CHICAGO BULLS, KEEPERS AND KEEP-OUTERS

[air gordon]

I know it's pointless to remain bitter over the Pippen for Roy Rogers and a second round pick trade back in 1999, but it's a fine example of how to trade away a valuable player for virtually nothing in return.

actually it's a poor example

pippen going to houston was a free agent signing as far as i'm concerned. this transaction was classified a sign and trade because reinsdorf was being a classy guy- under the nba rules, the bulls were the team that could give him the highest salary/contract. knowing this, he gave Pippen a fat going away present.

[Matthew]

pippen going to houston was a free agent signing as far as i'm concerned. this transaction was classified a sign and trade because reinsdorf was being a classy guy- under the nba rules, the bulls were the team that could give him the highest salary/contract. knowing this, he gave Pippen a fat going away present.

This is actually true about reinsdorf. It was kruase who was the fat fucking pig who broke up the bulls dynasty the cocksucker.

[Andrew]

I know it's pointless to remain bitter over the Pippen for Roy Rogers and a second round pick trade back in 1999, but it's a fine example of how to trade away a valuable player for virtually nothing in return.

actually it's a poor example

pippen going to houston was a free agent signing as far as i'm concerned. this transaction was classified a sign and trade because reinsdorf was being a classy guy- under the nba rules, the bulls were the team that could give him the highest salary/contract. knowing this, he gave Pippen a fat going away present.

I understand the reason for it, but I still think it's a good example of how to give away a talented player for little in return, simply in the interest of dismantling and rebuilding a team. Considering Houston traded Pippen to Portland the following offseason in exchange for six players, the Bulls probably could have asked for a little more.

I agree that it was a classy move on Reinsdorf's part to give Pip a large contract rather than let him walk (and thus force him to accept a smaller deal). But it's still giving away a great player for practically nothing. Noble or otherwise, the Bulls missed a chance to get some talent back in the sign-and-trade deal.

[air gordon]

trading pippen for fair value wasn't going to happen. 2 things:

-pippen was a free agent. teams wouldn't trade for him if they could just simply sign him

-krause was the worst GM to deal with concerning trades and negotiating contracts. he would have just make things worse

[Andrew]

Point taken. I guess it would depend on Pip's insistence on a big contract (which would make a sign and trade pretty much the only option). As for Krause, that's a point I wholeheartedly agree with. I was amazed at some of the things I read in The Jordan Rules (demanding draft picks in exchange for nothing, treating players like pieces of meat, etc).

[- Ace -]

Actually the lakers offered Jones and Campbell for Pippen but Krause rejected the offer.

[air gordon]

went to the UC this past saturday to see the game against the lakers. and now that i saw tv broadcast (and to see if my adulterer sign caught the tv camera before it was taken away from me ), i figure i'll make some comments/observations:

lakers/bulls games at the UC normally make for good ones, despite what the statuses are for either team. i feel very fortunate to attend a game and see 7 future hall of famers...

shaq is a monster in person. other then eddy curry, i think every other bull disappeared when they stood behind him. for some strange reason, the bulls did their usual respectable job on him and made him irrelevant in the 4th quarter.

i don't know if it was the young legs of hinrich and chandler matching up with them, but GP and Malone looked very old and slow- malone in particular. he just seems like a bruiser out there- just relying on his body and the benefit of the officiating to get the job done. i was surprised to see he had an impressive stat line. and hinrich, despite having a crappy shooting nite, was able to penetrate the lane relatively easy on GP

i could see why phil jackson is frustarted with bryant. crawford on a few occasions broke bryant off the dribble, causing the crowd to 'woo'. immediately on the following lakers posessions, guess who is taking the shot on an isolation. i must have heard phil jackson negatively yell 'kobe' at least 5 times when LA was offense. #8 though did show why he is one of the game's best closers. there sure was a lot cheering when he hit those big shots.

anyway, i was glad to catch this game. normally the bulls don't play this intense and hard for 48 minutes. they stood toe to toe with the lakers but couldn't pull out the win. it's just too bad they can't bring this type of efforts in the other 81 games.... again i feel lucky to see a game where 7 future hall of famers were present

[Andrew]

it's just too bad they can't bring this type of efforts in the other 81 games

If only we had a dollar for every time we've said that since the breakup of the championship team.

Thanks for the recap. I'm slightly jealous though - I wish I could see the Bulls (well, any team but preferably the Bulls) play live.

[Stevan]

went to the UC this past saturday to see the game against the lakers. and now that i saw tv broadcast (and to see if my adulterer sign caught the tv camera before it was taken away from me )

hahaha!! Did it make it to TV? Classic...

