009. They could have won that series (and they had the best player easily), but the Lakers took their three point shooting away and then it was a done deal with no chance.

You don't even need to deny Dirk if you can close off the rest of the team. I wouldn't be surprised if the Heat do that. Leave Dirk single guarded and see if he can go for 50 every single night.

[Oznogrd]

the heat proved me wrong, but they didnt exactly prove van gundy right either. So hooray for middle ground.

[puttincomputers]

Mavs in 5.

[Abctest123]

I'm really hoping Mavs in 7. Whatever number of games it goes to, I hope Dirk gets his title and revenge.

[Rob Owen]

My NBA 2011 Finals Wallpaper.

[shadowgrin]

Shouldn't Wade be in that wallpaper instead of LeBron since it's rivalry renewed?


I go with Mavs. Mark Cuban's a dick but the lesser of two evils. I also want to see Dirk and the obsolete Matrix win a ring.

The Heat will do what they've done all season and that's keep it close and then just drill down over and over using their talent late in the game erasing the lead. It's fucking ugly basketball and the Heat should be running people off the court instead of this crap, but as long as it works they're going to continue doing it. (Even though they're morons for doing it since they could up the pace and wreck everyone.)

I blame Spoelstra for that.

[rise]

I go with Mavs. Mark Cuban's a dick but the lesser of two evils. I also want to see Dirk and the obsolete Matrix win a ring

yesssss!! I was hoping for a Heat-Mavs Final, and I shall now predict Mavs in six long, hard-fought games. I expect at least three overtime periods and like ten clutch shots from Dirk.

[hova-]

NBA.com is hyping Deshawn Stevenson from the two regular season games where he limited James to bad shooting etc. How I wish that the big three won't crush the Mavs and their solid team defense continues vs the Heat.

[koberulz]

Given that the two teams playing are the only two teams in the league I didn't want to be playing, I really don't much care.

[Mavs4Life]

Mavs-6-or-7-games.Chadler-must-kill-The-Greatess-That-is-Joel-A.

[Sauru]

damn it benji why did you have to dig that old quote up lol


i have said all along if the mavs are hitting they are unbeatable but i have my doubts they can shoot the ball that well for 4 of the next 7 games. as much as i hate to say it i think the heat win in 6. i fully expect to yell at my tv 100 times cause of wade jumping into defenders and getting them called for the foul for some stupid reason cause the nba is retarded like that

[Houndy]

Mavs in 6 fools

[NovU]

Damn. Wise old man sauru. Everything he says so makes sense all the time. Must be all the years he's lived that granted him such wisdom...

I agree with benji that the Heat should go single team on Dirk most of times and beat the rest of team. Haslem(& Anthony) I believe will be the man on that task. If he doesn't get called for silly fouls as it happened in OKC & DAL series, I think what Dirk will do will be somewhat manageable.

[thewhitemamba]

Line up comparison
Starters
Anthony v. Chandler- Anthony is a good shot blocker but has offense while Chandler is a very good off. rebounder and an underrated scorer Advantage: Dallas
Bosh v. Nowitski- Although am a heat fan Bosh is very very soft but dirk has the stroke of a guard and the body of a center Advantage: Dallas
LBJ v. Matrix- Both athletic forwards but i'll give Bron Bron the advantage because he has the skills of a point guard Advantage: Miami
Wade v. Stevenson- Stevenson is a defensive guard but D-wade is way too fast Advantage:Miami
Bibby v. Kidd- Both are veterans but i'll give Kidd the advantage he still is a great and Bibby became from the arc when he joined Miami Advantage: Dallas
Back ups
Chalmers v. Terry- Both great shooters but i'll give Terry the advantage because he has more experince Advantage: Dallas
Miller v. Peja Stojakovic- Both are plagued by injury but are still deadly from the arc but since Mike is an underrated rebounder he has the advantage Advantage: Miami
Haslem v. Haywood- Both are great big men Haslem was plagued by injury in the but had a great post-season Haywood became a backup when they acquired Chandler but is Still a great center but since Haslem has that mid ranged shot i'll give him the advantage Advantage: Miami

Dallas has the advantage in terms of experience and players but with Miami's athleticism and their Big 3 I think this will be a good series with either team winning in 6 games