Kareem: Minimum age should be 21

[BrotherJRB]

People forget when Lebron, Garnett and Kobe were in there 1st, 2nd and 3rd years they were not superstars!!!! They were simply above average players.

I think the league would be better off if there were a 21 year old age limit. Or a real minor league system.

[NovU]

Like NovU said, and this is the first time I agree on what he says

Hip hop & Dirk loving German fan and peace loving Wade Canadian fan. We do have our differences.

[Andrew]

People forget when Lebron, Garnett and Kobe were in there 1st, 2nd and 3rd years they were not superstars!!!! They were simply above average players.

I think the league would be better off if there were a 21 year old age limit. Or a real minor league system.

In his second season, LeBron averaged 27, 7 and 7. I'd say that qualifies as a superstar. Garnett's numbers weren't quite as gaudy until his third or fourth season, but he posted 17-8-3 in his second season along with a couple of blocks and a steal per game. Kobe's stats were even less gaudy but he was playing fewer minutes off the bench compared to LeBron and KG, with a noticeable increase one he became a regular starter playing 38 minutes per game. To say they were "simply above average players" is selling them a bit short, but even if that's as much credit as we can give them through their first couple of seasons, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's a long way from being a flop and it certainly hasn't hurt their career, or the league.

And how is the D-League not a real minor league system?

[scubilete]

Kobe, LeBron, Garnett, T-Mac, Jermaine & Durant were that good, that's why they were drafted in the 1st rd, but calculations or the actual pre-draft workouts went all wrong somehow in 2001 with Kwame, Curry & Chandler, I guess they cheated, lol.

back to the D-League thing, why is not that good, you just can't grab the best player out there to help out your team, teams are associated to NBA franchises so they're using that as a Class A in MLB. Also, D-League is not about developing better players that will make the NBA at some point, 75% of those players will be 35 and never be in the NBA, not that I don't believe in them, it's that they're getting paid and that's what they care, they'll never be good enough or won't get a chance cause of their bad luck to be part of a particular team.

[Andrew]

There was an obsession with high schoolers and "potential" for a while there that saw teams place too much stock in players that, as Hubie Brown would so often trumpet, had "tremendous upside". I'd suggest a lack of quality, legit big men also saw teams a bit too desperate to take a chance on players like Kwame, Curry and Chandler. And yes, players like Kobe, T-Mac and O'Neal were giving them false hope.

I see your point about the D-League, but I have to believe it's better than having a young player who can't quite crack the rotation sitting on the bench. It gives them an opportunity to play in a professional environment, in a situation where they can be called up to the NBA by a team that's assigned them there in the first place or if they're not signed to an NBA team, whoever may be interested in bringing them on board.

[adv1s5]

I think Kareem wants better people, not better players. 19 is a little young to be handling so much money and responsibility.

Agree on the D-league requirement. Good for the players, good for the league.

[Andrew]

19 is a little young to be handling so much money and responsibility.

That isn't necessarily untrue, but it's just as broad a statement as saying they don't have the skill level or polish on their game. There are going to be people who are mature for their ages, or mature enough to handle it. Foolishness and indeed immaturity are not attributes exclusive to young people.

[adv1s5]

True. Still, I can see why Kareem would want the minimum age to raise a few years to limit the amount of "precocious kids from high school", although this probably wouldn't completely remedy the problem.

[Andrew]

Well, high schoolers are no longer an issue with a minimum age of 19. I just think raising it to 21 is overkill, though some players obviously should be more strongly advised to stay another year in college. With an age limit already in place, that's what I favour: advice and encouragement over enforcing an even higher age restriction. And of course, some players are never going to "get it", no matter how long they stay in college.

[NovU]

I think even Kwame was benefitted in some ways: being drafted first overall which was an honor, getting paid more, hype of being drafted first giving him bigger contracts, more years in the league. Only negative for him is the way people judge him. Other than that, I don't think he'd have any regret skipping the college. Who knows what would have happened during those college years. One accident or a little shitty thing goes wrong, you might not even end up getting a chance to play in the NBA. A lot can happen in 2 years and I'd see that as a risk as well, especially for players who can play with the pros right away.

People go to college to get a better job, so my question is why go to college to get a job in the NBA, when you don't have to. It should be a decision players should be able to make, imo.

Major Leaguers, you don't see them going to college either.

Anyways, Kareem's comment on Lebron feels nothing more than a cheap shot at him, seeing Lebron struggling against the Celtics. He adapted to NBA level of basketball quicker than anybody, and became a MVP at such young age. It seems to me, skipping the college worked out really good for him, since he obviously had more youth and time to adapt and achieve things that others normally can't.

[koberulz]

Well, high schoolers are no longer an issue with a minimum age of 19. I just think raising it to 21 is overkill, though some players obviously should be more strongly advised to stay another year in college. With an age limit already in place, that's what I favour: advice and encouragement over enforcing an even higher age restriction. And of course, some players are never going to "get it", no matter how long they stay in college.