[air gordon]

went to the UC this past saturday to see the game against the lakers. and now that i saw tv broadcast (and to see if my adulterer sign caught the tv camera before it was taken away from me )

hahaha!! Did it make it to TV? Classic...

it didn't get TV time like those signs that used to say:
aNother Bulls Championship

but coming out of a tv timeout in the first half, when the camera zooms in from a view of the total arena, you could see it

maybe if i ever get around to purchasing a web cam, i'll post the shot

[Jackal]

it didn't get TV time like those signs that used to say:
aNother Bulls Championship

Probably because it won't be happening any time soon.

*shrug* Hating, am I right? No, just annoying a fellow member.

[magius]

if it were me, i wouldnt build around curry because curry is at most a 20 and 10 player and thats pushing it. i'd build around chandler, because chandler has mega potential. the easiest way to win a championship is to build around a 7 footer. mj and scottie were an anamoly -- heck, lets get it straight, they were freaks. the chances of winning with a centre as your franchise player is higher than your chances with a guard. i know curry is somewhat of a pf/centre hybrid and i would stick with him if he showed greatness, but he doesnt show greatness -- he shows potential of being a real good player, maybe a shawn kemp.

SO if it were me, i'd keep chandler and build around him and let him know right here and now that he is my guy. show him the confidence and give him the ball and watch him grow. instead they seem to be doing it more with curry which i think is a mistake. if they want to do it with a curry-like player than they should've kept brand.

the most important thing other than chandler is the management and the coaching -- look at memphis, look at utah. your coach and his unerring system is more important than everything other than your franchise player. thats why a phil jackson or a popovich or a sloan or a hubie works -- they stick with their system. players know what they have to do and where they have to go because it becomes routine, it is programmed into their way of playing. all this team or any team needs is a clear cut system as a foundation and success will grow from their.

[J-Smoove]

One thing's fa sure... MAD POSTS!!

Now that that's outa the way, I'd like to comment on Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. I love Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry. I think they've got the most potential to create a nasty PF/C combo in the next 4 years (if not less). Sadly, injuries have killed teams like the Bulls. Tyson Chandler has missed most of this season with screwed up health issues, while Curry is in-n-out on some occasions (but pretty healthy for a C who pounds down low). The Bulls need 70+ games from both of them each season to have a playoff chance...

I don't understand all this Crawford trade talks. I think Crawford can be a Tiny Archibald like player (20ppg 10apg -ish). I think they should keep him around.

I like the EJ talk though (I love eddie.. my fave player) and would think he would be a great addition to this team. He's got the elder-leadership this team needs and got a perimeter game.

And the Bulls BADLY need an improvement from the SFs. I understand why Jerome Williams is their startng SF over players like Chris Jeffries and E-Rob (because he plays better defense than both of them) but he has NO perimeter game whatsoever. He can barely shoot the ball and is just a PF with good speed. However, the Bulls would benefit from the NBA draft in '04 (if they choose to) and draft Emeka Okafur 1st and try and get Josh Smith (and draft rights/vets). I think Josh Smith could really play the 3 terrifically in the Bulls organization (because they NEED a player like him). However, Emeka Okafur is a pretty tough decision to give up on. Possibly a J-Crawford, Jerome Williams and a draft picks for the team that ends up with Josh Smith? (I know that's pretty unreasonable to have a team with 2 of the top 5 draft picks, but the Bulls did it in '02 draft).

Assuming they don't get Josh Smith... Here's my hopeful predictions:

C-Curry
PF- Chandler
SF- (Possible FA)
SG- (Possible FA)
PG- J-Craw (assuming they get a legitmate SG)/Kirk Hinrich (if J-Craw HAS to play their SG)

If they DO get the great players I'm hoping for it'll be this:

C-Curry
PF-Chandler
SF-Josh Smith
SG-Eddie Jones(age... egh, they'll get him for a year or two and let him mentor the young SGs but until then, he's got ability to score)
PG- J-Craw (hey, i'm hoping he'll stay around)

Honorable bench mentions-
Emeka Okafur
Hinrich
E-Rob
Marcus Fizer(i really don't like him...but he's got offense but just ANOTHER low post player. still worth keeping around or shopped)

[DipSetVC]

Sign Hinrich long term or better yet, trade him to the Raptors! PLEEASE

[fgrep15]

Man Crawford over Hinrich?? I don't think so, that really not going to happen.

[Andrew]

Hinrich has played well pretty consistently since being given the starting job and starter's minutes, while Crawford remains a little too inconsistent. I'd keep Hinrich as the starting point guard, leaving Crawford to play shooting guard or dealing him for a more suitable player if possible.

[J-Smoove]

I hate Paxson's way of "dismembering" the team. If they're going to do that, at least dump everyone AT ONCE (a la Isiah Thomas). Paxson's terrible trade of Rose for two pieces of crap (sorry, i just don't like junkyard as a SF and AD as part of our startin lineup).