Exactly. I wrote about that sort of thing here after the new cigarette tax passed here - these days there's far to much "DON'T DO THIS", and not enough "Here's why I think doing this might be a bad idea," which doesn't actually solve the problem. People are too busy banning things, throwing age limits around, and whatnot, to actually take the time to educate anyone.

[scubilete]

People go to college to get a better job, so my question is why go to college to get a job in the NBA, when you don't have to. It should be a decision players should be able to make, imo.
Major Leaguers, you don't see them going to college either.

, If it was on your call, every highschool should try the NBA instead of going to College, no college is needed for the NBA, it doesn't matter how good or bad you are, get to the NBA and if you don't make it at least you have the D-League. "who needs college?", not Kwame, he's getting 2-3 millions when probably he could have become a Doctor so he didn't have to depend on Basketball after he turns 35. Not, now he'll play til 46, then retire after all he had a good career.

Also, Major Leaguers go to college, but of course I guess you're talking about hispanics.

[NovU]

You are missing the point. How many gifted kids do you think are there in high school? Those that are great enough to get called from NBA. You are saying like every high school ballers can drafted by NBA over college kids.

[scubilete]

You are missing the point. How many gifted kids do you think are there in high school? Those that are great enough to get called from NBA. You are saying like every high school ballers can drafted by NBA over college kids.

You said they should be the ones deciding to make the jump to the NBA, If you tell them to decide between going to college or getting millions for shooting a ball, even worse if you tell them they don't need education to get millions in the NBA, they won't mind if they're good enough, they'll try the easiest way to get millions, that's a human nature. And if you tell them all they need to do is shoot the ball and prove they're better than college players, they'll do it for that kind of money too.

[NovU]

What's your point? I'm not claiming college is bad but how does it really help us the fans, or talented young players.

I was implying that if you are good enough for the NBA at young age, there shouldn't be a bar that's stopping them. NBA's basically losing quality players that fans deserve watching. Also you gotta know College isn't for everybody, and so isn't the NBA. What makes NBAers so special that they deserve college education while other sports have no such restrictions? In the end, isn't being a basketball player a job just like our 18 years old being a marine at Afghanistan? While those marines don't need college education, and NBAers need it? That alone is controversial. 1 year in college, what's it going to do for NBAer? Really. How much of help is it going to do them? No matter how much education you get, Artest will be Artest even though he has done college.

More importantly, since when college education became mandatory and not a choice. Later in the NBA years if the kid feels the needs of education, then they can always go back to a school. In fact, that happens with ordinary folks with ordinary live. Many just ignore college then go back to it when they feel the needs. As for me, I've done the same, and now I am back to school at older age.

[scubilete]

Which are the players the NBA is losing that fans deserve watching? Now you're talking like if they go to college the NBA just lost them.

What makes NBAers so special that they deserve college education while other sports have no such restrictions?

But NBA doesn't have such restriction, Shawn Kemp came out of HS, Moses Malone played in the ABA without going to college, Durant didn't go to college, I don't see any restriction.

isn't being a basketball player a job just like our 18 years old being a marine at Afghanistan?

It's not. And you get educated in the Armed Forces for your information or you think they just throw them to the middle to get killed?, lol

That alone is controversial. 1 year in college, what's it going to do for NBAer? Really. How much of help is it going to do them? No matter how much education you get, Artest will be Artest even though he has done college.

That's why I mentioned I've seen some college guys do worse than High Schoolers, but just because some did, doesn't mean you should avoid college. Don't go to Alabama to study cause Sprewell tried to kill his coach with his own hands and he came out of there, that's not the way you're supposed to think. If you consider Basketball players don't need education, I'll let you have your opinion, seriously, I'm not into arguments like years ago, all to make you understand college will make you a better person in life. You do have a right to mention Artest, Marbury, Iverson as 1-2 years college guys but as well you can mention Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jabbar, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, who took some time to spend 4 years and become the best of the best and were never questioned about misbehaving, dealing with drugs, but let's still question what can education do for NBAers?

[benji]

Durant didn't go to college

He was one-and-done at Texas.

but as well you can mention Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Jabbar, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, who took some time to spend 4 years

Jordan - 3 years in college.
Magic - 2 years in college.
Malone - 3 years in college.
Bird - 3 years playing in college. (But did attend a college for four years.)

If Jabbar was born a decade later, he might not have even bothered to attend college. He certainly wouldn't have if he was born two decades later.

college will make you a better person in life

"who needs college?", not Kwame, he's getting 2-3 millions when probably he could have become a Doctor so he didn't have to depend on Basketball after he turns 35. Not, now he'll play til 46, then retire after all he had a good career.

Somehow I don't see Kwame Brown as someone who could have achieved at a high enough level in college and then medical school over 12 years to become a doctor at age 30. Or someone who will playing in the NBA at age 46. (Or having had a good career.)

Hell, Kevin Garnett didn't have the grades or scores to attend college even with his ungodly basketball skills. (And he's not the only HS to NBA player who faced a similar situation. Some of the long shot high school players were entering the draft because of that reason.)

[scubilete]

Benji, I'm happy to see you too, You can keep it up now buddy.

[NovU]

college will make you a better person in life.

Was this the point you were trying to make?

But NBA doesn't have such restriction, Shawn Kemp came out of HS, Moses Malone played in the ABA without going to college, Durant didn't go to college, I don't see any restriction.

Read the title plus the article.

This discussion is 5 years old. Perhaps, we got carried on too far, overpaying attentions to Kareem's comment which probably didn't mean much from his part.

[koberulz]

But NBA doesn't have such restriction, Shawn Kemp came out of HS, Moses Malone played in the ABA without going to college, Durant didn't go to college, I don't see any restriction.

They introduced a minimum age of 19 in 2006. Do you do any sort of research at all?

isn't being a basketball player a job just like our 18 years old being a marine at Afghanistan?

It's not.

How is it different? In any way that's not easier for an 18 year old to cope with, at least.

And you get educated in the Armed Forces for your information or you think they just throw them to the middle to get killed?, lol

True. I love the guys in the NBA who sit on the end of the bench in the nice suits for purely aesthetic purposes.

Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson...were never questioned about misbehaving

If you don't count gambling and having HIV. But other than that, sure. Apart from the fact that they didn't spend four years in college either.

[Andrew]

If Jabbar was born a decade later, he might not have even bothered to attend college. He certainly wouldn't have if he was born two decades later.

Exactly. It seems to me that Kareem got a little carried away trumpeting the "things were better in my day" sentiment.

[Riot]

I'm on the fence about this one but I am leaning towards agreeing with the 21 year old age limit. For every Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Kevin Garnett and so on there are a dozen Darius Miles, Ndudi Ebi's and Robert Swift's. When you are 18 years old and you are facing the potential of going to the NBA you have lots of people around you pushing even though it may not be in your best interest. How many times have we seen a player enter the draft out of high school and get drafted near the end of the first round or even the second? There is no reason why they shouldn't have gone to college and matured and improved their game while also attending college courses. We obviously know their heart and soul will be in basketball but just opening their doors to a higher education could make them realize that basketball is not their only option. It would definitely improve the quality of play in the NBA and improve the talent level in the NCAA. The NBA will be there waiting for them whether they are 19 or 21 but by forcing them to go to college it gives them an opportunity to better themselves on the court and in the classroom which in the end is better for both the NBA and the players.

I understand if the player thinks he is ready for the NBA and he isn't then it is his fault but a lot of times he will have people around him pushing him to make an irrational decision because they see $$$ signs. They aren't looking out for his best interests and it's a shame. They trick them into thinking they are ready for the NBA when they aren't.

[benji]

We do, as I mentioned, have to account that many of the players who made the high school jump would have bombed out of college for academic reasons. Miles was one of those, Ebi and Swift probably would've never made the league if they hadn't taken the chance as four years of college would have just proved they couldn't play only without the millions of dollars.

It is important to note we live in an era where people think college is a right, and that college is for everyone. Unfortunately, it is not, and the effort to make it so only reduces the importance of college. There are too many people in college who shouldn't be there WITHOUT any kind of athletic reasoning, adding in people who have no interest in college and are only doing so because the NBA doesn't let them in is beyond absurd. The only reason anyone cares about college is because we've wasted billions diluting the value of a college education to make it high school part two but with legal drinking.

The only thing any kind of age limit will do is send players to Europe as Brandon Jennings did. One-and-done is basically just as meaningless since a player, say a Derrick Rose, can fake their way through a year and be long past the school by the time anyone cares about the violations. (And the coach moving to another team, avoiding any sanctions.) You expand that limit, they'll all go and play in Europe or elsewhere.

The only people who benefit from an age limit are the corrupt college programs that feed off of ineligible players (if anyone cared to properly check) and the people irrationally tied to support a school.

Benji, I'm happy to see you too, You can keep it up now buddy.

I take this as an admission that your prior posts were just gibberish.

[hova-]

Benji's just right. Why should the league be a league of high-educated guys and expel all those guys who do not have what it takes to attend college. Sports should not be about your education. Even if you do not pass your high school edudaction (don't know if this is possible), you should have the chance to play in the best league if you can keep up with the pros.

[NovU]

I am on the same page with benji, as you can see from my posts above. Why should we as a society send those who aren't really interested in education to the college while the others are actually there to study and make something out of it. Real students there actually study hard to get good grades and pursue their career with what they learn from college, and isn't that the purpose of post education, not just being there to play basketball while studying is secondary task for them.