I think getting Shane Battier on this team. Defense with offensive minded front court (however, Chandler has a more defensive mind than offense. o yeah, so is battier).

Possibly, the Bulls could sign Hedo Turkoglu. He's got an offensive mind. Good passing ability, smart player. Regaining his confidence after that dreadful season with Sacro, he's been playing pretty damn well as their starting 2-guard. He's got good height and got some goods. Defensively, he's not bad, but not terrific enough to be a stopper. If you ask me, 6'10" SG/SF aint that bad.

(like most of you) Building on the two big men Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler would be the best thing in their organization. Keeping Kirk Hinrich isn't such a bad idea.. consistency is there. So if I could choose a reasonable starting lineup (with undisclosed trades) it'd be this:

C-Curry
PF-Chandler
SF-Shane Battier
SG-Hedo Turkoglu
PG-Hinrich

Honorable mention bench- Eddie Jones, Emeka Okafur, (egh, wtf) Josh Smith, Marcus Fizer

Shane and Hedo can switch roles defensively (and offensively, if needed) while Hinrich runs the floor. Curry gets the offense down, grabs 7+boards, a block or two a night and that's his fair part. Tyson can get you 15points, 10+boards, 2-3blocks a night (your Mr. Defensive big man).

[EGarrett]

Just a note...Okafor is no raw high schooler...he will be starting next year if the Bulls get him. He's better than both Curry and Chandler and will probably average around 16 points and 11 boards with 2 blocks.

[J-Smoove]

Just a note...Okafor is no raw high schooler...he will be starting next year if the Bulls get him. He's better than both Curry and Chandler and will probably average around 16 points and 11 boards with 2 blocks.

Obviously not... but Tyson and Eddy Curry have both matured out of that status. They've got more seasoning than Okafur (obviously) and experience. He'll learn under their wings... eventually Chandler will be dealt and give Okafur the starting position (TO THE LAKERS!! YEAH!!)

[air gordon]

Just a note...Okafor is no raw high schooler...

i agree 100% here. earlier i was down this guy but after watching some more uconn games, this guy has impressed me. okafor is much more fundamentally schooled then curry & chandler, due to playing in college, for a great college coach & program no less.

Tyson and Eddy Curry have both matured out of that status. They've got more seasoning than Okafur (obviously) and experience.

the twin towers are in their 3rd year in the nba yet curry is still having a hard time on grasping simple concepts as help defense and rebounding... chandler has yet to develop a move on offense other then they alley oop dunk.

if the bulls were lucky enough to be in the position to get okafor and his back problems are not an issue, the bulls will pick him and one of the 3C's are good as gone. or at least let chandler and okafor battle it out for a year.

[Jackal]

the twin towers

Please don't insult Tim Duncan & David Robinson.

[air gordon]

there's no flame war intended by this, i just wanted to put this out here after reading several replies made in response to my own posts by a certain user. and i guess you can attribute this to me spraining my ankle, making me a little frustrated for being homebound...

I find your comments insulting, attacking and without any reason.

You are a nasty and rude little kid, you are only making trouble, not conversation.

I really wish I hadn't responed to you, I told myself I wouldn't, but you are exactly what you want to be, a joker, a jerk and a toublemaker.

You are so proud of your little attitude.

Try to be decent, your are really not doing anything other making personal attacks on someone who you have a problem with.

I really do not want to bicker, insult and carry on like this.

anyway, i'd also like to see turkoglu and battier on the bulls, i just don't know how realistic it is to think we can pry them away from the spurs and grizz

[Jackal]

Funny you didnt post the rest of it. It was a misunderstanding which was resolved, funny how you failed to mention that, eh?

Like I said, don't insult Robinson & Duncan by calling Curry & Chandler the twin towers. Seriously, where is that puking emoticon?

[air gordon]

whether this other situation was resolved or not, the words still hold true. this no longer is worth discussing and i will not further comment on this

Like I said, don't insult Robinson & Duncan by calling Curry & Chandler the twin towers.

this is what i'm talking about with your attitude. clearly you are nitpicking here, unless you are completely naive.

it's a fact that the associated press and other media outlets have long referred to chandler and curry as twin towers because of their height, not in reference to duncan and robinson. it is a very common practice for PF/C combo's that are both tall, whether it be in nba, college, nbdl, high school, wherever... to be called twin towers

[Jackal]

Actually, they are reffered to as the Mini Twin Towers...because compared to the original Twin Towers, minsicule is what they are. How am I nitpicking? Isn't this what you're so great at? You said something in a post, I disagree, beg to differ and it's nitpicking? Hooray for a forum.